is ark so called pvp showing that average human is sad psycho

[SmokeyB]

3 minutes ago, cetech said:

 

 

Agreed I like to give to bobs and help anyway I can

 

Throw days of giving metal tools to beach bobs died with server transfers,  yeah before the lvl 32 bob was no threat,  he needed months to build up and could only do it on your server,  but now the beach bobs are lvl 100s from different servers,  you don't know if they have an alpha Base somewhere and more stuff than you already.  Plus you don't know if they will KOS or not.  Plus if you be nice to them maybe they bring a huge metal Base from their other server and try to move in. You just can't take all of arks refugees onto your server,  it's more trouble than its worth. 

[Jaric]

On 11/14/2017 at 9:26 PM, IamTANK said:

attacking a empty base isnt pvp...... its coward vs empty base

Regardless, that's how PvP works in Ark so if that's not your particular brand of vodka I'd suggest come hang out with me on an PvE server.

 

If you're looking to frag people, battlefront seems more appropriate

[Olivar]

Just now, Jaric said:

Regardless, that's how PvP works in Ark so if that's not your particular brand of vodka I'd suggest come hang out with me on an PvE server.

 

If you're looking to frag people, battlefront seems more appropriate

I'm sorry you're not allowed to shoot people in Battlefront.
You first need to buy the following things:

• Character: 4,99
• Gun, 1,99
• Bullets, 0.01 / piece
• Multiplayer pass : 25

[Obbu]

I'm definitely part of the camp that enjoys pvp but despises raiding, which is a shame: as there's really nothing to facilitate competitive pvp in ark that doesnt quickly devolve into nuking bases while people sleep.

If bases were instanced it could prevent the need for raiding to control over-expansion, and have the majority of people's dino farms inside an instance where they wouldn't impact performance of other players, and remove the need for dino caps - you just cap the number of dinos a person can take out of their base.

So many of the biggest issues in ark would be solved by stopping trying to keep it 100% open world. It could simultaneously control raiding, dino caps, kiting, accidental turret death, overexpansion and spawn blocking just by putting it behind a tribe-only instance gate. And all you lose is the ability to show off how many brontos you have to people who fly past.

Then you could designate the rest of the world as no-build open pvp and foster a competitive and somewhat less toxic pvp environment where people compete over resources in the wild, instead of focusing around destroying stuff in minutes it took months to build.

You could even regulate dino-aggression towards bases in a more controlled fashion by pathing them into the instances in desired quantities.

[ForzaProiettile]

11 hours ago, Dylan1602 said:

I kill every single beach bob I see without a second thought for one good reason. I am the alpha of my server and I was helping people, giving them some tools we didn't use. Some flak we didn't use and offering them protection. So I was the nice guy that helped and let people build on the condition that you're not too close to us. 

However this all changed when I was out doing a metal run with a tribemate. I get the dreaded red text of my 255 Megalodon being killed by level 35 beach bob (Can't remember the name). This player built up enough arrows and a crossbow to sit just outside the water by our water pen and snipe my megalodon. I'm guessing he moved onto my Basilosaurus after which had 35k health and an ascendant saddle so he was never going to be able to kill. I flew back and got straight on my wyvern and killed every single person on that beach. Foundation wiped this beach bob and despawned all of their stuff. 

I was also giving some stuff to a different person whilst on my Pteranodon when he gets his tribemate to sneak up behind me and bola my bird then bola me. Then killing me and my Pteranodon. 

Betrayal is a bitter pill to swallow. Therefore I am making sure it never happens again to me because you get all of these people screaming for help but there is no doubt if they had a foothold in an alpha tribe or some power of their own, they would 100% be wiping every noob and backstabbing alliances/trust. My trust has been betrayed so you best know if you are not my ally or we are not speaking or trading. I will hit you just so you can't hit me. 

You are what I call the classic alpha tribe member. Little more then a glorified farmer who is absolutely hopeless in PVP except in mass numbers. Its funny that two incident's you have mentioned are things I have done multiple times to alpha tribes. Complacency always comes back to bite.

[ForzaProiettile]

8 hours ago, Obbu said:

I'm definitely part of the camp that enjoys pvp but despises raiding, which is a shame: as there's really nothing to facilitate competitive pvp in ark that doesnt quickly devolve into nuking bases while people sleep.

If bases were instanced it could prevent the need for raiding to control over-expansion, and have the majority of people's dino farms inside an instance where they wouldn't impact performance of other players, and remove the need for dino caps - you just cap the number of dinos a person can take out of their base.

So many of the biggest issues in ark would be solved by stopping trying to keep it 100% open world. It could simultaneously control raiding, dino caps, kiting, accidental turret death, overexpansion and spawn blocking just by putting it behind a tribe-only instance gate. And all you lose is the ability to show off how many brontos you have to people who fly past.

Then you could designate the rest of the world as no-build open pvp and foster a competitive and somewhat less toxic pvp environment where people compete over resources in the wild, instead of focusing around destroying stuff in minutes it took months to build.

You could even regulate dino-aggression towards bases in a more controlled fashion by pathing them into the instances in desired quantities.

The beauty of ARK is not the dinos buts its lawless open world PVP. To take that away would ruin the game. The less rules and silly regulations in an open world sandbox game the better it is. 

As to your first point the way we do PVP is we actively seek out online players and aim to give them a rough time. You squeeze them a bit see if they react, if not you break their arm. if that still doesn't make them cry out in chat for help you break their legs then you beginning chopping off their limbs. They will crack eventually and the fun begins as you have a go at their would be saviours.

 

[LittleMickey]

The ones who usually pick on the low lvls do so because they cant fight those at there own level its almost like they have to make up for being sucky. Seen some alpha tribes who help and protect the low lvls because they understand personally I think the ones who go after low lvls knowing full well they have nothing are just plain bullies and people who are making up who have been beaten as a kid and stuck on a locker in highschool , its the internet anyone can be a keyboard commando but there are some amazing alpha tribes out there.

[ForzaProiettile]

6 minutes ago, LittleMickey said:

The ones who usually pick on the low lvls do so because they cant fight those at there own level its almost like they have to make up for being sucky. Seen some alpha tribes who help and protect the low lvls because they understand personally I think the ones who go after low lvls knowing full well they have nothing are just plain bullies and people who are making up who have been beaten as a kid and stuck on a locker in highschool , its the internet anyone can be a keyboard commando but there are some amazing alpha tribes out there.

PVP is PVP regardless if its a guy in a thatch hut or someone living in a TEK base.  The aim of PVP is to slaughter other players and murder their dinos to become the dominant tribe.

[Obbu]

2 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

The beauty of ARK is not the dinos buts its lawless open world PVP. To take that away would ruin the game. The less rules and silly regulations in an open world sandbox game the better it is. 

As to your first point the way we do PVP is we actively seek out online players and aim to give them a rough time. You squeeze them a bit see if they react, if not you break their arm. if that still doesn't make them cry out in chat for help you break their legs then you beginning chopping off their limbs. They will crack eventually and the fun begins as you have a go at their would be saviours.

 

I understand that this is pretty much common practice, however I disagree that it's the ideal way to do it.

Most PvP games that I play and enjoy are generally focused around fighting other players, rather than something that resembles ARK's raiding (which is something more akin to asymmetric tower defense in nature - with an absurdly long setup time, but very short destruction time)

There are two types of PvP in ARK: Player vs Player and Player vs Base.

The "lawless open world PvP" that you describe is sadly the least common by a pretty large margin. I actually really enjoy open world pvp.

The problem that players encounter is that they actually feel discouraged from engaging in actual pvp combat by the existence of raiding.

In a system where raiding exists as a final nuclear solution, you actually end up in a cold war scenario where people are reluctant to engage in PvP due to it being seen as such an immensely hostile and antisocial act. Conversely, systems that disallow the nuclear solution by default encourage a lot more skirmishing, where the focus becomes not so much on resolving the conflict via the annihilation of the opposing tribe, but on competition over resource/reward in the wild.

Whether it's simple metal nodes or deep desert loot crates, those things deserve to be fought over. But in the current state of the game, you just end up with an alpha tribe having a house built next to the crates threatening to wipe anyone off the server if they see anyone else looting them.

That isn't competition, it's monopoly with one player who refuses to stop playing after they've won, and everyone else has gone home.

In contrast:

When you are just starting out on the Island, the low-level skirmishes that you experience on metal mountain fighting are genuinely enjoyable, but as you and your opponents progress, it morphs into the offline raiding-focused dynamic, and the fun goes out the door. The moment the focus is on raiding rather than skirmishing, it all becomes a bit lacking.

My suggestion regarding instancing bases would encourage more open world PvP, as it would prevent you from building right on top of resources and require you to journey to them to collect. It would also prevent you from worrying about the fear of being raided, meaning that you can enjoy PvP without worrying about having your tribe effectively deleted overnight.

What it really comes down to is that I'd like to see a system involving more pvp and less raiding.

Instancing bases might sound artificial, but if the end goal is to keep more people on the server concurrently, and to create a system that controls overexpansion/overpopulation without needing raiding to do so, there's really very little downside.

Just to be clear:

I'm totally fine with raiding-pvp existing as an option for some servers, and I'm not arguing for it to be removed entirely from the game.

I just wish there was a solid pvp option that didn't have/require raiding to make it work. I'd love for a 3rd official game mode "competitive pvp" where bases were instanced, and the focus was on open world skirmishing and fighting for resources/loot.

[Mwal]

3 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

PVP is PVP regardless if its a guy in a thatch hut or someone living in a TEK base.  The aim of PVP is to slaughter other players and murder their dinos to become the dominant tribe.

I disagree I believe the developers left it open to players interpretation. The definition of player vs. player is the mindless slaughter of other players but there is really no reward in slaughtering low levels people just starting out where as in most games considered pvp you are rewarded for any kill. This and the tribe system is why I believe the developers intended more for cooperation but allowed also allowed the aspect of killing one another. 

[Obbu]

At the end of the day, pvp can mean fighting or raiding: if the rulesets are left open, both will happen. The problem occurs when one detracts from the other.

In my opinion, raiding worsens both regular pvp aspects (ie open world skirmishing) as it makes people afraid to incur raids and discourages them from skirmishing, and pve aspects (nuking bases and dinos while you sleep ruins your progression).

If there were a second official PvP ruleset that operated alongside the current raiding one, and this one functioned without raiding, I'd eat that up in a heartbeat.

[Sh4rk]

Sometimes big tribes take a "wipe anything that moves" approach to properly secure and lock down their server until they are ready to allow people to build, if they even choose to do so. PvP is largely a politics game, but good diplomacy is a far cry from a guarantee that you won't raided anyway.

While the actions of people in these kinds of games, or any pvp game, does reflect on human nature at its core, it still only reflects on the actions any random person would take on another random person without the human element involved. When there is no reason to have remorse, no reason to have empathy (it is just a game after all), people will generally do bad things. This is why civilized people don't walk around the streets IRL and shoot eachother for their clothes and money, but will be more than happy to mercilessly troll you in an online pvp game.

[Dylan1602]

12 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

You are what I call the classic alpha tribe member. Little more then a glorified farmer who is absolutely hopeless in PVP except in mass numbers. Its funny that two incident's you have mentioned are things I have done multiple times to alpha tribes. Complacency always comes back to bite.

You claim I am hopeless in PVP but you have never seen me. I can assure you I would beat you by myself. There you go, if you have also done these multiple times why do you think alpha tribes are aggressively killing people on sight. It is people like you who betray the trust of alphas who help and cause us to attack on sight. You are the origin of the problem, not us.

[ForzaProiettile]

9 hours ago, Dylan1602 said:

You claim I am hopeless in PVP but you have never seen me. I can assure you I would beat you by myself. There you go, if you have also done these multiple times why do you think alpha tribes are aggressively killing people on sight. It is people like you who betray the trust of alphas who help and cause us to attack on sight. You are the origin of the problem, not us.

The thing is though the more you kill the little Bob's on the beach the more they will grow to dislike you. Eventually they will team up be it on that server or another and come back to attack you.  For me I win either way. If you help the Bob's then you make it easy for me to hide among them and do damage. If you kill the Bob's then I can manipulate them into helping me kill you.

[Dylan1602]

1 hour ago, ForzaProiettile said:

The thing is though the more you kill the little Bob's on the beach the more they will grow to dislike you. Eventually they will team up be it on that server or another and come back to attack you.  For me I win either. If you help the Bob's then you make it easy for me to hide among them and do damage. If you kill the Bob's then I can manipulate them into helping me kill you.

You're just helping me show that you are the problem and not us because no matter what we do we are the ones taking the bigger loses no matter what. To be honest even if you all banded together and formed a mid size tribe together, you still have to build up to challenge and whilst you're doing that we're already big so we will wipe you because it is not a alpha dominance thing. It is a personal thing now and I will attack whatever tribe you find yourself in just because you cannot be trusted. Alphas are never alone, there will be many large-medium sized tribes allianced as well so you will have a server manhunt on for you and your tribe because of your backstabbing actions when we tried helping in the past. 

It is very simple, don't betray us and you're fine. Betray us and we will hunt you endlessly and we will not be merciful when it comes to wiping or seeing you out in the open. 

But like you said, if we help you and be the nice guys you betray us and kill our tames, kill us when we're helping you. If we don't help you and wipe you when we see you, we look like the bad people and we get hated. So really it is down to you having a lack of respect in the first place. If you never attacked us when we were helping guess what, we'd still be helping. This is why you will rarely find any alphas who will trust beach bobs because you are sly deceptive and backstabbing.

[Herbapou]

On 2017-11-14 at 8:31 AM, OttoGrunf said:

its hard to find nice alpha tribe. even solo players and small tribes usually kill on site. strong tribes visit other servers and pick easy and weak targets. what is wrong with those people? what is point of raiding some beach bob with your level 300 animal? what is point of wiping beach bobs wooden hut and his 1 parasaur with your c4? shouldnt point of raiding be challenge to take down much stronger enemy? why 95% or ark players are sad people that pray on weak and helpless? does it show how human society is going more and more in pitfall? why everybody look me so strange when i give metal tools and gear to nude beach bobs i come across in ark? i get really depressed when i think that ark players presents current human society in average, do you?

its the same in all games.  PvP = grief and its not about fair fights.  Players will tried to grief if they can, the game needs to enforce fair play by design, if there are holes, players will used them.

[ForzaProiettile]

4 hours ago, Dylan1602 said:

You're just helping me show that you are the problem and not us because no matter what we do we are the ones taking the bigger loses no matter what. To be honest even if you all banded together and formed a mid size tribe together, you still have to build up to challenge and whilst you're doing that we're already big so we will wipe you because it is not a alpha dominance thing. It is a personal thing now and I will attack whatever tribe you find yourself in just because you cannot be trusted. Alphas are never alone, there will be many large-medium sized tribes allianced as well so you will have a server manhunt on for you and your tribe because of your backstabbing actions when we tried helping in the past. 

It is very simple, don't betray us and you're fine. Betray us and we will hunt you endlessly and we will not be merciful when it comes to wiping or seeing you out in the open. 

But like you said, if we help you and be the nice guys you betray us and kill our tames, kill us when we're helping you. If we don't help you and wipe you when we see you, we look like the bad people and we get hated. So really it is down to you having a lack of respect in the first place. If you never attacked us when we were helping guess what, we'd still be helping. This is why you will rarely find any alphas who will trust beach bobs because you are sly deceptive and backstabbing.

The problem for you is you won't know what tribe we are in. More often then not we will infiltrate other tribes and simply use them to farm weapons for ourselves. The tribe itself won't have a clue, as far as it knows we are just a bunch of really fantastic farmers. If we somehow make a mistake and allow you to connect the dots, it's of little concern to us if you wipe that tribe. Like a good virus we will just move onto other hosts.

The point I am making is as the Alpha tribe you can only really pick two paths. Friendly to everyone, or aggressive to everyone. Each comes with their pros and cons and neither will prevent a veteran guerrilla group from taking advantage of which ever path you choose. 

[HalfSlabBacon]

On 11/14/2017 at 8:31 AM, OttoGrunf said:

its hard to find nice alpha tribe. even solo players and small tribes usually kill on site. strong tribes visit other servers and pick easy and weak targets. what is wrong with those people? what is point of raiding some beach bob with your level 300 animal? what is point of wiping beach bobs wooden hut and his 1 parasaur with your c4? shouldnt point of raiding be challenge to take down much stronger enemy? why 95% or ark players are sad people that pray on weak and helpless? does it show how human society is going more and more in pitfall? why everybody look me so strange when i give metal tools and gear to nude beach bobs i come across in ark? i get really depressed when i think that ark players presents current human society in average, do you?

Have you ever noticed that 99% of the most popular games are solely about gruesome violence against other humans?

Ever noticed the same often holds true for movies & television?

What does it say that the majority choose that as the way to spend their free time?

Ark isn't a reflection of societies problems... Every form of media is.

On 11/14/2017 at 8:45 AM, ArkRage said:

I can't imagine what loot a level 10 character in a thatch may possibly have. They can't even open drops at this point, so I doubt they'd have anything worth stealing. 

I don't get that. When people defend crappy stunts like this with "it's pvp." Where is the pvp? All I see is griefing. That's literally all it is. Someone on a wyv, giga or rex who knows they are 100% safe from any form of pvp whatsoever. 

Yes most people have no idea what PVP actually is. Those that do often play PVE with PVP events in persistent world games like Ark.

On 11/14/2017 at 10:58 AM, Olivar said:

I've been playing videogames for good over 25 years now? (yes I'm old)
And all I can say, that as soon as there's anonymisity involved, and people can go against other people, all breaks are off.
There's always people that play by some kind of honor system, and don't attack those that are not worthy opponents, or already kicked down, and for every one of those, you'll have triple the amount of people that will kick you down after being raided to get that last nickle you're carrying.

Always has been like this in online games, and always will be.

Just like IRL.

On 11/14/2017 at 3:12 PM, Midnight_ said:

If you have not - Watch "The Walking Dead".  In the absence of any centralized governance.....people make up their own. Peoples true nature is more freely expressed. You get to know their true self under these conditions better than any other. And many people are just bullies and jerks. Those are the ones that seek most the position of "alpha" and that is why most alphas are garbage. Also the main reason I play PvE. 

Very good example!

On 11/14/2017 at 9:26 PM, IamTANK said:

attacking a empty base isnt pvp...... its coward vs empty base

Nailed it!!!!