OttoGrunf

should player speed be nerfed? its like fighting with flash or nightcrawler

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2 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

As I pointed out before, no, quite the opposite.  A generalized character build gives you zero advantages over other characters.  To excel most players end up specializing fairly early on (after acquiring what they consider the bare necessities early on when they get a lot of bang for their buck).  Afterwards if they want to excel at something they have to specialize hard in that area, but because of that those few % they gain in that area matter a disproportional amount.

It's how these things work.

I take it you are referring to games like WOW or such where you have highly specialized items/weapons that would work with such a build. ARK is very generic you have melee, you have health and you have speed and everything sort of works with everything.

 

I would love to see for instance the 'Melee' stat broken down into more specializations such as categories such as 'Herbivore Slayer/Carnivore Slayer' where you get extra damage depending on which you put points into. Or even broken down further into different generalised categories of dinos such as mammals, flyers so on.

Edited by ForzaProiettile

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2 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

He is most likely exaggerating.

Most bases that fall to players on foot do so to poor layout/poor design specifically blindspots. I've lost count of the number of bases that I've raided that have had in excess of 200 turrets yet failed to pickup on a blindspot or very weak spot which allowed us entry. The simple truth is people get lazy and complacent. They build their base and then a month or two later they have yet to be attacked so they feel safe and neglect their defences.

I'm not exagerating anything.

Try getting raid by CC with 10-15 players full speed, suiciding with rockets. Is it really the builders fault, or simply speeds fault.

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1 minute ago, ilidrael said:

I'm not exagerating anything.

Try getting raid by CC with 10-15 players full speed, suiciding with rockets. Is it really the builders fault, or simply speeds fault.

Either you lack turret volume to kill them fast enough or you have blindspots/weaknesses that let them get close. Server lag can also contribute here.

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Just now, ilidrael said:

I'm not exagerating anything.

Try getting raid by CC with 10-15 players full speed, suiciding with rockets. Is it really the builders fault, or simply speeds fault.

What does cc mean? Or is that a tribe name?

If you have 10-15 players raiding you it is simply a problem of overloading the amount of turrets. We did this just last week when we raided the ice cave on the island. Someone built a few turrets, so we brought more people than there were turrets. Everyone ran and shot off explosives, some way faster than others due to me being the only speed build. I died instantly, as did the next 2 people, but the 3rd made contact and demolished the generator. Movement speed had no part in that raid other than killing me 1st, but it was still the same strategy. 

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2 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I take it you are referring to games like WOW or such where you have highly specialized items/weapons that would work with such a build. ARK is very generic you have melee, you have health and you have speed and everything sort of works with everything.

 

I would love to see for instance the 'Melee' stat broken down into more specializations such as categories such as 'Herbivore Slayer/Carnivore Slayer' where you get extra damage depending on which you put points into. Or even broken down further into different generalised categories of dinos such as mammals, flyers so on.

No, WOW isn't really... my cup of tea.  I'd elaborate but I'd just end up sounding like a huge jerk... and I have many friends that consider WOW to be challenging.  I'd rather not offend them.

We're on sort of the same line of thought though.  I added this edit to my last post, but I don't think you saw it.

Edit:  Just to be clear, I don't think it would be very practical with ARKs current game design.  The way levels and stats are laid out would make a system of diminishing returns an awkward fit without redesigning a lot of very basic things.

In other words, it's probably not worth the effort to do that much of a redesign.

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2 minutes ago, MandaBear said:

What does cc mean? Or is that a tribe name?

If you have 10-15 players raiding you it is simply a problem of overloading the amount of turrets. We did this just last week when we raided the ice cave on the island. Someone built a few turrets, so we brought more people than there were turrets. Everyone ran and shot off explosives, some way faster than others due to me being the only speed build. I died instantly, as did the next 2 people, but the 3rd made contact and demolished the generator. Movement speed had no part in that raid other than killing me 1st, but it was still the same strategy. 

Well movement speed is the main way to raid any cave. So OP wants a speed nerf, i agree with him, and totally understand most wont agree :) 

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33 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

:D That's pretty cute... not constructive or accurate,  but cute none the less.

I will admit I don't indulge in PVP as often as I used to with ARK.  In most other games that's all I do, but as much as I hate to admit it I find ARK PVP to be a bit too simplistic to hold my attention very long.  Perhaps if the battles were able to be on a significantly larger scale, or if more viable tactics were available to choose from... but lately I find myself leaning more to the creative in ARK and venturing back to other games to sate my frequent need to destroy the accomplishments of others. 

i wouldnt agree more with you. i fought in megatribe war few weeks ago, it lasted 4 days and it was super dumb and boring. for me pvp experience is what battlefield1 offer and thats what i want in ark too, this pvp in ark now is super lame + server lag makes it patetic experience :(

11 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

As I pointed out before, no, quite the opposite.  A generalized character build gives you zero advantages over other characters.

yet you need it for your main character for daily grind. i just dont like that people can have more than one character on one cluster

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4 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

While I understand the point Joe made above, you my friend are making a very strong case in FAVOR of nerfing player movement speed.  :D

How is this in favor of a nerf? Being on foot should be viable and a pvp threat of foot soldiers versus tames is easily skewed towards tames being favored. Besides the fact that If you aren't fast enough,  melee battles become who has more health/ melee/ better items, takes a lot of skill right out of it..

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11 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

How is this in favor of a nerf? Being on foot should be viable and a pvp threat of foot soldiers versus tames is easily skewed towards tames being favored. Besides the fact that If you aren't fast enough,  melee battles become who has more health/ melee/ better items, takes a lot of skill right out of it..

Heya Ep1c! 

Well, the points I was referring to specifically that he was talking about were if you couldn't make super fast characters you'd wouldn't be able to get across the map as quickly, and wouldn't be able to outrun your opponents tames.  While there may be decent arguments about boosts to unmounted players that I could support, those two points in particular I just can't get behind.  Being on foot should never be the fastest way to travel, and most creatures should be able to out run you.

If advantages are to be given to unmounted characters I'd be much more comfortable with bonuses that made it easier to conceal yourself from detection, or an effective "dodge" ability that could get them out of an attacking creatures line of attack and give the opportunity to counter.  Either (or both) of these would be far preferable to the ability to outrun any danger, and likely a lot more fun for everyone involved.

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Heya Ep1c! 
Well, the points I was referring to specifically that he was talking about were if you couldn't make super fast characters you'd wouldn't be able to get across the map as quickly, and wouldn't be able to outrun your opponents tames.  While there may be decent arguments about boosts to unmounted players that I could support, those two points in particular I just can't get behind.  Being on foot should never be the fastest way to travel, and most creatures should be able to out run you.
If advantages are to be given to unmounted characters I'd be much more comfortable with bonuses that made it easier to conceal yourself from detection, or an effective "dodge" ability that could get them out of an attacking creatures line of attack and give the opportunity to counter.  Either (or both) of these would be far preferable to the ability to outrun any danger, and likely a lot more fun for everyone involved.
I like the rebuttal, I would get totally behind a capped speed for characters with the addition of a roll/dodge/strafe, stealth would be kinda hard to pull off with current game mechanics imo.. Unless they come out with a personal cloaking device..

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I'd be in favour of this. Human Base Movement Speed right now is 493/892. I'd argue for reducing it to 350/650, leaving the actual Speed stat leveling intact, but also create a "wind-up/cool-down" to sprinting, so you take just a second or two to hit max speed then, once you've hit max speed and stop sprinting (by literally toggling the sprint button, not by physically slowing down), you'll be kept from sprinting for just a second

||EDIT|| Since I saw some people talking about it, I do like the idea of adding in a dodge roll and perhaps some extra stealth for people on foot

Edited by PuffyPony
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In the context of a survivor game, being able to run quickly would be a pretty common (and even essential) survival skill, within reason. Does anyone have a video demonstrating the current issue being discussed? I've not encountered it myself.

 

There are also bear traps that would quickly halt someone in their tracks if utilized properly.

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Movement speed nerf? it already got nerfed the last time I checked, and if anything needs nerfing, it's tribe sizes and alliance sizes on official PvP

Also, @Jabroni any chance you could let me know what kind of speed build you go for? like, every point in speed or some in health, stam, etc. which you use? lol. I haven't played Ark in months and was thinking of coming back, and this movement speed build sounds very interesting. Feel free to PM or reply here.

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I actually wish they would put in a command to make Admins be able to speed up. I shouldn't have to cheat a dino to get across the map, just to check out a problem with the server, then kill that said dino afterwards. Also would be great if I could go invisible too.

As for players, a dodge roll mechanic, would be preferred over super fast player speed. It allows player strategy, rather than simple stats.

Edited by Sphere

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Let's not start basing our suggestions on realism.. ffs it is ark. Speed should not be nerfed again. Build a damn wall that those plebs can't just run up to and suicide. It's strategy. Everything is OP of you put a bunch of points in it. Hp if you have enough you'll survive a fall from high limit. Melee you pump that and any person running at you with speed gets an Insta KO from a club lol.

Pumping speed means less go which means you just gotta hit em once [generally].

I say buff speed to what it used to be

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16 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

To be very honest with you, the turret part of the debate doesn't bother me much at all.  However, it makes my right eye twitch a little when I see players easily outrunning Raptors and passing Galli's on the straight-a-way.  :S

Ir makes my right eye twitch when I spawn on scorched and cant make it 2m without a terror bird or Wolf attacking me and I have no movespeed to get away but like 500 health and slowly try to run while it keeps up the whole way biting me. Without move speed scorched would be the most pointless map,  you would literally need a tame to do anything,  but how do you get a tame if you can't live long enough to make a bed?  

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And speaking of reality,  in the cave man days it was natural selection,  survival of the fittest at its most basic,  if you couldn't hunt you would die,  if you couldn't survive the environment you would die. So to put ark into reality,  a hostile island covered in predators?  if you can't outrun a raptor you will not make it to your 16th birthday,  I think it is very realistic that everyone is fast,  because in real life the only people that would survive a day on the ark are the fast ones.  Survival of the fittest.

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Nobody wants to nerf speed because for realism. People wants to nerf it,  because its OP compared to wild/tamed dinos + you can easily overrun defense of bases, which took some time to farm it.

Attacking/destroying stuff is now cheap and easy.

And that we need speed for good pvp? Are you kidding? People now only spam Y plants + comp. bow and whip each other.

Edited by isu

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9 hours ago, Crows said:

Movement speed nerf? it already got nerfed the last time I checked, and if anything needs nerfing, it's tribe sizes and alliance sizes on official PvP

Also, @Jabroni any chance you could let me know what kind of speed build you go for? like, every point in speed or some in health, stam, etc. which you use? lol. I haven't played Ark in months and was thinking of coming back, and this movement speed build sounds very interesting. Feel free to PM or reply here.

Not Jabroni, but I run with 250 hp, 250 weight, 150 stam, 181 ms, and 20 fort (getting there, still level 96). I play on official PvP, but admittedly only because my other four friends (small tribe) don't like PvE and I like the anxiety / random scraps with trolls (of which don't happen often since we live in the snow on Island and most people on the server only raid in the bottom half of the map / noob central). I don't even run the movement speed for actual PvP, like sure it's nice to outrun other people/dinos when I need to, but it's just become a comfort thing at this point. I love being able to jump ledges in my base that other tribe mates can't, dodge mobs in caves,  outrun that cancerous Yutyrannus in a straight line if need be, and I love being able to pop a focal chili and outswim a Mosasaur with flippers when diving for deep sea loot crates. It's like I play a different game from all these mega-tribe cross-server PvPers and server hopping trolls.

Do I complain when I get knocked out in one hit by a melee specializing clubber? No. Do I complain when I shoot some health specializing guy in the dome with an ascendant compound bow and he doesn't go down? No. Do I complain when I pick some weight specializing guy with stones upon stones in his inventory and I can't move? No. If anything, update turret AI/mechanics to be more crippling to speedrunners (buff base defense) and get rid of the movement speed bonus for swamp fever (why does a disease even have an upside, it should be all downsides). I'm still salty about these back to back nerfs to oxygen and movement speed. I'd like to see how everyone felt if all their main stats got nerfed by 25% (7.5 hp, stam, weight per level, etc).

And if we're talking about realism rather than PvP balance, then have all small cliff falls (50 hp) have a chance at crippling you for an in-game day and any other cliff falls (100 hp) insta-kill you. Can't carry more than default value and loss of stam over time depending on how much weight you're carrying constantly. All carnivores can insta-kill you with no armour and you can take at max maybe 3 hits with flak before they gnaw you. Give all your tamed dinos a giga enrage mechanic because why the hell would they be 100% under your command at all times when you're leading them to their deaths. Have to sleep at a bed once every in-game day or suffer stat penalties. There's a lot stuff to nitpick if you try to. 

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18 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Movement speed is a godsend to smaller tribes/raider tribes who can't or don't have access to expensive dinos. If you take it away then the game becomes even more biased to larger tribes. It is already near impossible to hide even a 1x1 hut on a map for less then an hour without someone with certain GFX settings and a flyer finding it. 

The players complaining about movement speed seem to be those that play on PVP servers but prefer to farm then fight. They don't like losing to players that fight on foot when they are riding a 100% imprinted super dino with ascendant saddles yet still lose.

You are correct!

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