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should player speed be nerfed? its like fighting with flash or nightcrawler


OttoGrunf

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3 minutes ago, isu said:

We are talking about balance of the game. If we would have servers with nice ping and everything would work perfect, maybe then speed wouldn't be so broken, but the game is not working so good. So, currently speed is broken.

Its same as with flyers change. Lot of people were crying, but it had to be changed. 

But the game is working good?
Why would you punish the majority of people that are not suffering from this because of a minority issue?

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Survival game should be challenging. Where is the challenge when no dino can catch, because you are running as Flash? (PvE)

Or its normal for you, that breeded therizino leveled up to speed can't catch you, because you are running to fast? (PvP)

Or that you can run so fast, that your flak will tank few hits from turrets and you can blow turrets tower with 10+ turrets only with flak and rocket launcher? (PvP)

Or that you can swim so fast, that even Mosasaur can't catch as Boza said? (PvE/PvP)

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17 minutes ago, isu said:

Survival game should be challenging. Where is the challenge when no dino can catch, because you are running as Flash?

Ark stops being challenging the moment you tame any of the ride-able higher level tames. I am on a tame way more often than I am on foot. Practically, I am only on foot in the safe quarters of my base. Your vision of the survival game you want ARK to be is not the same as the vision others want ARK to be. I derive challenge from the grind to get a base established on PvP without getting raided 24/7, not from dying to some measly wild carno that I can easily hunt with my own tame instead of running away from it. 

Also, going back to my Mosasaur fact, I don't need to outswim one. My dolphin does that just fine with its 200% movement speed. Why do I choose to do so anyway? Because it is a much safer (confort) method of getting drops since this game is a buggy mess. I whistle the dolphin to follow me on lowest distance and use the dolphin to get to the drop, jump off, take the drop, swim up with the dolphin following me back to surface, whistle stop (or else it infinitely loops around me since lowest follow distance and high movement speed), whistle follow, get back on and continue the run. Too many times have I lost a dolphin to getting off for a drop and a Mosa/Plesio appear out of the fog, get the dolphin stuck in its body, leaving me to die. Or I jump off to far from the dolphin, get the drop, look back and it's getting chewed. Never again. 

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Honestly Before they did nerf speed I ran into a group of trolls that boosted speed with swamp fever and I literally could not catch them on my bird. Since then I haven't really had a problem with someone being too fast to handle. I would have to agree with some of the posts here that you can't just keep changing everything. Adapt and overcome. 

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Yall just need to learn to cope with different strategies on pvp or play pve/single instead of crying nerf. Having my singeplayer experience gimped due to manchildren who don't actually want to learn the pvp mode they insist on playing is a big part of what killed my love for this game. Speeds already taken a big nerf anyways so the problem is yall are just bad at the mode. ;)

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12 hours ago, Crows said:

Movement speed nerf? it already got nerfed the last time I checked, and if anything needs nerfing, it's tribe sizes and alliance sizes on official PvP

Also, @Jabroni any chance you could let me know what kind of speed build you go for? like, every point in speed or some in health, stam, etc. which you use? lol. I haven't played Ark in months and was thinking of coming back, and this movement speed build sounds very interesting. Feel free to PM or reply here.

Currently my lvl 100 main char has:

300 Health
120 Stam
340 Weight
180 Movement

No Meele/Fort/Food/Water

You can change it up for your needs, but in my opinion around 250 Hp, 300 weight and 170ms are the minimum I would go for.

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5 hours ago, SmokeyB said:

And speaking of reality,  in the cave man days it was natural selection,  survival of the fittest at its most basic,  if you couldn't hunt you would die,  if you couldn't survive the environment you would die. So to put ark into reality,  a hostile island covered in predators?  if you can't outrun a raptor you will not make it to your 16th birthday,  I think it is very realistic that everyone is fast,  because in real life the only people that would survive a day on the ark are the fast ones.  Survival of the fittest.

I understand what you're trying to say about the physical abilities of early man, however the ability to run a little faster than we can now (although highly trained athletes would probably have some serious arguments against that theory) was not what ensured survival.  In the primordial world where the then commonly oversized creatures had little or no fear of man, the least effective survival strategy would have been to simply try to "outrun" aggressive creatures.

Our brains kept us alive, not our rather limited ability to run, because just about everything that wanted to do us harm could either outrun us or out last us.  So (zero offense intended here) if you want to justify your point on this one it's probably best to stay as far away from real world analogies as possible.

Just sayin'

 

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3 hours ago, Olivar said:

But the game is working good?
Why would you punish the majority of people that are not suffering from this because of a minority issue?

This. I was just about to type this out when I read that someone had already done it. Glad I'm not the only one with the thought that the player should not be punished because the game is laggy or has bugs that should have been fixed forever ago. ¬¬

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4 hours ago, isu said:

We are talking about balance of the game. If we would have servers with nice ping and everything would work perfect, maybe then speed wouldn't be so broken, but the game is not working so good. So, currently speed is broken.

Its same as with flyers change. Lot of people were crying, but it had to be changed. 

all points into speed it is still broken, if you add swamp fever to it, you just have teleporting effect that even fastest ptera cant catch

 

4 hours ago, Olivar said:

But the game is working good?
Why would you punish the majority of people that are not suffering from this because of a minority issue?

game is not working good. maybe for you who can huge base and have spare character with all points to speed and use it to c4 raid on other servers. usually weak stone bases i presume

4 hours ago, Ramrod43 said:

Honestly Before they did nerf speed I ran into a group of trolls that boosted speed with swamp fever and I literally could not catch them on my bird. Since then I haven't really had a problem with someone being too fast to handle. I would have to agree with some of the posts here that you can't just keep changing everything. Adapt and overcome. 

you are lucky and you havent run into any now, with is strange since they are everywhere and its still the same

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2 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

Our brains kept us alive, not our rather limited ability to run, because just about everything that wanted to do us harm could either outrun us or out last us.

Lol I am so glad you said something. Human beings have never been the fastest, toughest, or strongest. Our evolutionary niche is in intelligence. We know we can't outrun a lion, or outfight it, but we CAN make clothing to protect us and weapons to increase our offensive power. It was a poor analogy.

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For those who enjoy their PVP yet who feel that stats are too OP if too many points are placed into any single one, and talk about how PVP is all about strategy, then how about a suggestion?

On any PVP server everyone starts out with base stats, and no level ups. This way you literally have to use your mind to outwit and outsmart any situations you face. True survival of the fittest! ^^

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22 minutes ago, Glerian said:

Lol I am so glad you said something. Human beings have never been the fastest, toughest, or strongest. Our evolutionary niche is in intelligence. We know we can't outrun a lion, or outfight it, but we CAN make clothing to protect us and weapons to increase our offensive power. It was a poor analogy.

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Pure health build = 1240 health. Congrats you can survive an unarmored headshot from a 1 250% or less fab sniper round, or tank 15 turret bullets (dead by ~7 turrets in 1 second), or survive any fall. And literally nothing else. All of these feats are essentially accomplishable by wearing ~ramshackle flak with zero points in health and having some parachutes (soon to be glider suits with abberation). An utter waste of a character. Wearing high dura armor is MUCH more effective but combining them makes very little difference as once it breaks most turret setups will kill you in less than 1 sec anyways.

Pure stam build = 1240 stam. Congrats you can now run slowly almost forever and literally nothing else. Pointless.

Pure oxy build = 2380 oxy. Congrats you're reasonably quick in water and don't need air for ~12min and literally nothing else. A set of Flippers+tank is vastly superior to a pure oxy build.

Pure food/water is obviously not even worth talking about.

Pure weight build = 1240 weight. You can carry a lot but that's it with no real PvP application except maybe setting up a FOB or hauling Loot. You can skip the hassle and just have any other player whip everything up and just drag them to where they need to go.

Pure melee build = 670% melee. Punches insta KO players with zero armor or fortitude. Clubs deal near max torp to players with zero armor or fortitude. You get this at the cost of being extremely fragile and slow (not good for actual melee combat). Your entire build is invalidated by high quality flak/riot+some fortitude, or speed+guns, or any of those with the whip meta.

Pure crafting build = 1240%. You can get a decent chance to roll a bonus on BP crafts of 32-64% but still roll 1% crafts as well and literally nothing else. Since damage/armor gets capped at certain values all that it is great for is saving material on lower quality stat BPs as you get MC/Asc quality out of JM/App BPs.

Pure fortitude build = 228 fortitude. You can survive with a snowflake/small flame in very cold/hot conditions but will still die in more extreme temperatures. You will almost always die before being knocked out and any torpor gained diminishes very rapidly. But ultimately you still die extremely easily and the build is invalidated by some fortitude+riot+stimulant.

Pure speed build = 271% speed. You now run as fast as a gallimimus (Literally). I you can out run virtually everything in the game. Put on decent armor high dura flak and you can suicide mass turret deathwall with rockets. You literally walk faster than most wilds can even sprint. For perspective, even with simply 100 armor, if you had enough dura on flak you could survive 5 Longneck shots to the head or 52 turret bullets (Dura to do that would be 1225). More realistically you'd have MC flak with ~600 dura. That means you can still tank nearly twice as many bullets as a pure health build except you now sprint at Galli sprint speeds. 

 

None of the other stats are broken like speed is. Good armor + speed allows you to tank like a pure health build but with the speed of the fastest land mount in the game. Speed + Good armor + rockets/C4 will cheese all but the most dense turret coverages. No other stat when maxed is nearly as effective. 

 

Ultimately more multi-role/general PvP builds involve multiple stats, generally 300-500 health, 100-200 stam, 250-400 weight, 0-30 fortitude, 100-200% melee, 130%-200% speed etc. But that doesn't diminish the fact that even my level 100 build with 130% speed can cheese light turret boxes with no extra people to draw fire, or that other 160%-200% builds can cheese other much larger turret emplacements, especially with a few decoy runners. No other stat is that powerful.

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We all have the ability to customize our stats just how we like them, if yours aren't set up to favor PvP then take a mindwipe and reset them. 

Otherwise use the tools they've given you... Plant "y" will slow someone down no matter what their m/s is set at ... Use it together with all the other defensive stuff and you'll still get raided hahaHAAHA .

Sorry but it's going to happen. Unless you're part of a big grindy alpha farm tribe you might as well set yourself up strictly for PvP and have fun with it. 

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22 minutes ago, Teddansen said:

We all have the ability to customize our stats just how we like them, if yours aren't set up to favor PvP then take a mindwipe and reset them. 

Otherwise use the tools they've given you... Plant "y" will slow someone down no matter what their m/s is set at ... Use it together with all the other defensive stuff and you'll still get raided hahaHAAHA .

Sorry but it's going to happen. Unless you're part of a big grindy alpha farm tribe you might as well set yourself up strictly for PvP and have fun with it. 

So basically your argument is

"Hi my name is Teddansen and I don't care about game balance for Official PvP"

Plant Y now decays in 30 minutes after placement so unless you're replacing your plant y fields every half hour they're worthless as anything but situational defense.

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8 hours ago, Sup3riorArs3nal said:

Pure speed build = 271% speed. You now run as fast as a gallimimus (Literally). I you can out run virtually everything in the game. Put on decent armor high dura flak and you can suicide mass turret deathwall with rockets. You literally walk faster than most wilds can even sprint. For perspective, even with simply 100 armor, if you had enough dura on flak you could survive 5 Longneck shots to the head or 52 turret bullets (Dura to do that would be 1225). More realistically you'd have MC flak with ~600 dura. That means you can still tank nearly twice as many bullets as a pure health build except you now sprint at Galli sprint speeds. 

 

None of the other stats are broken like speed is. Good armor + speed allows you to tank like a pure health build but with the speed of the fastest land mount in the game. Speed + Good armor + rockets/C4 will cheese all but the most dense turret coverages. No other stat when maxed is nearly as effective.

The downside of pure speed build is that you will die where other survivors wont even take damage from little fall height or slope or bump etc. Jumping at high speed is lethal.

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16 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

I understand what you're trying to say about the physical abilities of early man, however the ability to run a little faster than we can now (although highly trained athletes would probably have some serious arguments against that theory) was not what ensured survival.  In the primordial world where the then commonly oversized creatures had little or no fear of man, the least effective survival strategy would have been to simply try to "outrun" aggressive creatures.

Our brains kept us alive, not our rather limited ability to run, because just about everything that wanted to do us harm could either outrun us or out last us.  So (zero offense intended here) if you want to justify your point on this one it's probably best to stay as far away from real world analogies as possible.

Just sayin'

 

Or the good ol' "you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the person next to you". Our intelligence alongside our pack mentality is what kept us alive.

Anyways, after playing and PvPing in MMORPGs for 20+ years, there's three huge things that i've noticed that gives the greatest advantage in PvP.

1. Crowd Control (CC). The ability to deny your opponent the ability to move/act. I've seen CC chains in games where the victim might as well just get up and go make a sandwich during it.

2. Stealth. Pseudo-magical invisibility where you can wag your ass in your opponent's face and he still won't see you (thankfully Ark doesn't have this poop).

3. Movement Speed. The ability to outmaneuver your opponent to evade their attacks, chase them down when they're losing, or run away when you're losing. This matters whether you're meleeing or using ranged.

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5 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

The downside of pure speed build is that you will die where other survivors wont even take damage from little fall height or slope or bump etc. Jumping at high speed is lethal.

Ultimately a pretty minor drawback compared to being able to cheese mass turrets and out sprint virtually all land dinos no problem.

3 hours ago, waterKeeper said:

Flak armor should have weight to it comparable to fur armor.

 

Maybe even scale it' weight with durability.

That would actually be a pretty good way to balance movement speed in general I think

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Finally someone with sense, +1 Sup3riorArs3nal to your stats description. :)

And you don't need all level ups to speed to make your characters OP. 60 is enough. That is 190 speed (w/o chili and swamp fever). You have extra 40-54 points to add to hp/weight and you are one of supermans who can suicide easily on small/medium towers/bases.

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22 hours ago, Sup3riorArs3nal said:

So basically your argument is

"Hi my name is Teddansen and I don't care about game balance for Official PvP"

Plant Y now decays in 30 minutes after placement so unless you're replacing your plant y fields every half hour they're worthless as anything but situational defense.

Ummm yeah that's my point... 

You nailed it.

There's a multitude of reading comprehension tests available for download online if you're having trouble with it ?

 

Seriously though , what's not balanced in PvP

We can all find awesome blueprints and build even better weapons...(if your stats are setup that way) 

The only balance issue here is numbers, there's always going to be a bigger tribe than yours . That's my point @Sup3riorArs3nal that no matter how good you think your base or tribe is you'll still get beat down eventually. How can anyone balance themselves against these mega tribes? 

Actually no that wasn't my point at all... My point was to set your stats for PvP and enjoy it while it lasts.

 

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Inb4 Ark-wide nerf for movement speed, just because PVP

 

I used to be a PVP player. You gotta make do. Players have all sorts of variety in how they are leveled up. You get to experience it and figure out how to counter it. Sadly, that is how everything in this game gets nerfed. I moved to PVE so I wouldn't spend as much time on the game. 

 

No, movement speed doesn't need to be nerfed. AT least not game-wide. I'm tired of seeing PVP rules apply to PVE too. 

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As much as I like being able to outrun terror birds and dire wolves I feel as though speed should be removed as a stat entirely for everything. Land dinos before players though. I don't actually level up speed on any land dino I use now regularly so I would way rather have all those wasted points put into other stats when I tame just like fliers. 

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