should player speed be nerfed? its like fighting with flash or nightcrawler

[ForzaProiettile]

1 minute ago, OttoGrunf said:

so you are ok with insane speeds, but you think that removing insane player speed would benefit pvp? i do agree with second part

no small tribe waste much points into speed. members of large established tribe make seperate characters for griefing, upload great armors and a lot of c4 for them and than grief small people. and i do prefer to fight on foot and with melee weapons

 

members of large established tribe make seperate characters for griefing, upload great armors, no need for helth upgrade and a lot of c4 for them and than grief small people.

"Griefing"  that old chestnut comes out again. PVP is what its actually called. You do play on a PVP server right?

[MandaBear]

Just now, OttoGrunf said:

so you are ok with insane speeds, but you think that removing insane player speed would benefit pvp? i do agree with second part

no small tribe waste much points into speed. members of large established tribe make seperate characters for griefing, upload great armors and a lot of c4 for them and than grief small people. and i do prefer to fight on foot and with melee weapons

 

members of large established tribe make seperate characters for griefing, upload great armors, no need for helth upgrade and a lot of c4 for them and than grief small people.

That's still not a reason to take away the speed. As a member of a large tribe I promise you, if I one day decide "hmm I want to cause the noobs and smaller tribes to really suffer" it wouldn't take me making a separate character to do it. I'll just take one of my gigas over and do it in half of the time. Even if they nerfed the speed again, it would not fix this problem. Larger tribes will always have the advantage over the smaller because they have more people, resources, and dinosaurs. Besides, where is your complaint of max health characters with ascendant riot gear that take forever to die and can tank bullets in a turret with just their own body? Or the characters that can pick up over half of an entire bases worth of inventory and just run away with it? Any stat can become broken when it is pushed to its limits, but that does not mean you can not continue to counter them with strategic playing. 

[ForzaProiettile]

1 minute ago, MandaBear said:

That's still not a reason to take away the speed. As a member of a large tribe I promise you, if I one day decide "hmm I want to cause the noobs and smaller tribes to really suffer" it wouldn't take me making a separate character to do it. I'll just take one of my gigas over and do it in half of the time. Even if they nerfed the speed again, it would not fix this problem. Larger tribes will always have the advantage over the smaller because they have more people, resources, and dinosaurs. Besides, where is your complaint of max health characters with ascendant riot gear that take forever to die and can tank bullets in a turret with just their own body? Or the characters that can pick up over half of an entire bases worth of inventory and just run away with it? Any stat can become broken when it is pushed to its limits, but that does not mean you can not continue to counter them with strategic playing. 

I'm surprised that he is not complaining that with a certain amount of health you can survive any fall. That's one for realism.

[Ranger1]

21 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

But your profile says your a moderator and therefore the category you play the game in ends with an E.

That's pretty cute... not constructive or accurate,  but cute none the less.

I will admit I don't indulge in PVP as often as I used to with ARK.  In most other games that's all I do, but as much as I hate to admit it I find ARK PVP to be a bit too simplistic to hold my attention very long.  Perhaps if the battles were able to be on a significantly larger scale, or if more viable tactics were available to choose from... but lately I find myself leaning more to the creative in ARK and venturing back to other games to sate my frequent need to destroy the accomplishments of others. 

[isu]

5 minutes ago, MandaBear said:

That's still not a reason to take away the speed. As a member of a large tribe I promise you, if I one day decide "hmm I want to cause the noobs and smaller tribes to really suffer" it wouldn't take me making a separate character to do it. I'll just take one of my gigas over and do it in half of the time. Even if they nerfed the speed again, it would not fix this problem. Larger tribes will always have the advantage over the smaller because they have more people, resources, and dinosaurs. Besides, where is your complaint of max health characters with ascendant riot gear that take forever to die and can tank bullets in a turret with just their own body? Or the characters that can pick up over half of an entire bases worth of inventory and just run away with it? Any stat can become broken when it is pushed to its limits, but that does not mean you can not continue to counter them with strategic playing. 

You are not taking gigas to other server and blowing small bases / turret towers just by running.

Problem is that people can run too fast to bases/towers, skipping all turrets and bioturrets and blowing defense. Same tactic as people use in caves. Just run with rocket launcher and bum next to turrets and few turrets are down.

[ilidrael]

+1 for speed nerf even tho i love my OP speed

6 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

That's pretty cute... not constructive or accurate,  but cute none the less.

I will admit I don't indulge in PVP as often as I used to with ARK.  In most other games that's all I do, but as much as I hate to admit it I find ARK PVP to be a bit too simplistic to hold my attention very long.  Perhaps if the battles were able to be on a significantly larger scale, or if more viable tactics were available to choose from... but lately I find myself leaning more to the creative in ARK and venturing back to other games to sate my frequent need to destroy the accomplishments of others. 

You should see the PC wars happening lately. Should be a large enough scale for you.

 

[ForzaProiettile]

Just now, Ranger1 said:

That's pretty cute... not constructive or accurate,  but cute none the less.

I will admit I don't indulge in PVP as often as I used to with ARK.  In most other games that's all I do, but as much as I hate to admit it I find ARK PVP to be a bit too simplistic to hold my attention very long.  Perhaps if the battles were able to be on a significantly larger scale, or if more viable tactics were available to choose from... but lately I find myself leaning more to the creative in ARK and venturing back to other games to sate my frequent need to destroy the accomplishments of others. 

PVP simplistic? You should try it on foot with no dinos the way we play. It's PVP in it's most purest form. Raiding bases that have auto turrets without using dinos takes a lot of creative thinking and strategy. In some cases its outright impossible due to the sheer volume of turrets but in other cases you can find a blind spot or another weakness with a bit of probing.

When you get down to this kind of base level there is actually a lot of strategy. I don't want to give too much away but for instance we will often try and lure a large tamed creature like a Bronto in a certain direction to help block their turrets. In one case I actually hid behind a passive dilo and punched my up to a Plant X to remove the fert

I think a lot of players are missing out on a lot of fun by being in these large alpha/mega tribes. There is a certain charm to achieving great things with minimal equipment/resources that you don't experience being in a large tribe. 

[MandaBear]

Just now, isu said:

You are not taking gigas to other server and blowing small bases / turret towers just by running.

Problem is that people can run too fast to bases/towers, skipping all turrets and bioturrets and blowing defense. Same tactic as people use in caves. Just run with rocket launcher and bum next to turrets and few turrets are down.

We have quite a bit on 2 seperate servers, and about 20 eggs in my base alone that will go down the next breeding event as well. I assure you, when we feel the need to hop servers, its not a big deal to take a giga or wyvern. Which is my entire point.

As for the rest of what you commented, I stated earlier that is not the problem of movement speed but lag. If a server is not lagging that is impossible to do. I know this because we have tried it many times in various scenarios. That type of a problem would only be possible on heavily lag infested servers. Nerfing the player speed will not change your base being wiped by someone that wants you gone, or to get their hands on items you have farmed for. 

[Ranger1]

1 minute ago, isu said:

Any stat can become broken when it is pushed to its limits

I've got to agree with you on this one, it's kind of the root of a lot of related issues.  I'm personally a big fan of diminishing returns when it comes to stats and boosts that come with skills, especially when dealing with a big range of numbers (100 in this case).  Otherwise it is very, very easy to end up with such a wide range of numbers that large game imbalances can occur.  Diminishing returns sounds to some folks like it isn't fair to more advanced players, but everything is relative and those extra few slivers of advantage at higher levels becomes extremely valuable in comparison.

But that's just a pet peeve of mine.

[USMARINE]

Yes they nerfed everything else nerd that too! Plus only trolls care about player speed.

[ForzaProiettile]

7 minutes ago, isu said:

You are not taking gigas to other server and blowing small bases / turret towers just by running.

Problem is that people can run too fast to bases/towers, skipping all turrets and bioturrets and blowing defense. Same tactic as people use in caves. Just run with rocket launcher and bum next to turrets and few turrets are down.

Caves are broken though for defence. With only 1 possible way in its too easy too defend especially the ice cave where you have to crawl to enter the main part meaning you can't even use tank dinos at all. How are you meant to raid that with your body as the tank?

[Sacred Demon]

They nerfed it by limiting mind wipes as well. If a character has all movement speed that's all that character can do making it useless in the rest of the game. Since the speed needs I rarely see any of this super speeders on any of the official PvP servers.

[ForzaProiettile]

1 minute ago, Ranger1 said:

I've got to agree with you on this one, it's kind of the root of a lot of related issues.  I'm personally a big fan of diminishing returns when it comes to stats and boosts that come with skills, especially when dealing with a big range of numbers (100 in this case).  Otherwise it is very, very easy to end up with such a wide range of numbers that large game imbalances can occur.  Diminishing returns sounds to some folks like it isn't fair to more advanced players, but everything is relative and those extra few slivers of advantage at higher levels becomes extremely valuable in comparison.

But that's just a pet peeve of mine.

Diminishing returns would just result in everyone having an average build since it wouldn't be worth investing a large amount of points in anyone one stats. End result would be everyone having nearly the same build.

[ForzaProiettile]

1 minute ago, Sacred Demon said:

They nerfed it by limiting mind wipes as well. If a character has all movement speed that's all that character can do making it useless in the rest of the game. Since the speed needs I rarely see any of this super speeders on any of the official PvP servers.

Exactly well said. If you make a speed character your stuck with it and its since its not a general purpose build its very limited what you can do with it.

[Ranger1]

1 minute ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Diminishing returns would just result in everyone having an average build since it wouldn't be worth investing a large amount of points in anyone one stats. End result would be everyone having nearly the same build.

Believe it or not, the opposite is actually true.  Specialization becomes the key to most things.

[ForzaProiettile]

Just now, Ranger1 said:

Believe it or not, the opposite is actually true.  Specialization becomes the key to most things.

Diminishing returns would encourage the opposite of specialization unless I'm missing something. I've seen it happen in other games, few players want to be penalised for over investing in one area so they make a generalised build with equal points distribution.

[ilidrael]

3 minutes ago, Sacred Demon said:

They nerfed it by limiting mind wipes as well. If a character has all movement speed that's all that character can do making it useless in the rest of the game. Since the speed needs I rarely see any of this super speeders on any of the official PvP servers.

You should see what they did to our cave 2days ago  

But we still caught them after they took all defense down with suicide rockets full speed 

[Sacred Demon]

You should see what they did to our cave 2days ago [emoji14] 
But we still caught them after they took all defense down with suicide rockets full speed 

Caves already take 6x damage so it probably wasn't to hard for them to take advantage of. Speed or just a few sets of high durability Armor usually does the job of getting into building range.

[ilidrael]

They used their speed for the 3 fobs outside the cave too

[Ranger1]

5 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

I think a lot of players are missing out on a lot of fun by being in these large alpha/mega tribes. There is a certain charm to achieving great things with minimal equipment/resources that you don't experience being in a large tribe. 

I'm a big fan of small scale guerrilla actions, they make for a fun and fast paced change of pace that has none of the pressures of large scale combat.  It provides a much needed distraction from time to time.

8 minutes ago, ilidrael said:

You should see the PC wars happening lately. Should be a large enough scale for you.

I apologize for being so offhand in how I phrased things before.  I'm used to large scale battles involving a couple of thousand players... I didn't give you a very good frame of reference on that.  Sorry about that.

[MandaBear]

Just now, ilidrael said:

They used their speed for the 3 fobs outside the cave too

That doesn't even make sense. You have to stop moving to build a fob. How could movement speed be to blame for that? 

[ilidrael]

1 minute ago, MandaBear said:

That doesn't even make sense. You have to stop moving to build a fob. How could movement speed be to blame for that? 

No you just totally thought of something different lol

Our fob, not theirs. Fob was built weeks before

I'm a big fan of small scale guerrilla actions, they make for a fun and fast paced change of pace that has none of the pressures of large scale combat.  It provides a much needed distraction from time to time.

I apologize for being so offhand in how I phrased things before.  I'm used to large scale battles involving a couple of thousand players... I didn't give you a very good frame of reference on that.  Sorry about that.

Daaamn ok i understand what you meant by larger scales now haha

Yeah here the thousand players are waiting to join, busy having Snapshots 10 logouts

[ForzaProiettile]

3 minutes ago, MandaBear said:

That doesn't even make sense. You have to stop moving to build a fob. How could movement speed be to blame for that? 

He is most likely exaggerating.

Most bases that fall to players on foot do so to poor layout/poor design specifically blindspots. I've lost count of the number of bases that I've raided that have had in excess of 200 turrets yet failed to pickup on a blindspot or very weak spot which allowed us entry. The simple truth is people get lazy and complacent. They build their base and then a month or two later they have yet to be attacked so they feel safe and neglect their defences.

[Ranger1]

10 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Diminishing returns would encourage the opposite of specialization unless I'm missing something. I've seen it happen in other games, few players want to be penalised for over investing in one area so they make a generalised build with equal points distribution.

As I pointed out before, no, quite the opposite.  A generalized character build gives you zero advantages over other characters.  To excel most players end up specializing fairly early on (after acquiring what they consider the bare necessities early on when they get a lot of bang for their buck).  Afterwards if they want to excel at something they have to specialize hard in that area, but because of that those few % they gain in that area matter a disproportional amount.

It's how these things work.

Edit:  Just to be clear, I don't think it would be practical with ARKs current game design.  The way levels and stats are laid out would make a system of diminishing returns and awkward fit without redesigning a lot of very basic things.

[ForzaProiettile]

2 minutes ago, Ranger1 said:

As I pointed out before, no, quite the opposite.  A generalized character build gives you zero advantages over other characters.  To excel most players end up specializing fairly early on (after acquiring what they consider the bare necessities early on when they get a lot of bang for their buck).  Afterwards if they want to excel at something they have to specialize hard in that area, but because of that those few % they gain in that area matter a disproportional amount.

It's how these things work.

I take it you are referring to games like WOW or such where you have highly specialized items/weapons that would work with such a build. ARK is very generic you have melee, you have health and you have speed and everything sort of works with everything.

 

I would love to see for instance the 'Melee' stat broken down into more specializations such as categories such as 'Herbivore Slayer/Carnivore Slayer' where you get extra damage depending on which you put points into. Or even broken down further into different generalised categories of dinos such as mammals, flyers so on.