Officially killed Beta and Alpha Dragon on Official

[bigfishrob]

I dont "want" to doubt i just want official proof. Even bumping tame times for  quality of life changes could improve or change things. 

[Olivar]

1 minute ago, bigfishrob said:

I dont "want" to doubt i just want official proof. Even bumping tame times for  quality of life changes could improve or change things. 

Are you making up these excuses as your others get debunked?
Changing a timer multiplier changes exactly that : the time to do something.
All RNG parameters applied by the game are still implemented, and easily demonstrateable by hatching three eggs with a boosted timer and watching you get three different timers.
Yet repeat the same on official and you will get three different timers as well yet with a factor difference of what you have configured.

This is called imperical testing, and with enough done of this, it's perfectly safe to say that your setting changes nothing but the timer.
But fine, to humor your requests in every single topic : we'll keep asking Wildcard

[bigfishrob]

11 minutes ago, Olivar said:

Are you making up these excuses as your others get debunked?
Changing a timer multiplier changes exactly that : the time to do something.
All RNG parameters applied by the game are still implemented, and easily demonstrateable by hatching three eggs with a boosted timer and watching you get three different timers.
Yet repeat the same on official and you will get three different timers as well yet with a factor difference of what you have configured.

This is called imperical testing, and with enough done of this, it's perfectly safe to say that your setting changes nothing but the timer.
But fine, to humor your requests in every single topic : we'll keep asking Wildcard

Speed of taming improvea taming efficiency does it not? And better taming efficiency is better levels and better taming bonus stats. It would be nice if wc would release the actual settings so ppl didnt have to GUESS them

[Olivar]

12 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

Speed of taming improvea taming efficiency does it not? And better taming efficiency is better levels and better taming bonus stats. It would be nice if wc would release the actual settings so ppl didnt have to GUESS them

Which is completely irrelevant.
When we're comparing dinosaurs we are assuming that people tame dinosaurs with kibbles to achieve a 100% taming bonus.
Anything that's not tamed with a kibble is worthless regardless due the loss in attributes.
So whether we tame it instantly or not has no bearing on the outcome.

And even this depends on the dinosaur in question.
Take a therizinosaur for example.
Assume you get it down perfectly by hitting with just enough darts to get it unconscious, and not hitting it accidently.
Using a kibble will put you at 97,6% taming effectiveness according dodorex.
Using veggies will put you around 76% effectiveness, giving you around 58 bonus levels.
Something we see on our server as well when taming dinosaurs.
Yes, we can better results because we have to feed our dinosaurs less, and run less into trouble of getting attacked during the taming process, but the difference is minimal at best. Neglectable even to make a difference in the long run of breeding for stats.

Because you need to keep in mind the following things when taming a dinosaur:

1. It's starter level
2. It's bonus stats distribution
3. It's taming effectiveness

There's way more variables involved that actually determine the outcome of a good tame.
Just because you tame a 150 wild Therizinosaur, doesn't mean it's even usable for breeding or boss fights.

So yes, on our server it makes less of a difference what we use to tame something. On official kibble tames are recommended simply due the speed for taming.
Effectivenes depends after all on damage taken + amounts fed to tame.
However your argument contains such a small debate point it's not even worth the time I researched this and wrote it down.

[invincibleqc]

16 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

Speed of taming improvea taming efficiency does it not? And better taming efficiency is better levels and better taming bonus stats. It would be nice if wc would release the actual settings so ppl didnt have to GUESS them

 

It does matters for some creatures, but not for Therizinos. A level 150 kibbles tamed will always tame at 224 no matter if your taming rate is x1 or x100. However, take in example a Quetzal; it will tame at 219 with x1 rate and 224 with x100. In conclusion, this is dependent to the specie. But since the current thread is talking about Therizinos, @Olivar is 100% right.

[Olivar]

Our therizinosaurs even started from a level 120 tame, and we ended up with 179 Therizinosaurs after that.
Which means that our levels could be a LOT higher even, since we have a 150 cap as well.
We used the dodorex to actually look at our breeding pair, and we discovered that we started actually with poop therizinosaurs.
They weren't even focused on damage or surviveability.

So the video's you see from us?
Those are weak......
I'm pretty sure that Vin's and Nutz Therizino's make ours look like dodo's

[Meshi]

But it must be said that Dragon boss breath with 20% hp dmg is lazy and dumb mechanics and it should be fixed so nobody needs to take that extreme measures as breading super OP dinos to be able to do one broken fight.

[invincibleqc]

11 minutes ago, Meshi said:

But it must be said that Dragon boss breath with 20% hp dmg is lazy and dumb mechanics and it should be fixed so nobody needs to take that extreme measures as breading super OP dinos to be able to do one broken fight.

It is on their TODO:

On 8/18/2017 at 7:58 PM, Jen said:

Survivor RaifuForLaifu, asks “Can we get a damage reduction on The Dragon's fire breath pretty please with extra sprinkles on top? 25% feels a tad ridiculous. Thank you”

Quote

It shall be done!

 

Not sure when they will get to that but will most likely be revisited at some point in the future.

[Olivar]

Soon™

[bigfishrob]

1 hour ago, Olivar said:

Which is completely irrelevant.
When we're comparing dinosaurs we are assuming that people tame dinosaurs with kibbles to achieve a 100% taming bonus.
Anything that's not tamed with a kibble is worthless regardless due the loss in attributes.
So whether we tame it instantly or not has no bearing on the outcome.

And even this depends on the dinosaur in question.
Take a therizinosaur for example.
Assume you get it down perfectly by hitting with just enough darts to get it unconscious, and not hitting it accidently.
Using a kibble will put you at 97,6% taming effectiveness according dodorex.
Using veggies will put you around 76% effectiveness, giving you around 58 bonus levels.
Something we see on our server as well when taming dinosaurs.
Yes, we can better results because we have to feed our dinosaurs less, and run less into trouble of getting attacked during the taming process, but the difference is minimal at best. Neglectable even to make a difference in the long run of breeding for stats.

Because you need to keep in mind the following things when taming a dinosaur:

1. It's starter level
2. It's bonus stats distribution
3. It's taming effectiveness

There's way more variables involved that actually determine the outcome of a good tame.
Just because you tame a 150 wild Therizinosaur, doesn't mean it's even usable for breeding or boss fights.

So yes, on our server it makes less of a difference what we use to tame something. On official kibble tames are recommended simply due the speed for taming.
Effectivenes depends after all on damage taken + amounts fed to tame.
However your argument contains such a small debate point it's not even worth the time I researched this and wrote it down.

I already know the strat is possible with super dinos. The theory was presented a long time ago long before these recent posts. As for test thus far the theri seems to take just as much dmg as a rex per breath based on percentage. So not getting a takes less dmg bonus. Basicallynu gain the veggie cake heal bonus (which i think some mentions of changing that soon in notes) . We have already done this fight my concern is closeness to accuracy for working on alph overseer and have a true match as possible from dedi but it cannot be garaunteed to be the same bc there is no pu lic listing of official settings.

[bigfishrob]

Just now, bigfishrob said:

I already know the strat is possible with super dinos. The theory was presented a long time ago long before these recent posts. As for test thus far the theri seems to take just as much dmg as a rex per breath based on percentage. So not getting a takes less dmg bonus. Basicallynu gain the veggie cake heal bonus (which i think some mentions of changing that soon in notes) . We have already done this fight my concern is closeness to accuracy for working on alph overseer and have a true match as possible from dedi but it cannot be garaunteed to be the same bc there is no pu lic listing of official settings.

And we didnt have to breed theris for 6 months to get the fights done and witbout glitching

[Olivar]

1 minute ago, bigfishrob said:

I already know the strat is possible with super dinos. The theory was presented a long time ago long before these recent posts. As for test thus far the theri seems to take just as much dmg as a rex per breath based on percentage. So not getting a takes less dmg bonus. Basicallynu gain the veggie cake heal bonus (which i think some mentions of changing that soon in notes) . We have already done this fight my concern is closeness to accuracy for working on alph overseer and have a true match as possible from dedi but it cannot be garaunteed to be the same bc there is no pu lic listing of official settings.

Overseer fight is a raptoring joke compared to dragon.
The healing for the veggy cake is not even required because Therizino's can do enough damage before 2 cakes are usually eaten.
It just helps in minimizing the damage they suffer, as the dragon still bites for quite some damage with strong saddles.
Ours took up to 300 damage per bite.

Your concern is not closeness to accuracy.
Your concern is simply not wanting to do the effort yourself without putting in any risk.
You are dismissing all posts, videos and strategies posting with the same answer, every single time.
You want a complete, prefabricated solution so you can simply copy it and face-walk through it, risking nothing in the process.
Here's a new tip : You're going to need a mix to clear the Alpha Ascension cave and farm some pretty Pheromone darts as well.

3 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

And we didnt have to breed theris for 6 months to get the fights done and witbout glitching

Which has also been answered as well, it can be done in 5-8 weeks with proper setup and obtaining proper starting birds from trading.

[bigfishrob]

1 minute ago, Olivar said:

Overseer fight is a raptoring joke compared to dragon.
The healing for the veggy cake is not even required because Therizino's can do enough damage before 2 cakes are usually eaten.
It just helps in minimizing the damage they suffer, as the dragon still bites for quite some damage with strong saddles.
Ours took up to 300 damage per bite.

Your concern is not closeness to accuracy.
Your concern is simply not wanting to do the effort yourself without putting in any risk.
You are dismissing all posts, videos and strategies posting with the same answer, every single time.
You want a complete, prefabricated solution so you can simply copy it and face-walk through it, risking nothing in the process.
Here's a new tip : You're going to need a mix to clear the Alpha Ascension cave and farm some pretty Pheromone darts as well.

Which has also been answered as well, it can be done in 5-8 weeks with proper setup and obtaining proper starting birds from trading.

ty for your misguided insight. we have plenty of theriz and we have done dragon many many times already without somebody "prefabricating" a strat for us. As well as farming manticore despite the anti stick changes and very buggy ai. Unlike you we do not play in the sandbox all the time and ironically u claim I dont want to risk nothing in the process when you literally can spawn ur stuff in LOL.  We are doing this on new official servers. there are no god Theriz available yet and being we like to stay ahead as much as possible seems rather a waste to raise theriz unnecessarily when rexes will do it just fine. I just want a LEGIT testing environment with the ACTUAL official settings to confirm 100% apples to apples and not apples to ur gmo'd apples. about the best theriz i have seen on new official is 384 melee and 7500-8500 hp. And yes we have taken them in on fights for testing how much dmg they took vs rexes which proved to be the same %. dmg output however would be lower for theriz that we have available within the next 6 months depending on server caps. We do already have 437 melee rexes and they are viable for other bosses. We even have a few tech suits and setting up teleporters ect already. ALL ON NEW OFFICIAL... not a sand box. so unless you have a gm post or something with the actual settings instead of your GUESS of settings then i trust ur results less. I just thought since you claim it to be EXACT to official you might actually have the settings i wanted to see from wc but clearly that is not the case.

[Olivar]

Thanks for proving my point that you simply do not wish to contribute to the topic.

[GreenRoc]

I'm reading this thread - twice now - and I am happily enjoying all of the data and info that Olivar and most other posters are providing. I personally would prefer using Theriz over Rexes. Theriz can fit thorugh dino gates while riding them, unlike the Rexes. Theriz are prettier imo. I dont care for the look of the rexes in the game. Their big rex bodies take up more space, and I have limited space in my base area to work with.

I've never done a boss fight on Official/Legacy - ever - so all this data is very helpful in showing me what direction to go when I decide to start prepping for these nightmares. I hate this part of this game - bosses and caves - not fun for me at all. I like to build and look at pretty dinos. I want some damn Tek doors for dilos sake. Because auto-open doors are to die for (pun intended).

I just dont enjoy losing dinos, or raising my blood pressure. Adrenaline hurts me irl. I hate the idea that some of the prettiest build pieces, and improvements of survivor life (water stuff, armor set, transmitters, teleports etc) is locked behind parts of the game I do not enjoy at all. I have to have limits in what I will put myself through, not sure if it is worth it yet, but those Tek doors, and Tek Transmitters - /me drools. Raising theriz would be just a bit easier imo than rexes, because of their looks, and the space they take up.

 

TL;DR: Love all the good input in this thread, keep it going, thank you!

[Olivar]

8 minutes ago, GreenRoc said:

I'm reading this thread - twice now - and I am happily enjoying all of the data and info that Olivar and most other posters are providing. I personally would prefer using Theriz over Rexes. Theriz can fit thorugh dino gates while riding them, unlike the Rexes. Theriz are prettier imo. I dont care for the look of the rexes in the game. Their big rex bodies take up more space, and I have limited space in my base area to work with.

I've never done a boss fight on Official/Legacy - ever - so all this data is very helpful in showing me what direction to go when I decide to start prepping for these nightmares. I hate this part of this game - bosses and caves - not fun for me at all. I like to build and look at pretty dinos. I want some damn Tek doors for dilos sake. Because auto-open doors are to die for (pun intended).

I just dont enjoy losing dinos, or raising my blood pressure. Adrenaline hurts me irl. I hate the idea that some of the prettiest build pieces, and improvements of survivor life (water stuff, armor set, transmitters, teleports etc) is locked behind parts of the game I do not enjoy at all. I have to have limits in what I will put myself through, not sure if it is worth it yet, but those Tek doors, and Tek Transmitters - /me drools. Raising theriz would be just a bit easier imo than rexes, because of their looks, and the space they take up.

 

TL;DR: Love all the good input in this thread, keep it going, thank you!

We were at the beginning terrified of attempting the bosses. Simply with all the nightmare stories we had read on the forums and reddit.
But once we actually started with killing the gamma encounters, we progressed through them so fast it became ridiculous.
Before we knew it, we were killing Gamma and Beta bosses back to back, and did our Beta Ascension.

Good preparation is key for these fights.
And yes, depending on where you are playing it's going to require quite a bit of time to either get started or get through the entire breeding.
RNG definitely matters as well.
We burned through 15000 babies more or less before we got all 20/20 mutations.
15000!
We still see them running in our dreams these days.......

[ThzNutz]

1 hour ago, bigfishrob said:

there are no god Theriz available yet

for the record these are not god Theriz -- using "god" to describe a dino has always implied that the dinos stats were obtained using an exploit or unacceptable method (ie: baby taming, etc). these are legitimately bred and mutated dinos obtained through time and patience on the part of the breeders. i get that you most likely only meant that they are very powerful theriz, which is true, but the the distinction between these theriz and god theriz is one i felt should be made

[bigfishrob]

2 minutes ago, ThzNutz said:

for the record these are not god Theriz -- using "god" to describe a dino has always implied that the dinos stats were obtained using an exploit or unacceptable method (ie: baby taming, etc). these are legitimately bred and mutated dinos obtained through time and patience on the part of the breeders. i get that you most likely only meant that they are very powerful theriz, which is true, but the the distinction between these theriz and god theriz is one i felt should be made

I did mean just well bred Theriz multiple generations of mutations stacked in that especially with tame cap will be impossible to get for a long time.

[GreenRoc]

bigfishrob, I think I see what you are unhappy about, is the inability to have these kinds of theriz sooner than later on non-Legacy Official (am i right?). There is unfortunately nothing that people in this thread can do to help you get these any sooner than you can. They are playing with Legacy Official tamed dinos (if I am reading everything correctly). Given time, and I know, a LOT of time, you too can have theriz, eventually. It is possible, it is possible, it is just not at this given time, but it is possible. Just be patient and persistent, and you can have them too.

I am sorry for the frustration you must feel. Just hang in there, and it will be possible. Patience young padawan.

 

Edit to add: "Official Legacy Tamed as the original parents (with multiple generations bred from them)" is what I was thinking of when I typed Legacy Official tamed - I forgot to add that detail.

[AngrySaltire]

9 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

I did mean just well bred Theriz multiple generations of mutations stacked in that especially with tame cap will be impossible to get for a long time.

So what your saying is that you are needing a new way of killing the bosses which doesnt require breeding up dinos ?Not sure there is a way... good luck. 

[bigfishrob]

5 minutes ago, AngrySaltire said:

So what your saying is that you are needing a new way of killing the bosses which doesnt require breeding up dinos ?Not sure there is a way... good luck. 

Not saying that at all. Esp since we are already currently killing the bosses. Im saying this is not currently as simple as it is laid out to be for somebody wanting to kill ths dragon NOW and not 6 months from now.

[GreenRoc]

Just now, bigfishrob said:

this is not currently as simple as it is laid out to be for somebody wanting to kill ths dragon NOW and not 6 months from now

It isnt being laid out simple, nor is it being said you can kill them now, from what I have seen in this thread. I'm not sure where you are getting these impressions from. It does take as long as people are saying it is, or longer. 6 months from now, sounds about right. I haven't started mass breeding mine. I see a road ahead that may take 6 months, and I am ok with that.

[bigfishrob]

11 minutes ago, GreenRoc said:

bigfishrob, I think I see what you are unhappy about, is the inability to have these kinds of theriz sooner than later on non-Legacy Official (am i right?). There is unfortunately nothing that people in this thread can do to help you get these any sooner than you can. They are playing with Legacy Official tamed dinos (if I am reading everything correctly). Given time, and I know, a LOT of time, you too can have theriz, eventually. It is possible, it is possible, it is just not at this given time, but it is possible. Just be patient and persistent, and you can have them too.

I am sorry for the frustration you must feel. Just hang in there, and it will be possible. Patience young padawan.

 

Edit to add: "Official Legacy Tamed as the original parents (with multiple generations bred from them)" is what I was thinking of when I typed Legacy Official tamed - I forgot to add that detail.

Im not mad about theris not currently available. I just dont see the point of this method being pushed as if it is the best and only way when it not currently available to noew official. If you are ok waiting months and months after aberation to do dragon or ascend ect then sure its doable. But also right now it is still unneccessary as it can be fine killed with rexes which are available for ppl wanting to do the bosses now.

[Toqs]

Only way I've seen alpha rag arena done on new official is with 10 people 18 rex 1 yuty 1 daeodon. Theriz strats will work eventually on this fight but not until you have high stats. For now this is the only thing that works on new official servers. You need asc pumps with 300 shotgun rounds each.

Same thing goes for alpha drag. 10 shooters make the fight very easy 

[ThzNutz]

15 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

just dont see the point of this method being pushed as if it is the best and only way when it not currently available to noew official.

i never said it was the best or only way, just that it works on Official Legacy. there are many ways to fight bosses, some work better than others. seen folks running around on a deer with shotguns -- works, just not for me....at least atm

 

10 minutes ago, Toqs said:

You need asc pumps with 300 shotgun rounds each.

we still prefer AR, but options are nice