questions regarding post-tame stats

[Demigod]

does the taming effectiveness affect the increase in stat-per-level?

what i mean is, let's say i manage kibble taming a 150 spino, and let's just assume that the effectiveness is 100%. if i tame a second 150 spino with identical stats, but with cooked fish meat and end up with a 17% effectiveness...will their stats increase in the same increments per level?  

the same question for this scenario: 100% effective kibble tame 150 spino vs 100% effective kibble tame 15 spino?

will base damage still increase by the exact same percentage, independent of level or effectiveness? if not, what effects base-stat multipliers?

ive searched google and the forums for this answer but i've heard different things from different people and i'm hoping to lay this question to rest. 

[Jonais]

The amount per stat will be the same in either case, however, the kibble tame will get more bonus levels giving it more more stats. In addition to this, there is a multiplier on most damage stats that is based on the tame effectiveness. If you'd like more detailed info the wiki is pretty good and thorough. 

[Demigod]

2 minutes ago, Jonais said:

The amount per stat will be the same in either case, however, the kibble tame will get more bonus levels giving it more more stats. In addition to this, there is a multiplier on most damage stats that is based on the tame effectiveness. If you'd like more detailed info the wiki is pretty good and thorough. 

i went to the wiki and it gave me a general idea but nothing too helpful. 

the damage multiplier you mentioned, is it the same for every tame depending on effectiveness or do different creatures exhibit different multipliers?

what would be the damage multiplier for a theoretical 150 griffin perfect tame?

[Dustrider]

Percentage is independent of level. However the total amount gained from each level up will be far greater on a level 150 vs a level 15. This is because the stat that is being multiplied is much higher on a high level dino. For example, lets assume a 150 rex has 5k health and the level up multiplier is 10% (not sure what it actually is but doesnt matter for this illustration). After one level up its health would become 5500. A level 15 with 500 health would only get 50 points into health with the same 10% level up.

[Cataclisto]

Use this website, this will show you the exact amount of bonus levels based on your rates.
www.dododex.com

using your example of a spino, on 1x rates,
You would have a level 220 spino using kibble (219 levels that could possibly be anywhere)
You would have a level 152 spino using raw fish meat (only 151 levels)

Regarding land tames, most levels are wasted in speed and don't count, so you can mentally remove 20-40 of the fake levels from the numbers above. They still count for end shown level, but do nothing.

(now I'm just guessing here, so you can ignore this if you want, I think I'm right but this starts getting complicated and its easy to screw up :P)
Now ark increases stats differently between wild level up and tamed levelups
Base damage is what we will look at, Levels in wild melee determine the ending base damage.
Lets say your spino starts with 300 melee after its tamed... Now this is 40 levels in that stat, Each tamed point in melee adds 1.7% on top that 300 stat, so if you add lets say 30 levels that would be +51% of that 300 number, so you would end up with 453 melee after putting 30 points into that stat.

[Saupe]

2 minutes ago, Dustrider said:

Percentage is independent of level. However the total amount gained from each level up will be far greater on a level 150 vs a level 15. This is because the stat that is being multiplied is much higher on a high level dino. For example, lets assume a 150 rex has 5k health and the level up multiplier is 10% (not sure what it actually is but doesnt matter for this illustration). After one level up its health would become 5500. A level 15 with 500 health would only get 50 points into health with the same 10% level up.

This guy is correct.

 Base stat multipliers are affected by NOTHING other than the server settings.

 

Ill go through it in full for you though.

Stat gain per player applied level is a percentage of the POST tame stat value. 

What taming effectiveness does is change the amount of points the tame can distribute randomly at the point of taming.

So your 150 tamed out with max possible effectiveness, gets 74 extra levels for taming making it a 224. The 74 levels are distributed randomly across all stats but speed, so 74/6= 22 extra points spent per stat (as an average).

Those 22 points push the melee from 220% to say 316% (at a guess).

The 150 tamed with 17% effectiveness gains 12 extra levels so becomes a 162. The 12 levels are distributed randomly across all stats again, so it gains an extra 2 points in each stat.

With only 2 extra points it gets 232% damage.. 

The stat gain per level is calculated off say 316% and 232% damage respectively, if it Gains 2% of the original stat each level,

the "perfect" tame gains 6% melee per level, the fish tame gets 4% per level, this adds up quick, especially on things such as health. 

 

The stats are increasing at the same RATE, but the increments are higher on the one with the highest base stat.

 

[Demigod]

2 minutes ago, Saupe said:

This guy is correct.

 Base stat multipliers are affected by NOTHING other than the server settings.

 

Ill go through it in full for you though.

Stat gain per player applied level is a percentage of the POST tame stat value. 

What taming effectiveness does is change the amount of points the tame can distribute randomly at the point of taming.

So your 150 tamed out with max possible effectiveness, gets 74 extra levels for taming making it a 224. The 74 levels are distributed randomly across all stats but speed, so 74/6= 22 extra points spent per stat (as an average).

Those 22 points push the melee from 220% to say 316% (at a guess).

The 150 tamed with 17% effectiveness gains 12 extra levels so becomes a 162. The 12 levels are distributed randomly across all stats again, so it gains an extra 2 points in each stat.

With only 2 extra points it gets 232% damage.. 

The stat gain per level is calculated off say 316% and 232% damage respectively, if it Gains 2% of the original stat each level,

the "perfect" tame gains 6% melee per level, the fish tame gets 4% per level, this adds up quick, especially on things such as health. 

 

The stats are increasing at the same RATE, but the increments are higher on the one with the highest base stat.

 

ooookay okay i'm starting to get it. so basically the percent change per stat level is always the same on a particular mount. a dino with 200% melee post-tame, if the multiplier is 5%, will increase to 210% melee upon the first level you put into it; respectively, the same dino with 100% melee post-tame will only reach 105% after the first level.

and this applies to all stats on the particular creature.

do i have this correct?

also...don't certain animals receive a melee bonus based on effectiveness? i read somewhere that the rex does. 

[Saupe]

12 minutes ago, Cataclisto said:

Regarding land tames, most levels are wasted in speed and don't count, so you can remove 20-40 of the fake levels from the numbers above.

(now I'm just guessing here, so you can ignore this if you want, I think I'm right but this starts getting complicated and its easy to screw up :P)
Now ark increases stats differently between wild level up and tamed levelups
Base damage is what we will look at, Levels in wild melee determine the ending base damage.
Lets say your spino starts with 300 melee after its tamed... Now this is 40 levels in that stat, Each tamed point in melee adds 1.7% on top that 300 stat, so if you add lets say 30 levels that would be +51% of that 300 number, so you would end up with 453 melee after putting 30 points into that stat.

Not many people have realised, but tames no longer spend points in speed. It is stated under the dino stats on the wiki.

Your math is correct.

 

Yeah, you get it demigod. The bonuses based on effectiveness you never see, they are applied as the dino tames out so the post tame melee stat already shows it.

If you want to know about breeding however, things change slightly, I will link a video later that explains it all perfectly

 

 

 

[Cataclisto]

8 minutes ago, Saupe said:

Not many people have realised, but tames no longer spend points in speed. It is stated under the dino stats on the wiki.

Your math is correct.

That is only true for birds. Aquatic life for example gets the worst of it with wasting both speed and oxygen points. What the wiki means is the tames don't count the points that ark gives to their speed stats, this has always been the case. I'll post a example below of my rex stats that I have raised in the new official servers, level 224, using dododex as a cross reference. If speed Points didn't exist all of a sudden then all tames would loose levels and people would have no idea why, and we would see a solid 3 months of posts like we did after the flyer nerf with people not understanding new levels

[Demigod]

thank you very much for clarifying. i've been looking for this info for a while. my server got shut down so when i start back up i'll make sure to take all of this into account when taming and breeding.

[Pipinghot]

14 hours ago, Demigod said:

does the taming effectiveness affect the increase in stat-per-level?

No. Taming effectiveness affects the number of levels they gain when tamed, but the increase in stats-per-level is the same for every tame.

will their stats increase in the same increments per level?

Yes, every wild level (which includes any levels gained during the taming process) will increase the Melee Damage % of a Spino by +5%.

the same question for this scenario: 100% effective kibble tame 150 spino vs 100% effective kibble tame 15 spino?

will base damage still increase by the exact same percentage, independent of level or effectiveness? if not, what effects base-stat multipliers?

It doesn't matter whether it's a level 15 or a 150, each level melee that it gains during the taming process will give it +5% Melee Damage. You can verify this by looking at any of the stats calculators (like for example this one from Dododex http://www.dododex.com/stat-calculator/spinosaur ).

The important thing to remember is that the levels a dino gains during the taming process are counted as "wild levels", and the levels that you add to them after you tame them are "tamed levels", that calculator shows how wild stats are allocated to dinos, which includes the levels & stats they gain during the taming process.

In the "Level" field, type in 15. Now look down at the Melee Damage stat, every time you click the "+" button the dino gains +5 Melee Damage %.

Now go back up to the "Level field and type in 150, then go down and click on the "+" next to Melee Damage. Again we see that the spino gains +5%  Melee Damage with every level of Melee Damage that it gains.

Let's assume that the Level 15 and the Level 150 are both completely average (just to make this example easier).

The Level 15

The level 15 has 1 base level, and 2 levels in each of the 7 stats. This gives it a Melee Damage rating of 110 (100 base + 2 levels * 5%).

When you perfect tame it, that spino gains 7 levels, and since we have 7 stats that makes it easy for our example, we'll assign one more level in every stat.

Now it has a Melee rating of 115 (100 base plus 3 levels *5%).

The Level 150

The level 150 has 1 base level, and 21 levels in each of the 7 stats (this leaves 2 levels left over, for the sake of convenience we're going to add those to Speed just to get them out of the way). So it has 205 Melee Damage (100 base + 21 levels * 5%).

When you perfect tame it, this spino gains 70 levels, which is convenient because we'll assign 10 points to each stat, which means it now has 31 levels in each stat (plus the extra 2 in Speed).

Now it has a Melee Rating of 255 (100 base + 31 levels * 5%).

 

 

 

 

[SmokeyB]

17 hours ago, Demigod said:

does the taming effectiveness affect the increase in stat-per-level?

what i mean is, let's say i manage kibble taming a 150 spino, and let's just assume that the effectiveness is 100%. if i tame a second 150 spino with identical stats, but with cooked fish meat and end up with a 17% effectiveness...will their stats increase in the same increments per level?  

the same question for this scenario: 100% effective kibble tame 150 spino vs 100% effective kibble tame 15 spino?

will base damage still increase by the exact same percentage, independent of level or effectiveness? if not, what effects base-stat multipliers?

ive searched google and the forums for this answer but i've heard different things from different people and i'm hoping to lay this question to rest. 

The higher the stats to start with the more they increase per level up. So say a rex has 14k health and another one has 10k health the 14k rex will get more health per level up applied than the 10k rex. If you apply all levels to health the difference will be very noticeble say 40k for the 14k rex and 30k for the 10k rex for example , a 10k gap that started as a 4k gap.

It is the same for melee damage . The rex with 450 melee will gain more melee damage per level than the rex that started with 190 melee .

[X111]

14 minutes ago, SmokeyB said:

The higher the stats to start with the more they increase per level up. So say a rex has 14k health and another one has 10k health the 14k rex will get more health per level up applied than the 10k rex. If you apply all levels to health the difference will be very noticeble say 40k for the 14k rex and 30k for the 10k rex for example , a 10k gap that started as a 4k gap.

It is the same for melee damage . The rex with 450 melee will gain more melee damage per level than the rex that started with 190 melee .

it looks like it should work that way with every level on the 450 gaining 22.5 whilst on the 190 every level would mean 9.5 gain?

I'm not going to lie I've been staring at all this and still confused, all I do know is to knock out creatures until I find my wanted stat and breed it with a pre-requisitioned stat from another tame regardless of level

[yekrucifixion187]

27 minutes ago, X111 said:

it looks like it should work that way with every level on the 450 gaining 22.5 whilst on the 190 every level would mean 9.5 gain?

I'm not going to lie I've been staring at all this and still confused, all I do know is to knock out creatures until I find my wanted stat and breed it with a pre-requisitioned stat from another tame regardless of level

This is pretty accurate too. 

With RNG being the biggest factor all you can do is try to find the highest point distribution spent pre-tame and then hope for an above average stat roll. 

I tamed a 150 beaver that had spent 57 points in oxygen pre-tame. That left 93 points for it to divvy up in the remaining 6 stats. Fortunately it did not waste any points in speed so everything else was average pre-tame but due to a low stat roll in oxygen when it tamed out perfectly (224) it now only spent 34 points in oxygen. That means that I got a big increase elsewhere (I believe it was hp in this case). 

I tamed a 140 Yuty this past weekend. It had 31 points in HP (7920) pre-tame with average points (17 I believe so 1134) in stamina. Now I mutton tamed it because Kentro kibble is ridiculous and so it tamed at 80% effectiveness. With RNG though I got a good jump in HP (9920) but also a nice jump in stamina (1720). I can only imagine what it would look like with a kibble tame but again Kentro kibble is ridiculous to make. There is also a taming multiplier for melee (which is affected by TE) and additive bonus' for hp, melee, speed, and torpor (not affected by TE but speed and torpor are dino specific). 

"In addition to bonus levels, most creatures have at least one stat that has a Taming Multiplier that is based on Taming Effectiveness" - Ark Wiki (in a brief research it looks likes this is melee for everything though)

"the multiplier scales proportionately to the Taming Effectiveness. Using the rex as an example again, the full 17.6% multiplier is only achieved with 100% Taming Effectiveness. At only 50% TE, you will only get 8.8% bonus melee damage." -Ark Wiki

 https://ark.gamepedia.com/Taming#Taming_Effectiveness

In short. RNG plays the biggest factor in any dino you tame both at a wild and tamed, and then again when bred, level.