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pve Let's real talk about PVE, Offline Protection & the land /water dino grab


TheStrip

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Right, so I'm not here to vent or complain, I am hoping to ask people (and let's stay strictly on topic) what their current experience is like ever since offline protection has been implemented and if it has any impact on their opinion whether if the non-avian dinos with the grabbing ability (thylacoleo, kaprosuchus, tusoteuthis, megalosaurus) have objective factors to why it should or should not return. 

I will disclose however I am on the return vote. From what I can observe back when it was a problem, the grabbing was a useful taming strategy, but also a very difficult but impactful griefing strategy that some people used to foul ends. In my observations however, the dinos that can be brought over to people's bases to grief were only powerful enough to cause a meaningful amount of damage when a base owner was offline and unprotected. With the emergence of the offline protection some time ago, I began to ponder if it has rendered this grab nerf for land and water dinos moot, or any changes to circumstance? I'm interested in what you have to saye, maybe I'm wrong? Let's post here to learn and hopefully obtain an up to date consensus regarding this topic.

 

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Kiting seems to not be against the rules, why is grabbing and dropping animals?

I can throw terrorbirds with an equus and lasso over your walls, why not with a kapro?

I wish offline protection would only protect buildings, and not tamed animals. That way people still would have to build a proper base and wouldn't leave their dinos everywhere. You wouldn't be able to put offline protected dinos in other peoples bases and block them forever. 

I can't protect tames in the wild if anyone else has built there. it would be great to pick up whatever I find and bring it home to tame, instead of sitting there for hours and killing wild threats. 

 

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In past, Kiting was a huge issue on my Legacy server. This eventually brewed into verbal and written conflict between Person A and Person B. 

After some time and many reports of both people to WC a dev addressed the situation. From my understanding he/she said that Kiting is just a part of the game. 

Personally, I wish they didn't remove land dinos having the ability to pick up other land dinos, along with that I wish we could lift wild tames. This would remove the aspect of a plain Behemoth Gate base, adding a use to making a large inside area to store dinos.

In all, I see that the offline raid protection AND the ability to not pick up land dinos with other land dinos being a small part overkill. Yes, without raid protection and with the ability to pick up wild dinos kiting would be a large issue, but this would alter the way people play the game.

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IMO offline protection should now mean that picking up wild tames would not be an issue. of course its a lot more inventive to be able to tame in the wild.

I've been wiped 3 times on SE before OLRP, and before anyone says "well you should have kept them in a building or on neutral" I was kited over night by 8 100+ golems. lost 10 gigas on neutral, 15 wyverns, 3 of my own golems and a load of egg layers, I was only a solo player on SE, the rest of the tribe were island based.

I'm still 100% behind the OLRP, the amount of times we use to get a new person join the server and suddenly announce in chat "hi all, I'm going to wipe all your bases" and within hours 3 tribes are kicking off because they're being wiped in PVE.

I think a bunch of idiots some where in WC cant grasp the concept of PVE being player versus the environment  and not PVT being player versus trolls. the whole point of people playing PVE is so that they can get away from the toxic enviros of PVP.

IMHO people who kite on PVE are failed PVP players who couldn't handle that aspect of the game

 

EDIT:

 

PVE is already a pain with behemoth gates lagging out entire areas, imagine how bad it would be with metal behemoths and the rendering of reflections etc

or the amount of rusting buildings that will be an eye-sore or rendering in painted buildings, I'm getting a nervous twitch just thinking about it lol

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5 hours ago, Weiss said:

I wish offline protection would only protect buildings, and not tamed animals. That way people still would have to build a proper base and wouldn't leave their dinos everywhere. You wouldn't be able to put offline protected dinos in other peoples bases and block them forever. 

So... you want to kill player tames? Or is it that you want everyone to have boxes, instead of ranches? I play PvE... this dino blocking thing? Not really a big thing going on, as far as I see.  Oh sure... I bet it does happen here and there... but the golem trains and logging in to  find your whole stash of unboxed Dinos being dead... yeah, that's over. Seems pretty good.

See, on my SE server... I have a ranch. A few small buildings with a few walls, double railings and a couple of gates on either side. Nice. Open air. Pretty views. I'm not lagging over wagging tails, or slowing things down with 100 wall/ceiling renders. It's very southwestern cool.

You way would make that impossible as I would have to then account for player versus me interventions on that LARGE scale.

So... no.

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5 minutes ago, Ganelon said:

So... you want to kill player tames? Or is it that you want everyone to have boxes, instead of ranches? I play PvE... this dino blocking thing? Not really a big thing going on, as far as I see.  Oh sure... I bet it does happen here and there... but the golem trains and logging in to  find your whole stash of unboxed Dinos being dead... yeah, that's over. Seems pretty good.

See, on my SE server... I have a ranch. A few small buildings with a few walls, double railings and a couple of gates on either side. Nice. Open air. Pretty views. I'm not lagging over wagging tails, or slowing things down with 100 wall/ceiling renders. It's very southwestern cool.

You way would make that impossible as I would have to then account for player versus me interventions on that LARGE scale.

So... no.

No he's saying that he wants Dino pickup enableed so he can carry things home and tame them,  he thinks trolls won't be able to grief anymore because they can only drop stuff in your Base when you are online and one neutral Dino could stop them as the things that can be picked up are weak.

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1 hour ago, SmokeyB said:

No he's saying that he wants Dino pickup enableed so he can carry things home and tame them,  he thinks trolls won't be able to grief anymore because they can only drop stuff in your Base when you are online and one neutral Dino could stop them as the things that can be picked up are weak.

If that's what he's saying, that is also kind of my stance. I also have an open ranch base. I got tired of walls from legacy and trying a more scenic approach in the new servers. 

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6 hours ago, SmokeyB said:

No he's saying that he wants Dino pickup enableed so he can carry things home and tame them,  he thinks trolls won't be able to grief anymore because they can only drop stuff in your Base when you are online and one neutral Dino could stop them as the things that can be picked up are weak.

Okay... can kinda dig that, however... I'd still be against it as the unintended consequence would likely be 'troll' gangs dropping, not one... not two... but 10 or more dinos at one time.

So, yeah... I could have dinos on neutral... but say they drop 10 dire wolves in?

As much as I'd like pickup, cuz it would enhance my game to be able to do so... I can see what would happen otherwise. At least with kiting, there are some logistical headaches that discourage it on mass.

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4 minutes ago, Ganelon said:

Okay... can kinda dig that, however... I'd still be against it as the unintended consequence would likely be 'troll' gangs dropping, not one... not two... but 10 or more dinos at one time.

So, yeah... I could have dinos on neutral... but say they drop 10 dire wolves in?

As much as I'd like pickup, cuz it would enhance my game to be able to do so... I can see what would happen otherwise. At least with kiting, there are some logistical headaches that discourage it on mass.

True,  give people an inch and they take a mile,  people can't have nice things because they abuse them.  Yeah you are right Dino pickup is a no go on pve as it would make everyone need to make pvp style bases and that's against the spirit of pve 

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12 hours ago, Weiss said:

Kiting seems to not be against the rules, why is grabbing and dropping animals?

I can throw terrorbirds with an equus and lasso over your walls, why not with a kapro?

I wish offline protection would only protect buildings, and not tamed animals. That way people still would have to build a proper base and wouldn't leave their dinos everywhere. You wouldn't be able to put offline protected dinos in other peoples bases and block them forever. 

I can't protect tames in the wild if anyone else has built there. it would be great to pick up whatever I find and bring it home to tame, instead of sitting there for hours and killing wild threats. 

 

I agree 100%.

On the SE server i play at, I have seen people abuse ORP to raise baby wyverns in the dunes. Outside, next to a crappy wood shack. Unprotected.

It takes 0 effort to build now and frankly is unrewarding.

Back to the topic, I agree that offline raid protection renders the land grabbing ban obsolete, and all this does is remove the utility off amazing dinos like megalosaurus which are lacking without it.

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So... you want to kill player tames? Or is it that you want everyone to have boxes, instead of ranches? I play PvE... this dino blocking thing? Not really a big thing going on, as far as I see.  Oh sure... I bet it does happen here and there... but the golem trains and logging in to  find your whole stash of unboxed Dinos being dead... yeah, that's over. Seems pretty good.
See, on my SE server... I have a ranch. A few small buildings with a few walls, double railings and a couple of gates on either side. Nice. Open air. Pretty views. I'm not lagging over wagging tails, or slowing things down with 100 wall/ceiling renders. It's very southwestern cool.
You way would make that impossible as I would have to then account for player versus me interventions on that LARGE scale.
So... no.
Yeah love the open air natural Beauty aspect of pve it's the main reason I play pve. Creativity plus. I'd drop dinosaur in people's bases all day if they built on a beaver spawns or were trolling other players so I assume trolls troll would do it to me too.
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7 hours ago, Ganelon said:

Okay... can kinda dig that, however... I'd still be against it as the unintended consequence would likely be 'troll' gangs dropping, not one... not two... but 10 or more dinos at one time.

So, yeah... I could have dinos on neutral... but say they drop 10 dire wolves in?

As much as I'd like pickup, cuz it would enhance my game to be able to do so... I can see what would happen otherwise. At least with kiting, there are some logistical headaches that discourage it on mass.

 Completely agree here.

id love dino pick up, can avoid that stupid run away mechanic for taming etc etc, but iv seen far too many instances of ppl kiting dinos let alone how far it could be abused with carry enabled,

as someone whos on island AND on se, island i have giant stone walls cos idiots kite titan, and SE its metal walls cos, golems.... dread to think how much more pvp my bases would need to be if it was allowed to just drop carnos in..

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I had a very long back and forth with a GM over a factually proven and screenshot of them admitting that they deliberately kited golems to offline raid on SE PVE Official. The GM said "We will take no action" to which I requested he ask the dev team to give PvE offline raid protection....months later...we have it. I think it is needed and I am glad we have it. 

I think the game would be far more fun for all if we had active GM instead of offline raid protection and that would could also pick up dinos provided they enforce/punish those who abuse it to grief. I, and my guess is over 80% of long term PvE players, would happily pay $3/month for active GM moderation (like under 48hr response times and immediate responses for things that are time sensitive) on the official servers. Not to mention there are many proven systems of providing FREE-UNPAID/VOLUNTEER GM's  at no cost to them. 

Bottom line is WC refuses to take proper ownership of their own public servers. They are not willing to support the players enough to moderate and discourage griefing. They are 99% PvP focused and as an after thought will adjust things ...somewhat....to help reduce PvE griefing....after months and...months...and months....half a year of thought. 

So we NEED offline protection. and if flyers are ever allowed to pick up wild dinos it will be the same huge issue it was back when they realized it should not be allowed...only worse cause of the increased population and diversity of players including the increase in number of gamers who love to grief. Anyone who thinks it would not be an issue did not have to deal with it when it was (most likely).

 

 

Water dino grab? I actually do not see any reason why in PVE we can't do that. I am sure there are some cases where griefers could grab wild water dinos and deposit them inside other players water pens.....but nothing that any or all (on neutral of course) could not dispatch.

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While I am in support of building defenses (plantx, turrets, buffer chambers) to detract from griefers and kiting, I understand not everyone wants that. A lot of people wish to build something nice looking and turret towers/defensive designs would take away from that.

 

Also, not sure if this was mentioned, but unlocking land mount grabs still opens up potential for aerial trolling. Mega grabs something, use a quetz to grab the mega, and essentially you are back at the same issue that caused flyer carry to be disabled on pve.

Imo, there is no real winning scenario aside from enabling it all and encouraging building good base defenses. 

I honestly wish pve was sort of a pseudo-pvp mode anyway, like no damaging bases and dinos but player vs player still open. There is much to Ark that pve generally has no use for. 

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13 minutes ago, Sh4rk said:

While I am in support of building defenses (plantx, turrets, buffer chambers) to detract from griefers and kiting, I understand not everyone wants that. A lot of people wish to build something nice looking and turret towers/defensive designs would take away from that.

 

Also, not sure if this was mentioned, but unlocking land mount grabs still opens up potential for aerial trolling. Mega grabs something, use a quetz to grab the mega, and essentially you are back at the same issue that caused flyer carry to be disabled on pve.

Imo, there is no real winning scenario aside from enabling it all and encouraging building good base defenses. 

I honestly wish pve was sort of a pseudo-pvp mode anyway, like no damaging bases and dinos but player vs player still open. There is much to Ark that pve generally has no use for. 

I appreciate this angle of the discussion. but it raises a question, why allow kiting gigas golems and such to be so easy then? that process of getting on a megalosaur and grabbing... what a raptor or at worse a megalania? and getting a second guy to fly you over with a quetzal to drop it in... it just seems... more of a hassle than the griefing options available that WC themselves have endorsed by saying they allow kiting.

I never got around to testing it, but I also heard that you can no longer grab a dino and be standing on a quetzal platform while doing so

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They could just make it so that you can only grab non aggressive dinos... best of both worlds and it doesn't matter how many hundreds of dinos they pick up and drop into your base, if they're not aggressive they won't kill your dinos. it doesn't fully solve the problem on either side, but the only way to do that is for GMs to enforce and punish griefers, which they don't.

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1 hour ago, Jonais said:

They could just make it so that you can only grab non aggressive dinos... best of both worlds and it doesn't matter how many hundreds of dinos they pick up and drop into your base, if they're not aggressive they won't kill your dinos. it doesn't fully solve the problem on either side, but the only way to do that is for GMs to enforce and punish griefers, which they don't.

Non aggressive dinos can be made to be aggressive with the exception of a very few like dodos and moschops.

And TheStrip I think you are think far too small scale. If picking up dinos was made possible then it would enable trolls to drop multiple dinos...not just one. You might think on e raptor is easily dealt with...how about a hundred? A tribe with say 5 members could drop 5 dinos in your base every 5 minutes....and the dinos will just respawn....so do you want to spend your day wondering if the raptors continually raining down on your base are something you should pay attention to....or maybe you would rather play the game...go farm or mine stuff...

 

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13 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

Non aggressive dinos can be made to be aggressive with the exception of a very few like dodos and moschops.

And TheStrip I think you are think far too small scale. If picking up dinos was made possible then it would enable trolls to drop multiple dinos...not just one. You might think on e raptor is easily dealt with...how about a hundred? A tribe with say 5 members could drop 5 dinos in your base every 5 minutes....and the dinos will just respawn....so do you want to spend your day wondering if the raptors continually raining down on your base are something you should pay attention to....or maybe you would rather play the game...go farm or mine stuff...

 

Non aggressive dinos only become aggressive when you attack them, and they are only aggressive toward the person who attacked, so someone could drop 100 stegos in a person's yard, but those stegos would just clutter up the yard. It would be annoying for sure, but that's not much different than if they just kited them to the front of their base and left them at the wall. Chances are they would despawn as well unless the troll stayed within render range.

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Fact is, when the golem became the new wipe a base workshop for pve and all they said was it was part of the game, build better that's the exact moment any reason for saying grabbing shouldn't be allowed went out the window. If a wild golem being led to your base is considered the same thing as it randomly finding it's way, then the same could be said for the example posted earlier about wolves. 10 wolves can find the base just as much as a never moving unless aggro'd rock golem... Or a alpha wyvern that only spawns in the scar..

My vote is bring back grabbing.

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