Server Dino Cap Discussion

[TheDonn]

1 minute ago, Palenor said:

Name one for me, please. I have looked and not found one yet.

 

A friend plays on EU 44 island.  Constantly says its at cap.  Constantly.

Your turn.  Provide citations maybe?  Or is it a guess that they are higher?

[Kruemel]

6 minutes ago, Palenor said:

Name one for me, please. I have looked and not found one yet.

 

79 also on/off cap

[bigfishrob]

The solution for dino caps....kite titans, wyverns, and golems until eggs start hatching....i think it is inteded method of the game.....

[Midnight_]

WC does NOT pay for servers at the rate we (consumers) do. They may not even pay ANY money at all for the servers they have. They may well have deals with Nitrado to trade services and or advertising.

That screenshot above is not in the proper context for this thread.

[Midnight_]

45 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

The solution for dino caps....kite titans, wyverns, and golems until eggs start hatching....i think it is inteded method of the game.....

In no way shape or form is this a solution. This actually just better supports the thread in my sig on how griefing jerks are STILL allowed to play PvP in a PvE game mode....and therefore there is no real PvE in Ark. Very sad that you would identify this as a solution.

[Jacira]

1 hour ago, Palenor said:

Name one for me, please. I have looked and not found one yet.

 

are you kidding?

Island 97 is capped every day for a month now. Also the second OC island server bounces on and off cap constantly. These are just the two servers in my region I have knowledge about. I'm sure there are more, as stated above....

You obviously haven't checked very hard 

[Midnight_]

1 hour ago, Palenor said:

Name one for me, please. I have looked and not found one yet.

 

LOL better yet. Name any that are not. they wont stay that way long....especially if you identify them here.

 

Also just because a server loses "capped" status for a min...and hour or even a day, it is still "dino capped". On and off capped server are "dino capped". I think to lose that status they need to be uncapped for at least a week. Other wise it is just a temporay state of not being dino capped due to transfer, timed out tribe (that quit....likely cause of the cap), Or a tribe culling so they can tame/breed.

[TheDonn]

2 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

In no way shape or form is this a solution. This actually just better supports the thread in my sig on how griefing jerks are STILL allowed to play PvP in a PvE game mode....and therefore there is no real PvE in Ark. Very sad that you would identify this as a solution.

A griefer on our server does that, and then brags about doing it saying "i free'd up tameslots, you are welcome."  And after submitting screenies of him kiting (showing his name and steam name clear as day through a spyglass) and his global-chat confession of doing it, he is still online every day, bragging about griefing.

This is what the tamecap is causing.  Collateral damages...  It incentivizes griefing players, because the tamecap is so persistant and the response to a well-documented griefing attack is ignored.  I am not trying to make this thread about griefing, but the guy that @Midnight_ was responding to brings up yet another reason why the tamecap needs to be addressed:  It would mean less tickets for support to deal with because of griefer attacks in the tamecapped climate of Ark we now play in.

[Brent93]

2 hours ago, TheDonn said:

A griefer on our server does that, and then brags about doing it saying "i free'd up tameslots, you are welcome."  And after submitting screenies of him kiting (showing his name and steam name clear as day through a spyglass) and his global-chat confession of doing it, he is still online every day, bragging about griefing.

This is what the tamecap is causing.  Collateral damages...  It incentivizes griefing players, because the tamecap is so persistant and the response to a well-documented griefing attack is ignored.  I am not trying to make this thread about griefing, but the guy that @Midnight_ was responding to brings up yet another reason why the tamecap needs to be addressed:  It would mean less tickets for support to deal with because of griefer attacks in the tamecapped climate of Ark we now play in.

Kiting dinos around ain't a offense that can get someone ban. And just build a better perimeter, build metal and put a few plant x and you're good. 

I think PVE should turn to PVP for a period of time if a server gets capped. But to help out the little guys only the tribes with like 3/5 tribe cap is changed to this. That might straighen everything out.

[Midnight_]

3 hours ago, Brent93 said:

Kiting dinos around ain't a offense that can get someone ban. And just build a better perimeter, build metal and put a few plant x and you're good. 

I think PVE should turn to PVP for a period of time if a server gets capped. But to help out the little guys only the tribes with like 3/5 tribe cap is changed to this. That might straighen everything out.

NO! People do not play PvE so that they can play PvP...even for a day.

If the devs actually did what you said then any server could be made dino capped so that it would turn pvp just because One guy hates another guy for talking about breeding lystros cause he thinks that is stupid and then they argued in global and now he has to show him who is boss so he gets friends from multipule servers to send dinos in and come in and tame 1000 dodos....bla bla bla......one of a million possible examples why that is a bad idea. You might as well just say "PvE can't work. Just turn everything to PvP."

Just NO!

Any idea that supports griefing (using exploits to take PvP action on PvE servers) or that suggests turning PvE servers into PvP has no place here. Those are NOT solutions. PvP servers do NOT have issues with dino cap. If you like that then play there.

Solutions like finding ways to encourage less 1 or 2 man tribes, and encourage more multi member tribes (like 4+) IS a good idea and possible solution. Keep the solutions away from praying on the weak or inexperienced. 

People are attacking each other in a vigilante attempt to open tame slots and they are praying on the weak and inexperienced players. Others here say "Just do this..." or "Just build that..." like it solves the griefing issue. It  does not. Cause you are telling people in this forum the solution. People who already know the solution and have already protected against griefing. It does not solve the griefing issue.

Anyone here who suggest griefing is an answer of any kind are just horrible people who like to pray on the weak and inexperienced.

PvE is about working TOGETHER, you know Players (all of us in all tribes) against the environment (anything that is NOT another player). THAT is PvE. If you like praying on weak (small tribes) and inexperienced (new players) then PvP is where you need to go. (Yes I know PvP is not only small tribes and new players, don't misunderstand or twist what I meant.)

The answer to the dino cap issue is not something that players can fix. Don't put that pressure on yourselves. No matter what you try to fix the problem it won't work. The only people who can fix it are the ones who have chosen not to...for whatever reason. Wild Card. There is speculation that WC is waiting it out and hoping the problem will fix itself. Like maybe when Aberration releases in a few days. I personally think that will only make things worse. I personally do not see a fix other than more servers being added. Might be a lack of imagination on my part. Who knows. All I know is a change needs to happen and killing peoples dinos that they spent time and effort taming or breeding is NOT the answer.

 

[Ranger1]

Just to reinforce the point made above, using the natural hazards and wildlife extant on an official PVE server via indirect methods is not considered griefing, nor is it in violation of the official PVE server rules.  Cooperation is certainly an option for an official PVE servers population, but so is aggressive competition (short of a direct attack).

If the rules on official PVE servers are not to your taste other PVE options are available.

[Midnight_]

1 hour ago, Ranger1 said:

Just to reinforce the point made above, using the natural hazards and wildlife extant on an official PVE server via indirect methods is not considered griefing, nor is it in violation of the official PVE server rules. 

It IS griefing whether or not it is acknowledged as griefing by the devs. While in a game mode labeled Player verses Environment, you use any means to hinder or harm another player you ARE griefing them.

No the devs have made it quite clear they will do nothing about kiting wild dinos. Clearly there are no rules against it. There should be. The vast majority play PvE to get away from PvP. Kiting wild dinos to your "enemy" is a PvP tactic that players fighting players use.....

1 hour ago, Ranger1 said:

Cooperation is certainly an option for an official PVE servers population, but so is aggressive competition (short of a direct attack).

You are talking about PvP here......aggressive competition......

Are you as a moderator telling us Wild Cards official stance is that PvP in PvE is encouraged and/or expected? let's not beat around the bush.

Are they going to be more honest then and change it to PvEvP?

1 hour ago, Ranger1 said:

If the rules on official PVE servers are not to your taste other PVE options are available.

You are telling me that I should quit ark or go play unofficial as a solution. Or "innocently" letting me know those are option as I must not have considered them myself.

Is this a suggestion that I should not express my opinion if I don't like things they way they are? Is making suggestions of rules changes to make the game more fun not ok here? As a customer do I not have the right to speak out if I think things should be different? 

It is one thing for anyone else to say what you did. But you a moderator said this. Should you have? Are you speaking officially for WC with what you said? Or is that just your opinion that in a PvE game mode gamers should be encouraged to be at each others throats? 

Why are we discussing what PvE is, should be, or how the devs envision it here anyway?????? Is that going to uncap the servers?

[lupus142]

they should reduce the amount of tamed dino per tribe and also release new servers so we're not all cramed into a few servers

[lupus142]

Quote

Solutions like finding ways to encourage less 1 or 2 man tribes, and encourage more multi member tribes (like 4+) IS a good idea and possible solution. Keep the solutions away from praying on the weak or inexperienced. 

Why should small tribes be blamed. I was a solo player on official thankfully some friends joined me but if i were to invite people to my tribe you can get some proper sausages join or people who just want to demolish stuff or steal mats. if the people playing this game wern't so toxic maybe people would tribe up. Not saying everyones a sausage who plays but there are a lot, i found that the people of official 42 are quite a nice bunch but i have seen trusting people let people into they're tribe and wake up the next day with nothing.

[yekrucifixion187]

2 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

Are they going to be more honest then and change it to PvEvP?

Since warring a tribe in PVE is an option (even if both sides have to agree to it) it actually already is kind of PVEVP.

5 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

The answer to the dino cap issue is not something that players can fix. Don't put that pressure on yourselves. No matter what you try to fix the problem it won't work.

This mindset is part of the reason we reach dino cap. 

I'm not blaming people for taming and breeding as they are core mechanics of the game as you have stated numerous times. I'm also saying Wildcard is at fault for not providing enough servers to handle what people want on a game or not providing servers powerful enough to handle a larger population. I also blame Wildcard for allowing an unnecessary tribe tame limit, not making servers truly 70/70 rather than 120+ tribes sharing the same server. 

Still this statement of yours sounds like someone who just needs to tame that 14th griffin or raise that 16th Wyvern. It's allowed but it is also unnecessary. Not everything allowed should be necessary or deemed appropriate. you have just stated this yourself by saying even though kiting wild animals is allowed it shouldn't be done. I agree, just as raising 16 Wyvern's is an unnecessary thing to do. 

I must admit, you had a previous post as well as this one that said you shouldn't be considered selfish for wanting to tame and breed because that is a large part of the game and it did relieve a bit of guilt on my part when I flew around the map one day and seen several of the larger tribes on our server with 200-300+ dino's still hoarding level 170 Rex's (despite having 40+ rex's over 280) or having 20+ wyvern's. It allowed me to open back up my other passion projects of breeding a super Thorny Dragon and a super Mammoth and get my Anky's and Argy programs back on track. However I know that when we hit tame cap again, it's going to be partially my fault and when we hit tame cap again I could of helped prevent it as we had been. So yes we as a community can fix it if we relegate some of what we want to do in the meanwhile. Space it out. You want to do Bosses with Theri's, Rex's, Anky's, whatever. You don't have to do them all at once. Hell it is probably more efficient if you focus on one and get it where you want, complete the goal and then direct your attention to the next. 

I was starting to feel a little bit of that survivor's guilt again this morning until i seen in chat, one of the large tribes bragging about taming a 145 Parasaur. She who has 16+ griffins, blocks off access points, kites Golem's to people who build in an area she wants. One of the many who feel the map is their own and not an official public map. See that line of thinking is indeed selfish. So I guess you just need to not care even if you know and you'll be fine until the dino cap gets reached again and then you can be the first person to scream in chat that someone needs to kill their dino's so you can tame your 17th Griffin. 

[SuperGenki]

3 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

It IS griefing whether or not it is acknowledged as griefing by the devs. While in a game mode labeled Player verses Environment, you use any means to hinder or harm another player you ARE griefing them.

No the devs have made it quite clear they will do nothing about kiting wild dinos. Clearly there are no rules against it. There should be. The vast majority play PvE to get away from PvP. Kiting wild dinos to your "enemy" is a PvP tactic that players fighting players use.....

You are talking about PvP here......aggressive competition......

Are you as a moderator telling us Wild Cards official stance is that PvP in PvE is encouraged and/or expected? let's not beat around the bush.

Are they going to be more honest then and change it to PvEvP?

You are telling me that I should quit ark or go play unofficial as a solution. Or "innocently" letting me know those are option as I must not have considered them myself.

Is this a suggestion that I should not express my opinion if I don't like things they way they are? Is making suggestions of rules changes to make the game more fun not ok here? As a customer do I not have the right to speak out if I think things should be different? 

It is one thing for anyone else to say what you did. But you a moderator said this. Should you have? Are you speaking officially for WC with what you said? Or is that just your opinion that in a PvE game mode gamers should be encouraged to be at each others throats? 

Why are we discussing what PvE is, should be, or how the devs envision it here anyway?????? Is that going to uncap the servers?

The point is kiting is a basic mechanic of the aggressive dino AI, so it is difficult to regulate. It's not as obvious as say foundation spamming or parking dinos to block you into your base/out of caves. It's up to you to protect your pixels from the environment whether it was moved to you by another player or not. Also to communicate and cooperate where possible with the other survivors on your server.

[Ranger1]

7 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

You are talking about PvP here......aggressive competition......

Most PVE multiplayer games allow you to compete against other players to one degree or another, ranging from undermining their efforts in a variety of ways to undercutting them on a market.  According to your definition literally any competitive action would render the game mode PVP... which is fine if that's what you want for your PVE experience, but you won't find that on official PVE servers.

8 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

It is one thing for anyone else to say what you did. But you a moderator said this. Should you have? Are you speaking officially for WC with what you said? Or is that just your opinion that in a PvE game mode gamers should be encouraged to be at each others throats? 

I don't work for WC, and my opinions are my own.  That being said, I haven't written anything that WC hasn't already pointed out numerous times.

8 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

You are telling me that I should quit ark or go play unofficial as a solution.

I never told you to quit ARK.  I told you official PVE servers don't, and likely won't, meet your specific preferences... but that provisions have already been made so that you can play multiplayer PVE in a fashion much closer to your preferences.

8 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

Why are we discussing what PvE is, should be, or how the devs envision it here anyway?????? Is that going to uncap the servers?

My post was in direct response to points you have brought up repeatedly in this thread.  If you feel these points are off topic, stop bringing them up here.

[Midnight_]

Lol. well Put @Ranger1. Going to have to admit that my "over" response to you was due to sleep deprivation as I am taking advantage of this 2x weekend to a big degree: lots of metal, obsidian, and meat haresting. raising 18 rexes. I was tired and not clear headed and I DEFINITELY read much more into your post than you clearly intended. I do apologize for that.

 

5 hours ago, Ranger1 said:

According to your definition literally any competitive action would render the game mode PVP... 

Correct. The competitiveness that I think is appropriate for PvE is who can get big the fastest. Build the coolest (non box) bases. On my servers I successfully encourage folks to compete making the nicest looking and useful public structures. Examples are one guy made a "tavern" as he calls it on my SE map that is designed for new players. Anything that can be made for public use is there and it has a very safe metal fence protecting it from golems and all other land predators. Another is a "prison" that was built for "encouraging" griefers to hang out in if they were bad (obviously has to be self imposing prison). And various other public bases in newby areas to help new players get started, SE is harsh for new players.

Other areas of appropriate competitiveness (in my opinion) are getting to tek the fastest. Building in tek. Breeding!!!! Getting the coolest rarest mutations and stats, especially boss rexes and boss theris, and boss sloths (megatheriums).

Stuff like that. There IS competition in that. 

Doing anything for the sole purpose of ruining anothers game experience such as taking direct or indirect action to kill dinos owned by other tribes or destroy the bases they built.....those things are PvP and I feel have no place in PvE.

Most if not all survivors who play PvE do so because they do not enjoy the PvP experience. Many feel they are "safe" on PvE until someone griefs them by killing dinos and/or destroying bases. 

So yes I think the idea of "making PvE - PVP for a day" is absurd. The idea of "the devs put kiting in the game to help control the dino cap" is absurd. Players exploited that mechanic after the fact. And the devs have since made MANY changes to make it difficult, hard or even impossible to use some dinos for griefing. Pretty clear kiting to grief other players (in PvE anyway) is not something that is intended. It is just an inherent part of the mechanic. Would be pretty lame if rexes never chased anyone....that is the allure of the initial, and if I may say AWESOME, Ark trailer.  However the devs have (thus far) looked at PvE kiting tickets and responded with...."Meh, lets let them do that for now". I think it is more likely they just don't want to submit the manpower to for policing that rather than an intended game mechanic.

 

Yes this specific thing is a very sore spot for me. I have spent many hours helping others "fight off" griefers and I just do not feel that PvE players should have to do that. I will stop ranting about it....

[Midnight_]

10 hours ago, SuperGenki said:

The point is kiting is a basic mechanic of the aggressive dino AI, so it is difficult to regulate. 

Yes no argument.

10 hours ago, SuperGenki said:

It's not as obvious as say foundation spamming or parking dinos to block you into your base/out of caves. 

Correct. the problem I have with WC is that when you are able to provide irrefutable proof of kiting for griefing. And (in my case) even when you catch the perpetrators admitting in global they did it....WC responds with "We will take no action" and they will tell you silly things like "build higher walls" even though your walls were behemoth gate high. (it is possible to get dinos over walls....even golems....not going into how...)

[ausYenLoWang]

does anyone ACTUALLY think the kibble rework when it happens will reduce the number of dinos on server? honestly?

there is no way, that the entire server is logging on and just slaughtering those dinos, NONE.

im already seeing tribes breeding dodos where they can and using THOSE as bargaining chips in trade, "ill giv eyou 2000 ingots and 20 dodos for XXXX item"

those dinos in the kibble farms will remain until their owner needs to hatch something and needs to kill something off, OR they trade them for items/dinos they want.

[Ranger1]

5 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

Lol. well Put @Ranger1. Going to have to admit that my "over" response to you was due to sleep deprivation as I am taking advantage of this 2x weekend to a big degree: lots of metal, obsidian, and meat haresting. raising 18 rexes. I was tired and not clear headed and I DEFINITELY read much more into your post than you clearly intended. I do apologize for that.

Thanks for that, and especially thanks for relaxing a bit.  It's appreciated!

The server you play on is what I would consider to be an ideal PVE server, well done.  Relaxing, creative, fun game play.  The older I get the more I enjoy flexing those creative muscles and the less I enjoy spraying digital testosterone over my imaginary territory.

The problem is PVE game play can cover a lot more ground than just that, and the game needs to be flexible enough to handle a more competitive atmosphere in PVE play... which can lead to issues if some of the population wants that and the rest don't.  There is also the issue (that you have already acknowledged) of keeping the environment / creatures at least somewhat dangerous, which opens the door to using them in clever (and sometimes infuriating) ways.  The only way to curtail that behavior would be by direct GM intervention, and I think it's pretty fair to say that WC doesn't have the manpower that would require.

I bring this up because it relates to the tame cap.  Ideally, on a server such as the one you are playing on, the cap would be acknowledged as a necessary evil (to preserve server performance) and cooperation would ensue to keep the server below the cap.  This certainly can be accomplished on an official PVE server, but there is always the very real possibility that someone will arrive on the server with a very different agenda in mind.  There are a lot of folks out there (and I do mean a LOT) that have found ways to at least partially circumvent ARKS necessary restrictions for their personal advantage... and I'm not just talking about using them as an opportunity to troll their fellow players.  

Ironically this makes restrictions like the cap even more necessary, as this type of player would happily flood the server with tames until everyone's frame rate ground to a halt if they were gone... and still try to do the same even with them in place (with varying degrees of success).

So while I fully agree that the suggestion that PVE servers should have PVP periods isn't sound (beyond the already existing option to wage war on occasion), there are really only two ways to deal with this issue.  Either you move your community to an unofficial server that you trust (or one that your players chip in on hosting themselves)... or your players take every opportunity to use the aggressive options we talked about earlier to kill off some of the offending player's excessive amount of tames.

Obviously the former is preferable in almost all ways, as you have complete control over who and what is allowed on that unofficial PVE server.  However if trade with the larger community is an absolutely necessity (restricting you to an official server, and ironically being one of the main reasons why some players selfishly seek to break the dino cap), you are left with either just living with it, or using the very methods you have come to dislike so much to your advantage.

Personally I've never kited wild creatures to another's base on official PVE unless the same was done to me, I restrict destructive game play to PVP environments.  However, if I had caught someone pointedly ignoring cooperation with the rest of the server while they employed tricks to abuse the cap, I would absolutely take the steps necessary to make that enterprise a complete waste of their time.

I need to be transparent about this part though.  Currently, for what I do, I do not play on official servers.  I need a controlled environment for the videos I create.  For other players that are simply seeking to enjoy playing ARK PVE my advice (in all sincerity) is this.

Seriously consider setting up shop on your own or a friendly non-official PVE server.  More specifically, while I personally am not currently offering this option, many YouTube creators in this community offer access to their long running PVE servers in exchange for a small monthly Patreon donation.  These servers tend to be around a long time, are well run, and packed full of creative people looking to help each other with wildly imaginative projects.  Some are pure vanilla, some allow certain handy building mods, and many have a strong emphasis on creative breeding.  These are ideal environments for the type of game play you seem to enjoy, and many have server wide projects or competitions... some of which end up being popularized on YouTube.

With official PVE servers needing to allow for such a wide variety of preferences, and also needing to keep some fairly restrictive mechanics in place to prevent abuse (both unintentional and intentional), unofficial servers should be strongly considered as a viable alternative.  This is especially true if your current official PVE servers population can't agree on how to cooperatively stay under the necessary dino cap, because if folks refuse to work together in this regard the only other option is that some form of attrition has to occur.

I hope that this didn't come across as an attack on your point of view, and I'm VERY sorry for the wall of text.

[Carnage08]

Do you feel duped by WC yet?

[Vrallox]

People are calling for Player vs Player in the Player vs Environment game mode to help fix the server tame cap problem? Player vs Player competition in the Player vs Environment mode is like saying a clean room should be completely filled with contaminants.

"Why does the maternity ward only have female patients?"

If you want the game to help fix the problem then get the player of Wildcard to implement gameplay that requires people to use all their animals on a regular basis. Possibly in risky situations.

I'm pretty sure the exercise idea would help cut down the tame numbers considering it'd require attention for each and every creature a tribe wants to own.

[DarthaNyan]

2 hours ago, Vrallox said:

I'm pretty sure the exercise idea would help cut down the tame numbers considering it'd require attention for each and every creature a tribe wants to own.

Can be circumvented and automated for every rideable creature with clever building and positioning. And that would produce even MORE lag because instead of idle creatures server would have to calculate all of them perpetually moving.

[Vrallox]

30 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Can be circumvented and automated for every rideable creature with clever building and positioning. And that would produce even MORE lag because instead of idle creatures server would have to calculate all of them perpetually moving.

I never said anything about having them on wander so none of that applies. Doesn't matter how clever the building or positioning the exercise requirement wouldn't be fulfilled.

"Animals would require exercise to stay alive and stay healthy. Instead of keeping them motionless their entire existence we would need to run them around and have them get into fights. In other words, actually USE them, if we want to keep them. I suppose the requirement could be represented in bar form. It'd increase as the animals are inactive and after a certain threshold they'd start to become weaker and they'd get even weaker as the bar increased. Their maximum health decreasing as well. Once the bar is full the animal dies. Obviously it'd be a real 24-hour day or two before the bar started to fill up."

So people would need to fight with them, harvest with them, etc. Successful actions against world objects/creatures would decrease the exercise bar, not just running them around for cardio.