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Server Dino Cap Discussion


HeatherJo
Message added by Joebl0w13

This is the place to discuss the per server dino cap mechanic. It's platform independent, anybody can post here. Feel free to talk about your particular server but lists of capped servers will stay maintained in their proper platform subforums.

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15 minutes ago, flamron said:

I’m using my wallet to show my displeasure with the server caps. We capped on our rag server with the 8x charity event, then went back down, and went back up with the 3x event. We’ve floated in and out of server cap since then. 

If this was at least addressed at any point from WC since the issue arose about three weeks after launch, I would consider purchasing aberration. But I believe the same issues will arise with that map. Too few servers, overcrowded, and dino cap only a month or two down the road. 

I don’t have a great fix (lower the tribe cap again?), but it’s a stifling issue that has driven new and old players away from the game mode. I just don’t get why we can’t get any form of communication or strategy/vision from WC on the issue. 

So... events that increase breeding rates are culprits. No surprise here, to be honest. And players are constantly asking for more of these "events" and then complain about caps.
:Jerbmad:  / The solution is simple but players wont like it.

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2 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

So... events that increase breeding rates are culprits. No surprise here, to be honest. And players are constantly asking for more of these "events" and then complain about caps.

The solution is simple but players wont like it.
:Jerbmad:

Caps were hit well before any of the bigger events. All the events did was speed up the process on any servers that were behind on breeding. Our server was behind because we went through 5 weeks of constant crashes and rollbacks until they upgraded the hardware. 

So it’s not a contribution to the issue, but only expedites the issue, not cause it. 

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I don't understand why people keep clinging to the "kibble rework" as if it has anything at all to do with the dino cap issue. The only thing the kibble rework was supposed to do (and all it will actually do) is make it so that we don't have to have useless dinos sitting around that we have to maintain and all the do is eat poop and pop eggs now and then. 

If ever they do rework the kibble system the dino cap issue will NOT be affected in any significant way. If a tribe is at or near 500 and the kibble rework makes it so they can kill off 100 egg layers....they will DEFINITELY tame and/or breed another 100 dinos.  

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13 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

There is no easy fix to the problem and players are part of the reason - for every solution they will find workaround that fully or partially negates that solution.

The "solution" should be negated if it means stopping people who are playing a dinosaur taming/breeding game from taming/breeding.  

 

12 hours ago, DarthaNyan said:

So... events that increase breeding rates are culprits. No surprise here, to be honest. And players are constantly asking for more of these "events" and then complain about caps.  The solution is simple but players wont like it.

The shortage of servers is the reason.  As has been stated, taming and breeding is one of the big things we do in Ark, event or no event.

 

6 hours ago, Midnight_ said:

I don't understand why people keep clinging to the "kibble rework" as if it has anything at all to do with the dino cap issue. The only thing the kibble rework was supposed to do (and all it will actually do) is make it so that we don't have to have useless dinos sitting around that we have to maintain and all the do is eat poop and pop eggs now and then. 

If ever they do rework the kibble system the dino cap issue will NOT be affected in any significant way. If a tribe is at or near 500 and the kibble rework makes it so they can kill off 100 egg layers....they will DEFINITELY tame and/or breed another 100 dinos.  

+1

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1. Player against Player

From what i see so far people have a weird idea about the problem, and propose the most odd solutions.

The problem is not us guys, its not us taming, its not us breeding, as stated in the first lines of the game description "tame, train, breed & ride dinosaurs in a living ecosystem ".

Its the main feature of the game, so by no mean we should stop doing that as a solution, and by no mean you solve a problem that involves a restriction with more or even drastic restrictions.

The design is broken from the start, the servers are made to support 70 people at one time (emphasis on one time), which is the main flaw, as in unlimited amount of players can join build and tame on each server, i presume there are hundreds at this point on each server, if servers were limited to 70 players, and new spots to become available when someone's base would auto-decay then part of the problem would have been avoided.

You cant blame new players for taming 3 dodos and then quit/move to another server, and you cant blame big tribes for mass taming/breeding, since its game's main feature + its a must to be able to complete the end game scenario (ascension). And that is, and cant/shouldn't  be denied to anyone, the main goal of the game.

Above all this there are the caps, the 500 tames per tribe cap, which in my opinion is the only math they did right in all this, since its enough to reach/beat the end game scenario, in the case of 70 players per server leads to a server total owned dinosaurs possible of 70 x 500=35.000.

But then, they trimmed that number 5500 which is way less then it should be for the minimum amount of players per server scenario, not even considering the real scenario where hundreds of players join one server.

And this leads to all the problems, and is by no mean our job as players who bought the game to care about the required server power and all that so we can enjoy what the game promised when we bought it, its totally WC's problem.

Even more, its not our job as players to not play the game as we want so other players may play it as they want, since its not written either in game's description or in EULA that at some point we need to stop taming/breeding, or limit ourselves from taming/breeding so other players can enjoy this feature.

 

2. Aberration

Aberration new servers will not solve anything, it will be even worst, because players know now that the cap will be reached at some point and they wont be able to tame/breed, so the first thing everyone will do is reserve spots on the new servers by taming 2-300 pugs each. Leading to reaching the cap in, i presume 1-2 weeks.

 

3. Footnote

Some math in case you got me wrong when i said the 500 tribe cap was something they did good, they didn't think that number, they just put a random number that came to mind, and for the players that like to throw around new cap numbers WC style.

Considering after that they put a 20 dinos limit to the boss fights and a 50 dinos limit to the ascension.

So, some math would be to get to those 50 dinos you can bring to the ascension would be:

at least 2 dinos (presumably rexes, intentionally exculding any other dino because i'm doing the minimum setup, from who to breed those 50)

+2 dinos to make the kibble to tame them,

1 yuty,

1 daedon + 2 dinos for kibble to tame it,

30 dinos for the imprint kibble,

1 dung beetle for the advanced crops,

1 oviraptor,

1 wyvern and 1 weight quetz for quality of life,

4 dinos for wood, thatch, stone, metal,

atleast 2 dinos for exploring the ocean,

1 otter for thermal insulation when going/living north.

So in case i missed something else vital this leads to the minimum of ~100 dinos (~140 if you wanna have 1 of each creature in game too) x 70 leads to 700 (9800 for the collectors), which is still over cap not even considering that not only 70 players join 1 server.

And this is by no mean a viable scenario unless they put a dictator GM on every server would kill any dino we obtain above the threshold/outside that minimum pattern.

I find it simply stupid to even think of this, why and who would play a game under dictatorship and such harsh regulations?

 

TL:DR I'm bored at work and pissed off by the cap and some players approach to it so i wrote a wall of text for others like me.

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26 minutes ago, Quarinah said:

they trimmed that number 5500

9500*

26 minutes ago, Quarinah said:

Above all this there are the caps, the 500 tames per tribe cap, which in my opinion is the only math they did right in all this, since its enough to reach/beat the end game scenario, in the case of 70 players per server leads to a server total owned dinosaurs possible of 70 x 500=35.000.

Well, the game was not designed for 70 solo-tribes to begins with. For example, you need ~7,500 engram points to learn everything and a maxed character (level 115) has a total of ~4,200 so the minimum would be 2-players tribes. Meaning that you at least need to divide your number by 2 here if you want it to be somehow accurate according to the game multi-player design. Which is a bit less than twice the current server limit meaning that a standard tribe should ideally be 4 players: (70 / 4) * 500 = 8,750 dinos. However, I think the real problem is players that are hoarding thousands of dinos across alt accounts/characters to bypass that limit.

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13 minutes ago, invincibleqc said:

9500*

Well, the game was not designed for 70 solo-tribes to begins with. For example, you need ~7,500 engram points to learn everything and a maxed character (level 115) has a total of ~4,200 so the minimum would be 2-players tribes. Meaning that you at least need to divide your number by 2 here if you want it to be somehow accurate according to the game multi-player design. Which is a bit less than twice the current server limit meaning that a standard tribe should ideally be 4 players: (70 / 4) * 500 = 8,750 dinos. However, I think the real problem is players that are hoarding thousands of dinos across alt accounts/characters to bypass that limit.

I will continue to militate that by no mean is players fault, since they are using the game mechanics as intended and made available by the game, if they added dinos to their tribe using cheats, codes, third party softwares, if they would have gained more then the 500 dinos limit by shady means, then it would have been players fault.

Having multiple accounts means buying the game multiple times, and having more then one character is a game feature.

But to be as realistic as possible, WC are right in what they do, because they learnt something from alpha, they learnt that a year from now 80% off the accounts will stop playing, and there will be only a few tribes left on every server, and that doesn't affect them in any way because they already cashed in from those accounts, buying more servers or improving current ones on the other hand will be detrimental for them a year from now, since they will have to pay forever for almost empty servers.

Guess all good comes for those who wait?

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2 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

9500*

Well, the game was not designed for 70 solo-tribes to begins with.

Sure it is. Nowhere in the games terms of service does it require you to join with a minimum of one other player. And for engrams, they created mind wipes to enable the lone person tribe to rework their engram chart. So it’s absolutely designed for 70 solo tribes. But it’s also designed for one 70 person tribe as well. Or even a 200 person tribe. Is there a cap on the amount of people in a tribe?

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1 minute ago, flamron said:

And for engrams, they created mind wipes to enable the lone person tribe to rework their engram chart.

Once your character reaches max level (115), you can only mindwipe once and then you are stuck with your stats/engrams.

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On 2017-10-27 at 1:43 PM, xracer98 said:

Invest in a private server. You can do what you want,when you want.
Game play can be set to your liking..
We too, got sick of laggy servers, capped servers etc.
Been running a private server and taming, raising like crazy..
With the group that we play with, its a very stress free environment.

This is what I did and I am very happy about it.   10 slots nitrado server.

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18 minutes ago, flamron said:

Sure it is. Nowhere in the games terms of service does it require you to join with a minimum of one other player. And for engrams, they created mind wipes to enable the lone person tribe to rework their engram chart. So it’s absolutely designed for 70 solo tribes. But it’s also designed for one 70 person tribe as well. Or even a 200 person tribe. Is there a cap on the amount of people in a tribe?

I think he meant the servers are not design to handle that load.

imo, on the game side, that thing underperform so much, I can say its not design to handle multiple bases and hundreds of dinos pack together, regardless of server performance and regarless of how much power the unit that runs the game has.

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Here's another thing to keep in mind and i will start with a screenshot from nitrado, hope i'm allowed, else i'll remove it and anyone can use the link on the bottom of the page and check for themselves how much a year is a 70 slots server.

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.7c35f5a170b15c8be2d045572b5a8ace.jpg

Now as we can all see a 70 slots server costs 520 euros per year (i'm not implying that WC use these exact settings/servers, its just so we have something realistic to work with)

70 accounts mean 60 euros x 70 = 4200 euros one time only payment that WC gets.

If we divide these 4200 by 520 means that WC will be able to keep up a server for 8 years with 0 profit.

Considering they wanna keep half of that income, means they can keep up a server for 4 years.

 

Kinda starts to make sense why they don't do anything.

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10 minutes ago, Quarinah said:

Here's another thing to keep in mind and i will start with a screenshot from nitrado, hope i'm allowed, else i'll remove it and anyone can use the link on the bottom of the page and check for themselves how much a year is a 70 slots server.

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.7c35f5a170b15c8be2d045572b5a8ace.jpg

Now as we can all see a 70 slots server costs 520 euros per year (i'm not implying that WC use these exact settings/servers, its just so we have something realistic to work with)

70 accounts mean 60 euros x 70 = 4200 euros one time only payment that WC gets.

If we divide these 4200 by 520 means that WC will be able to keep up a server for 8 years with 0 profit.

Considering they wanna keep half of that income, means they can keep up a server for 4 years.

 

Kinda starts to make sense why they don't do anything.

If WC had any common sense during the negotiations with Nitrado, they bargained for a much better rate, and may even be profiting off of people renting servers from Nitrado for ARK. You’ve also go to think that Nitrado is making money off of that price as well, so figure anywhere from 30 (way low end) to 100% profit built into that number. So the cost structure for WC is significantly different than a single user buying a server as they get to deal in bulk/volume which drives costs down. 

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1 hour ago, invincibleqc said:

Once your character reaches max level (115), you can only mindwipe once and then you are stuck with your stats/engrams.

At level 100 I still have most of my engram points unused. With blueprints I just don't need to spend many points. Only real reason to use a mindwipe is to reset stats and I haven't done that in over a year thanks to having a well-rounded character.

Right now the tribe system is just absolutely horrible. There's no real incentive to having multiple people in a tribe in PvE and the game is actually pushing people away from inviting others. Such a shame. If people would group up into tribes more it'd help servers avoid hitting the tame cap.

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23 minutes ago, Vrallox said:

At level 100 I still have most of my engram points unused. With blueprints I just don't need to spend many points. Only real reason to use a mindwipe is to reset stats and I haven't done that in over a year thanks to having a well-rounded character.

Right now the tribe system is just absolutely horrible. There's no real incentive to having multiple people in a tribe in PvE and the game is actually pushing people away from inviting others. Such a shame. If people would group up into tribes more it'd help servers avoid hitting the tame cap.

I'm on board with this. I mindwiped once going 99 to 100 and did a bunch of BP crafting. I had done a ton of farming to get the materials needed for those BP's. Then I mindwiped again to get the character that suits what I am doing. I see mention of the last 15 levels once ascension has been reached but to be honest I don't know if I'd stick around for those last 15 levels. I mean you beat the main boss, the other bosses, what else is their to prove/do at that point other than run the same boss over and over? (last part is of course PVE oriented as in PVP destroying server after server would give you additional tasks)

The idea of inviting someone to a tribe is a very risky proposition. Even with all the controls they have in place as @Vrallox has detailed and I have said, they can still just destroy everything you worked for by using explosives and killing the tames. I have an alliance member who I kind of want to invite to the tribe but maybe he is a super patient troll (I don't think he is but it's a possibility) plus alliance has a lot of benefits considering, on PVE anyway not sure about PVP, you can't harm each other or each other's tames but can get Daedon healing and Yuty buff so running caves and fighting boss battles and just daily activities really benefits an alliance more outside of xp gain. 

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10 hours ago, invincibleqc said:

9500* 

I highly doubt that is an accurate figure.  Since the days of the new official tamecap, we have understood that the tamecap for servers is 5500.  If that is not right, please provide a reference for saying the tamecap is nearly double what the community understands it to be.

https://ark.gamepedia.com/204.0

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OK SO:  Newest tactic to keep servers controlled, it seems. 

You can't transfer fertilized eggs. 

I've tried for 2 cooldowns of the transfer timer, and there is apparently a scrubber-check in the cooldown-removal system of the transfer timer.  If the scrubber detects that it is an egg, it resets its timer at the 40-second mark. 

I got to the oby and checked an egg I was trying to take to a server to incubate down.  It had only 1 minute on transfer timer because while I was running around in base (about 20 minutes before I made it to the oby) I picked the egg up early to combat the transfer timer, so I got lucky.  After waiting 2-3 minutes, I went back to the terminal and the egg had ~31 minutes worth of a timer.

I did this with other things in my inventory as well, a few berries and fiber.  At the 40-second mark, the berries and fiber dropped their cooldowns and the egg gained 31 minutes.  This is after sitting in my inventory for at least 35 minutes.

My tribemates and allies have all found the same thing.  I will do more testing to try and add evidence, but as it stands now, I can't transfer fertilized eggs off of this tamecapped server.

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On 10/27/2017 at 10:57 AM, HeatherJo said:

If you are New or looking to try Ragnarok on official here’s just a helpful hint that will save you loads of time...don’t bother.

Ragnarok has the potentential to be a great map but unfortunately like most of ark it is overloaded with issues.  The map is unfinished, the map is broke, Dino mechanics are broke, Dino spawns are broke, the lag is beyond Rediculous, with every new update crashes become worse, now there is dashboarding 20 plus times a day which didn’t even exist on our server before the  last update.  Then after you fight through all that mentioned above just to try and be able to play the game and try to enjoy it, sorry your server is now capped.  So after thousands of hours invested too bad so sad your game is now done.  

So what’s  the point in playing, you can’t tame anything. You can’t raise anything  all your efforts and and work are completely useless.  After just months most Ragnarok servers are now dead servers. I guess you could pack up and move, but with idiotic OB timers and just the general headache of moving that’s pointless.  Besides didn’t we just do that when they shut down our servers with the promise of new servers?  So the answer is just keep migrating lol I think not.  How about actually releasing new servers to accommodate the amount of people playing.  How about forget new content like Aberration and actually fix the  exisng content you just released broke and unfinished a few months back that has now become obsolete.  

So what, wildcards answer is to just release broken new content every few months so we can bounce around endlessly getting nowhere.  Sounds silly to me.  I would actually like to play the game, tame things, raise Dino’s, fight bosses, ascend, but none of that is really possible.  On our server we basically sit around and stare at each other now because there is really no point in playing that we have reached the server cap.  Find a new server you say?  Nope, pointless, most are in same boat as us.  How about realease new servers now that’s a novel idea. Not trying to be negative just giving facts there really is nothing left to do except maybe build but hey Minecraft has that covered. We can’t even finish the game and get to end the way they created it to be, lol just doesn’t make sense, I mean we can’t even get to endgame, our games ended before we even really got started.  

And for those of you still trying to figure out what this means let me recap.  There are not enough Ragnarok servers like there we’re suppose to be so the existing ones are overloaded with people, not to mention they are unfinished and broke making mattters worse.  So server Dino cap limits are easily being  reached meaning you can no longer tame or raise meaning basically your game is done and any effort prior was wasted time.  Wildcard has created a mess and so far are unwilling to do the right thing.  So in a nutshell don’t bother if your wanting to actually build anything long term you will just be severely disappointed.

So im pretty upset I wasted months of hard work only to be told by wildcards incompeteance, sorry you have to start yet again.  Some of us actually like to finish what we start.  We actually want to start a map and continue to build and grow on it for years not just every few months and then move on to the next broke content realease. 

Solution? Just realease the servers promised and more to accomadate the people wanting to play your game the way it was intended to be played, stop producing content until you can actually finish and take care of what you already have.  You don’t keep having babies in real life just to have them and once they are born forget about them and move on, that would be absurd but seems to be standard operating procedure at wildcard. 

 

Why do you insist on making things sound so much worse than they actually are?

"Like most of Ark it is overloaded with issues" - Yeah there you go, perfect example, overloaded with issues, is it? When was last time you played? Bet you have logged in every day this week.

My question is, if this game is so bad, why you still playing? Yeah, that's what I thought, it's not as bad as you try so bad t make it sound.

And while we are discussing this, almost everything you discuss is direct to do with Ragnorak, a MOD, unpaid MOD.

In closing to ask you one of the questions you asked in the post, WHY DO YOU STILL PLAY?

 

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9 minutes ago, TheDonn said:

OK SO:  Newest tactic to keep servers controlled, it seems. 

You can't transfer fertilized eggs. 

I've tried for 2 cooldowns of the transfer timer, and there is apparently a scrubber-check in the cooldown-removal system of the transfer timer.  If the scrubber detects that it is an egg, it resets its timer at the 40-second mark. 

I got to the oby and checked an egg I was trying to take to a server to incubate down.  It had only 1 minute on transfer timer because while I was running around in base (about 20 minutes before I made it to the oby) I picked the egg up early to combat the transfer timer, so I got lucky.  After waiting 2-3 minutes, I went back to the terminal and the egg had ~31 minutes worth of a timer.

I did this with other things in my inventory as well, a few berries and fiber.  At the 40-second mark, the berries and fiber dropped their cooldowns and the egg gained 31 minutes.  This is after sitting in my inventory for at least 35 minutes.

My tribemates and allies have all found the same thing.  I will do more testing to try and add evidence, but as it stands now, I can't transfer fertilized eggs off of this tamecapped server.

You are doing it all wrong, can't wait till the timer is that low.

We transfer eggs every day all day long.

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34 minutes ago, TheDonn said:

I highly doubt that is an accurate figure.  Since the days of the new official tamecap, we have understood that the tamecap for servers is 5500.  If that is not right, please provide a reference for saying the tamecap is nearly double what the community understands it to be.

https://ark.gamepedia.com/204.0

Tamecaps for unpaid MODs is much different, MUCH lower than Island and SE maps.

Not sure the exact numbers for Island/SE but they are definitely much more than Center or Rag.

Most if not all maps that have reached tame caps are Rag and Center servers.

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9 minutes ago, Palenor said:

Tamecaps for unpaid MODs is much different, MUCH lower than Island and SE maps.

Not sure the exact numbers for Island/SE but they are definitely much more than Center or Rag.

Most if not all maps that have reached tame caps are Rag and Center servers.

Please cite what the lower tamecaps are for Ragnarok and The Center, if you can!  I would love to get some kind of information on this, because the Wiki says "official servers" and that term definitely applies to these maps.

I know Ragnarok and The Center are non-expansion maps, but they are officially supported.  Calling them mods is a misnomer, because it is not modded Ark, it is officially supported, official server Ark.

And also, with Ragnarok and The Center tending to spawn more high-level tames as well as having higher landmasses (so naturally they support more people), it does not follow that these official server maps would have LOWER server tamecaps than the Island or SE.  SE doesn't cap because it is a harsh punishing environment, and many choose not to spend a lot of time there (and especially not have a main base) because of that.  And most Island servers are capped too.

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