Danouk Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I don't know about PvP but I know that on PvE official servers Dino cap is a big problem. I play on my own server and since I started to use structures plus I am wondering how I made it without it before. I think when they do implement structure plus on official servers it should help a lot with the Dino cap. There is an item collector that collects all eggs not (fertilized ones though there is one for them) and also poop. All you have to do is put the proper fuel for it to work. So you want need as many Dinos of each species to get your fill of eggs. You will be ok with one male two females for each and you will have more then enough. But will that be enough to solve the problem? What you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator GP Posted October 25, 2017 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2017 I don 't know if it would be enough to solve the problem because on PvE particularly there are a lot of people that like to breed for mutations and that is one of the reasons people have so many dinos, rather than needing them for lots of poop and eggs. Having said that, there has been no decisions what parts of S+ will be integrated, so those collector items may not even be included. Hopefully they are though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewiatan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 It won't. To solve reaching dino cap once and for all WC would have to change core game design completely. Entire game progression is based on taming dinosaurs and grind. Game forces you to tame a lot of critters and then breed them, imprint them if you want to reach end game and beat final bosses. Some players have hoarding syndrome, therefore they would still tame ridiculous amount of creatures. I have a friend who is not able to stop breeding critters, because he loves mutations. Then he complains about terrible performance in his base... Heh. WC would have to go back to blueprints and reduce dependency level on taming dinosaurs in their game. Kibble tree based on eggs must be scrapped and replaced with kibble tree based on specified meat type that drops from certain dinosaurs. For example raptors love galli or parasaur meat. It would help servers reducing npcs load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfishrob Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, GP said: I don 't know if it would be enough to solve the problem because on PvE particularly there are a lot of people that like to breed for mutations and that is one of the reasons people have so many dinos, rather than needing them for lots of poop and eggs. Having said that, there has been no decisions what parts of S+ will be integrated, so those collector items may not even be included. Hopefully they are though. i would expect kibble dinos is a far larger reason than mutations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfrostyscriv Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, bigfishrob said: i would expect kibble dinos is a far larger reason than mutations They could get rid of kibble dinos altogether and it would not stop dino cap, if tribes do not need kibble dinos they will just tame something else instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulta Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Absolutely not. Players will tame as many dino's as they want for whatever reason they want (boss fights, dino collector, breeding, just cuz, etc.). This was spoken many times in other threads. Egg farms are not the ONLY reason servers are at dino cap, and they are by far not the MAIN reason either. An item that collects eggs for you will barely put a dent in the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 38 minutes ago, Ulta said: Absolutely not. Players will tame as many dino's as they want for whatever reason they want (boss fights, dino collector, breeding, just cuz, etc.). This was spoken many times in other threads. Egg farms are not the ONLY reason servers are at dino cap, and they are by far not the MAIN reason either. An item that collects eggs for you will barely put a dent in the issue. People only like to say the kibble rework will solve cap issues because they really want the kibble rework. We all want it, but at this point lying and saying it will fix dino caps is just dumb. Similarly, structures won't do much of anything to solve the dino cap issue either. Ark players by and large are hoarders, and will collect as much crap as possible until they no longer have room to store their crap...at which point they make more room to store more crap until there's an entire server full of crap and angry players whining that other peoples' crap has slowed down the server. The only solution to dino caps for the time being is for Ark players to exercise some forethought, restraint, and consideration for other players...so basically there is no solution for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demerus Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 the only things that will solve the dino cap issue on servers are: 1. significantly reduce the need for kibble in taming. Put more emphasis on Veggies, Raw Mutton, and prime meats depending on the drag weight/size of the dino. Only use kibble to make the tame take less time to complete. Lets remove taming effectivness from the equation of bonus levels and save it only for if the dino is over narc'd or over tranq'd or if it takes damage while unconsious. 2. Change the imprinting mechanic to only require, walk, cuddle and between 1 or 2 special consumable treats exclusive to imprinting instead of 1 random selection of 15 kibbles. The dino treat recipe could use veggies and berries for herbies, carnos will have prime meat jerky mixed in there. Honey and sap can be one of the ingredients in both to make it more advanced and harder to mass produce for balance purposes. 3 implement proper Dino count management. if a server is already capped, prevent any further dinos from coming onto that ark via obi cross transfer. Have a prompt that comes up when about to download, "Unable to download, there are currently too many tamed creatures on this ark" This will stop servers from getting overloaded with dinos constantly being added exceeding server capacity. 4. More detailed information about servers in the search window regarding: -total current tamed creatures -how many tribes have been created -uptime since last restart 5. Implement more realistic limitations on tribe's dino caps. if a server for example has 5000 dino limit and 70 players can play on that server at one time; Assume all 70 people will have the maximum count of dinos. people come and go of course but a lot of players find a server and call it home for all of their tames. Simple math is 70x500 = 35,000. That is far exceeding the current global caps of official servers. The capabilities for a server to handle that many entities on it is probably slim chance also. This means solo players who choose to play on their own shouldnt have a Tribe and should fall into a different category and have their own limitations. It is not necessary for 1 person to have the potential to possess 500 dinos in their own solo tribe. Make it significantly less for a solo player let's say 50. I would go even further and say forget Tribe Cap, make the Cap Per player. The numbers look a lot better. Some more simple math: 50 survivor dino cap x70 server slots = 3,500 Big difference. Example of what necessary dinos are for a new solo player without a tribe to farm and survive effectively and suit different situations: 10 Situational dinos: Heavy flying transport heavy land transport Fertilizer producer Flint/Metal/crystal gatherer Stone gatherer Meat gatherer Berry gatherer Combat mount land Combat mount water Combat mount air 20 slots for breeding 10 vanity dinos 10 Misc Total = 50 This will deter those who also use alt tribes on other servers to store extra dinos. If they still do, the impact will be significantly less on the overall big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphere Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 At least on unofficial I can increase the dino cap. Although I wonder what that would do, as a side effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 While I agree with a lot of Demerus' points, I wholeheartedly disagree that anything which makes taming or breeding easier will reduce the overall tame count. The quickest solution would be to make all dinos player owned (still shareable in tribes) and implement a 25-30 tame per-player cap. This would have to be include two timers: One with a timer on dinos that causes them to disappear after a cumulative 72 hours of being unclaimed, and another that causes dinos to become unclaimed after 7 days of a player not logging in. (If this is the case, fellow tribe members can claim them if that player will be logged off for more than 7 days, thus increasing the necessity of being tribed) Over time Wildcard could probably consider adding dino storage lockers that "upload" dinos into a stasis and store them like WoW void storage or Bill's Pokemon PC. It could be a Tek-dino storage locker with 3 different versions, one for small dinos (50 slots), one for medium dinos (25 slots) and one for large dinos (10 slots). These lockers would need to be well-defended, because if they broke the dinos would be destroyed....and the dinos couldn't be pulled out unless the player pulling them out had enough free tame slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthaNyan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Demerus said: the only things that will solve the dino cap issue on servers are: 1. significantly reduce the need for kibble in taming. Put more emphasis on Veggies, Raw Mutton, and prime meats depending on the drag weight/size of the dino. Only use kibble to make the tame take less time to complete. Lets remove taming effectivness from the equation of bonus levels and save it only for if the dino is over narc'd or over tranq'd or if it takes damage while unconsious. 2. Change the imprinting mechanic to only require, walk, cuddle and between 1 or 2 special consumable treats exclusive to imprinting instead of 1 random selection of 15 kibbles. The dino treat recipe could use veggies and berries for herbies, carnos will have prime meat jerky mixed in there. Honey and sap can be one of the ingredients in both to make it more advanced and harder to mass produce for balance purposes. 3 implement proper Dino count management. if a server is already capped, prevent any further dinos from coming onto that ark via obi cross transfer. Have a prompt that comes up when about to download, "Unable to download, there are currently too many tamed creatures on this ark" This will stop servers from getting overloaded with dinos constantly being added exceeding server capacity. 4. More detailed information about servers in the search window regarding: -total current tamed creatures -how many tribes have been created -uptime since last restart 5. Implement more realistic limitations on tribe's dino caps. if a server for example has 5000 dino limit and 70 players can play on that server at one time; Assume all 70 people will have the maximum count of dinos. people come and go of course but a lot of players find a server and call it home for all of their tames. Simple math is 70x500 = 35,000. That is far exceeding the current global caps of official servers. The capabilities for a server to handle that many entities on it is probably slim chance also. This means solo players who choose to play on their own shouldnt have a Tribe and should fall into a different category and have their own limitations. It is not necessary for 1 person to have the potential to possess 500 dinos in their own solo tribe. Make it significantly less for a solo player let's say 50. I would go even further and say forget Tribe Cap, make the Cap Per player. The numbers look a lot better. Some more simple math: 50 survivor dino cap x70 server slots = 3,500 Big difference. 1 and 2 will make taming and imprinting easier but will do nothing for dino cap. On contrary people will tame and breed more. If anything 3 will not help with dino cap but will encourage it on PvP servers as well as a meaning of protection from cross-server raids. 4 doesnt help with dino cap, at all. 5 i partially agree with but it doesnt help with dino cap as long as you can have 100-member tribes and alliances. Also 70 slots server doesnt mean that there are only 70 players active on it, some 70-limit servers have(had) more than 200 players rotating in and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StabbyBobby Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Dino cap issues might be resolved with a more aggressive dino decay system.. maybe even long-term neglected critters will go feral after a fashion, and attack nearby tames and survivors, something like that. As it stands, does an unclaimed tame count towards a tame cap? Maybe dino decay can go 1 step further than unclaiming and actually revert to a despawnable wild. Maybe a super contagious, very deadly strain of illness that specifically targets tames in large stationary groups? Monocultures are bad, after all. Maybe make tamed dinos squishier in general? More attrition, more turnover, maybe a net decrease to tamed dino counts on server.. I dunno, I'm spitballin here. But to the OP, I doubt very much that any structures plus gizmo is going to cure the dino cap issue. You simply can't get around human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthaNyan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, StabbyBobby said: Dino cap issues might be resolved with a more aggressive dino decay system.. maybe even long-term neglected critters will go feral after a fashion, and attack nearby tames and survivors, something like that. As it stands, does an unclaimed tame count towards a tame cap? Maybe dino decay can go 1 step further than unclaiming and actually revert to a despawnable wild. They should have went with: "decayed dinos instantly die" instead of making them unclaimed, 2 weeks decay timer on dinos should be sufficient. Because unclaimed decayed dinos do not reduce dino cap as long as there are players waiting to claim them. Making them go wild will be abused as much as breeding wild baby dinos was (gaining another TE level bonus upon re-taming) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator ciabattaroll Posted October 25, 2017 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said: They should have went with: "decayed dinos instantly die" instead of making them unclaimed, 2 weeks decay timer on dinos should be sufficient. Because unclaimed decayed dinos do not reduce dino cap as long as there are players waiting to claim them. Making them go wild will be abused as much as breeding wild baby dinos was (gaining another TE level bonus upon re-taming) Dinos do automatically die if their timers come up whilst unrendered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthaNyan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said: Dinos do automatically die if their timers come up whilst unrendered. "whilst unrendered". 2 words that make a huge difference. Its not like players come 5-10min earlier just to claim dinos because they can, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehuhoser Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 9 hours ago, GP said: I don 't know if it would be enough to solve the problem because on PvE particularly there are a lot of people that like to breed for mutations and that is one of the reasons people have so many dinos, rather than needing them for lots of poop and eggs. Having said that, there has been no decisions what parts of S+ will be integrated, so those collector items may not even be included. Hopefully they are though. I'm hoping that WC gives us ini options to include the other items when used on dedi servers, I can understand on officials some items not being implemented...any additional items to building in the long run is a plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumierre27 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 28 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said: "whilst unrendered". 2 words that make a huge difference. Its not like players come 5-10min earlier just to claim dinos because they can, right? I have seen players stand around and wait for dinos to become claimable as early as an hour before the timer is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 17 minutes ago, ehuhoser said: I'm hoping that WC gives us ini options to include the other items when used on dedi servers, I can understand on officials some items not being implemented...any additional items to building in the long run is a plus. I think that is what they're working on now, just trying to figure out they will go about including portions of the mod into the game and whether they can be enabled/disabled via settings or ini. That said, Orionsun has indicated that he will still have mods that contain the items not implemented by Wildcard so unofficial servers can continue to use those features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volunteer Moderator 1david25 Posted October 26, 2017 Volunteer Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2017 9 hours ago, Danouk said: I don't know about PvP but I know that on PvE official servers Dino cap is a big problem. I play on my own server and since I started to use structures plus I am wondering how I made it without it before. I think when they do implement structure plus on official servers it should help a lot with the Dino cap. There is an item collector that collects all eggs not (fertilized ones though there is one for them) and also poop. All you have to do is put the proper fuel for it to work. So you want need as many Dinos of each species to get your fill of eggs. You will be ok with one male two females for each and you will have more then enough. But will that be enough to solve the problem? What you guys think? It is not very likely to affect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehuhoser Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 minute ago, LouSpowells said: I think that is what they're working on now, just trying to figure out they will go about including portions of the mod into the game and whether they can be enabled/disabled via settings or ini. That said, Orionsun has indicated that he will still have mods that contain the items not implemented by Wildcard so unofficial servers can continue to use those features. yeah but those mods to include does not matter when talking about PC, we don't see them on consoles etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, ehuhoser said: yeah but those mods to include does not matter when talking about PC, we don't see them on consoles etc. They're still figuring that stuff out, but based on their statements they have plans to implement a lot of it, disable some of it via settings, and potentially leave some of it out. Whatever doesn't make it, you'll never get to use, nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo doo. #pcmasterrace :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3s3d Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Hi, they made wrong changes on limit (pve) from 200 (legacy) to 500 (new official) its a way to much, if they reduce tame limit for 250 instead of 500 per tribe it will solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehuhoser Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I have it on PC as well, I play both console, and PC, greater than the master race haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouSpowells Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, W3s3d said: Hi, they made wrong changes on limit (pve) from 200 (legacy) to 500 (new official) its a way to much, if they reduce tame limit for 250 instead of 500 per tribe it will solve. Not trying to be pedantic here, but people are already circumventing the tribe limit by making a second ally tribe for the excess dinos. Such will be the case until a less exploitative dino limit is introduced. Just now, ehuhoser said: I have it on PC as well, I play both console, and PC, greater than the master race haha Traitor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendoza Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Demerus said: 5. Implement more realistic limitations on tribe's dino caps. if a server for example has 5000 dino limit and 70 players can play on that server at one time; Assume all 70 people will have the maximum count of dinos. people come and go of course but a lot of players find a server and call it home for all of their tames. Simple math is 70x500 = 35,000. That is far exceeding the current global caps of official servers. The capabilities for a server to handle that many entities on it is probably slim chance also. This means solo players who choose to play on their own shouldnt have a Tribe and should fall into a different category and have their own limitations. It is not necessary for 1 person to have the potential to possess 500 dinos in their own solo tribe. Make it significantly less for a solo player let's say 50. I would go even further and say forget Tribe Cap, make the Cap Per player. The numbers look a lot better. Some more simple math: 50 survivor dino cap x70 server slots = 3,500 Big difference. I quite like the idea of an individual dino cap per player, -- 50 sounds reasonable, BUT if you were in a tribe of 20 players, that would be like 1000 dinos. For this kind of thing to work, there would need to be some sort of sliding scale of how many dinos could be owned as your tribe numbers increased... Example. Solo Tribe - 30 dinos 2 man tribe - 61 dinos 3 man tribe - 93 dinos 4 man tribe - 126 dinos 5 man tribe - 160 dinos 6 man tribe - 195 dinos 7 man tribe - 231 dinos 8 man tribe - 268 dinos 9 man tribe - 306 dinos 10 man tribe - 345 dinos --------------------------------------------- With this example, you can't split a huge tribe into smaller tribes to get more dino slots... Of course you'd need to cap the max tribe number also to a more reasonable level for it to work! To me 10 is a good number -- 70 max tribe is over kill anyway! If say a tribe of ten split into two groups of 5 -- each tribe would have 160 dinos ( That's a total of 320 instead of 1 tribe of 10 players with 345 dinos) Now granted it sucks to be solo with a mere 30 dinos to your name, though I like being a solo player at times, this game is designed to be a team player tribe game...This method promotes the desire to team up to acquire more dinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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