Why you NEED to imprint your dinos (math inside!)

[raptorjesus666]

Just now, zavulon917 said:

yup and a 0% giga will win against a 100% dodo

oh wait i tought we were listing random a totally unrelated thing

of course u can work around and manage to kill strong dinos

But are you really trying to say that having high imprint does not give a significant advantage? Are you trying to say that having to wake up every 3 hours for 12 days in order to have such an advantage is good for your health?

That's all the point i want to make lol, doesnt matter if im the supreme leader of the biggest alliance in the world or a random bob in a thatch base

sigh..

 

you said that the team with the high imprint would win in that 20 vs 20

i ngive examples why not

 

you evade them, and start making fun of them

 

are we reaching the classic "you have to agree with me or your opinion is invalid phase" yet?

[OGCookies]

22 minutes ago, jlhanna2 said:

Your point on the importance of imprinting is so true.  I track all the stats of my dinos in a speadsheet and I don't think a lot of players get the importance of breeding and imprinting to enhance dino stats.  When you see it on paper, it can be astonishing at first.

Where I tend to disagree with you is on the need for a change.  Players just need to learn discipline about their gaming priorities.  I try to get 100% imprinting, but for dinos such as gigas and the like, I'm not going to jeopardize my career over it.  Just keep breeding and stacking the stats with each successful generation.

If the argument is that you can't breed multiple generations for fear of getting raided by a mega-tribe; do what I did, play Dedicated Servers.  I have nothing against mega-tribes (as long as they aren't using exploits), but I realized about a year ago that as a career professional who manages a small tribe, we'd never hang on officials with the mega-tribes.  On a couple of occasions, we even befriended a few mega-tribes.  Well, then cross ark transferring still got us wiped as a juggernaut from another server came swooping in and wiped our server.  No hard feelings other than "really" why spend any energy on a small tribe like mine.  We engage in PVP, but know our limitations and work on relationships as we'll never dominate any server we play on.

I like your article, but we don't need the developers to modify the game just because people decide to choose the ARK life over school and work.  For those folks, their day of reckoning is coming like a freight train.

ARK ON! 

Well said ?

[zavulon917]

You're opinion is invalid because I stated facts wich are not questionable.

The 20 v 20 thing was just an example, it's obvious that there are other factors

Let's recap the unquestionable facts:

1) High imprint gave an huge advantage quadrupling the stregth of your gigas or almost tripling the strength of rexes/zinos etc

2)To achieve high level of imprint you have to commit to an unhealty lifestyle or share account information.

 

Those are facts and if you dont agree you are wrong. Period.

Other thing that i wrote are suggestion or point of view, you can disagree with them or give constructive criticism.

 

[Joebl0w13]

2 minutes ago, zavulon917 said:

2)To achieve high level of imprint you have to commit to an unhealty lifestyle or share account information

That is, in fact, an opinion.

[zavulon917]

Just now, Joebl0w13 said:

That is, in fact, an opinion.

Do you consider waking up every 3 hours for almost 2 weeks an healty lifestyle? If yes please explain how and why

[Joebl0w13]

Just now, zavulon917 said:

Do you consider waking up every 3 hours for almost 2 weeks an healty lifestyle? If yes please explain how and why

Since you are asking my opinion on the subject. Sure, I've done far worse in the Army.

[raptorjesus666]

5 minutes ago, zavulon917 said:

You're opinion is invalid because I stated facts wich are not questionable.

The 20 v 20 thing was just an example, it's obvious that there are other factors

Let's recap the unquestionable facts:

1) High imprint gave an huge advantage quadrupling the stregth of your gigas or almost tripling the strength of rexes/zinos etc

2)To achieve high level of imprint you have to commit to an unhealty lifestyle or share account information.

 

Those are facts and if you dont agree you are wrong. Period.

Other thing that i wrote are suggestion or point of view, you can disagree with them or give constructive criticism.

 

you can use examples

but when i do, there allways seem to be something

 

"Those are facts and if you dont agree you are wrong". Period. being the keyline for me

 

[OGCookies]

4 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Since you are asking my opinion on the subject. Sure, I've done far worse in the Army.

Not saying i agree or disagree but just because you have done worse in the army how does that make it healthy, not seeing the connection, from the facts that are widely believed lack of sleep shortens life expectancy 

[raptorjesus666]

Just now, OGCookies said:

Not saying i agree or disagree but just because you have done worse in the army how does that make it healthy, not seeing the connection, from the facts that are widely believes lack of sleep shorten life expectancy 

because you do not need 100% 

it is optional

 

i gave examples how dinos without imprint are superior to dinos with

but apparantly not "good" enough

[zavulon917]

1 minute ago, raptorjesus666 said:

you can use examples

but when i do, there allways seem to be something

I actually gave example on how I should fix the issue, in particular i consider my 3rd suggestion a really valid solution.

If you disagree with facts you are wrong by the very definition of the word fact, that's not my fault.

 

3 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

Since you are asking my opinion on the subject. Sure, I've done far worse in the Army.

Do you think that forcing random people on the internet  to such timelines in order to compete in a videogame is a good idea/mechanic?

[raptorjesus666]

1 minute ago, zavulon917 said:

I actually gave example on how I should fix the issue, in particular i consider my 3rd suggestion a really valid solution.

If you disagree with facts you are wrong by the very definition of the word fact, that's not my fault.

 

Do you think that forcing random people on the internet  to such timelines in order to compete in a videogame is a good idea/mechanic?

some people see their opinion as a fact (like yourself)

fact is: you may have the best of the best wyvern lvl 190, 100% imprint

i will wipe the floor with you 24/7 on any "decent" griffin. doesn't even have to be a great griffin, just "decent"

 

and there you were, spending howmany days trying to imprint?

and howmuch time did i spend?

 

ah yes, the logic and the destruction of your "fact"

[Joebl0w13]

1 minute ago, zavulon917 said:

I actually gave example on how I should fix the issue, in particular i consider my 3rd suggestion a really valid solution.

If you disagree with facts you are wrong by the very definition of the word fact, that's not my fault.

 

Do you think that forcing random people on the internet  to such timelines in order to compete in a videogame is a good idea/mechanic?

You are not forced to imprint.

[OGCookies]

To continue that thought a couple posts above pretty sure its well documented the army has a tendency to send a lage ammount of soldier home in a very unhealthy state

[Joebl0w13]

Just now, OGCookies said:

To continue that thought a couple posts above pretty sure its well documented the army has a tendency to send a lage ammount of soldier home in a very unhealthy state

That is generally from the effects of having to legally murder other people.

[OGCookies]

Just now, Joebl0w13 said:

That is generally from the effects of having to legally murder other people.

Right

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

2 hours ago, zavulon917 said:

 

here u say you disagree with everything

here you agree with on the main point of my topic, ummh ok?

 

 

I used the worst possible case because it is by far the most important: if you have good gigas you're good, if not you're dead.

Now let's assume that the case of the giga is a bug that will some day get fixed:

A GENERIC FIGHTER DINO WITH 100% IMPRINT WILL BE 2.4 TIMES STRONGER THAN AN IDENTICAL UNIMPRINTED DINO

there, are you happy now? does it change somethings? does this disprove in any way any of my points?

Even if i gave a 50% imprint (which actually means dedicated half of my day for severals day) a 100% imprint will still be far stronger( roughly 60% stronger if im correct)

 

this is not how it works, wild levels are randomly distributed between all 6 or 7 stats

 

Right now stamina is not affected by imprint. The thing you are suggesting is basically making one of the most (if not the most) important stat of all flyers also affected, wich will force people to imprint even more

 

U quoted me quoting someone else...

[zavulon917]

3 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

fact is: you may have the best of the best wyvern lvl 190, 100% imprint

i will wipe the floor with you 24/7 on any "decent" griffin. doesn't even have to be a great griffin, just "decent"

 

This is not a fact but an opinion but i actually agree with you. You will probably kill me with your griffin. They are different animals that do different thing and player skill will also be really important in such fight. But if im on a stronger rex and you are on a weaker one i will win 100% of the times. 

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

17 minutes ago, zavulon917 said:

Do you consider waking up every 3 hours for almost 2 weeks an healty lifestyle? If yes please explain how and why

Technically speaking,  a sleep cycle lasts less than 3 hrs.. so to state it is unhealthy is wrong,  most people generally lack the knowledge and discipline to take advantage of what the human body is capable of...

[raptorjesus666]

4 minutes ago, zavulon917 said:

This is not a fact but an opinion but i actually agree with you. You will probably kill me with your griffin. They are different animals that do different thing and player skill will also be really important in such fight. But if im on a stronger rex and you are on a weaker one i will win 100% of the times. 

you are forgetting even more important factors

you have a 100% imprinted rex (not imprinted by yourself, you said yourself earlier that you do not imprint) so no +30% dmg and no -30% dmg received for you

as you seem a casual player, i doubt you have high quality blueprints, or a dedicated crafting skill character to make even better stuff

 

so there you are on a mighty rex, statwise superior yet a laughable saddle

while i have a saddle with 120 armor

 

wanna bet that you won't win?

 

curious to what crap you'll pull of now to again evade your "flawless fact"

[Victor117]

3 hours ago, zavulon917 said:

How can u pretend to argument with someone if u didnt even read what he wrotes before? You are basically repeting the same thing that i said. If u had took the 2 mins required to read it you would have saw that those really simple calculation are correct and you would not have replied. The way the giga imprinting mechanics works, intended or not, will in fact double it s effective hp. Check above. 

Even if it worked as any other dinos my point will still be all valide, with a 100% imrpint be 2.5 times stronger than a 0% one

Think before looking dumb

Lmao that guy just made himself look like an idiot, imprinting doesnt take into account negative effects such as the giga health penalty thats why it gains more than 20%. Maybe he should do some research before running his mouth.

[Joebl0w13]

Alright, you are all free to discuss the topic at hand but lets keep it civil and not get personal. 

No more calling each other idiots or stupid.

[johnm81]

1 hour ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Since you are asking my opinion on the subject. Sure, I've done far worse in the Army.

As a medical professional I can tell you that such a life style increases risk of myocardial infarction, transient ischemic attacks, hypertension, immuno-suppression, and malaise.... What you did in the army as well as imprinting. 

Just wanted to ensure we were all aware of this.

[Joebl0w13]

7 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

As a medical professional I can tell you that such a life style increases risk of myocardial infarction, transient ischemic attacks, hypertension, immuno-suppression, and malaise.... What you did in the army as well as imprinting. 

Just wanted to ensure we were all aware of this.

And the leading contributor to death is life.

[johnm81]

5 hours ago, zavulon917 said:

Since the imprinting argument is hot right now, i want to give some clarification on how much is important in the current state of the game to imprint your dinos.

The argument that lots of people use is that imprinting is not needed if you dont have the time and it's just an extra bonus.

This is complently wrong and can be shown by using simple math.

 

The strength of a dinos can be misured by how much damage it can leash before it dies, therefore is directly proportional to the amount of effective health and damage.

Imprinting an animal will both increase hp and dmg on a percentage of the base stat, and those increments will stack multiplicatively with each other.

Let's consider the example of a giga: the health and damage increase achieved with a 100% imprint is 20%  however the base hp stat on wich the increase is calulated is not based upon the value of the hp of the tamed animals but its wild value.

A giga receives an 80% reduction in the value of hp upon taming (wich means its base wild value is divided by 5) so the imprint bonus is basically 5 times greater that what expected.

This means THAT  A 100% IMPRINTED GIGA WILL DOUBLE ITS HP.

If the giga is ridden by the guy who did the imprint, it will receive an additional 30% buff to damage and resistance.

The effective strength of such animal will therefore be multiplicated by:

- 2: hp increase by imprint

- 1.2:  dmg increase by imprint

-1.3: dmg taken reduction by bonus rider

-1.3: dmg increase by bonus rider

2*1.2*1.3*1.3=4.05

A 100% IMPRINTED GIGA WILL BE 4 TIMES STRONGER THAN AN IDENTICAL UNIMPRINTED GIGA

In a higly competitive and punishing game having your main weapons 4 times weaker than the ones of your enemies is not really an option, so people are forced to adopt an unhealty lifestyle:  to imprint a giga to 100% a player interaction is required approximately every 3 hours for almost 12 days and must be done by a single physical person.

Here's a list of problem:

-The simplest way to work around the absurd investement in time and dedication required, is to share your account with other people on different timezone so they can imprint for you. Therefore the game is directly encouraging its players to share account information to random people they meet online wich i'm pretty sure it's a agaisnt steam's terms of service.

-If you decide to not share your account information you are forced to point alarm every 3 hours for almost 12 days: I dont have to say you why this is unhealthy.

--If you decide to not imprint your dinos you will be in a massive disadvantage therefore The game is encouraging its players to adopt a lifestyle wich is harmful for their health and can potentially be deadly: just think about having to drive with such levels of sleep deprivation.

 

Possible solutions

1) Implementing a tribe based imprinting

   pro: people from different time zones can coordinate to give imprints.

  cons: smaller tribes are already at a massive disadvantage in this game and this mechanic will put them even further behind.

 

2)Getting rid of the mechanic all together

  pro: it fixes all the problem

  cons: having a mechanic that rewards a certain amount of dedication can be good (?). 

 

3)Double the amount of % gained by each interaction:

pro: if, for example, an animal requires 10 imprints to reach 100% you will have enough time to provideit with 20. You can now skip half of the imprint and plan your imprinting schedule in an achievable manner and still reach the maximum bonus.

cons: ???

 

I hope I was clear on my points,

Goodbye^^

1. Is the current Imprinting system bad? Yes.

2. Does it give huge advantages? Yes.

3. Is it a must in pvp? No.

Hear me out for a second. Your giga = 4 of mine. But as pvp is right now do I need gigas? In most of my raids where we wiped alphas very few dinos are actually used except stegos and griffins. Huge amounts bullets, longnecks, explosives on the other hand were consumed. Ark is a huge game. And it can be played many different ways. You can be competitive pvp wise without those animals. 

And in fact I would dare to suggest that the time it takes to make that perfect giga would be more efficiently spent gathering mats for guns ammo and explosives.

Lastly, even the stegos weren't a must. Consider what setting up a line of cannons on a quetz/boat can do to a base along with turrets and sniper cover. Most dinos aren't a must in this game. And if you chose too, gathering the mats for an mastercraft longneck and flame arrows can do far more hurt than a dino.

[johnm81]

7 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

And the leading contributor to death is life.

Logical fallacy.

1. Everyone who has died at one point was alive. 

Does that mean life caused death? No being death is the lack of life. This is a logical fallacy of associating causation from correlation. There is a correlation between those who have died and those who have lived. And yet there isn't a causation of those who have died from life itself.