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Why you NEED to imprint your dinos (math inside!)


zavulon917

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Since the imprinting argument is hot right now, i want to give some clarification on how much is important in the current state of the game to imprint your dinos.

The argument that lots of people use is that imprinting is not needed if you dont have the time and it's just an extra bonus.

This is complently wrong and can be shown by using simple math.

 

The strength of a dinos can be misured by how much damage it can leash before it dies, therefore is directly proportional to the amount of effective health and damage.

Imprinting an animal will both increase hp and dmg on a percentage of the base stat, and those increments will stack multiplicatively with each other.

Let's consider the example of a giga: the health and damage increase achieved with a 100% imprint is 20%  however the base hp stat on wich the increase is calulated is not based upon the value of the hp of the tamed animals but its wild value.

A giga receives an 80% reduction in the value of hp upon taming (wich means its base wild value is divided by 5) so the imprint bonus is basically 5 times greater that what expected.

This means THAT  A 100% IMPRINTED GIGA WILL DOUBLE ITS HP.

If the giga is ridden by the guy who did the imprint, it will receive an additional 30% buff to damage and resistance.

The effective strength of such animal will therefore be multiplicated by:

- 2: hp increase by imprint

- 1.2:  dmg increase by imprint

-1.3: dmg taken reduction by bonus rider

-1.3: dmg increase by bonus rider

2*1.2*1.3*1.3=4.05

A 100% IMPRINTED GIGA WILL BE 4 TIMES STRONGER THAN AN IDENTICAL UNIMPRINTED GIGA

In a higly competitive and punishing game having your main weapons 4 times weaker than the ones of your enemies is not really an option, so people are forced to adopt an unhealty lifestyle:  to imprint a giga to 100% a player interaction is required approximately every 3 hours for almost 12 days and must be done by a single physical person.

Here's a list of problem:

-The simplest way to work around the absurd investement in time and dedication required, is to share your account with other people on different timezone so they can imprint for you. Therefore the game is directly encouraging its players to share account information to random people they meet online wich i'm pretty sure it's a agaisnt steam's terms of service.

-If you decide to not share your account information you are forced to point alarm every 3 hours for almost 12 days: I dont have to say you why this is unhealthy.

--If you decide to not imprint your dinos you will be in a massive disadvantage therefore The game is encouraging its players to adopt a lifestyle wich is harmful for their health and can potentially be deadly: just think about having to drive with such levels of sleep deprivation.

 

Possible solutions

1) Implementing a tribe based imprinting

   pro: people from different time zones can coordinate to give imprints.

  cons: smaller tribes are already at a massive disadvantage in this game and this mechanic will put them even further behind.

 

2)Getting rid of the mechanic all together

  pro: it fixes all the problem

  cons: having a mechanic that rewards a certain amount of dedication can be good (?). 

 

3)Double the amount of % gained by each interaction:

pro: if, for example, an animal requires 10 imprints to reach 100% you will have enough time to provideit with 20. You can now skip half of the imprint and plan your imprinting schedule in an achievable manner and still reach the maximum bonus.

cons: ???

 

I hope I was clear on my points,

Goodbye^^

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3 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

lol

 

do you realise why an imprinted giga is strong?

offcourse not by reading your wall of text!!!

 

a giga imprint is bugged and it uses the wild giga hp instead of tamed giga hp

or do you believe that 100% imprint (+20% health stat) equals +100% gain? (your own words, hp gets doubled)

 

common you are smarter then that

 

How can u pretend to argument with someone if u didnt even read what he wrotes before? You are basically repeting the same thing that i said. If u had took the 2 mins required to read it you would have saw that those really simple calculation are correct and you would not have replied. The way the giga imprinting mechanics works, intended or not, will in fact double it s effective hp. Check above. 

Even if it worked as any other dinos my point will still be all valide, with a 100% imrpint be 2.5 times stronger than a 0% one

Think before looking dumb :D

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9 minutes ago, zavulon917 said:

How can u pretend to argument with someone if u didnt even read what he wrotes before? You are basically repeting the same thing that i said. If u had took the 2 mins required to read it you would have saw that those really simple calculation are correct and you would not have replied. The way the giga imprinting mechanics works, intended or not, will in fact double it s effective hp. Check above. 

Even if it worked as any other dinos my point will still be all valide, with a 100% imrpint be 2.5 times stronger than a 0% one

Think before looking dumb :D

that is true, and i disagree with everything. he used the worst case possible (and only case) to proof a point that should have been fixed thousand patches ago

 

from my point of view, the only "fix" to imprinting would be using either the "increase wild lvl %) or "increase tamed lvl %"

what do i mean by this you wonder now?

 

a lvl 5 trike has 100% melee so default damage is 32

said trike gets +5% per level (in other words 1% per lvl as they only spawn in a multiply of per 5 lvls)

 

that's how i would rework imprint. there are 6 main stats (7 with oxygen for some creatures)

i would make it that every imprint, gives a stat increase per stat and that stat only

first imprint: +5% health

second imprint +5% weight

third imprint +5% stamina etc etc

 

you would still get benefit, the higher the base stat the higher the benefit, without making it complelty OP and a mandatory

the final bonus (100%) could be another +5% to all those stats. and removing the damage done and damage received

 

 

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22 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

that is true, and i disagree with everything. he used the worst case possible (and only case) to proof a point that should have been fixed thousand patches ago

 

from my point of view, the only "fix" to imprinting would be using either the "increase wild lvl %) or "increase tamed lvl %"

what do i mean by this you wonder now?

 

a lvl 5 trike has 100% melee so default damage is 32

said trike gets +5% per level (in other words 1% per lvl as they only spawn in a multiply of per 5 lvls)

 

that's how i would rework imprint. there are 6 main stats (7 with oxygen for some creatures)

i would make it that every imprint, gives a stat increase per stat and that stat only

first imprint: +5% health

second imprint +5% weight

third imprint +5% stamina etc etc

 

you would still get benefit, the higher the base stat the higher the benefit, without making it complelty OP and a mandatory

the final bonus (100%) could be another +5% to all those stats. and removing the damage done and damage received

 

 

If that was the route taken to "fix" imprinting.. I would rather remove the stat gains (cause you should be breeding for stats anyways) and instead have only the buff to damage and debuff to damage taking, would make more sense and still enforce the idea that you are personally imprinting a baby to be better for your character..

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7 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

and i disagree with everything

here u say you disagree with everything

7 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

without making it complelty OP and a mandatory

here you agree with on the main point of my topic, ummh ok?

 

 

28 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

that is true, and i disagree with everything. he used the worst case possible (and only case) to proof a point that should have been fixed thousand patches ago

I used the worst possible case because it is by far the most important: if you have good gigas you're good, if not you're dead.

Now let's assume that the case of the giga is a bug that will some day get fixed:

A GENERIC FIGHTER DINO WITH 100% IMPRINT WILL BE 2.4 TIMES STRONGER THAN AN IDENTICAL UNIMPRINTED DINO

there, are you happy now? does it change somethings? does this disprove in any way any of my points?

Even if i gave a 50% imprint (which actually means dedicated half of my day for severals day) a 100% imprint will still be far stronger( roughly 60% stronger if im correct)

 

28 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

a lvl 5 trike has 100% melee so default damage is 32

said trike gets +5% per level (in other words 1% per lvl as they only spawn in a multiply of per 5 lvls)

this is not how it works, wild levels are randomly distributed between all 6 or 7 stats

 

5 minutes ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

third imprint +5% stamina etc etc

Right now stamina is not affected by imprint. The thing you are suggesting is basically making one of the most (if not the most) important stat of all flyers also affected, wich will force people to imprint even more

 

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oh nvm you are a 123

"i can't compete with the top, so i'd like to have things nerfed to my level of skill"

 

ye we've seen how the cries for nerfs reffering to pvp worked out, funny that you mention fliers. were those not the exact type of creatures that got hit, hard? because of pvp? becausez people could not compete "oh too fast, my turrets can't hit them"

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1 hour ago, zavulon917 said:

Since the imprinting argument is hot right now, i want to give some clarification on how much is important in the current state of the game to imprint your dinos.

The argument that lots of people use is that imprinting is not needed if you dont have the time and it's just an extra bonus.

This is complently wrong and can be shown by using simple math.

 

The strength of a dinos can be misured by how much damage it can leash before it dies, therefore is directly proportional to the amount of effective health and damage.

Imprinting an animal will both increase hp and dmg on a percentage of the base stat, and those increments will stack multiplicatively with each other.

Let's consider the example of a giga: the health and damage increase achieved with a 100% imprint is 20%  however the base hp stat on wich the increase is calulated is not based upon the value of the hp of the tamed animals but its wild value.

A giga receives an 80% reduction in the value of hp upon taming (wich means its base wild value is divided by 5) so the imprint bonus is basically 5 times greater that what expected.

This means THAT  A 100% IMPRINTED GIGA WILL DOUBLE ITS HP.

If the giga is ridden by the guy who did the imprint, it will receive an additional 30% buff to damage and resistance.

The effective strength of such animal will therefore be multiplicated by:

- 2: hp increase by imprint

- 1.2:  dmg increase by imprint

-1.3: dmg taken reduction by bonus rider

-1.3: dmg increase by bonus rider

2*1.2*1.3*1.3=4.05

A 100% IMPRINTED GIGA WILL BE 4 TIMES STRONGER THAN AN IDENTICAL UNIMPRINTED GIGA

In a higly competitive and punishing game having your main weapons 4 times weaker than the ones of your enemies is not really an option, so people are forced to adopt an unhealty lifestyle:  to imprint a giga to 100% a player interaction is required approximately every 3 hours for almost 12 days and must be done by a single physical person.

Here's a list of problem:

-The simplest way to work around the absurd investement in time and dedication required, is to share your account with other people on different timezone so they can imprint for you. Therefore the game is directly encouraging its players to share account information to random people they meet online wich i'm pretty sure it's a agaisnt steam's terms of service.

-If you decide to not share your account information you are forced to point alarm every 3 hours for almost 12 days: I dont have to say you why this is unhealthy.

--If you decide to not imprint your dinos you will be in a massive disadvantage therefore The game is encouraging its players to adopt a lifestyle wich is harmful for their health and can potentially be deadly: just think about having to drive with such levels of sleep deprivation.

 

Possible solutions

1) Implementing a tribe based imprinting

   pro: people from different time zones can coordinate to give imprints.

  cons: smaller tribes are already at a massive disadvantage in this game and this mechanic will put them even further behind.

 

2)Getting rid of the mechanic all together

  pro: it fixes all the problem

  cons: having a mechanic that rewards a certain amount of dedication can be good (?). 

 

3)Double the amount of % gained by each interaction:

pro: if, for example, an animal requires 10 imprints to reach 100% you will have enough time to provideit with 20. You can now skip half of the imprint and plan your imprinting schedule in an achievable manner and still reach the maximum bonus.

cons: ???

 

I hope I was clear on my points,

Goodbye^^

If your trying to keep up with alpha tribes or be an alpha tribe you have already adopted an unhealthy lifestyle as these people live on the game with or without giga imprints btw every person i know that has 100 percent imprinted a giga account shared to do it

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15 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

oh nvm you are a 123

"i can't compete with the top, so i'd like to have things nerfed to my level of skill"

 

ye we've seen how the cries for nerfs reffering to pvp worked out, funny that you mention fliers. were those not the exact type of creatures that got hit, hard? because of pvp? becausez people could not compete "oh too fast, my turrets can't hit them"

Theres 0 skill involved in ark is all just time spent so natrally people with less actual responsibility will be more "skilled"

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20 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

oh nvm you are a 123

"i can't compete with the top, so i'd like to have things nerfed to my level of skill"

 

ye we've seen how the cries for nerfs reffering to pvp worked out, funny that you mention fliers. were those not the exact type of creatures that got hit, hard? because of pvp? becausez people could not compete "oh too fast, my turrets can't hit them"

and you play pve as far as i can see so your opinion doesnt matter all together. 

You see how this worked out? lacking argumentation cause to attack the person who speak not the argument in question :D

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Just now, zavulon917 said:

and you play pve as far as i can see so your opinion doesnt matter all together. 

You see how this worked out? lacking argumentation cause to attack the person who speak not the argument in question :D

indeed as far as you can see

because it is not possible to play both right?

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A lot of time will pass before WC touches core gameplay mechanics and improves them.

I see imprinting and breeding as gameplay mechanics that promotes unhealthy behaviours due to time sink. I would like to have all time rates halved with possiblity of imprinting by tribe members at least, so the game would start to respect my time finally.

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Just now, raptorjesus666 said:

indeed as far as you can see

because it is not possible to play both right?

i assumed you play pve the same way you assumed that 

24 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

"i can't compete with the top, so i'd like to have things nerfed to my level of skill"

 

i had high imprint giga and all the good stuff. Not done directly by me because i think it's insane to do so but you are putting word in my mouth that i never say.

people will never be able to compete for the top. Small tribe cant summon out of nowhere 70 player to reach server cap, having hundreds of people dedicated to farming, breeding etc

The game is obviously unfair against smaal group and it's how it works and im actually perfectly fine with that.

If you are small it doesnt even make sense to imprint to 100% cuz u'll die anyway if someone big decide to kill you.

My point is just that imprinting is a dumb mechanics and should be changed. Period.

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Just now, waterKeeper said:

You're right that the game focuses on dps, but the easiest way to increase your dps is just getting more players in your tribe. 

sure let's say i have 20 player in my tribe and you have 20 player. i have high imprint dinos and you have low-normal imprint.

20 dino vs 20 dino I win. Probably also 15 v 20 or 10 v 20 

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2 minutes ago, zavulon917 said:

i assumed you play pve the same way you assumed that 

i had high imprint giga and all the good stuff. Not done directly by me because i think it's insane to do so but you are putting word in my mouth that i never say.

people will never be able to compete for the top. Small tribe cant summon out of nowhere 70 player to reach server cap, having hundreds of people dedicated to farming, breeding etc

The game is obviously unfair against smaal group and it's how it works and im actually perfectly fine with that.

If you are small it doesnt even make sense to imprint to 100% cuz u'll die anyway if someone big decide to kill you.

My point is just that imprinting is a dumb mechanics and should be changed. Period.

and there we have it

i can't compete with the top because i'm a small player, have no time to imprint myself so i'd like to have everyone with no imprints

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11 minutes ago, zavulon917 said:

i assumed you play pve the same way you assumed that 

i had high imprint giga and all the good stuff. Not done directly by me because i think it's insane to do so but you are putting word in my mouth that i never say.

people will never be able to compete for the top. Small tribe cant summon out of nowhere 70 player to reach server cap, having hundreds of people dedicated to farming, breeding etc

The game is obviously unfair against smaal group and it's how it works and im actually perfectly fine with that.

If you are small it doesnt even make sense to imprint to 100% cuz u'll die anyway if someone big decide to kill you.

My point is just that imprinting is a dumb mechanics and should be changed. Period.

Its funny people are quick to say the game is not designed for pve but between 70 players zerg tribes that overload ur server and raid u or offline raiders, dupers etc it seems to me it isnt designed for pvp

 

 

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8 minutes ago, zavulon917 said:

sure let's say i have 20 player in my tribe and you have 20 player. i have high imprint dinos and you have low-normal imprint.

20 dino vs 20 dino I win. Probably also 15 v 20 or 10 v 20 

and this right here shows me that you are a small player with not so much exp

have you ever used griffins, those flying thingies that can't be bred so they have 0% imprint, yet they rule the sky

yes, they are far far better then wyverns

 

are those 100% gigas to hard to take down?

have you tried using some kentros, and some rhinos? you will make said giga enrage before the rider even realise it (esp an unexperienced player that will happily bite the kentros)

 

what else do you struggle with?

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2 hours ago, zavulon917 said:

Since the imprinting argument is hot right now, i want to give some clarification on how much is important in the current state of the game to imprint your dinos.

The argument that lots of people use is that imprinting is not needed if you dont have the time and it's just an extra bonus.

This is complently wrong and can be shown by using simple math.

 

The strength of a dinos can be misured by how much damage it can leash before it dies, therefore is directly proportional to the amount of effective health and damage.

Imprinting an animal will both increase hp and dmg on a percentage of the base stat, and those increments will stack multiplicatively with each other.

Let's consider the example of a giga: the health and damage increase achieved with a 100% imprint is 20%  however the base hp stat on wich the increase is calulated is not based upon the value of the hp of the tamed animals but its wild value.

A giga receives an 80% reduction in the value of hp upon taming (wich means its base wild value is divided by 5) so the imprint bonus is basically 5 times greater that what expected.

This means THAT  A 100% IMPRINTED GIGA WILL DOUBLE ITS HP.

If the giga is ridden by the guy who did the imprint, it will receive an additional 30% buff to damage and resistance.

The effective strength of such animal will therefore be multiplicated by:

- 2: hp increase by imprint

- 1.2:  dmg increase by imprint

-1.3: dmg taken reduction by bonus rider

-1.3: dmg increase by bonus rider

2*1.2*1.3*1.3=4.05

A 100% IMPRINTED GIGA WILL BE 4 TIMES STRONGER THAN AN IDENTICAL UNIMPRINTED GIGA

In a higly competitive and punishing game having your main weapons 4 times weaker than the ones of your enemies is not really an option, so people are forced to adopt an unhealty lifestyle:  to imprint a giga to 100% a player interaction is required approximately every 3 hours for almost 12 days and must be done by a single physical person.

Here's a list of problem:

-The simplest way to work around the absurd investement in time and dedication required, is to share your account with other people on different timezone so they can imprint for you. Therefore the game is directly encouraging its players to share account information to random people they meet online wich i'm pretty sure it's a agaisnt steam's terms of service.

-If you decide to not share your account information you are forced to point alarm every 3 hours for almost 12 days: I dont have to say you why this is unhealthy.

--If you decide to not imprint your dinos you will be in a massive disadvantage therefore The game is encouraging its players to adopt a lifestyle wich is harmful for their health and can potentially be deadly: just think about having to drive with such levels of sleep deprivation.

 

Possible solutions

1) Implementing a tribe based imprinting

   pro: people from different time zones can coordinate to give imprints.

  cons: smaller tribes are already at a massive disadvantage in this game and this mechanic will put them even further behind.

 

2)Getting rid of the mechanic all together

  pro: it fixes all the problem

  cons: having a mechanic that rewards a certain amount of dedication can be good (?). 

 

3)Double the amount of % gained by each interaction:

pro: if, for example, an animal requires 10 imprints to reach 100% you will have enough time to provideit with 20. You can now skip half of the imprint and plan your imprinting schedule in an achievable manner and still reach the maximum bonus.

cons: ???

 

I hope I was clear on my points,

Goodbye^^

Your point on the importance of imprinting is so true.  I track all the stats of my dinos in a speadsheet and I don't think a lot of players get the importance of breeding and imprinting to enhance dino stats.  When you see it on paper, it can be astonishing at first.

Where I tend to disagree with you is on the need for a change.  Players just need to learn discipline about their gaming priorities.  I try to get 100% imprinting, but for dinos such as gigas and the like, I'm not going to jeopardize my career over it.  Just keep breeding and stacking the stats with each successful generation.

If the argument is that you can't breed multiple generations for fear of getting raided by a mega-tribe; do what I did, play Dedicated Servers.  I have nothing against mega-tribes (as long as they aren't using exploits), but I realized about a year ago that as a career professional who manages a small tribe, we'd never hang on officials with the mega-tribes.  On a couple of occasions, we even befriended a few mega-tribes.  Well, then cross ark transferring still got us wiped as a juggernaut from another server came swooping in and wiped our server.  No hard feelings other than "really" why spend any energy on a small tribe like mine.  We engage in PVP, but know our limitations and work on relationships as we'll never dominate any server we play on.

I like your article, but we don't need the developers to modify the game just because people decide to choose the ARK life over school and work.  For those folks, their day of reckoning is coming like a freight train.

ARK ON! 

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25 minutes ago, raptorjesus666 said:

and this right here shows me that you are a small player with not so much exp

have you ever used griffins, those flying thingies that can't be bred so they have 0% imprint, yet they rule the sky

yes, they are far far better then wyverns

 

are those 100% gigas to hard to take down?

have you tried using some kentros, and some rhinos? you will make said giga enrage before the rider even realise it (esp an unexperienced player that will happily bite the kentros)

 

what else do you struggle with?

yup and a 0% giga will win against a 100% dodo

oh wait i tought we were listing random a totally unrelated thing

of course u can work around and manage to kill strong dinos

But are you really trying to say that having high imprint does not give a significant advantage? Are you trying to say that having to wake up every 3 hours for 12 days in order to have such an advantage is good for your health?

That's all the point i want to make lol, doesnt matter if im the supreme leader of the biggest alliance in the world or a random bob in a thatch base

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