Jump to content

Ark pvp is dumb. It's just offline wiping all the time.


Zoopshab

Recommended Posts

When my wife and I set up our 4 server Primitive Plus cluster, The Island, The Center, SE and Ragnarok maps with PvP mode, we set them to have offline raid protection enabled to solve this problem.  That way all your hard work is not lost while you have a real life, a job and family.  You want to PvP someone, fine but they have to be online to be able to defend themselves...I think it's the best way to do it.  FYI, we have room for plenty of players on Dodos_4_The_Win

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 98
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 hours ago, johnm81 said:

If you are referring to the system where you place down an object and it protects structures/tames inside the bubble if all tribe members are logged off then that is just as bad an implementation of ORP as they have now. The abuse of it is whenever a tribe is attacked then everyone logs off. Another way is Dark and Lights bubble works and the attacker makes known their intent to attack by showing the banner. That's terrible as well because instead of fighting targets just load up all their goodies and dump it or hide it away on another base.

Again, ORP at its very core is flawed thus the vast majority of its implementation forms are terrible and riddled with abuse.

If people would take time to learn the tribe system in ARK with its privilege system they would find out that you can invite people and have their access to the tribe loot/tames extremely limited as well as their ability to demo structures... until they earn trust.

The mod did NOT do that. You could alter how long it took for the immunity to kick in once the whole tribe logged off. It was a good solid 15 to 20 minutes (on the server I played that had it) before the immunity kicked in. So if you saw a tribe was threatening to come kill you, that was them being stupid and giving you enough time to log off should you decide to do that. But if a tribe was smart, they'd blindside you with an attack without warning. And if I was stupid enough to log off, my base would be exposed raw for 20 minutes for them to just up and raid it without me there. So it was unwise to log off if someone came and attacked you without warning. You were forced to fight back and see who'd be the victor, or you take the surrender/cowards way out and log off and let them raid you without resistance.

So...no. The ORP system is much better than no system at all, and it COULD be better than the ones on official if it was modified. Right now yes it's open for exploits, but change it a bit, and it could be golden.

And I already know about the tribe limits and such. Doesn't stop a very determined person from 'faking' they can be trusted and THEN insiding you once they got the right rank. Now look at the exploits...more in one area ain't it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DaGoodNamesWereTaken said:

If you have other stuff too do other then ark..

 

1. Dont complain about being offline raided.

2. Join a tribe or get some freinds

3. Play dedicated,

4. Play PVE

5. Cry in your bed

1. Didn't complain. Just stating how PVP isn't PVP in ARK and that it's grossly unfun to the point ARK is only alive as much as it is because of the modding and unofficial community. I can hate on it as much as I want until WC does or doesn't change officials, but I doubt they will so I'm staying where I am, on my private server, having probably more fun than any of you.

Lucky for me I learned to do #2-3 and have been having oodles of fun since.

5. Thanks for re-affirming that ARK mostly attracts jerks. I have a job that makes me enough money to afford my own house, feed myself, have pets and a loving husband. AND I'm having fun in ARK cuz I avoided officials. I got nothing to cry about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Ulta said:

The mod did NOT do that. You could alter how long it took for the immunity to kick in once the whole tribe logged off. It was a good solid 15 to 20 minutes (on the server I played that had it) before the immunity kicked in. So if you saw a tribe was threatening to come kill you, that was them being stupid and giving you enough time to log off should you decide to do that. But if a tribe was smart, they'd blindside you with an attack without warning. And if I was stupid enough to log off, my base would be exposed raw for 20 minutes for them to just up and raid it without me there. So it was unwise to log off if someone came and attacked you without warning. You were forced to fight back and see who'd be the victor, or you take the surrender/cowards way out and log off and let them raid you without resistance.

Some of the ORP mods did work just like that. But regardless you stating how that one works is just as bad. It has HUGE abuse potential. How can you not see that before posting. In just the few seconds after reading I can see, being the defender, how I would abuse the crap out of it. 

Lets first address your first point of not having advanced warning. IF you are even marginally competent in setting up forward turret towers or xplant creep spread you would have a lot of time from the the first attack to when they are pushing upon your base walls. I don't know if you have much experience in pvp but if you do try it out against well designed bases then you would find out it can take HOURS to go from attack start to breaching walls.

And now to the abuse part. I would have dumby tribes in an alliance so upon attack I would have my crew join that tribe and they would defend while my immunity timer starts ticking. Now lets say the ORP mod you are using is smart enough to now begin the count down until all allies are logged off as well. Then I would put a few guys in covered sniper towers so they would be safe from my turrets and then have them de-tribe and fight back the enemy with sniper fire till the ORP kicks in.

11 minutes ago, Ulta said:

Right now yes it's open for exploits, but change it a bit, and it could be golden.

Open is an understatement. But by all means tell me [specifically] how you would change it so that it can't be abused like a red headed step child?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The main thing to take away is that ark is a terrible game and it's grossly time consuming to try and keep up with unemployed and retired folks who don't mind spending 20 hours a day grinding explosives just so they can get their allies on and fill server cap to wipe everyone at 4am. And a base of 200+ auto turrets can be wiped in a matter of an hour or less with rock golems and stegos. Wildcard don't care at all. If they did care they wouldn't allow players to place c4 while riding a dinosaur like a stego which effectively bypasses your entire defense. Brontos with veggie cakes and metal ramps can soak a disgusting amount of bullets to the point where there literally is no reason to even grind autos at all. Plantx used to push the enemy Dino's and players back but I guess wildcard felt they were so overpowered that they should nerf ONE OF THE ONLY FORMS OF OFFLINE DEFENSE we had. It wouldn't matter anyways. Plantx will just get shredded by griffins doing dive swoops and barely take a dent with their 50,000 health. They have made this game so unbalanced that the ONLY viable option for tribes under 50 members is to play on an unnofficial server and even then there is too many problems and rarely any pvp. They ruined the game , that's the end of the story. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Mjsechrest said:

The main thing to take away is that ark is a terrible game and it's grossly time consuming to try and keep up with unemployed and retired folks who don't mind spending 20 hours a day grinding explosives just so they can get their allies on and fill server cap to wipe everyone at 4am. And a base of 200+ auto turrets can be wiped in a matter of an hour or less with rock golems and stegos.

I agree with the notion that automated base defense is weaker than attacking gear/dinos. But as for the grindy nature of the game I disagree. ARK is hard if played solo. But it becomes extremely easy if played with friends. IRL friends even better. Tribes need to come out of their social shell and start recruiting more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, johnm81 said:

I agree with the notion that automated base defense is weaker than attacking gear/dinos. But as for the grindy nature of the game I disagree. ARK is hard if played solo. But it becomes extremely easy if played with friends. IRL friends even better. Tribes need to come out of their social shell and start recruiting more.

We got wiped in less than one hour offline and we had 30 people maybe more in the tribe   About 300 turrets with 400 bullets in each on average (30 wyverns , we had brontos etc , built on a pillar etc) 

while tanking with stegos they c4ed the turret towers then c4ed into base while turrets were more then 3/4 full in bullets. Interior turrets drained with multiple stegos then generators destroyed by brontos tail swipe through walls. We only had a few people who could get on so it was a rip anyways  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Mjsechrest said:

We got wiped in less than one hour offline and we had 30 people maybe more in the tribe   About 300 turrets with 400 bullets in each on average (30 wyverns , we had brontos etc , built on a pillar etc) 

while tanking with stegos they c4ed the turret towers then c4ed into base while turrets were more then 3/4 full in bullets. Interior turrets drained with multiple stegos then generators destroyed by brontos tail swipe through walls. We only had a few people who could get on so it was a rip anyways  

 

41 minutes ago, Mjsechrest said:
  46 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

I agree with the notion that automated base defense is weaker than attacking gear/dinos. 

So you are agreeing with me agreeing with you? *confused*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No matter how many turrets you have it's still always easier to offline raid someone, the current ORP system is too exploitable why wouldn't people build there base on an allied alt account and leave it to be invincible. This bigger issue is the ddossing. We were recently at war with the beta tribe on our new Xbox official server, fought to there gates 3 times with a full war party brontos, gigas, war boat, ect only for them to doss and when we get back in the server everything is dead. There is no fighting against that. At least one of there members had his morals in a different place and insided the tribe after.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

 

So you are agreeing with me agreeing with you? *confused*

Essentially. I just want everyone to know that even if you have a large tribe with plenty of turrets etc it can be offline raided in a matter of a few hours. That's why you have to have 150 people in your tribe from every time zone and a discord chat to coordinate all the allies. And it's funny that even the mega tribes sometimes  get wiped by cheaters with aimbots and ddos. The game is simply trash now. There's no way to fix it except stop playing. It was more balanced two years ago  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mjsechrest said:

Essentially. I just want everyone to know that even if you have a large tribe with plenty of turrets etc it can be offline raided in a matter of a few hours. That's why you have to have 150 people in your tribe from every time zone and a discord chat to coordinate all the allies. And it's funny that even the mega tribes sometimes  get wiped by cheaters with aimbots and ddos. The game is simply trash now. There's no way to fix it except stop playing. It was more balanced two years ago  

Honestly, the gist of what you are saying is true, but I think its a little exaggerated. If attacked by a mega tribe sure. But most aren't. Most can provide a solid D with 5-10 players online. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, johnm81 said:

Some of the ORP mods did work just like that. But regardless you stating how that one works is just as bad. It has HUGE abuse potential. How can you not see that before posting. In just the few seconds after reading I can see, being the defender, how I would abuse the crap out of it. 

Lets first address your first point of not having advanced warning. IF you are even marginally competent in setting up forward turret towers or xplant creep spread you would have a lot of time from the the first attack to when they are pushing upon your base walls. I don't know if you have much experience in pvp but if you do try it out against well designed bases then you would find out it can take HOURS to go from attack start to breaching walls.

And now to the abuse part. I would have dumby tribes in an alliance so upon attack I would have my crew join that tribe and they would defend while my immunity timer starts ticking. Now lets say the ORP mod you are using is smart enough to now begin the count down until all allies are logged off as well. Then I would put a few guys in covered sniper towers so they would be safe from my turrets and then have them de-tribe and fight back the enemy with sniper fire till the ORP kicks in.

Open is an understatement. But by all means tell me [specifically] how you would change it so that it can't be abused like a red headed step child?

Well then yes you are right. There is nothing that can be done to salvage it, even if ORP was changed. With your explanation (sorta), I can see how it's exploitable no matter what. Unless making it so your alliance members also have to be offline for the immunity to work...but something tells me immediately that would be a bit farfetched, and I'm not in the mood to discuss it anyway.

I'm not a PVP nerd, and never will bit. I tried it years ago and even when the game was new, it wasn't fun. So I left without leaving a thread to complain about it after I did some research on unofficial and PVE mode. Most of what I speak is from word of mouth. So I'm just gonna leave this convo and let others who enjoy attacking offline bases go on. Regardless, if people were smart, they'd drop official PVP servers like a rock and either go to unofficial, or just quit ARK if it's so bad they gotta make a complaining thread in hopes the devs will notice. It's not PVP. It's Player verses previously-set-up-buildings.

I really wish I didn't have to say that...ARK's PVE potential is so strong, but it's 'PVP' is unsalvagable when it comes to fairness....and with that being ARK's lifeblood according to the devs, it's practically dead in the water for it's future. it was only fun in SOTF, but somehow people found that mode not fun enough to play so WC called it a fail and shelved it.

Anyway, have fun with this thread. I got nothing more to add to it. Just gonna end it by advising everyone to just stop complaining about Ark's 'PVP' and take action. Go to an unofficial or PVE, or just quit. Complaining doesn't do jack here. The only way WC will change things is if a TON of people quit playing out of the blue. They will notice the terribly low amount of players and MAYBE do something...but I wouldn't hold my breath (if the flyer nerf was anything to go by).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1st rule of PvP: build with a mindset someone bigger than you will wipe you. 2nd rule of PvP: you will wipe someone and they will wipe you.

You can't get attached to your stuff and you have to build in layers and shells and be the type of base that would be annoying to blow up. Also create fall back bases so if your wiped you can just pop back up.

The other thing is Community. Are you set up on a server that y'all treat the server as a kingdom or are you all at war with each other. Peace can build a beautiful defense when the "offline bullies" come. And if you are tired of being wiped look me up. Haven't been wiped in over a year...but did a lot of wiping ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello all,

Offline PvP raids, is part of the ARK Survival Evolved PvP. If you do not like it then there is PvP servers official with ORP (offline raid protection).

I can agree that the pteraGuys and GriffinBoys are taking advantage of the game raiding when you are offline. But regardless of what you think about it, still PvP.

Have fun.

Regards,

Ariana

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, MaHaBe said:

We had a metal base with Behmouth gates, 8 turrets and 50+ plant x.  Came on to find out 6 guys all on dragons took it all out. We were in middle of nowhere, no one around, no resources near us that everyone needed. They just did it to do it i suppose. 

Now getting raided has happened many times for me, and I usually dont care about it, but this time, they took out the only 3 dinos I have ever taken the time to tame on officials. Ptera level 52, Diplo level 37 and a pair of Dodo's . Tell me how is that fun, those should give you a sign that we arent very developed. 

Oh well, time to move to PVE server i think, too many trolls and AssHats out here these days. 

wait you're saying you had a full metal base, turrets, species x ........ and those were the dinos you had? what does a lvl 52 ptera even actually do? and that's what made you upset? I can't imagine that took more than 20 minutes to tame. i'd be more upset about the base that got wiped that you obviously made entirely without the help of worker dinos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Mjsechrest said:

We got wiped in less than one hour offline and we had 30 people maybe more in the tribe   About 300 turrets with 400 bullets in each on average (30 wyverns , we had brontos etc , built on a pillar etc) 

while tanking with stegos they c4ed the turret towers then c4ed into base while turrets were more then 3/4 full in bullets. Interior turrets drained with multiple stegos then generators destroyed by brontos tail swipe through walls. We only had a few people who could get on so it was a rip anyways  

I dont understand why peplos dont use other defences like dinos (Patroling Wyverns+ Dimos). Every base is Raidable but so it takes Weeks to get Raidet. We have 1k+ Dimos 30 Wyverns on follow on Brontos our Outdatet Rexes run oudside the base you cant them Throw away  So Stegos live not 3 sec.... And There Traps also in Games. Then you can set the Turrets in Different Modes so they cannot Tank with stego If they got killed by Dimos. They cannot tank while shoot rockets if you set differt distantce in your Tourrets. You can defend with 3 PPls against 20 if you prepared well...

And there is a lot of other poop you can do what help you to make the afford to raid you not worth... Build on High Area wehere no Landdino can come in. Build in Cave Entrace with 1k Turrets that all reach 1 Point with Traps and Dino Defence :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We need a middle ground PvP mode that isn't dominated by raiding.

There's nothing inherently wrong with offering raiding as a mechanic, it can actually be quite fun: but the problem is that ARK Official servers tend to offer only two extremes, with a large chunk of the playerbase desiring a middle ground.

PvE

  • Ruins feeling of survival due to over-expansion, spawn blocking
  • Enables griefing without the ability to fight off griefers (griefers kite dinos into bases etc).

PvP

  • Too easy to ruin PvE progression.
  • Forces you to endure raiding/wiping to experience actual fighting between players in the open world.
  • Allows alpha tribes to ruin servers for everyone else, depending on their temperament.

-------

We run into a situation where a large bulk of the ark audience simply does not like either of those options, but generally gravitates towards PvP because the PvE servers are so full, overbuilt and all-eaten-up already: PvP servers look accessible at a glance, even if they're a riskier choice in the long run (you roll the dice on whether the resident alpha tribe is obnoxious).

The problem is that while PvE is broken (to a large number of people), PvP fixes PvE but breaks the game in an entirely different way (raiding ruins everything that isnt raiding, sooner or later), unless you're entirely focused on the raiding aspects and happy to give up on the rest, PvP eventually becomes a problem on PvP servers.

There's a massive audience of people that want SOME pvp, SOME pve and SOME sandbox, but every aspect of the game has the potential to ruin the others.

  • You build too big, it ruins it for others by turning the jungle into a city - goodbye survival feels
  • You wipe everyone, it ruins it for others because they no longer have their stuff they spent hundreds of hours obtaining - goodbye progress
  • You build where you want to - it blocks key spawns - goodbye metal etc.

And yet, those points are  the key 'big goals' that are often touted: build big, wherever you want, rule the ark.

It's somewhat ironic that the sandbox aspects of the game - one of the key selling points of ARK - have the potential to be so detrimental to public official servers, because they aren't controlled.

That's what a true sandbox is - fully emergent gameplay: but I think a lot of people would prefer a more controlled, balanced, fair and competitive experience, over one where anything can happen.

Anything can happen quickly becomes "mob rule on yet another server, no one else gets to play".

Online permadeath modes are generally avoided by a majority of players, as even if they do create more excitement (and great streaming content usually), the feeling of loss is too frustrating. It's somewhat strange that default pvp death is non-permanent for survivors (considering it's easy and painless to level up to 60 in a matter of hours) whereas bases and tames are 'full permadeath' by default, despite being vastly harder to achieve and maintain than a moderately leveled character.

I think most people, if given the option to resurrect a key tame by deleting their character and starting afresh would do so gladly - and I think that's telling about the state of the game, with regards to progression lost.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ark PvP isn't PvP for the most part, no. Our 7 month old base on official servers got wiped by a tribe of 20+ while we were offline. It had 250+ turrets, towers all around the perimeter with tek behemoths, etc. I logged in and found a few scattered tames like 3 squids and an argy, and just gave them away to an ally and then logged off for good. 

ALL of those months spent preparing for raid defense. All of those months wasted over one night. Do I really care? no because the new official servers came out a few weeks later, so I moved there, started from scratch on Rag, and got raided, wiped about 6 times on multiple servers. Most of them were while I was offline, and by the way I can spend 10+ hours on Ark a day, and go offline for 6-8 hours because there's this thing called LIFE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...