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100% efficiency stats


MTek9

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6 minutes ago, SingleSidedPCB said:

I think i see where your confusion is coming from, i also play with fast breeding (20x) and i also play with the auto trough mod and on occasion when i'm in a hurry use the baby trough ;). when you use the trough to do the imprinting, sometimes you'll see 0% imprinted when in fact its 100% and sometimes the stats will show as a mix of imprinted and non imprinted stats. you have to leave render distance and come back for everything to show up properly (another side effect of the "timer optimization").

your also breeding for stats and imprinting and forcing mutations all at once, combined with stats not properly showing until you leave render and return muddies the waters on whats really happening with the stats.

My process is to breed for stats first, and get a all stats non imprinted 0 mutation breeding pair. then try for mutations and/or make an imprinted one. and my observations have always been in line with the wiki and what ark smart breeding shows me, the only non imprint non mutation stat bumps are in melee and sometimes food on the first generation only, and only when the parent(s) weren't 100% taming effectiveness tames.

I hope this helps clear up why you may be seeing something other than what most everyone else in the thread is saying. we all want the same thing here, accurate information. have a good day :)

I covered everything you mentioned in the video. Also, I stand by what I stated, there are random increases, I've had it happen on stats like oxygen, before they even implemented imprinting and mutations, and before those mods came out.

I never debated the melee and food boost, that is part of the mechanic. However there is a random chance for increases, rare but random.  I had 1 for sure in that video on weight I believe. There may have been two of them.

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7 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

I covered everything you mentioned in the video. Also, I stand by what I stated, there are random increases, I've had it happen on stats like oxygen, before they even implemented imprinting and mutations, and before those mods came out.

I never debated the melee and food boost, that is part of the mechanic. However there is a random chance for increases, rare but random.  I had 1 for sure in that video on weight I believe. There may have been two of them.

I watched the video and you did not cover everything i mention.. i took 1/2hr of my time to watch your video and try to help you understand whats really going on, yet you seem dismissive and combative in your response. I don't doubt at some point oxy, or any stat other than food and melee may have gotten strange mutations or round ups before mutations were even a thing....that's not how it currently works though. if your interested in seeing definitive proof for yourself, breed any pair of your babies and don't imprint them, and compare their stats to their original tamed parents. the only stats that will differ are those with mutations (easy to see as mutations are multiples of 2 levels) and food/melee if the parents weren't 100% effectiveness tamed (also easy to check with ark smart breeding). I'm not trying to attack you here, I'm only trying to help you understand how it currently works..

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1 hour ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

You are correct, it is OP, which is why they added a level cap on official to prevent super Dino's. Stat increases regardless of from imprinting or mutation can and do pass down... I manipulate it on my unofficials all the time to breed super Dino's.

Because it's modded high rate I can breed dozens of times in an afternoon, so I assure you I have ample breeding experience from which to speak of.

Ok. I can clearly see that you dont know the basic mechanics behind breeding.

Since you dont listen to reasoning behind WHY they dont inherit imprinted bonus, i'll just throw a link:

https://ark.gamepedia.com/Imprinting

Lzg1JPF.png

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1 minute ago, SingleSidedPCB said:

I watched the video and you did not cover everything i mention.. i took 1/2hr of my time to watch your video and try to help you understand whats really going on, yet you seem dismissive and combative in your response. I don't doubt at some point oxy, or any stat other than food and melee may have gotten strange mutations or round ups before mutations were even a thing....that's not how it currently works though. if your interested in seeing definitive proof for yourself, breed any pair of your babies and don't imprint them, and compare their stats to their original tamed parents. the only stats that will differ are those with mutations (easy to see as mutations are multiples of 2 levels) and food/melee if the parents weren't 100% effectiveness tamed (also easy to check with ark smart breeding). I'm not trying to attack you here, I'm only trying to help you understand how it currently works..

If I gave you the impression that I'm dismissive, or defensive my apologies, I should have worded things better. 

There is a big chance I cut parts of my explanations out of the video and don't recall doing it.

I can tell you the random increases do still happen. They are rare, but still occur.

I check each and every dino for stat changes and to see if they came from a mutation or not and did see at least one stat boost on a non mutated baby in that breeding round. I'm sure it was weight.

Also as a side note, even with both the Mutator and Baby trough set to force mutations, I didn't get them every time. Not sure if I left that part in the video, but I got several without any mutations at all.

My point with the video was actually to prove that the increases do get passed down generations... I should have made that more clear.

Thanks for watching the vid. I hope it was at least enjoyable.

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10 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Ok. I can clearly see that you dont know the basic mechanics behind breeding.

Since you dont listen to reasoning behind WHY they dont inherit imprinted bonus, i'll just throw a link:

https://ark.gamepedia.com/Imprinting

Lzg1JPF.png

I heard your reasoning, and I agreed the imprint bonus (that's the one you get when riding) is not passed down. However, stat increases from imprinting can and are.

Did I explain it more clearly that time?

 

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4 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

If I gave you the impression that I'm dismissive, or defensive my apologies, I should have worded things better. 

There is a big chance I cut parts of my explanations out of the video and don't recall doing it.

I can tell you the random increases do still happen. They are rare, but still occur.

I check each and every dino for stat changes and to see if they came from a mutation or not and did see at least one stat boost on a non mutated baby in that breeding round. I'm sure it was weight.

Also as a side note, even with both the Mutator and Baby trough set to force mutations, I didn't get them every time. Not sure if I left that part in the video, but I got several without any mutations at all.

My point with the video was actually to prove that the increases do get passed down generations... I should have made that more clear.

Thanks for watching the vid. I hope it was at least enjoyable.

No worries :)

It's difficult to keep track of which dino is which and even more difficult to keep track of their stats down the line as a viewer..

I'd likely have to spend an hour or more flipping back and fourth in the video to see exactly what you saw..

I've never used the mutator before, and its entirely possible you may be getting a glitch in stats as a result of using it and the baby trough to try and force mutations...

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18 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

I heard your reasoning, and I agreed the imprint bonus (that's the one you get when riding) is not passed down. However, stat increases from imprinting can and are.

Did I explain it more clearly that time?

 

Stat increases from imprinting are never passed down on official servers. Ever. I take screen shots of every single tame and baby of mine. Never once has that ever occurred. 

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17 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

I heard your reasoning, and I agreed the imprint bonus (that's the one you get when riding) is not passed down. However, stat increases from imprinting can and are.

Did I explain it more clearly that time?

 

Yes, you clearly explained the part that you dont have any idea about official servers' mechanics. I can think of 2 possibilities:

1) your private server is customized to the point that imprinting stat-bonus is inherited. But then its not an official mechanic.

2) you are just stubborn. In that case you can easily prove yourself wrong: have 2 fully imprinted dinos with same stats across the board have a baby. It will have less stats compared to its parents (or same, if you fully imprinted the baby). Both cases (lower stats without imprint or same stats as parents in case of full imprint) lead to same conclusion - imprinting stat-bonus (note that i never said rider-bonus, that is not inherited for obvious reasons) is not inherited.

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40 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

I heard your reasoning, and I agreed the imprint bonus (that's the one you get when riding) is not passed down. However, stat increases from imprinting can and are.

Did I explain it more clearly that time?

 

Lol no. Stats increased by imprinting are not passed down. 

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15 minutes ago, SingleSidedPCB said:

No worries :)

It's difficult to keep track of which dino is which and even more difficult to keep track of their stats down the line as a viewer..

I'd likely have to spend an hour or more flipping back and fourth in the video to see exactly what you saw..

I've never used the mutator before, and its entirely possible you may be getting a glitch in stats as a result of using it and the baby trough to try and force mutations...

Nah, it's not a glitch, I've noticed the same thing in SP when just using the baby trough... Most often you see it when you get twins or triplets, one or two wont get the mutation, but I've had it happen on single births as well. I think it's because of the way mutations are coded to be a random chance that even a mod can't force it 100% of the time.

BTW- I've been using AutoTrough forever and I don't know about you, but when DubCut first added those features to the baby trough I was like, dude is the man!

3 minutes ago, MTek9 said:

Stat increases from imprinting are never passed down on official servers. Ever. I take screen shots of every single tame and baby of mine. Never once has that ever occurred. 

Ok, so that is some interesting info right there. That would mean that WC disabled it and never put it in the patch notes, because you can clearly see in my video that I have them passed down 100% of the time in cross breeding. The stat increase becomes that baby's base stat so it gets passed on. I also remember them getting passed down on official before imprinting... That was a long time ago though and the stat roles did get a rework when they introduced the imprinting.

13 minutes ago, MTek9 said:

Ok, so back to my original question lol. 

If I know the efficiency that my wild was tamed at, can I calculate the possible 100% efficiency bonus that may be inherited by it's offspring?

Yes I believe you can... I've never done it, but using the taming calculators you could manipulate the data to figure it out just by entering the original wild stats & both the actual efficiency & the 100% value. Then by dividing the difference you would have a % value you could break down into a percent per percent ratio.... Lol... Hurts my head thinking about it. 

If you didn't know the wild stats I think you could go backwords to figure them out as well, but that would be a lot of work.  

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18 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

Yes, you clearly explained the part that you dont have any idea about official servers' mechanics. I can think of 2 possibilities:

1) your private server is customized to the point that imprinting stat-bonus is inherited. But then its not an official mechanic.

2) you are just stubborn. In that case you can easily prove yourself wrong: have 2 fully imprinted dinos with same stats across the board have a baby. It will have less stats compared to its parents (or same, if you fully imprinted the baby). Both cases (lower stats without imprint or same stats as parents in case of full imprint) lead to same conclusion - imprinting stat-bonus (note that i never said rider-bonus, that is not inherited for obvious reasons) is not inherited.

Ok, I'm totally up for a good debate, but we don't need to turn it into a hostile argument.

I run several servers and know my settings very well. There is no option to turn an inherited stat during breeding on or off. These are the options I use exactly for breeding on all my servers:

BabyMatureSpeedMultiplier 45
BabyCuddleIntervalMultiplier 0.015
BabyImprintingStatScaleMultiplier 5
BabyCuddleGracePeriodMultiplier 10
BabyCuddleLoseImprintQualitySpeedMultiplier 0.015
Hatch Multiplier 45
Mating Interval 0.01
Food Consumption 0.25

This: BabyImprintingStatScaleMultiplier is the only one that effects imprinting stats... It doesn't turn them on or off, it just effects how much of a bonus you get when one is applied.

If they have a code to disable the inheriting of stats on official, they don't publish it for us server admins to use.

BTW- for server admins, these settings will get you 100% imprint on every dino, which is something very hard to pull off when speeding things up... I know, it took a few excel spreadsheets & lots of testing. 

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2 minutes ago, MTek9 said:

Anyone know if the Windows program called smart breeder will do what I'm asking?

 

I don't use it myself, but I can tell you this video covers it in great detail, and I believe he uses it on official. He also has other vids that cover breeding with official settings very extensively.

 

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1 minute ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

I don't use it myself, but I can tell you this video covers it in great detail, and I believe he uses it on official. He also has other vids that cover breeding with official settings very extensively.

 

I'm pretty well versed in how breeding works, I just wanted to know if there was a formula or an app to show me the possible value of a stat from a wild tame to a bred baby at 100%

Thanks for everyone's input

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Just now, MTek9 said:

I'm pretty well versed in how breeding works, I just wanted to know if there was a formula or an app to show me the possible value of a stat from a wild tame to a bred baby at 100%

Thanks for everyone's input

That's why I linked this video... He specifically focuses on how to use that Windows app in it. The title is Smart Breeding App for a reason. It's worth the watch as it should answer your question.

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4 minutes ago, MTek9 said:

I'm pretty well versed in how breeding works, I just wanted to know if there was a formula or an app to show me the possible value of a stat from a wild tame to a bred baby at 100%

Thanks for everyone's input

ark smart breeding will show you *everything* you want to know about stats... its a very well made app.

it can extract base stats from anything bred, imprinted, leveled....doesn't matter. so it will also show you any bonus to food/melee as well.

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36 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

Ok, so that is some interesting info right there. That would mean that WC disabled it and never put it in the patch notes, because you can clearly see in my video that I have them passed down 100% of the time in cross breeding. The stat increase becomes that baby's base stat so it gets passed on. I also remember them getting passed down on official before imprinting... That was a long time ago though and the stat roles did get a rework when they introduced the imprinting.

Said like a true unofficial server player, who has no idea how the vanilla game plays.

 

"Imprinted stats pass on to the offspring."  I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.....

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5 minutes ago, SingleSidedPCB said:

ark smart breeding will show you *everything* you want to know about stats... its a very well made app.

it can extract base stats from anything bred, imprinted, leveled....doesn't matter. so it will also show you any bonus to food/melee as well.

Thank you. 

 

10 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

That's why I linked this video... He specifically focuses on how to use that Windows app in it. The title is Smart Breeding App for a reason. It's worth the watch as it should answer your question.

Thank you as well. 

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2 minutes ago, reidmarc said:

Said like a true unofficial server player, who has no idea how the vanilla game plays.

 

"Imprinted stats pass on to the offspring."  I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.....

I think you have a misunderstanding about the difference between vanilla & official... Many unofficial servers run vanilla and as admins we have to understand all the settings to properly run a server. Official have very many unique tweaks to the vanilla game that are not part of the vanilla settings.

EG- Needing to ascend to get to Rag, The Center is now part of the vanilla game but is turned off on officials... Geeze, that kind of makes officials run on non vanilla settings because the Devs themselves changed the settings for them.

Now I'm the one laughing. 

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1 hour ago, MTek9 said:

Ok, so back to my original question lol. 

If I know the efficiency that my wild was tamed at, can I calculate the possible 100% efficiency bonus that may be inherited by it's offspring?

The exact formula is in the very first reply of this thread. You just have to simplify and rearrange it to get desired results.

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57 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

Ok, I'm totally up for a good debate, but we don't need to turn it into a hostile argument.

I run several servers and know my settings very well. There is no option to turn an inherited stat during breeding on or off. These are the options I use exactly for breeding on all my servers:

I know how server settings work.

I have took the trouble to re-watch the part of the video where you breed hyenas. I'll brake it in parts so it will (i hope) sink in:

1. Hyenas that you use as parents have ~40k HP at 100% imprinting.

2. Freshly baked babies have ~20k HP each. 100% imprinted as well, but not yet updated (requires to either level them manually at least once or leave render range).

3. Once they are updated, babies will get 20% * BabyImprintingStatScaleMultiplier your sever has. So they will have double their HP or ~40k, same as parents'.

4. If babies were to inherit imprinted stats as you claim they do, your babies would have doubled their parents' max HP (and other stats) every genereation. That growth would have been exponential.

Conclusion: even on your heavily customized server babies DO NOT inherit imprinted stats.

 

You saying otherwise is just you not understanding game mechanics.

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7 minutes ago, DarthaNyan said:

I know how server settings work.

I have took the trouble to re-watch the part of the video where you breed hyenas. I'll brake it in parts so it will (i hope) sink in:

1. Hyenas that you use as parents have ~40k HP at 100% imprinting.

2. Freshly baked babies have ~20k HP each. 100% imprinted as well, but not yet updated (requires to either level them manually at least once or leave render range).

3. Once they are updated, babies will get 20% * BabyImprintingStatScaleMultiplier your sever has. So they will have double their HP or ~40k, same as parents'.

4. If babies were to inherit imprinted stats as you claim they do, your babies would have doubled their parents' max HP (and other stats) every genereation. That growth would have been exponential.

Conclusion: even on your heavily customized server babies DO NOT inherit imprinted stats.

 

You saying otherwise is just you not understanding game mechanics.

Hmmm... That would be valid if I hadn't ended up with 80k+ HP Hyenas, which I did. The next video in the series we take the final Bred battle pair into the swamp cave and you can see that entire teams health is into the 100+ k range as we level them up.

We can agree to disagree however. I'm totally ok with that. Also I really appreciate your approach to trying to prove me wrong this time around.

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12 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

That would be valid if I hadn't ended up with 80k+ HP Hyenas, which I did.

not shown in the video. The max health shown on your "final" breeding hyenas is 41k HP. And the females show 0% imprint and have ~20k HP at the end.

Your 80-100k on hyenas were probably from manual leveling. Your own words from the next video in the series: "we have leveled them to 80-100k hp while we were breeding" implying domesticated levels they got with passive exp. And surely enough the very first time you open inventory of the hyena to level it up had 1900 exp worth of first levels spent.

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