pvp Pvp Does Not Mean Kill Everything

[Cakies]

Is there really people in this game that haven't experienced the grind?  My question is why are there so many players dead set on small time in server attacks where there usually is unnecessary losses on both sides.  The way the game has transformed into being dominated my mega tribes makes one think that servers would work together to help it grow and allow for the funnest pvp of it all, the kind where there is strategy involved, along with 20 to however many attackers against a well defended base.  Where knowledge of the game is critical and its an enjoyable time because you actually chose pvp.  I feel like players think they are invincible or that their server is the only one out there so they will just attack anything that moves.

My thoughts have always been to create a strong friendly server where the grind is lessened, which opens up for more big time pvp.  I don't know if there is any real purpose to this post besides me being utterly confused that this small time senseless pvp still happens.  You know the ones, such as, going on a simple metal run and then being forced to try and fight off some ptera. 

I just feel like we should all understand that it's possible to make the grind less while upping the fun and actual pvp.

I guess if theres anyone else out there that feels this way let me know.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Most people who want to play like this play in one very large tribe. Thus creating mega tribes that have more manpower than some entire servers. If that is how you want to play I would suggest just joining a larger tribe. Also I do not know if you have been involved in this "funnest" type of PvP but a lot of it is not nearly as interesting as small time raids. You spend lots of time pushing, soaking and even just waiting for people to bring more gear and dinos.

[Ranger1]

18 minutes ago, Cakies said:

I don't know if there is any real purpose to this post besides me being utterly confused that this small time senseless pvp still happens.  You know the ones, such as, going on a simple metal run and then being forced to try and fight off some ptera. 

I just feel like we should all understand that it's possible to make the grind less while upping the fun and actual pvp.

So to be clear, you don't consider guerrilla efforts to interdict enemy resource gathering to be actual PVP?  Only major engagements and raids?

[TINYMAN]

37 minutes ago, Cakies said:

Is there really people in this game that haven't experienced the grind?  My question is why are there so many players dead set on small time in server attacks where there usually is unnecessary losses on both sides.  The way the game has transformed into being dominated my mega tribes makes one think that servers would work together to help it grow and allow for the funnest pvp of it all, the kind where there is strategy involved, along with 20 to however many attackers against a well defended base.  Where knowledge of the game is critical and its an enjoyable time because you actually chose pvp.  I feel like players think they are invincible or that their server is the only one out there so they will just attack anything that moves.

My thoughts have always been to create a strong friendly server where the grind is lessened, which opens up for more big time pvp.  I don't know if there is any real purpose to this post besides me being utterly confused that this small time senseless pvp still happens.  You know the ones, such as, going on a simple metal run and then being forced to try and fight off some ptera. 

I just feel like we should all understand that it's possible to make the grind less while upping the fun and actual pvp.

I guess if theres anyone else out there that feels this way let me know.

No offense towards you, but its PvP, not TvT (Tribe vs Tribe). Anything to slow down your enemies, or to stop their resource flow helps. That's what people do in real life. No resources, no expanding. No expanding means they get left in the dust.

[Harrist14]

PVP means whatever you want it to mean lol. 

[SmokeyB]

1 hour ago, MeMyselfAndI said:

Most people who want to play like this play in one very large tribe. Thus creating mega tribes that have more manpower than some entire servers. If that is how you want to play I would suggest just joining a larger tribe. Also I do not know if you have been involved in this "funnest" type of PvP but a lot of it is not nearly as interesting as small time raids. You spend lots of time pushing, soaking and even just waiting for people to bring more gear and dinos.

Yeah this,  them 20 man big raids arnt always that fun and take ages,  most of the time is just waiting around,  it even takes ages just to get organised to bring the stuff over to start the raid,  

It's much more fun to go out with a few rockets,  flame arrows and a longneck on your ptera and see what trouble you can get into. 

Plus big raids don't happen everyday,  people need something to do in-between 

[Demigod]

PVP just has unfair aspects. the established alpha in our server announced in global that no one could build in highlands. they typically raid everyone they see, regardless of the size of the base. 

so what can be done about that? i'm in a two man tribe. the alpha tribe has an average of 25-30 members on at one time. which means that no matter how many turrets or plant x or behemoth gates or spike walls or neutral dinos i have, the alpha will always be there to wipe us out.

"join a bigger tribe" then there is no sense of accomplishment for me. i've joined tribes with 13 boss-specs rexes and i just felt useless. felt like i was grinding for the leader, wasn't having any fun at all which defeats the purpose of it being a game. "recruit more people" i have tried. the one time i let an outsider (someone i don't locally know) into my tribe, i was insided and had a good portion of my stuff taken. i only trust my true friends and even they have the potential to be deceptive.

 for the moment, we have a tiny base hidden in the trees so we can farm the necessary turrets and plants for our main base on the hill, which is currently an empty shell. building there right now is pointless because with no defenses yet, they would keep blowing our place up. every day.

i don't even know if it's worth grinding for the turrets and bullets and defenses knowing that they will just blow us up once they manage draining our bullets. i almost don't see the point anymore.

it doesn't feel like what PVP "should" be, although i know that's highly subjective and everyone has a different opinion on what it is. but it feels more like a kid with a magnifying glass looking at ants. there is absolutely nothing i can do to be safe at this point. i just keep all of my important stuff in hidden chests around the map now because i'm too scared to put it into my base. ark DEFINITELY favors those in large tribes, and i understand that; there is nothing wrong with having a large tribe. but this game would be much more enjoyable if there was even a little bit more balance to the smaller guys. i would have loads more fun if i wasn't terrified to take my anky out to get metal in fear that the alpha is gonna swing by on a griffin and kill me and my tame for no reason.

at this rate i may switch to PVE. i initially liked how players could interact in PVP and how it brought a more competitive element to the game compared to PVE. but now it's just a bloodbath. kill on sight for anyone not in the big alliance. and honestly i don't mind being raided, it's part of the game. but they don't raid; they grief. kill all tames and destroy all items. i don't want to be one of those guys who complains about PVP but it's hard not to.

[LouSpowells]

PvP isn't this or that. PvP is exactly what you want to make of it. If you want to be an inconsiderate douche in PvP, that's your call. If you want to be a fluffy love-everything hippy, that's your call. It all depends on what type of community you're interested in being a part of.

Ultimately, the individual player will determine how they want to play...but there are ways to play this game that make other people not want to play the game. Griefing new players and underdeveloped tribes are perfect examples of that, and it's a mindset I find to be counterproductive and dumb as hell. It's like showing up to play a tennis match and taking a big steaming diarrhea dump on the court to get your opponent to forfeit. Yeah...technically you win, but how do you think your next match will go? Fairly quickly there won't be anymore players interested in dealing with your crap.

And that's the problem. There are two "P's" in PvP...you need them both. If you're chasing away all the other P's because you're being a giant D to everyone all the time, you'll be stuck playing with yourself in a big puddle of your own dookie.

Find the middle ground. Fight people worth fighting against as much as you want, but don't act like you aren't a piece of crap after you wiped a fresh spawn's wooden hut to steal his stone tools and 13 sparkpowder. Help out the new folks on the server, but don't freak out at everyone if you're a nice guy and catch a bullet in the noggin because you waved at the guy pointing a scoped longeck at you 200 yards away. Both mentalities suck.

 

[Ranger1]

The way this thread was originally started it does not really appear to be centered on the "Is it okay to grief new players" premise.  He indicated he was discussing tribes gearing up for larger scale conflicts being attacked during that process.  That would not appear to be a "new player under attack" situation.

[Demigod]

11 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

The way this thread was originally started it does not really appear to be centered on the "Is it okay to grief new players" premise.  He indicated he was discussing tribes gearing up for larger scale conflicts being attacked during that process.  That would not appear to be a "new player under attack" situation.

i'm sorry but OP never once mentioned large tribes being attacked in the midst of preparing for battle. my interpretation is that OP is tired of small-scale PVP attacks on individuals and would rather see efforts being put into alliances or merged tribes for larger raids. although i can see how this thread has slightly derailed, the premise is still that the small-scale pointless engagements do more harm than good. going after developing tribes or single players on metal runs hardly benefits anyone and does not contribute to the "strong friendly server" which OP desires.

[Ep1cM0nk3y]

They should really change pvp to free for all.. most pvp instances in multiplayer games revolve around rank or level based combat.., both are none existent in ark.  No problem with that,  I enjoy the wild west aspect of it, but pvp is too general of a term imo..

[BlueFox91]

Considering the point of PvP is to fight other players, you have to deal with getting killed even if you are a noob that literally just spawned into the server. Each PvP server has an alpha tribe and you are a potential threat in their territory. You, your dinosaurs, and structures are fair game to any player. By joining PvP you are asking to get recked and killed over and over. It is completely fair for another player to kill you on sight. If you don't like it then keep scouting the PvP servers until you find one of those "political" PvP servers where the alpha tribe or whole server makes the rules and as long as you follow them and don't cause trouble, you will be fine. If you still can't handle it, join PvE where land is pillars off. Each game mode has its pros and cons and players don't have a lot of room to complain about what is and isn't fair because most of the time I see players complaining about things that don't benefit them as an individual. The game modes were made to be played the way they were intended.

[ChocolateCake]

Ark Functions Like an MMO without GMs. I abandoned my Goal of creating a Gladiator arena on PVP servers after I got raided to oblivion.

[Critter]

I'd rather deal with small scale pvp than be raided. 

[Critter]

3 hours ago, Ep1cM0nk3y said:

They should really change pvp to free for all.. most pvp instances in multiplayer games revolve around rank or level based combat.., both are none existent in ark.  No problem with that,  I enjoy the wild west aspect of it, but pvp is too general of a term imo..

I whole heartedly agree 

[xDarkSoul18x]

Good luck. Ark PvP is a complete joke. I've played PvP games well over a decade so I know what I'm talking about. In fact Ark "pvp" is the most unbalanced crap I've seen to date.

Ark PvP is not about skill. It's not about balance. It's about How much you play and if you're a cheating ddos/duper. I'm sure any person that has played on a PvP server knows what I'm talking about. Even if they magically balanced the game and fixed all the glitches it still comes down to time played.

I'm sorry I have a job, life and family. I can't be on Ark to defend my base 24/7 from a "mega tribe" of dupers, ddosers and people that intentionally ddos the server to fill it up with their tribe so people CAN'T defend their base(because the server is full). I'll stick to player hosted servers tyvm, where things like you are saying can and do happen(factions/arenas/events).

[StabbyBobby]

7 hours ago, Cakies said:

Is there really people in this game that haven't experienced the grind?  My question is why are there so many players dead set on small time in server attacks where there usually is unnecessary losses on both sides.  The way the game has transformed into being dominated my mega tribes makes one think that servers would work together to help it grow and allow for the funnest pvp of it all, the kind where there is strategy involved, along with 20 to however many attackers against a well defended base.  Where knowledge of the game is critical and its an enjoyable time because you actually chose pvp.  I feel like players think they are invincible or that their server is the only one out there so they will just attack anything that moves.

My thoughts have always been to create a strong friendly server where the grind is lessened, which opens up for more big time pvp.  I don't know if there is any real purpose to this post besides me being utterly confused that this small time senseless pvp still happens.  You know the ones, such as, going on a simple metal run and then being forced to try and fight off some ptera. 

I just feel like we should all understand that it's possible to make the grind less while upping the fun and actual pvp.

I guess if theres anyone else out there that feels this way let me know.

On the server I play on, the tribes have agreed to not raid each other's main bases, as there seems to be plenty of everything to go around.  To stave off the boredom of a peaceful server, some players created a PVP village where people go and murder each other for loot.  

I've been killed at least 20 times there this week.  I've been trying different weapon load-outs to familiarize myself with ways of doing PVP that I'm not used to.

There has also been talk of so-called 'raiding bases', that are designed and built for the sole intention of being defended from an online raid, and stocked with loot as prizes for getting in.

It's fun, sure, but there is a certain thrill of stomping out a hated enemy that just isn't there when everyone on the server is pretty cool.  No one hates each other, so the motivation to kill passives and whatnot just isn't there.  The only base raid that I have seen when I was online was some unlucky German who got his spino instantly vaporized by some dude's attack squadrons of dilos.  They both laughed at it.

Your mileage may vary, I hope I added something to the discussion.

[jlhanna2]

4 minutes ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

Good luck. Ark PvP is a complete joke. I've played PvP games well over a decade so I know what I'm talking about. In fact Ark "pvp" is the most unbalanced crap I've seen to date.

Ark PvP is not about skill. It's not about balance. It's about How much you play and if you're a cheating ddos/duper. I'm sure any person that has played on a PvP server knows what I'm talking about. Even if they magically balanced the game and fixed all the glitches it still comes down to time played.

I'm sorry I have a job, life and family. I can't be on Ark to defend my base 24/7 from a "mega tribe" of dupers, ddosers and people that intentionally ddos the server to fill it up with their tribe so people CAN'T defend their base(because the server is full). I'll stick to player hosted servers tyvm, where things like you are saying can and do happen(factions/arenas/events).

You've basically hit the nail on the head.  Yes, PVP is open for play style interpretation, but the issue WildCard has is a lack of balance.  I'm not wanting to get philosophical or anything because it's a very complex problem.  That said, when servers are now locked down by mega tribes and small tribes can't even begin to play officials, there's a problem.

[Dreadnaught]

The pvp utopia you seek in my mind is impossible in ark.  I can imagine all kinds of large scale epic battles but within the confines of this game do they happen naturally or even at all?  From what others are saying its few and far between.  Another common thread ive seen in posts about this topic is small guys frustrated at the inability to advance and a few people in large tribes saying how boring it can really be at the top.  The problem is more with human nature than the balance of the game imo, this game is by no means balanced and do i think that is even possible with all the variables?  No i dont think it is but people would still treat others like crap even if it was, anonymity brings out the worst in people online especially if they can impose their will on others.

[StabbyBobby]

5 minutes ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

Good luck. Ark PvP is a complete joke. I've played PvP games well over a decade so I know what I'm talking about. In fact Ark "pvp" is the most unbalanced crap I've seen to date.

Ark PvP is not about skill. It's not about balance. It's about How much you play and if you're a cheating ddos/duper. I'm sure any person that has played on a PvP server knows what I'm talking about. Even if they magically balanced the game and fixed all the glitches it still comes down to time played.

I'm sorry I have a job, life and family. I can't be on Ark to defend my base 24/7 from a "mega tribe" of dupers, ddosers and people that intentionally ddos the server to fill it up with their tribe so people CAN'T defend their base(because the server is full). I'll stick to player hosted servers tyvm, where things like you are saying can and do happen(factions/arenas/events).

I feel ya.  I used to play DOOM over the local BBSs.  

The PVP that takes skill in ARK is not the end-game stuff, it's the low-level scrub combat that happens in the early game.  That being said, I can't even believe that people actually get competitive in a game so clearly not designed for or capable of handling actual skilled PVP.  It's almost a first person RTS / bad flight sim hybrid.  As much as I like ARK, I will be very honest about that.  The PVP is jank and wonky.

[Baton]

It does  Kill or be killed 

[TranqRex]

7 hours ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

I'm sorry I have a job, life and family. I can't be on Ark to defend my base 24/7 from a "mega tribe" of dupers, ddosers and people that intentionally ddos the server to fill it up with their tribe so people CAN'T defend their base(because the server is full).

This is pretty much the whole issue - balance. It feels like there should maybe be an alternative set of servers - perhaps something with a low max tribe number (e.g. 5 or something), no alliances etc. If you're on a PvP server with an alpha tribe that's got huge numbers, you might as well not bother. Even without a big alpha, your server can be invaded at any point and your stuff is wiped. The entire game premise, especially since cross-ARK, is basically "numbers wins". You can't get a foothold unless you have decent numbers and even then, when you're sleeping/working/whatever, the bigger tribe comes along and puts you back to zero. You need a balanced tribe with people from across the globe so someone is in-game 24/7. The methods used to drain turrets etc mean filling them can be a waste of time, or they can just be avoided.

ORP is pointless in PvP of course, so perhaps the only thing to do if you have a life is play PvE, or maybe find an unofficial where it's PvP but maybe has a low player population. I play PvE because of this. It's a shame, because I do enjoy battling other players but I know I'd never stand a real chance unless I come across some guys who are around the same size as my tribe. I'm not bitter about it personally, it's just how it is. I still have a great time in ARK and there are many other games to play when I feel like some free-for-all or team deathmatch etc.