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Cert Process


DiloFodder

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Curious, how long does microsoft's certification process typically take for game updates? To be clear this is not a complaint thread rather I am curious about how long it usually takes, mostly for future reference as I meant to try and track the time though the past few XBI updates but for one reason or another never got around to it.

 

Edit- decided I'll start tracking cert times in this thread, perhaps we can find an average now that ARK is fully released.

Cert Tracking:

v762: entered cert September 15th.  exited cert September 22nd

v763:

v764:

v765:

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It'd be nice to know why things apparently take so much longer when a game is released vs when it's in EA. I mean, the game still utilises the Live platform so would be subject to the same checks etc, so just what is the difference now?

I suspect an answer will not be forthcoming here, and definitely even less probable on the correct channel (Microsoft) for many reasons though.

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4 minutes ago, TranqRex said:

It'd be nice to know why things apparently take so much longer when a game is released vs when it's in EA. I mean, the game still utilises the Live platform so would be subject to the same checks etc, so just what is the difference now?

I suspect an answer will not be forthcoming here, and definitely even less probable on the correct channel (Microsoft) for many reasons though.

idk, perhaps there's more red tape for "official" games over EA games since EA games are meant to be able to be changed often with major changes but official games are not, so they've adjusted the cert process for that? but yes, ideally with it being the same process and same platform it ought to be the same. starting to sound like though that the cert times really are just at the whim of microsoft's policies.

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6 minutes ago, DiloFodder said:

I guess I'm aiming for the average span of time updates take for AAA games, if that varies too much then perhaps just the typical time for ark's cert processes.

There is no average. An important AAA game will get immediate priority. Other games can get shelved for weeks/months as Microsoft could care less. 

You can't take an average for Ark yet there's only been a couple cert patches so far. EA ones don't really count as Microsoft has a different standard for that period.

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2 minutes ago, DiloFodder said:

idk, perhaps there's more red tape for "official" games over EA games since EA games are meant to be able to be changed often with major changes but official games are not, so they've adjusted the cert process for that? but yes, ideally with it being the same process and same platform it ought to be the same. starting to sound like though that the cert times really are just at the whim of microsoft's policies.

As stated each patch is looked at individually and has individual criteria applied by Microsoft before it's given Cert.

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1 minute ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

There is no average. An important AAA game will get immediate priority. Other games can get shelved for weeks/months as Microsoft could care less. 

You can't take an average for Ark yet there's only been a couple cert patches so far. EA ones don't really count as Microsoft has a different standard for that period.

I see, well we can at least start taking averages ourselves, this update has been as of today 1 whole week. for microsoft are weekends business days or do they go by the typical 5 day business week?

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7 minutes ago, DiloFodder said:

I see, well we can at least start taking averages ourselves, this update has been as of today 1 whole week. for microsoft are weekends business days or do they go by the typical 5 day business week?

Cert is part of the Xbox business support team so they run 24/7. However, just like any other customer support office, they will only have a skeleton staff on during weekends and off peak times.

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40 minutes ago, DiloFodder said:

Curious, how long does microsoft's certification process typically take for game updates? To be clear this is not a complaint thread rather I am curious about how long it usually takes, mostly for future reference as I meant to try and track the time though the past few XBI updates but for one reason or another never got around to it.

Glad you asked the question, been dying to ask but didnt want to come of as an impatient bugger haha. While I am getting a bit impatient (I just want to tame an otter lol), it is generally interesting seeing how the whole process works, from Steam where they just chuck it out apparantly, to Microsoft where they take their time and assumily pick over it with a fine comb lol. Never followed a game in development before, so have found the whole process facinating. 

 

6 minutes ago, TranqRex said:

I can accept that, but struggle to see why it's different if a game is in Early Access...

Completely guessing here but I guess theres no need to check an EA game as thoroughly as a fully certified game. Saying that apparantly the first few updates after official release taake longer going througg the full certification process and then after that its back to the shorter process. 

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2 minutes ago, TranqRex said:

I can accept that, but struggle to see why it's different if a game is in Early Access...

Early Access is actually a Steam term. When a game is in Alpha or Beta testing Microsoft will allow issues like the console locking up, poor optimization, game breaking bugs etc, because the game isn't finished. Once a game is in full release Microsoft will expect a minimum level of performance and optimization for it's players. Basically, it's considered a finished title, it better run well or they won't allow it on their platform.

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4 minutes ago, AngrySaltire said:

Glad you asked the question, been dying to ask but didnt want to come of as an impatient bugger haha. While I am getting a bit impatient (I just want to tame an otter lol), it is generally interesting seeing how the whole process works, from Steam where they just chuck it out apparantly, to Microsoft where they take their time and assumily pick over it with a fine comb lol. Never followed a game in development before, so have found the whole process facinating. 

It's odd but as I was thinking about the cert process, they spend so much time for cert but sometimes still miss some pretty big bugs (like the SP region bug where if you left the region you last were in your game would crash and I was in the island's ice cave at the time : - P) so I am rather curious what they do during the certification.

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13 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

Early Access is actually a Steam term.

Sure, "Early Access" is, but "early access" is also just a way of describing a generic process... I actually can't think of a simpler one that works in a sentence and most people will understand ;) 

14 minutes ago, HalfSlabBacon said:

When a game is in Alpha or Beta testing Microsoft will allow issues like the console locking up, poor optimization, game breaking bugs etc, because the game isn't finished. Once a game is in full release Microsoft will expect a minimum level of performance and optimization for it's players. Basically, it's considered a finished title, it better run well or they won't allow it on their platform.

I suppose that makes some sense on certain levels, but does bring into question some of their policies. I mean, the game was actually certified with issues still existing, the Ragnarok patch brought others and the map itself is buggy and full of glitches - so if they have this strict approach to "finished" games, it begs the question why they allowed Raganarok through? Or at least they did a poor job of certifying that particular patch!

Who really knows I guess. Hopefully we don't have to suffer this delay for each and every patch.

It's kind of ironic - you have Sony who are opposed to things like cross play but seem to be pretty rapid with patch approval, and Microsoft who are actually supportive of cross play (with Phil Spencer even saying they wished Epic left the cross play active in Fortnite on the weekend!) etc but seem to be far stricter on their certification.

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7 minutes ago, DiloFodder said:

It's odd but as I was thinking about the cert process, they spend so much time for cert but sometimes still miss some pretty big bugs (like the SP region bug where if you left the region you last were in your game would crash and I was in the island's ice cave at the time : - P) so I am rather curious what they do during the certification.

It's totally different for each patch, from just a quick look at the code to full on play testing with a team for hours/days. Just depends on what's being added/changed. And yes they miss stuff, it's still a bunch of Humans doing the job.

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3 minutes ago, TranqRex said:

Sure, "Early Access" is, but "early access" is also just a way of describing a generic process... I actually can't think of a simpler one that works in a sentence and most people will understand ;) 

I suppose that makes some sense on certain levels, but does bring into question some of their policies. I mean, the game was actually certified with issues still existing, the Ragnarok patch brought others and the map itself is buggy and full of glitches - so if they have this strict approach to "finished" games, it begs the question why they allowed Raganarok through? Or at least they did a poor job of certifying that particular patch!

Who really knows I guess. Hopefully we don't have to suffer this delay for each and every patch.

It's kind of ironic - you have Sony who are opposed to things like cross play but seem to be pretty rapid with patch approval, and Microsoft who are actually supportive of cross play (with Phil Spencer even saying they wished Epic left the cross play active in Fortnite on the weekend!) etc but seem to be far stricter on their certification.

Actually, Sony is far stricter on certification. They don't do different rules, all games are treated as finished titles. Ark was the first not to and got it's own unique set of rules. Jeremy and Jesse did an interview about it.

Ragnarok is not part of the Ark game, it's a mod, and also still in beta, therefore it has totally different standards then Ark does as far as Microsoft is concerned. 

By Wildcards definition, and therefore Microsoft standards, the full release finished game is the Island and Scorched Earth. Soon Aberration will be added to that list.

The Center and Ragnarok are modded maps. Officially supported mods yes, but mods, not part of the core game. Therefore different standards, different rules from Microsoft.

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1 minute ago, TranqRex said:

Whilst all completely understandable, they are all also very 'convenient' reasons that allow studios/publishers leeway when they feel the need ;)

Not that it's different behaviour to any other industry mind!

Or for Microsoft to makes things impossible should they feel the need.

Also similar in any other industry. ?

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