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Thoughts on the Tamed Dinosaurs Limit?


Snoopy

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Personally, I don't like the tamed dinosaurs limit at all. 500 is not enough, especially when I'm breeding 20 dinosaurs at a time. WC did this to solve problems, but in my eyes, it causes more problems. I don't think I'm the only one thinking this though, I hear and see a ton of people complaining about it. That's just me though, what do you guys think about it all?\

EDIT: Already hit tame cap in a few weeks within the new servers being released.

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I have a few thoughts actually.

ARK is poorly optimized and no matter what percentage of performance gains they say they achieved in the patch notes I still find myself lagging and being randomly kicked from the server. From the amount of people that I talk to I am not the only one, and I have a low-medium range gaming rig (don’t have a 1080 Ti yet). First and foremost, WC needs to implement more optimizations, and frankly I am surprised they went to launch with it in the shape that it is. To supplement, they also need better server hardware, and possibly more servers with a method to better direct the flow of traffic.

While I don’t like the 500 dino cap in theory, I understand that there needs to be a limit. My tribe is sitting at roughly 350 dinos, and we don’t even have them all. Now let’s talk math for egg farm purposes…. There are 151 creatures in vanilla Island ARK, and about 100 of them lay eggs. Now to get the best egg laying rates you need a male and a female. You just jumped from 100 to 200 right off the bat. In addition, to have a good steady supply for even a small tribe you are looking at 2-4 females not just the 1. Let’s say it is 2 females, so 200 females plus your 100 males, and you are at 300 easy. Oh and I almost forgot... if you want the egg boost from the oviraptor and you have that many dinos, chances are your oviraptors aren't close enough to get mate boosted so you need more oviraptors. You have just used up 60% of your limit in the blink of an eye. That is not including your gathering dinos, pack dinos (hunting allos pack for example), or any “personal” or “sentimental value” dinos that you or your tribe mate must have. I would say that the 500 cap can work ok for a small tribe, but I can see where a large tribe would suffer.

Well what about after you have your 150 tame, and you don't need eggs from x dino? What do I do with any excess eggs? I give them away freely to just about any one on the server, so that others don’t need an egg farm. Does it work? I can't say for sure, but having a bunch of small tribes all trying to be independent farms is potentially much worse than having a single tribe at the 500 cap.

Finally, I never liked the amount of kibble or time it takes to tame stuff. You have to wait around for weeks or months even to get enough eggs and/or have someone online 24/7 (not likely in a small tribe) checking for eggs. Hence, one reason for the need for more dinos. The egg drop rate needs to increase and/or the kibble costs need to come down.

As a breeder, I always like to keep the parents and the best offspring. The ones that I didn’t want I usually gave away or traded to keep numbers somewhat in check. Thing is, here again you kinda want to keep the best of each gender plus their predecessors in case one of your breeding dinos dies (This is ARK after all, you want some kind of insurance). On top of that, if you are trying for super dinos there are like 4 stats to breed for. If you have perfect breeds on the first try with all the proper genders in a P, F1, and F2 sequence; you would need a minimum of 5 dinos to get your super dino. The chance of this happening is like 1 in a million. And lets not mention what would happen if we were trying to breed more than 1 species at once which is generally more effective time-management wise. Oh on top of all that... remember the egg farm? Chances are, you need a readily available supply of all 100 eggs if you want to get the maximum imprint on your baby dinos.

Taming top tier stuff requires an egg farm. Breeding and imprinting requires a complete egg farm. Egg farms have a lot of dinos. Everything is connected. You are constantly multiplying everything by 2 in this game. Want the mate boost? x2. Want to breed? x2 Want a pack of x dinos? x2 Want a back up in case ARK happens? x2 I think people need to stop disparaging people with more dinos or different tastes in ARK activities, and everyone needs to realize that it all adds up rather fast whether intended or not. Maybe more sharing and cooperation will mitigate the situation, but you will always have hoarders, selfish people trying to take advantage, or who are just competitive/anti-social/independent. I say the bulk of the blame ultimately rests on WC for the performance issues.

Sorry for the long post. In conclusion,

  1. More optimizations
  2. Better hardware
  3. Controlled server traffic flow
  4. A way to idle/disable dino animations while tribe is not online? I just thought of this. Seems like it could help.
  5. 500 works for a small tribe, probably not a large one (i.e don’t lower the cap again)
  6. Egg rates need to go up and/or
  7. Kibble cost needs to come down
  8. Maybe combine kibbles?
  9. Server wide delineation of tasks (egg farmers, breeders) and sharing of resources (This a communistic model and most likely won't work on a large server.)
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3 hours ago, ZaneC said:

I have a few thoughts actually.

 

ARK is poorly optimized and no matter what percentage of performance gains they say they achieved in the patch notes I still find myself lagging and being randomly kicked from the server. From the amount of people that I talk to I am not the only one, and I have a low-medium range gaming rig (don’t have a 1080 Ti yet). First and foremost, WC needs to implement more optimizations, and frankly I am surprised they went to launch with it in the shape that it is. To supplement, they also need better server hardware, and possibly more servers with a method to better direct the flow of traffic.

 

While I don’t like the 500 dino cap in theory, I understand that there needs to be a limit. My tribe is sitting at roughly 350 dinos, and we don’t even have them all. Now let’s talk math for egg farm purposes…. There are 151 creatures in vanilla Island ARK, and about 100 of them lay eggs. Now to get the best egg laying rates you need a male and a female. You just jumped from 100 to 200 right off the bat. In addition, to have a good steady supply for even a small tribe you are looking at 2-4 females not just the 1. Let’s say it is 2 females, so 200 females plus your 100 males, and you are at 300 easy. Oh and I almost forgot... if you want the egg boost from the oviraptor and you have that many dinos, chances are your oviraptors aren't close enough to get mate boosted so you need more oviraptors. You have just used up 60% of your limit in the blink of an eye. That is not including your gathering dinos, pack dinos (hunting allos pack for example), or any “personal” or “sentimental value” dinos that you or your tribe mate must have. I would say that the 500 cap can work ok for a small tribe, but I can see where a large tribe would suffer.

 

Well what about after you have your 150 tame, and you don't need eggs from x dino? What do I do with any excess eggs? I give them away freely to just about any one on the server, so that others don’t need an egg farm. Does it work? I can't say for sure, but having a bunch of small tribes all trying to be independent farms is potentially much worse than having a single tribe at the 500 cap.

 

Finally, I never liked the amount of kibble or time it takes to tame stuff. You have to wait around for weeks or months even to get enough eggs and/or have someone online 24/7 (not likely in a small tribe) checking for eggs. Hence, one reason for the need for more dinos. The egg drop rate needs to increase and/or the kibble costs need to come down.

 

As a breeder, I always like to keep the parents and the best offspring. The ones that I didn’t want I usually gave away or traded to keep numbers somewhat in check. Thing is, here again you kinda want to keep the best of each gender plus their predecessors in case one of your breeding dinos dies (This is ARK after all, you want some kind of insurance). On top of that, if you are trying for super dinos there are like 4 stats to breed for. If you have perfect breeds on the first try with all the proper genders in a P, F1, and F2 sequence; you would need a minimum of 5 dinos to get your super dino. The chance of this happening is like 1 in a million. And lets not mention what would happen if we were trying to breed more than 1 species at once which is generally more effective time-management wise. Oh on top of all that... remember the egg farm? Chances are, you need a readily available supply of all 100 eggs if you want to get the maximum imprint on your baby dinos.

Taming top tier stuff requires an egg farm. Breeding and imprinting requires a complete egg farm. Egg farms have a lot of dinos. Everything is connected. You are constantly multiplying everything by 2 in this game. Want the mate boost? x2. Want to breed? x2 Want a pack of x dinos? x2 Want a back up in case ARK happens? x2 I think people need to stop disparaging people with more dinos or different tastes in ARK activities, and everyone needs to realize that it all adds up rather fast whether intended or not. Maybe more sharing and cooperation will mitigate the situation, but you will always have hoarders, selfish people trying to take advantage, or who are just competitive/anti-social/independent. I say the bulk of the blame ultimately rests on WC for the performance issues.

 

Sorry for the long post. In conclusion,

 

  1. More optimizations
  2. Better hardware
  3. Controlled server traffic flow
  4. A way to idle/disable dino animations while tribe is not online? I just thought of this. Seems like it could help.
  5. 500 works for a small tribe, probably not a large one (i.e don’t lower the cap again)
  6. Egg rates need to go up and/or
  7. Kibble cost needs to come down
  8. Maybe combine kibbles?
  9. Server wide delineation of tasks (egg farmers, breeders) and sharing of resources (This a communistic model and most likely won't work on a large server.)

I agree with what you said. You sumed up the main gameplay design flaw in ARK. It really irritates me consindering how much the need of having egg farm affects the game, performance and servers,  Wildcard did not feel like to address it during Early Access. They kept adding redundant features and built entire game on heavly unpolished mechanics. 

The kibble overhaul must be done as soon as possible.  In my opinion eggs have to be removed from kibble recipes and replaced with specific meat of animal that wild dino prefers to feed on. 

WC has to optimise their game finally working on DX11. No Vulcan nor mythical DX12 would help, because there are other core areas of game that have to be optimised. I recommand reading latest PC Gamer article of ARK performance test. (You need the most powerful single GPU on this planet 1080Ti to run this on epic full hd 60fps). ARK relies on GPU power too much. We can't have better hardware,  because there is no better hardware than this. 

The limit of tamed dinosaur has to stay. If I'm not mistaken, wild dinosaurs are around 22000-26000. Hardware wouldn't be able to handle unlimited tamed dinosaurs. 

 

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i have friends with multiple servers they play on. They have egg layers on one server, they raise dinos on another, and access to bases on all the base maps before rag. They had to change it to a limit of 500 per tribe simply because the servers reached the dino cap for the server and less and less wild dinos would respawn

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4 hours ago, SavageLandOrangeRanger said:

500? I thought it was 200. 500 is fine for me.

For pc, it is 500 per tribe on official pve servers.

Patch Notes v255.0

Quote

* Added option for per-Tribe Dino Tame limit, enabling on Official PC PvE servers with a max of 500 Dinos Per Tribe (with on-screen indicator of Tribe Dino count). To use it, run with ?MaxPersonalTamedDinos=Number

Of course there are ways around this as others mentioned.

2 hours ago, Lewiatan said:

WC has to optimise their game finally working on DX11. No Vulcan nor mythical DX12 would help, because there are other core areas of game that have to be optimised. I recommand reading latest PC Gamer article of ARK performance test. (You need the most powerful single GPU on this planet 1080Ti to run this on epic full hd 60fps). ARK relies on GPU power too much. We can't have better hardware,  because there is no better hardware than this.

You are 100% right, though I was referring to server hardware. Not sure what they currently have or what is on the market. Servers and internet aren't my thing. Not only that but it seems like you would alienate a sizable portion of your customer base when your game demands the tip-top GPUs especially with GPU prices the way they are atm.

You are going to laugh, but I actually did just read the article. Here is the link for anyone interested.

Ark: Survival Evolved is the new Crysis of PC hardware

Imo it just goes to show that it is not the people that have tons of dinos or structures that are causing all our problems like some would have us believe, it really is the game itself. If you read the article you will see that the tests were run single-player without all of that stuff. Now I am not saying that server populations and maxed dino limits don't make matters worse, but with results like this you have to wonder how much do those things actually impact performance. Maybe the impact is minuscule in the grand scheme of things but just enough to tip it over the edge? If the game was properly optimized would we care if the dino limit was 1,000 or 200?

One last point for me to add. I do like the concept of this dino prefers this other dino's egg. It gives a food chain kind of feel to the game, but something has got to give and if they can't improve in other areas then this kibble issue should be addressed.

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30 minutes ago, Jay89 said:

you guys don't know how lucky you are its 200 on xbox

Not anymore they increased it a bit at launch I am sure. Cant remeber off the top of my head but last time I checked on my legacy island server it was at least 250 (could be higher) and Ragnarok limit was much much higher going from memory.

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To half the people in this thread - you realize you're the reason for this limit, right?
There is a max number of tames a server can accomodate, because of technical limitations. The tribe cap is there because you're not the only person on that server that wants to tame stuff. Because it's impossible for everyone to have it all, no matter how useless. The cap isn't there to say you have to jump through hoops to be a selfish ass, it's there to tell you to reconsider those 5 parasaurs you still have around when you're not taming anything smaller than a giga anymore.
Every time I see people try to demonize the cap, they always start with "there are this many egg layers in the game, times such or such to get a proper egg laying team of each species." Stop. Right there. Your whole wall of text has already been rendered useless. You thinking you're entitled to egg layers you won't use in years of gameplay is not a valid reason to deny other players their actually used tames. It takes you ten minutes to look around and actually figure out which eggs you need, and which you don't. If you can't do that, you're the problem this cap is trying to fix.

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On 9/19/2017 at 2:14 AM, Snoopy said:

Personally, I don't like the tamed dinosaurs limit at all. 500 is not enough, especially when I'm breeding 20 dinosaurs at a time. WC did this to solve problems, but in my eyes, it causes more problems. I don't think I'm the only one thinking this though, I hear and see a ton of people complaining about it. That's just me though, what do you guys think about it all?\

EDIT: Already hit tame cap in a few weeks within the new servers being released.

pve or pvp?

In pve you really don t need that many dinos...

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Get your egg layers. Get the eggs, then kill the egg layers that are easy to tame (Parasaurs, raptor's, dodo's, etc.) when you get like 200-300 eggs from them which isn't that long. Now you have enough for several imprints and to tame another dino when you start to get low on those eggs again.

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7 hours ago, Housatonic said:

To half the people in this thread - you realize you're the reason for this limit, right?
There is a max number of tames a server can accomodate, because of technical limitations. The tribe cap is there because you're not the only person on that server that wants to tame stuff. Because it's impossible for everyone to have it all, no matter how useless. The cap isn't there to say you have to jump through hoops to be a selfish ass, it's there to tell you to reconsider those 5 parasaurs you still have around when you're not taming anything smaller than a giga anymore.
Every time I see people try to demonize the cap, they always start with "there are this many egg layers in the game, times such or such to get a proper egg laying team of each species." Stop. Right there. Your whole wall of text has already been rendered useless. You thinking you're entitled to egg layers you won't use in years of gameplay is not a valid reason to deny other players their actually used tames. It takes you ten minutes to look around and actually figure out which eggs you need, and which you don't. If you can't do that, you're the problem this cap is trying to fix.

Of course there is a limit and it is there for a reason. We all know this, and to my knowledge, no one on this thread has argued that there shouldn't be one. It has simply been about what the limit should be and how we can streamline things.

Why shouldn't I be able to have it all? I have played many other games where I pretty much can have it all. Imo ARK shouldn't be any different, and the only reason it is is because of the poor optimization. One possible solution would be to say that every one should play single-player, host their own server, or buy a better GPU, etc. but that is not feasible or fun for everyone else.

Maybe they should reconsider those 5 parasaurs, but who are you to demand that of them? Some people breed them. Others actually use them at cap (I know crazy right :) . Maybe they spent hours in ARK and that was their very first tame on the first day ARK came out. Not to mention that yekrucifixion187 had a very good point. What happens when you get rid of those parasaurs and you eventually get low on eggs cuz they do expire ya know? My point is you may be 100% right that they don't need 5 parasausrs, but who are you to judge. You don't know the whole situation: number of tribe members, how many eggs they actually go through, if they are breeding those parasaurs and what stats they are working on (already told you that you need 5 minimum to breed and that is an ideal situation often it is not nor does it account for mass breedings which again is 10x more time efficient than just 1 breed at a time), etc. I know for my tribe with 1 pair of barys it took months with several hours of gameplay almost daily to get 10 eggs and still didn't have the eggs to tame a 150 of whatever eats bary eggs the following month. There are too many useless dinos that we only keep cuz it's egg is valuable. If egg rates went up and kibble cost went down or there were fewer kibble options, half the problem goes away and maybe you can get by on 1 pair of each dino (that is still 200 dinos). Furthermore tame times are imo still a bit too long. I realize all this cheapens the dino but if dinos are cheap people would more readily part with them.

Sorry if stating facts sounds like "demonizing" but it is not. ARK in its current state requires someone to have an egg farm of some sort somewhere down the line if you want to enjoy the game to its fullest. The game has a few fundamental flaws whether you want to admit it or not. It is not all the player's fault.

 

 

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