Why Ark is fundamentally flawed as a competitive game.

[Octia]

4 hours ago, KurbbieStompp said:

you can solo play easily on no tame. dont request the game to be easier because youre having trouble 1v20. get a tribe

 

We'll just take your word for it...Also, "no tame"? We're talking official servers here.

[Octia]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:30 AM, Jacira said:

No, it doesn't work as a competitive game because free time trumps skill in Ark. 

Your viewpoint about hiding away is flawed because there isn't only 1 map you can hide on. Transfer to a different smaller server and build up there. Then tx back when you're ready to fight. Alas, fighting back is a moot action because no matter how long you grind for. They will always beat you.

Free time and Friends is what wins in Ark. Not being unable to hide.

No, it isn't flawed. These megatribes span across most servers now.. We're talking thousands of players working together. There is nowhere to hide; anyone who doesn't realize this hasn't had a megatribe actively hunt for them across servers.

[Octia]

On 9/15/2017 at 6:35 AM, Jlmaples said:

This.. lol. I bought the game on steam when it was 20 bucks. I've been in 3 tribes for about a month each time. So totaling 3 months. Give or take a month. Other than that I've played solo. I would like to start by questioning your logic. If I'm hiding in the woods with a gun. If there are 50 people in those same woods looking for me.. well no duh bro.. you won't be able to hide. That is your problem. You assume that to fight the alpha or mega you have to do it all on their server. This is where you went wrong friend.. the possibility of transferring items, characters and tames completely shuts down your argument. You aren't supposed to be able to hide from 50 people on their server man. That's why you base in one server tame in another then pick them off on theirs just to retreat again back to yours. Please tell me how they can find you with my technique. The problem is how you are attempting to accomplish your goal. Just this morning I uploaded 3 iguanadons and 20 c4 to the oblisk. Guess what I did tonight. I got 3 iguanadons killed and blew up a bunch of their stuff. Sure they know where I tamed the iguanadons. But let's see if you were paying attention. Will they find me?

Just adding, no I alone did not wipe the mega. But due to my attack a few other tribes stepped up and took advantage of the alpha members chasing me down. Nearly all their xplants and turrets are now gone. They have no choice but to rebuild. They can't afford to continue attacking. Due to my 3 hours or so of farming I cost them days. This is the problem with many new players. You think that tribes are invincible. You think they can shut you down no matter what. When reality.. the bigger they are the easier they can be found. And of they can be found they can be inconvenienced. It's all about effort.

Once again. They're across multiple servers. If they're looking for you, with thousands of members, they're going to find you.

This is the point you're not getting. You think i'm just talking about individual servers. Listen, if you can be forced off one server, you can be forced off any server, if you can be forced of any server, you can be forced off the game.. That is potentially possible right now with the current design of the game. If enough people band together, they could stop someone playing on official if they wanted to. The potential is there; and it is already starting to happen.

You speak like someone who is naive to the fact of how cancerous these megatribes have become. Have you ever been a real enemy to a megatribe? 1000+ members .. How long do you think it takes them to check all the official servers? 

This may not have happened to you, but the fact is it COULD happen to you. And when/if it does, you'll  regret questioning my logic.

Just the POTENTIAL of this should be a wake up call to how much of an issue this is. But that the potential is currently being realized...

There is NOWHERE to hide. If the developers think that there is, they need to wake up to the reality that this just isn't the case; and they need to wake up fast or they're going to start losing players fast.

[Cullis]

On 13/09/2017 at 5:07 AM, Octia said:

How can you have a competitive game when your opponent decides the outcome? You can't.

 

Tell me honey where the devs or anyone, really, said that Ark is a 'competitive game'. It's not. It's a sandbox.

[Crows]

7 hours ago, Cullis said:

Tell me honey where the devs or anyone, really, said that Ark is a 'competitive game'. It's not. It's a sandbox.

But it doesn't need anybody to say that it is competitive because it actually is! on PvP servers, you couldn't get any more competitive if you tried!

[Crows]

I actually quit Ark, or so I think I have... since I haven't had any incentive to log on in weeks. Friends have offered me the opportunity of joining their big* tribe (30+ members) and even a megatribe, but I have declined. I could explain why, but it would be pointless because it's already pretty obvious. I want to play as a small tribe, not a big tribe. When it comes to Ark PvP, it's quite obvious that it isn't designed for solo/small tribes whatsoever, unless they get completely left alone and even helped by the tribes who're dominating, which is rare. Official PvP servers are already dying over on PS4 last time I checked anyway. Obviously not all servers, but I've seen a lot of them with low population at prime time because of how aggressive the alpha tribes are and they even block spawns with boxes, despite it being against the rules.

[Fascinatives]

There is actually a fair few 5-10 man groups that go toe to toe with the bigger tribes, all a bit of fun,

[SlipperySquid]

1 hour ago, Crows said:

But it doesn't need anybody to say that it is competitive because it actually is! on PvP servers, you couldn't get any more competitive if you tried!

There is no competitive game play. It has its own unique competitive scene.

 

1) Get enough players so that your home server has got at least 65/70 at all times if not 70/70 or 100/100.

2) Take a second server to raid from so even if you are caught raiding and a few dinos die you mislead them to other servers.

3) Work on lagging out your server so if your getting your poop pushed in you can crash the server.

4) If the above fails buy more accounts and just aim bot your way to a safe server.

 

That is competitive i guess however that is so far beyond competitive its more like life people are so worried to lose anything in a video game that they would rather cheat and exploit then just enjoy the game. Then again i know a large amount of cheaters that love cheating because it makes others upset so its kinda silly but that is games now days.

[SlipperySquid]

1 hour ago, Crows said:

I actually quit Ark, or so I think I have... since I haven't had any incentive to log on in weeks. Friends have offered me the opportunity of joining their mega tribe (30+ members) and I have declined. I could explain why, but it would be pointless because it's already pretty obvious. I want to play as a small tribe, not a big tribe. When it comes to Ark PvP, it's quite obvious that it isn't designed for solo/small tribes whatsoever, unless they get completely left alone and even helped by the tribes who're dominating, which is rare. Official PvP servers are already dying over on PS4 last time I checked anyway. Obviously not all servers, but I've seen a lot of them with low population at prime time because of how aggressive the alpha tribes are and they even block spawns with boxes, despite it being against the rules.

30+ members LEL thats a small tribe i know of 4 mega tribes 180+ members each that if one attacks another ones server the others will step in so its pretty stale trying to find people to attack hence it works that we all just attack lowbies that have no ties to any server. Please note i said tribe this is not there alliance it goes well beyond 300+ players for each alliance.

[Serious]

The issue of megatribes and alliances has been around for a very long time. All PvP survival games suffer similar issues but not all large scale PvP games suffer the same.

Fixing it to some extent would be easy, just limit tribes to 10 players and no alliances. I can't see that happening either. Complaints would be instant and very loud.

Without a strict limit on tribe size there will always be the same issue. If a tribe can and does has more than half the capacity of a map it will always tend to dominate.

There is an alternative, provide a separate battleground with three or more sides so that players can compete away from their home map and in a more balanced way. This doesn't need people to check but does need some control over what they can bring onto the map.

[ArianaGaming]

Hello,

I didn't read all comments but a leaderboard of  some kind would help. This is not a suggestion to WC. maybe someone already mention it in the tread?

Leaderboards always make games competitive.

/Ariana

 

[Crows]

22 hours ago, SlipperySquid said:

30+ members LEL thats a small tribe i know of 4 mega tribes 180+ members each that if one attacks another ones server the others will step in so its pretty stale trying to find people to attack hence it works that we all just attack lowbies that have no ties to any server. Please note i said tribe this is not there alliance it goes well beyond 300+ players for each alliance.

I meant big tribe, not megatribe, typo... the megatribe I've been invited to has 200+ members but my friend's big tribe has 30+ members, is what I'm saying. I don't even care how big tribes are though, they've ruined Official servers for the majority of players who aren't in their circle, simple as.

[SlipperySquid]

12 minutes ago, Crows said:

I meant big tribe, not megatribe, typo... the megatribe I've been invited to has 200+ members but my friend's big tribe has 30+ members, is what I'm saying. I don't even care how big tribes are though, they've ruined Official servers for the majority of players who aren't in their circle, simple as.

Yea i get what your saying i wished something could be done about it but nothing will. Fortunately if you can play as a farming bitch getting in to these 300 man tribes or alliances are fairly easy the issue is solo players that come to the forums and complain about the game are not those types of people. When a solo player gets told you cant attack anyone they will before the day is out pick and drop someone with a ptera or something like that and end up being kicked after a month or so.

[Crows]

8 minutes ago, SlipperySquid said:

Yea i get what your saying i wished something could be done about it but nothing will. Fortunately if you can play as a farming bitch getting in to these 300 man tribes or alliances are fairly easy the issue is solo players that come to the forums and complain about the game are not those types of people. When a solo player gets told you cant attack anyone they will before the day is out pick and drop someone with a ptera or something like that and end up being kicked after a month or so.

Ptera picking and dropping is such a classic lol it has gotten so many small tribes wiped in the past, and probably still does today... "You picked my alliance member, you're done!" 

That's another thing about big/megatribes... they usually want you to join so you can farm for them/make yourself useful, and fair enough, it's a team effort but I find that it's usually never-ending farming to keep a constant supply of ammo, resources, etc etc. I did that for 7 months as a tribe of 3 on official pvp and it wasn't too bad because I had the freedom of choice, until generators needed refilling (because no one else would do it,) but I could do whatever I wanted without the fear of a member insiding me or even getting myself kicked for whatever reason.

IDK what they could do either... it's a tough one 

[jaypak]

Good points from op and some good replys... I've been in 2 mega tribes (90 players and 110 players) and 1 small tribe (10 players)

 

The small tribe everyone was happy that we had a lvl 200+ argy each and a new set of flak armour lol... if your bird dies you need to go tame a new one

 

The mega tribe a would walk from one end of the hall to the other end of the hall and there is rows and rows of lvl350 pteranodons, rows and rows of lvl 350 argy... if one dies, doesn't matter use another

 

Then there's the vault room... you couldn't count the amount of resources, items, armours and weapons at your disposal where as small tribe are fighting over a purple axe and if your lucky a yellow pick and everyone is happy that they made 2000 ingots

I met a small group of 3/4 players (deodre) and will say they were far from mega tribe but that small team had there sht together... they knew what to do and how to do it... regardless of how good they were/are tho... they could never and didn't out resource or out man and out Dino the mega despite valiant efforts 

Even if wc reduced the tribe numbers to 10 then a bigger tribe would just ally each other as not everyone gets that the server is for smaller tribes 

 

Best thing a could say is. Learn from other games. Have pve biomes where you can't get attacked in and have pvp biomes where people can fight each other... place the majority of resources in the pvp areas but still have some resources in the pve areas but not as much then that gives the tribes something to fight for but also let's the smaller of the tribes amass enuth stuff to possibly go fight the guys controlling the pvp resources lol..

 

it is also possible to make it happen like that, if you look at se map. When there's a lighting storm your weapons don't work so should be easy enuth to make pve parts and pvp parts

Ano it's out of beta but that doesn't mean the game can't still be improved, added to or looking for new ways to make it better and I could guarantee that PvEvP servers would out populate the other 2 easy

PvE servers

PvE servers

PvEvP servers

[Crows]

5 minutes ago, jaypak said:

Best thing a could say is. Learn from other games. Have pve biomes where you can't get attacked in and have pvp biomes where people can fight each other... place the majority of resources in the pvp areas but still have some resources in the pve areas but not as much then that gives the tribes something to fight for but also let's the smaller of the tribes amass enuth stuff to possibly go fight the guys controlling the pvp resources lol..

I like this suggestion a lot to be honest. There's no safe biome for smaller/solo tribes to start in and that would definitely be ideal so that they don't get ruthlessly killed/caged/wiped by more established tribes.

The important resources could be around the center of the map so that anybody leaving the safe zone would need to travel there to gather in the unsafe zone.

The only issue is making it so that the big/established tribes can't exploit the safe biome and build there so they can't be touched. I can't think of a solution to that at this moment....

[jaypak]

3 minutes ago, Crows said:

I like this suggestion a lot to be honest. There's no safe biome for smaller/solo tribes to start in and that would definitely be ideal so that they don't get ruthlessly killed/caged/wiped by more established tribes.

The only issue is making it so that the big/established tribes can't exploit the safe biome and build there so they can't be touched. I can't think of a solution to that at this moment....

It would come out at 50/50 I guess... as soon as the new servers opened you had everyone joining and building there own bases so a new PvEvP server would have a mix of the same different tribes all claiming parts of the map and if you could upload then obviously only to other PvEvP servers not normal pvp servers... the big tribes would yes have a good safe base where they can't get touched but some practically already have that. the average tribe would have that too or eventually have that... 

[Deathwaits]

I can understand your frustration OP, but you are not seeing the bigger pitcher.

First there is nothing stopping you from joining one of these "alpha" tribes and reaping all the benefits you are complaining about. There is also nothing stopped you from making your own "alpha" tribe. Yes you have to be creative and find ways to keep your size unknown, but this can be accomplished by lots of smaller bases and having a good location to hide your valuables.

Second, it would not be balanced if a 1 or 2 man tribe posed a huge thread to a much larger tribe. Yes. even a solo player can raid a alpha tribe if left unchecked, but you will need to spend much longer actually acquiring all the resources need for the task, where as they have enough players to accomplish the same thing in a much shorter time.

Lastly, it is possible to play as a solo player or small tribe and either co-exist, hide, or push back at the "alpha" tribes. There are still ways to keep yourself mostly hidden and safe, there are also ways to make raiding you a PITA.

You can build up maze bases that are empty... they invest the time and resources into a few of these bases only to find nothing of value inside and eventually they will get more frustrated with them than they are interested in getting something good. You can also take advantage of some smart building practices. I have built several bases which had a false back... meaning my base might have been 5x6, but when you are inside you only see 5x5 and the wall in the back is actually where all my loot is hidden.. yes if they come breaking in from that direction it isn't as effective, but many times I have been raided and they took the easy items they THOUGHT was my good loot.. only to leave all my most valuable bp's safely tucked away in the false wall area.

 

There is more to this game than just being an "Alpha" tribe and there are also many ways to play this game that are fun and rewarding. I have only been a member of a true "alpha" tribe once and I can assure you it got dull very quickly. I have found much more enjoyment playing cat and mouse to hit these tribes and then when I am finally discovered, I enjoy the rebuilding and coming up with another way to cause havoc. Not sure you can still do it, but I had a few friends who would build up some resources... change their tribe name to match that of their alpha on the server... then cross ark and raid another alpha.

The other alpha would see the player and the tribe name... look up where they came from and went, then when they visited and found it was another alpha tribe they would jump at the challenge. I've seen that tactic work AT LEAST twice.

 

Just remember the game is there to have fun, and to me personally being in an alpha tribe is about the least fun you can have. Being a small tribe or even solo tribe and causing havoc though can feel very rewarding and keeps things interested and intense. So step back and examine just why you are so bothered by the "alpha" tribe situation, then look at what you can do to turn it into a fun scenario that will bring you many hours of enjoyment.

[Cazador]

Gaming communities always end up a poopstorm. It's not the best solution but PVE is almost another game and I quite like playing it when the grind/frustrations of PvP get to me.

[Deathwaits]

38 minutes ago, Cazador said:

Gaming communities always end up a poopstorm. It's not the best solution but PVE is almost another game and I quite like playing it when the grind/frustrations of PvP get to me.

I am on the other end of the spectrum, from an official server point of view... the pve servers are full of grievers who can do so with safety and without recourse. A lot of the things people do on pve like pillaring off areas or blocking stuff would be a non-issue on pvp where you can just take matters into your own hands to remove it. The support for PVE officials is almost non-existant and even when it does something fruitful it took a long time to get there.

[Octia]

1 hour ago, Deathwaits said:

I can understand your frustration OP, but you are not seeing the bigger pitcher.

First there is nothing stopping you from joining one of these "alpha" tribes and reaping all the benefits you are complaining about. There is also nothing stopped you from making your own "alpha" tribe. Yes you have to be creative and find ways to keep your size unknown, but this can be accomplished by lots of smaller bases and having a good location to hide your valuables.

Second, it would not be balanced if a 1 or 2 man tribe posed a huge thread to a much larger tribe. Yes. even a solo player can raid a alpha tribe if left unchecked, but you will need to spend much longer actually acquiring all the resources need for the task, where as they have enough players to accomplish the same thing in a much shorter time.

Lastly, it is possible to play as a solo player or small tribe and either co-exist, hide, or push back at the "alpha" tribes. There are still ways to keep yourself mostly hidden and safe, there are also ways to make raiding you a PITA.

You can build up maze bases that are empty... they invest the time and resources into a few of these bases only to find nothing of value inside and eventually they will get more frustrated with them than they are interested in getting something good. You can also take advantage of some smart building practices. I have built several bases which had a false back... meaning my base might have been 5x6, but when you are inside you only see 5x5 and the wall in the back is actually where all my loot is hidden.. yes if they come breaking in from that direction it isn't as effective, but many times I have been raided and they took the easy items they THOUGHT was my good loot.. only to leave all my most valuable bp's safely tucked away in the false wall area.

 

There is more to this game than just being an "Alpha" tribe and there are also many ways to play this game that are fun and rewarding. I have only been a member of a true "alpha" tribe once and I can assure you it got dull very quickly. I have found much more enjoyment playing cat and mouse to hit these tribes and then when I am finally discovered, I enjoy the rebuilding and coming up with another way to cause havoc. Not sure you can still do it, but I had a few friends who would build up some resources... change their tribe name to match that of their alpha on the server... then cross ark and raid another alpha.

The other alpha would see the player and the tribe name... look up where they came from and went, then when they visited and found it was another alpha tribe they would jump at the challenge. I've seen that tactic work AT LEAST twice.

 

Just remember the game is there to have fun, and to me personally being in an alpha tribe is about the least fun you can have. Being a small tribe or even solo tribe and causing havoc though can feel very rewarding and keeps things interested and intense. So step back and examine just why you are so bothered by the "alpha" tribe situation, then look at what you can do to turn it into a fun scenario that will bring you many hours of enjoyment.

There is nothing stopping me joining a bigger tribe .. Wrong. Whether or not i get in a megatribe is not MY choice. It is their choice, and so whether or not i get in a megatribe is completely out of my hands. 

It would be balanced is a two man tribe could take a 1000+ tribe. Shall i tell you why? Because it would be balanced tribe vs tribe; NOT numbers vs numbers. They are different types of balance, one just requires skill, the other does not.

Look, whether or not you build a trick base, it doesn't matter. You can't rely on their incompetence to win, because they might not make a mistake. Do you not understand? You're saying you can compete if they make a mistake. Elements completely OUTSIDE of your control. That is NOT how you balance a game. There is NO way to hide, my god, will you people stop saying you can hide. You people have never had a 1000+ megatribe on you, because if you had, you'd realize THERE IS NOWHERE TO HIDE.  You see, hiding is completely chance based; either they look for you, or they don't. Your defense once again entirely relies on your opponent to simply choose not to look for you. Once again, i'm pointing out that your survival is COMPLETELY Dependant on these megatribes  choosing to look for you or not. It is their choice whether you get to play on whatever server or not.

If it is outside of your control whether you get to progress or not in Ark, the game is rigged; and thus the game is completely flawed competitively.

It is like someone pointing a gun at you, and they have neverending bullets, and you're to fight them while you're tied to a chair, a chair you get to place in a limited area, your only defense is if they miss when they shoot the bullet, or they simply don't turn around and notice that their is someone tied to a chair, or they simply choose not to shoot someone tied to the chair; ALL ELEMENTS COMPLETELY OUTSIDE OF THE CONTROL OF THE PERSON TIED TO THE CHAIR. 

 

 

 

[Deathwaits]

2 minutes ago, Octia said:

There is nothing stopping me joining a bigger tribe .. Wrong. Whether or not i get in a megatribe is not MY choice. It is their choice, and so whether or not i get in a megatribe is completely out of my hands.

The only person stopping you is yourself. There are other people out there that feel the same way you do. Those are the tribes you look for. Better yet, you can start your own and make it as big as you can find people that support your cause.

2 minutes ago, Octia said:

It would be balanced is a two man tribe could take a 1000+ tribe. Shall i tell you why? Because it would be balanced tribe vs tribe; NOT numbers vs numbers. They are different types of balance, one just requires skill, the other does not.

Balancing it tribe to tribe would make things worse, not better. You get out the amount of investment you can put in.. so if you have 100 people investing in the tribe it will become bigger faster and will have more overall power. To give a 2 man tribe the power of a 100 man tribe with 50x less investment would not be balanced. This game is built around grinds, so the better you can grind (more people, better strategy, etc) then the better you will be. Time invested = Reward    IS the best way to balance this style of game.

5 minutes ago, Octia said:

Look, whether or not you build a trick base, it doesn't matter. You can't rely on their incompetence to win, because they might not make a mistake. Do you not understand? You're saying you can compete if they make a mistake. Elements completely OUTSIDE of your control. That is NOT how you balance a game. There is NO way to hide, my god, will you people stop saying you can hide. You people have never had a 1000+ megatribe on you, because if you had, you'd realize THERE IS NOWHERE TO HIDE.  You see, hiding is completely chance based; either they look for you, or they don't. Your defense once again entirely relies on your opponent to simply choose not to look for you. Once again, i'm pointing out that your survival is COMPLETELY Dependant on these megatribes (cowards) choosing to look for you or not. It is their choice whether you get to play on whatever server or not.

Yes, Things will be outside of your control. This is no different than real life. This is no different than any other game you will play. The problem is, it feels like you are accepting defeat before even trying. Yes, you will get killed. Yes, you will get wiped, but it doesn't mean you can't do everything possible to deceive and trick them.. that should be what makes the game fun. If getting killed and having your base wiped is truly making the game unbearable for you, then you should probably play on a pve server where this is a non-issue. As for your survival being completely dependent on the megatribes I will have to disagree. Your survival relies on your playstyle and how creative you can be. It is also not their choice, but yours to what server you are on... YOU are the only one that can control YOUR actions.

 

9 minutes ago, Octia said:

If it is outside of your control whether you get to progress or not in Ark, the game is rigged; and thus the game is completely flawed competitively.

This is also not true. You can play on a pve server if pvp bothers you so much. You can play on one of the many unofficial servers that has rules and measures in place to stop this type of behavior. You have numerous options and all of them are within YOUR control to choose from. There is only one person that can control your happiness with this game and that is YOU. You have numerous ways to make these complaints non-existant... but you are choosing to come to these forums and depand that wildcard cripple larger tribes or people who enjoying playing in a different manner that you. So why is your opinion any more important than theirs? 

The bottomline is you have choices. You have the power to either make the situation fun or to play on a server where this is a non-issue. Wildcard has given you all the tools and options needed to make this game more fun for yourself, it is not their fault if you decide not to use them.

[Octia]

28 minutes ago, Deathwaits said:

The only person stopping you is yourself. There are other people out there that feel the same way you do. Those are the tribes you look for. Better yet, you can start your own and make it as big as you can find people that support your cause.

Balancing it tribe to tribe would make things worse, not better. You get out the amount of investment you can put in.. so if you have 100 people investing in the tribe it will become bigger faster and will have more overall power. To give a 2 man tribe the power of a 100 man tribe with 50x less investment would not be balanced. This game is built around grinds, so the better you can grind (more people, better strategy, etc) then the better you will be. Time invested = Reward    IS the best way to balance this style of game.

Yes, Things will be outside of your control. This is no different than real life. This is no different than any other game you will play. The problem is, it feels like you are accepting defeat before even trying. Yes, you will get killed. Yes, you will get wiped, but it doesn't mean you can't do everything possible to deceive and trick them.. that should be what makes the game fun. If getting killed and having your base wiped is truly making the game unbearable for you, then you should probably play on a pve server where this is a non-issue. As for your survival being completely dependent on the megatribes I will have to disagree. Your survival relies on your playstyle and how creative you can be. It is also not their choice, but yours to what server you are on... YOU are the only one that can control YOUR actions.

 

This is also not true. You can play on a pve server if pvp bothers you so much. You can play on one of the many unofficial servers that has rules and measures in place to stop this type of behavior. You have numerous options and all of them are within YOUR control to choose from. There is only one person that can control your happiness with this game and that is YOU. You have numerous ways to make these complaints non-existant... but you are choosing to come to these forums and depand that wildcard cripple larger tribes or people who enjoying playing in a different manner that you. So why is your opinion any more important than theirs? 

The bottomline is you have choices. You have the power to either make the situation fun or to play on a server where this is a non-issue. Wildcard has given you all the tools and options needed to make this game more fun for yourself, it is not their fault if you decide not to use them.

No, the only person stopping me is the person choosing whether or not they want to invite me. If i can mind control them, then it is my choice, but since that technology doesnt' exist yet (as far as i know) it is entirely out of my hands.

It wouldn't work to buff two man tribes, but work to debuff a tribe the more members they have. 

I find it hilarious that you'd accuse me of accepting defeat before trying, someone who has played since the game first appeared on the store. Deception and trickery REQUIRE THEM TO MAKE A MISTAKE. 

You see, you're not understanding what is in your control, and what is not. In real life, like in ark, you control what YOU personally do. That is it. You can't take choice away from someone, even if you make an offer they can't refuse, they could still choose to refuse it.

Okay, so survival is entirely in my control? Okay, so when another player runs up and decides to stab me with a spear, i can just decide to survive that encounter? No. I can choose what i do, that is it. My survival is completely dependant on factors outside of my awareness, all i can do is speculate and make assumptions on the best course of action, just like it real life. 

In real life, you could make all the decisions that at the time seem like they'll lead to your survival, whether they do or not is out of your control. I could live in a nuclear bunker with a lifetime of supplies, and could still die if i slipped on a banana peel that due to some weird undiscovered science, appeared under my foot as i was taking a step.

All a player can do is speculate on the right decision to make, whether it is or not is for the fates to decide, and the fates are not in your control; and nor are the actions of other players that could equally lead to your demise. That is indisputable.

Playing on a PVE server would mean i wouldn't be able to raid other people, so i'd be missing a very fun part of the game; and so that isn't a valid solution.

Yes players have choices. They have the choice of where they want their next base to be destroyed.

 

[Ranger1]

What you are describing as an ideal to strive for is a game where it is prescribed that both teams have equal composition, and only have identical equipment issued to each player to use.  A game or sport with severely limited options and restrictive guidelines.

There is nothing wrong with playing football, or chess, or monopoly... or any of the myriad of other games and sports set up in this fashion.  But none of those are open world survival games.

The closest ARK has ever had to that was Survival of the Fittest, yet even that would fail your litmus test for a "fair" game because the other players might choose to work together (even though you would have the same option at your disposal).  Or they might chance upon a drop of better equipment than you did (although the odds were equal for all players to find it), or they might be further away from an area affected by a particular type of event (never mind that positioning on the map was an important element of the strategy).

Restrictive game design and rules are fine for many sports and games, but are completely inappropriate for others.  For example pure combat games of all types offer a variety of equipment to choose from, and you have no control over what your opponent will pick or have available.  They do come a bit closer because the team sizes are usually the same, but again those are match based games of short duration and extremely limited scope... and would STILL fail your definition of fair if for no other reason than you don't have control over the rest of the members of your random team.

Balance in an Open World game like ARK is attained by making sure that everyone has the same options at their disposal.  All characters are created solo and start with nothing, beyond that every opportunity and option for progression is open to everyone equally.  The person that now runs a mega tribe of hundreds started the game with exactly the same opportunities and choices to make as you. 

You are quite correct in that not every variable is completely under your direct control, nor should it be.  By the same token those very same variables are not under anyone else's direct control either.  This is by design.  A Mega tribe can't force you to join them, nor can they force you to stop harassing them.  All they can try to do is make it so that you want to make that decision yourself.  In a game with literally no penalty for death, they have virtually zero leverage to force another player to do anything if they don't want to.

You can try to lay blame for your current situation on anything and everything... but the hard truth that experienced gamers recognize is that you have no one to blame for your circumstances but yourself.  And if you don't like those circumstances you have a myriad of tools and strategies available to you to change them, but you actually have to act rather than finger point.

[ToxVic]

On 9/14/2017 at 10:16 AM, Octia said:

Yes, except to translate this to ark. Imagine football where one team has 11 players, and the other has 1. Imagine boxing with 20 people vs 1.. See the difference? There is balance in the sport, certain rules that keep it competitive. You see, for competition to exist, there has to be a chance for the other side to win; without that? There is no competition.

Competition in the form of mega tribes fighting one another. There is no one big tribe, but rather a bunch of big tribes who will inevitably fight.