Why Ark is fundamentally flawed as a competitive game.

[Ranger1]

22 minutes ago, natman said:

yes, definitely some interesting insights

Thanks for bearing with that painfully large wall of text. 

30 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

It's somewhat amusing but oddly though I don't think I've ever seen a bad player join a big tribe and become a good player. There are certain skills you'll never acquire from being in a large easy mode tribe that you may have got while in a much smaller outfit. 

Accurate observations, and quite right... there are always meat shields that do their best to get an easy ride with a large organization.  They are also the type to abandon ship at the first sign of serious challenge.  A strong organization either requires their participation, or makes them pay through the nose for their safety and live of "privilege".  A weak organization eventually reaches a critical mass with these folks and implodes, usually due to complaints from that section about how things are run.

Consider one thing in your example though.  The group you mentioned was a small one (6 or 7 people).  Consider how much more significant the disruption would have been had it been a full tribe of 70, or perhaps a few closely allied groups of that size.  Don't look on that as arguing with you, just food for thought.

 

10 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

So yes in PVP balance is very important to having a competitive game.

Completely agree.  Ideally a game of this open world nature can be balanced to give advantages to both large and small groups (logistically, mobility wise, internally)... but that is admittedly a very tough nut to crack.  It is notoriously difficult to build in strengths for smaller group that don't provide a proportionately larger benefit for larger organizations.

Don't get me wrong, itt IS doable, and it provides a tremendous sense of accomplishment when a smaller group legitimately plays smart and takes down a much larger adversary (by playing to your strengths, and against their weaknesses)... it just require a great deal of insight into both the game mechanics and human nature to design those mechanics.

[Ranger1]

14 minutes ago, hillbilly123456 said:

I'd never say ark was a competitive game. It's just a game full of backstabbing weasels.

The key to a game like this isn't following a "Trust No One" strategy. 

The key is learning how to accurately determine who you CAN trust, and just how far you can trust them.

[ForzaProiettile]

1 minute ago, ranger1presents said:

Consider one thing in your example though.  The group you mentioned was a small one (6 or 7 people).  Consider how much more significant the disruption would have been had it been a full tribe of 70, or perhaps a few closely allied groups of that size.  Don't look on that as arguing with you, just food for thought.

 

The group I was talking about was a large mega tribe of around 50 players plus various other Chinese players whose numbers I don't know. The actual player list for the tribe was near to 100 but many of them were alt accounts.

1 minute ago, ranger1presents said:

Don't get me wrong, itt IS doable, and it provides a tremendous sense of accomplishment when a smaller group legitimately plays smart and takes down a much larger adversary (by playing to your strengths, and against their weaknesses)... it just require a great deal of insight into both the game mechanics and human nature to design those mechanics.

 

It is possible to a degree but really you have to play dirty and use various tricks to it. In our case we all have alt accounts which we use to raid with, thus ensuring our farm tribe is safe from possible reprisals. In other words I've bought the game twice just to have a way of competing with the larger groups.

I would say though with a bit of social engineering and diplomacy you can go a long way in this game. Its generally better to present yourself as weak and timid rather then strong and mighty if your a smaller tribe. Act noob, be friendly and polite to everyone and even do a bit of roleplay in global chat if you have to. Anything to make you seem harmless and friendly to other tribes is a good thing. I've gone as far as to occasionally put random wood signs outside my noob looking stone hut with stuff like "Welcome to my home" written on it. Tame some raptors and dilos to complete the look. Meanwhile using a certain trick there is a wood box hidden in that hut with 50 c4 in it.

Appearances can be very deceiving.

 

[Ranger1]

2 minutes ago, ForzaProiettile said:

The group I was talking about was a large mega tribe of around 50 players plus various other Chinese players whose numbers I don't know. The actual player list for the tribe was near to 100 but many of them were alt accounts.

My bad, I was very unclear as to what group I was talking about.  I meant the dissatisfied group that left.  If instead of being 6 or 7 it had be 60 or 70 (or more) it would likely have had serious repercussions for that larger mega tribe they were a part of.

Sorry about that.

[ForzaProiettile]

29 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

The key to a game like this isn't following a "Trust No One" strategy. 

The key is learning how to accurately determine who you CAN trust, and just how far you can trust them.

I'll share a good story here related to this. Ages ago we joined this server it was an official EU one. We were like always just the 5 of us. Anyway this server had 3 larger tribes that were all allied up. We did our usual dual tribe system thing where we'd have separate raiding and farming tribes. For this particular server we made our raiding tribe out to be a nasty French sounding tribe. All the players in it had French names, they left obnoxious notes in French in bases we had raided and the tribe name itself was a French word. This server had a mix of mostly French and German tribes on it. 

After weeks of going around raiding people, taking all their stuff and murdering their dinos we had everyone out trying to find us. At this point we hit upon an idea. One of the big 3 tribes was a French tribe. The other two were German but they were friendly with each other. We decided we'd plant a bogus base belonging to our French tribe that was raiding everyone very close to the large legit French tribe. The French tribe lived in the south east on top of a little mountain. That night one of us planted a small 3x3 metal hut very close to their base in the nearby jungle.

I then had one of my guys "discover" this small base and then he promptly announced it in global, saying he'd found the raiders base and said roughly where it was. Now obviously the real French tribe had nothing to do with these raiders but given its location it made the two German tribes very suspicious of this tribe. Things got heated pretty fast and less then two weeks later they wiped the French tribe. 

Now what's funny is outwardly we were probably the nicest and most friendly tribe on that server, always offering a hand to other tribes that requested it which were often new tribes. They'd kindly guide us right to their base so they could get their free loot delivered, whose co-ords would be duly noted for later reference  

 

[Teddansen]

2 hours ago, ForzaProiettile said:

Is your suggestion taking into consideration the proposed limit on allies because that has to go hand in hand with the tribe player limit.

Now obviously nothing can stop a tribe making informal alliances but what it would mean is that they are far more vulnerable then before to attack and much weaker as general co-ordination is harder for them. Also auto turrets and the like would target their informal allies as much as they would the enemy, making base defense harder.When Pvping both allied and enemy players names show up as red and with no alliance channel, communication is harder too.

There is a whole range of benefits to this but the general idea is to make the game more competitive by encouraging frequent PVP between tribes as opposed to everyone holding hands.

 

Yes ofcourse I considered the complications of splitting up a big tribe and I am confident that a well organized group could pull it off. 

The radios for instance, there could be a common frequency so everyone in all of those smaller tribes could communicate with each other without global chat. 

Paint: you could have everyone in that mega group wear a certain colour shirt or helmet or something to indicate who's who.. 

As for turrets and the like hitting Friendly's , you could have the group's spread out over multiple regions to avoid that. Maybe even a common safe spot if meeting needs to be held . 

I know it seems like a bit of a stretch but I think with proper communication and organization it can be done 

[Martellus]

On 9/13/2017 at 0:07 AM, Octia said:

You can't win at Ark unless the mega tribe lets you.

 

Allow me to elaborate:

You can't "hide away" and attack a mega tribe as a solo or small tribe, they will ALWAYS find you. ALWAYS. It is very important to stress that there is NOWHERE to hide. You see, this is what the devs think balances the game, they think you can hide away from megatribes until you're leveled enough to fight back. Anyone who has played on a server where the megatribe are trying to claim the entire official server to themselves will know that you simply can't hide. This leaves anyone not in the megatribe at the mercy of the megatribe; you exist by their whims. Competitively the game is completely flawed for this reason. It boils down to the power of persuasion, which just doesn't work because it is still THEIR CHOICE, and they still hold all the cards. 

 

This leaves the player three options, leave the server (an option which is diminishing as these tribes are becoming a thousand strong, and spanning all official servers), or persuade them not to destroy you. These are the options anyone not in a megatribe have. In terms of gameplay, you have no form of defense against it; a game you paid for, and you can't fight back because the system is rigged from the start to support those who have the numbers, and those who started first. The third option? Try and join a megatribe. Another element that relies on persuasion, and is completely outside of your direct control.

 

Why can't you hide? Everyone knows all the hiding spots, and the map really isn't that big, all they need is a bronto to stomp through all the trees and it is GG, or just a bird to fly through the forest and over the map. Secondly, the refertilizer DOES NOT WORK. Sometimes it does regrow trees, sometimes it doesn't, the complete mechanic needs an overhaul, or just outright remove it and let trees grow back on their own. This would go a long way in helping smaller tribes hide, yet as is, if a diplo strays through leaving your base in the open, say goodbye to your base, looks like you'll be starting again. How fun. On top of that? Pillars... Pillars everywhere... Really guys? These tribes will pillar the entire map so you can't build anywhere good. It is like you're allowing people to cheat within the rules, where the slimiest lowest players win by being as shameless as possible, exploiting every loophole and flaw in the game.

 

If you can't hide, you can't survive, and right now, you can't hide. The game as is, is flawed. As a simulation of survival ? It fails even in that regard; you see, in real life you only get ONE LIFE, but in ark; you kill them? They come right back, how is survival the main focus when death has no consequence? So unless you're playing hardcore, the megatribe will stay ontop even if you kill them. You can't remove them from their perch without complete annihilation of their bases across all servers.. Now tell me, how is a solo player or small tribe meant to do that?

 

You can't have a game like this where people band together in the thousands without selling short everyone who can't play like that, or doesn't want to play like that.. You're forcing people to play a certain way, a way that is entirely outside of their control and at the whims of the other players; because they don't have the numbers supporting them, or they joined the game later. You've essentially put the success of your game in the hands of the megatribes; right now, they decide who plays the game, and who doesn't; and you're fine with that?..

 

The saddest part is, those in megatribes are usually the worst type of people, and the worst at the game, the type too afraid to face the challenge of playing solo, or in a small tribe...You'll get lots of people defending megatribes, but these people haven't tried the game from the perspective of someone NOT in a megatribe, because if they had, they would know that in it's current state it is unplayable. And lets be honest, impossible.

 

How can you have a competitive game when your opponent decides the outcome? You can't.

 

 

 Buddy, go dedicated / private server and be admin. It is clear you will have a better time there than official. Just my two cents.

Ark is a fantastic social experience, which replicates several human behaviors and groups. The game is meant for people to get together and only then are they able to challenge the dominant faction. Its possible, we have done that in the past (an enormous undertaking, which took 6-8 months with 19 people on same tribe + allies).

I played Official PVE and PVP, PVE gets crowded too fast and I can't build where I want or the Ark is all polluted with garbage constructions. As for PVP, I have a job, I have a kid, I am married and I have an external social life. There is no way I will stand on equal grounds with others that simply can dedicate 12-16 hours a day, nor do I want to. The solution for me was to run a private server with friends. Some I have met on Ark, while others are close real life friends. You know what my Ark experience became when I did that? Vastly superior. Random people irritate me, its not their fault, its just that I rather not deal with them at all. All the human factor I require in Ark is the occasional friend or fight that happens on our controlled server. That is it. I really recommend it. Beats other options in my opinion for people like me.

[brenon45]

Read the title... Read the TL;DR...

 

#SurviveTheArk

Meaning we play it to discover the secrets of the ark, fundamentally that means the pve aspect and pvp aspect play only side roles to this game to uncovering the story of the game, so complaining of the pvp encounters is you're choice. That is why yes it isnt a good competitive game, because it isnt, dont confuse it with one... Its more or less actually a mmo/rpg/survival (basically).

 

[PrimalBroom744]

On 9/12/2017 at 8:07 PM, Octia said:

You can't win at Ark unless the mega tribe lets you.

 

Allow me to elaborate:

You can't "hide away" and attack a mega tribe as a solo or small tribe, they will ALWAYS find you. ALWAYS. It is very important to stress that there is NOWHERE to hide. You see, this is what the devs think balances the game, they think you can hide away from megatribes until you're leveled enough to fight back. Anyone who has played on a server where the megatribe are trying to claim the entire official server to themselves will know that you simply can't hide. This leaves anyone not in the megatribe at the mercy of the megatribe; you exist by their whims. Competitively the game is completely flawed for this reason. It boils down to the power of persuasion, which just doesn't work because it is still THEIR CHOICE, and they still hold all the cards. 

 

This leaves the player three options, leave the server (an option which is diminishing as these tribes are becoming a thousand strong, and spanning all official servers), or persuade them not to destroy you. These are the options anyone not in a megatribe have. In terms of gameplay, you have no form of defense against it; a game you paid for, and you can't fight back because the system is rigged from the start to support those who have the numbers, and those who started first. The third option? Try and join a megatribe. Another element that relies on persuasion, and is completely outside of your direct control.

 

Why can't you hide? Everyone knows all the hiding spots, and the map really isn't that big, all they need is a bronto to stomp through all the trees and it is GG, or just a bird to fly through the forest and over the map. Secondly, the refertilizer DOES NOT WORK. Sometimes it does regrow trees, sometimes it doesn't, the complete mechanic needs an overhaul, or just outright remove it and let trees grow back on their own. This would go a long way in helping smaller tribes hide, yet as is, if a diplo strays through leaving your base in the open, say goodbye to your base, looks like you'll be starting again. How fun. On top of that? Pillars... Pillars everywhere... Really guys? These tribes will pillar the entire map so you can't build anywhere good. It is like you're allowing people to cheat within the rules, where the slimiest lowest players win by being as shameless as possible, exploiting every loophole and flaw in the game.

 

If you can't hide, you can't survive, and right now, you can't hide. The game as is, is flawed. As a simulation of survival ? It fails even in that regard; you see, in real life you only get ONE LIFE, but in ark; you kill them? They come right back, how is survival the main focus when death has no consequence? So unless you're playing hardcore, the megatribe will stay ontop even if you kill them. You can't remove them from their perch without complete annihilation of their bases across all servers.. Now tell me, how is a solo player or small tribe meant to do that?

 

You can't have a game like this where people band together in the thousands without selling short everyone who can't play like that, or doesn't want to play like that.. You're forcing people to play a certain way, a way that is entirely outside of their control and at the whims of the other players; because they don't have the numbers supporting them, or they joined the game later. You've essentially put the success of your game in the hands of the megatribes; right now, they decide who plays the game, and who doesn't; and you're fine with that?..

 

The saddest part is, those in megatribes are usually the worst type of people, and the worst at the game, the type too afraid to face the challenge of playing solo, or in a small tribe...You'll get lots of people defending megatribes, but these people haven't tried the game from the perspective of someone NOT in a megatribe, because if they had, they would know that in it's current state it is unplayable. And lets be honest, impossible.

 

How can you have a competitive game when your opponent decides the outcome? You can't.

 

 

It's hard to say this isn't competitive. Your referring to the Official PVP servers and from the sounds of it you aren't very good with your politics. The vast majority of alpha's/Mega tribes are very chill. You do have some power crazed alphas who will do everything in their power for server domination. This is a main a huge thing on SE with alphas trying to keep every one out of the server and honestly it made them very easy to wipe But, besides that. If your on Official severs you will need to have friends. This doesn't mean you have to be in a massive tribe. I have played solo before to the point of having raised Rexs and a nice sized metal base that you would assume was a tribe of 5-10 peoples. Solo has it's perks but, it take so much more time cause in the end one person can only do so much. The game has crazy politics and if you make friends you can really do well but, If you don't play the politics you mite as well C4 your own base.

[cyniikal]

The game, at least in PVP, is built around tribes warring with each other. The idea of a mega-tribe is sort of antithetical to this entire concept, as they just shut down any, even POTENTIAL, opposition before it can even start via server-wide wipes.

[hatchymctwit]

Yeah.. playing politics is one thing, but transfers just opened up a poop show can of worms imo on official servers. You can't survive official servers solo unless the mega tribes on the server are benevolent. You can't survive as a small tribe because if you aren't on the ally list of one or both of the usually two main warring factions, you're on the raid at will list. Doesn't matter if you have anything, they'll despawn it all just because. Even if you do politic and join a mega tribe, you aren't guaranteed much. Hey, I know you've been a loyal part of the alliance an active in raids and all but we're inviting this tribe known for insiding people. GG right? Even better, when you're cool with most people and leaders of tribes in your alliance but there's 1-2 jackasses that ruin it by acting like they poop diamond dust and fart roses.

 

Honestly I'm kinda getting tired of the volatility of some of these tribes.

[Jlmaples]

On 9/12/2017 at 9:07 PM, Octia said:

You can't "hide away" and attack a mega tribe as a solo or small tribe, they will ALWAYS find you. ALWAYS. It is very important to stress that there is NOWHERE to hide. You see, this is what the devs think balances the game, they think you can hide away from megatribes until you're leveled enough to fight back. Anyone who has played on a server where the megatribe are trying to claim the entire official server to themselves will know that you simply can't hide. This leaves anyone not in the megatribe at the mercy of the megatribe; you exist by their whims. Competitively the game is completely flawed for this reason. It boils down to the power of persuasion, which just doesn't work because it is still THEIR CHOICE, and they still hold all the cards. 

This.. lol. I bought the game on steam when it was 20 bucks. I've been in 3 tribes for about a month each time. So totaling 3 months. Give or take a month. Other than that I've played solo. I would like to start by questioning your logic. If I'm hiding in the woods with a gun. If there are 50 people in those same woods looking for me.. well no duh bro.. you won't be able to hide. That is your problem. You assume that to fight the alpha or mega you have to do it all on their server. This is where you went wrong friend.. the possibility of transferring items, characters and tames completely shuts down your argument. You aren't supposed to be able to hide from 50 people on their server man. That's why you base in one server tame in another then pick them off on theirs just to retreat again back to yours. Please tell me how they can find you with my technique. The problem is how you are attempting to accomplish your goal. Just this morning I uploaded 3 iguanadons and 20 c4 to the oblisk. Guess what I did tonight. I got 3 iguanadons killed and blew up a bunch of their stuff. Sure they know where I tamed the iguanadons. But let's see if you were paying attention. Will they find me?

Just adding, no I alone did not wipe the mega. But due to my attack a few other tribes stepped up and took advantage of the alpha members chasing me down. Nearly all their xplants and turrets are now gone. They have no choice but to rebuild. They can't afford to continue attacking. Due to my 3 hours or so of farming I cost them days. This is the problem with many new players. You think that tribes are invincible. You think they can shut you down no matter what. When reality.. the bigger they are the easier they can be found. And of they can be found they can be inconvenienced. It's all about effort.

[ForzaProiettile]

8 hours ago, brenon45 said:

Read the title... Read the TL;DR...

 

#SurviveTheArk

Meaning we play it to discover the secrets of the ark, fundamentally that means the pve aspect and pvp aspect play only side roles to this game to uncovering the story of the game, so complaining of the pvp encounters is you're choice. That is why yes it isnt a good competitive game, because it isnt, dont confuse it with one... Its more or less actually a mmo/rpg/survival (basically).

 

No one plays this game for its "story". I've played this for almost 4000 hours now and I still don't get what the story is meant to be about. The PVP side of the game is hugely competitive even more then most games because of the depth and versatility of gameplay that is on offer.

[ForzaProiettile]

5 hours ago, hatchymctwit said:

Yeah.. playing politics is one thing, but transfers just opened up a poop show can of worms imo on official servers. You can't survive official servers solo unless the mega tribes on the server are benevolent. You can't survive as a small tribe because if you aren't on the ally list of one or both of the usually two main warring factions, you're on the raid at will list. Doesn't matter if you have anything, they'll despawn it all just because. Even if you do politic and join a mega tribe, you aren't guaranteed much. Hey, I know you've been a loyal part of the alliance an active in raids and all but we're inviting this tribe known for insiding people. GG right? Even better, when you're cool with most people and leaders of tribes in your alliance but there's 1-2 jackasses that ruin it by acting like they poop diamond dust and fart roses.

 

Honestly I'm kinda getting tired of the volatility of some of these tribes.

Before transfers you were stuck with one untouchable alpha tribe with 30 or more members and or multiple allied tribes ruling the servers. There was little you could do, at least now with transfers you can be a bit more mobile.

[ForzaProiettile]

15 hours ago, Jlmaples said:

This.. lol. I bought the game on steam when it was 20 bucks. I've been in 3 tribes for about a month each time. So totaling 3 months. Give or take a month. Other than that I've played solo. I would like to start by questioning your logic. If I'm hiding in the woods with a gun. If there are 50 people in those same woods looking for me.. well no duh bro.. you won't be able to hide. That is your problem. You assume that to fight the alpha or mega you have to do it all on their server. This is where you went wrong friend.. the possibility of transferring items, characters and tames completely shuts down your argument. You aren't supposed to be able to hide from 50 people on their server man. That's why you base in one server tame in another then pick them off on theirs just to retreat again back to yours. Please tell me how they can find you with my technique. The problem is how you are attempting to accomplish your goal. Just this morning I uploaded 3 iguanadons and 20 c4 to the oblisk. Guess what I did tonight. I got 3 iguanadons killed and blew up a bunch of their stuff. Sure they know where I tamed the iguanadons. But let's see if you were paying attention. Will they find me?

Just adding, no I alone did not wipe the mega. But due to my attack a few other tribes stepped up and took advantage of the alpha members chasing me down. Nearly all their xplants and turrets are now gone. They have no choice but to rebuild. They can't afford to continue attacking. Due to my 3 hours or so of farming I cost them days. This is the problem with many new players. You think that tribes are invincible. You think they can shut you down no matter what. When reality.. the bigger they are the easier they can be found. And of they can be found they can be inconvenienced. It's all about effort.

The problem is yes you can hide on other servers but that doesn't help if you can't really ever effectively fight the larger tribes. At least before smaller tribes could use turtles to raid larger ones but now they are forced to lug giant Brontos around which means they need a big base to fit such a creature thereby dashing any hopes of hiding.

[SmokeyB]

It's better as a solo player,  just last night I wiped a 6 man French tribe offline,  blind spot in their Base,  I raided a few other small tribes,  I picked a quetz ridder and killed him and the passive quetz and I picked a dragon rider and killed him but his tribe mate saved his dragon on a griffin and it got away,  pure chaos and I got no risk of comeback as my Base is so small and hidden. 

You can't have that kind of fun in a big tribe as there is always risk of comeback,  and you dont want the server thinking your a troll tribe,  on my own I can change tribe name 20 times a day and never have to worry 

[Critter]

On 9/12/2017 at 11:59 PM, Kallor said:

Only takes a minute or two of looking at the ruleset to understand that PvP in ARK is pointless.  Why you somehow think it would ever be any different is strange.  It's like complaining that water is wet.

On an unofficial server with custom settings and an artificial PVP set of rules, you might be able to get something that resembles PVP.

I second this. 

[Masurao]

On 9/14/2017 at 7:23 AM, Jostabeere said:

It's an implication, nothing more.

Games like Slenderman or stupid Unity "collect 4 trillion pieces of random items while getting jumpscare .pngs" are "survival games". But they aren't competitive.

ARK has a competitive Battle Royale spin-off, SotF. Which is advertised as competitive PvP.

Slenderman and  Unity had competition for resources? I didn't know. Never tried 'em.  Any situation in which you must compete for space and resources is competitive - it just is what it is - the implication being that its up to the player to use that common sense to realize what's up. If there's a sign up saying someone's mopping vs a sign that says "wet floor", its up to the reader to utilize common sense to think "Hey, the floor's probably slippery" instead of "well, they didn't 'say' it was wet here yet, sooo..." then end up breaking their faces.

[lfeworthliving]

On 9/14/2017 at 9:46 PM, PrimalBroom744 said:

It's hard to say this isn't competitive. Your referring to the Official PVP servers and from the sounds of it you aren't very good with your politics. The vast majority of alpha's/Mega tribes are very chill.

Which ones? I have played on 9 servers since the official launch. Each one had a issue with mega or alpha tribes not wanting anyone to build. And politics is my thing in most games. First thing I do on  a server is try to make alliances. 

If you know of one or more servers that have chill alpha tribes let us know cause the PVE alpha's junk up the maps so you cant build and the PVP ones wipe you out daily. I have one server that I was on since day 1. We had alliances with various of the local tribes. We are a tribe with 5 players. Then another tribe came on the scene that was much larger and no matter how small we make our base or where we try to hide we get wiped out.

I have tried to make peace with the alpha's on the servers but no go. So I am at a standstill. I paid 60 for a game that since the launch I can no longer play. That stinks. 

 

Oh and don't get me started with the rubberbanding and other crazy issues like being killed by a sea creature in the forest. 

[Jostabeere]

12 hours ago, Masurao said:

Slenderman and  Unity had competition for resources? I didn't know. Never tried 'em.  Any situation in which you must compete for space and resources is competitive - it just is what it is - the implication being that its up to the player to use that common sense to realize what's up. If there's a sign up saying someone's mopping vs a sign that says "wet floor", its up to the reader to utilize common sense to think "Hey, the floor's probably slippery" instead of "well, they didn't 'say' it was wet here yet, sooo..." then end up breaking their faces.

It is what you say it is. Not a fact. A competition for ressources might indicate a competitive nature or part of a game, but isn't the main core. You can play ARK without competing for ressources with other player.

And a competition for ressources is not the only indication for a survival game.

There are a lot of survival games without ressources in this sense or crafting.

[Z00jo]

At the end of the day tribes who have the most time and people will be the winners imo. 

[Fin5434p]

Hey, so, I'm part of a so-called 'mega tribe' and thought I'd share my views here.  Obviously, some of you might hate my guts, fair enough, but listen for a moment.
Pretty much no mega started off as a mega.
Why is that important?
Because in the root of that statement is your opportunity.

My tribe started off as 8 Scotsmen who used to play Halo together, and thought they'd try out this 'pvp survival game' for a laugh.  And Dinosaurs.
Now?  We have a couple hundred players from all over the UK, from Canada, from America, from Germany, France, Holland, Spain, Russia, Kosovo, the Middle East, Australia, and Mexico.  We have people on in every time zone, and multiple servers under our control.  How did this happen?  Well, it wasn't magic.  We just talked to people.  And we fought with them, helped each other out, defended our new friends and became allies, then as new servers opened up we went to them as a full tribe.  Then our alliances got bigger as we spoke to more people, fought more enemies, established ourselves with our allies.  Now we play as over a dozen tribes closely allied and under the same 'megatribe' banner, if one of us gets hit, everyone else turns up to crush our opponents.  When we counterattack, we all go in to their server as one, and we flatten the opposition.  But we didn't get here by magic, we got to the point of being able to do this by putting in time and effort, by making friends and allies (even out of people we wiped, incidentally, some of the best pvp players in my alliance were a tribe we wiped early on, but we were so impressed by their skill we asked them to join us when the new centre servers came out, there were no hard feelings, it was pvp, so they did, and now form a core part of the team).  

If you want to be a wee 5-man team against the world, that's all you'll ever be.  If you want to participate in the main PvP, the proper server vs server PvP, go get allies, make friends, band up, and challenge the big teams yourself.  You are correct that any small tribe is basically irrelevant to us, they can't do enough damage.  At best they are like terrorists attacking a nation; they do some damage, and if found are destroyed.  If you want to fight a nation (to strain that analogy) you *need* another nation.  

So my best advice is this; don't try taking on a tribe that has dozens of fortified bases when you have one much smaller one, the way to become competitive is to build your own alliances that will fight with you, and risk everything they have to defend you.  At that point you'll realise the game actually does have loads of competitive PvP, but it's between the peer opponents of competing megas.  I'm not going to apologise for being good at diplomacy, for being competitive, or for destroying anyone in my way, it's a competitive game, I'm a competitive person, and I want my team to be the best it can be.  That's playing the game as intended.  

I hope you build up your own alliances, perhaps then I'll meet you on the battlefield and we can see who's skill at commanding a large force is better!  

[natman]

1 hour ago, Fin5434p said:

 

thanks for sharing ur pov

Of course megatribes have earned their position and they havent done anything wrong with that. they´ve just done what the game encourages. But if a game is supposed to be and stay successful it should be designed for the average player. and the average player is not in a mega tribe. thats why i think some things in ark need to change.

Dont get me wrong, i like how ark promotes team work and political skills, but i think the final stage should be tribes of 30, maybe 40 people total (including players who just log in once a week), not tribes of a few hundred.

[Masurao]

2 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

It is what you say it is. Not a fact. A competition for ressources might indicate a competitive nature or part of a game, but isn't the main core. You can play ARK without competing for ressources with other player.

And a competition for ressources is not the only indication for a survival game.

There are a lot of survival games without ressources in this sense or crafting.

I've gotta tell ya; no part of that really made sense to me. I thought the core of ark was PvP, was it not? Regardless of that, you are absolutely correct: You can completely play ark without competing with other players for resources...if you're the only other person on the server, and no one else is looking for the same resource. This is also heavily dependent on the resource as well.

Case-in-point: I remember back earlier while playing on the island - before server transfers and all this tek nonsense - if you wanted to hit the metal nodes or those little limited amounts of beaver dams that people love leaving wood in while the population was around 60-65/70(this meant obviously the alpha and beta were on at this point) you'd have options:

1. Politely wait your turn for the respawn times, in which case while you weredoing something else, someone else could pop up and snatch them.
2. "Catch that work"(get killed, for those of you not into lingo) if you were seen trying to harvest the same thing when they were in such "dire need".
3. Call for a compromise; in which case you'd get told to go to hell more than likely and to just wait because they will "respawn".

Not sure what type of ark you've been playing, but to me that honestly sounds like a heavily competitive aspect - even disregarding the PvP focus of the game.

With how much larger the maps like Ragnarok have gotten however, you don't even need to see another player any more, let alone know they exist on that server. But on the premise that there is PvP, there will always be competition. That's simply what it is, which is a fact of the game itself. Be nice if we had a little more input on the matter, but I'm feeling pretty solid on it.

[Mendoza]

28 minutes ago, natman said:

thanks for sharing ur pov

Of course megatribes have earned their position and they havent done anything wrong with that. they´ve just done what the game encourages. But if a game is supposed to be and stay successful it should be designed for the average player. and the average player is not in a mega tribe. thats why i think some things in ark need to change.

Dont get me wrong, i like how ark promotes team work and political skills, but i think the final stage should be tribes of 30, maybe 40 people total (including players who just log in once a week), not tribes of a few hundred.

I'd agree on tribe size limits....    I don't think it's fair that a megatribe can be 70 players....   If 70 players + Alliances were to attack a single server at the same time (not that everybody could get on)... What hope is there for defence?

The attacking players would just wait when the numbers were down on that server, then signal the attack... the attackers would win by shear numbers, and the defenders even if they alerted their offline team-mates, would not be able to log on as all the slots would be full mostly by attacking players!

 

...This is why I want to see a new game mode!

• Isolated cluster server or Isolated single map.
• Server forces everyone joining to pick 1 of 3 tribes (or server makes the choice for you).
• Objective of game is to capture all the artifacts or first team to ascend or SOTF style deathmatch or whatever etc.... (once objective is met, a tribe Is declared the winner and the server is reset).
• No tribe is allowed to have more than one third of the total number of people allowed at one time on the server.
• The game is fair (No mega tribes vs solo/small tribes) - Each tribe has it's share of casual / no life / hard core type players.