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14 minutes ago, PuffyPony said:

You assume that growth is a possibility. Like I said earlier, people are assuming Wildcard has unlimited resources on their hands with which they could magically solve the problems they face, when that very well may not be true. This entire argument is premised on the idea that Wildcard is not in a position in which they are going to be forced to make decisions such as the decision regarding Customer Support and Legacy servers. It's a naive and self-centered view.

Its a bit of a stretch to fathom them not having the means for basic support, i.e.: lost characters, can't log for weeks etc. that crap happens once every other blue moon, but when it does, it's game ending and it's a major problem if left unsupported. I believe they don't intend to support either cluster anyways, or they would already have more support, trained and ready to go for launch in 2 days. The platforms only say a game has to have official support, not that it has to be useful or.. actually respond. Maybe we're all missing the point here with our thinking, including me. Maybe we're asking too much from a dev team thats just in it to finish the game and the two dlcs, so they can move on. Maybe the best we can hope for is fixes to long standing glitches and game issues were we have a fighting chance of surviving the ark, literally speaking, before the server deletes us. Survival evolved indeed. 

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17 hours ago, Bassplayer said:

Lifetime of servers....lol those servers aren't even making it to LAUNCH!....that's not that long to keep your servers up is it and don't forget they said multiple times we will keep the servers we care about our legacy players. Now that small team stuff flew out the window when they sold millions of copies, and over a year to higher some more staff. It's not my fault they are crap at building a company and to staff it correctly or to even handle customer support (which official servers should have or they are not official). You defend this company(don't forget that what WC is) like they are someone you know. Why, do you think they care for you ? they got your cash just like mine only I look at them like every other business. If they are shady and don't keep their word to their customers I warn everyone I can to steer clear. 

I don't think they care for me, I know they have my money. The only difference is I understand that my +£120 investment into the game (I bought myself and my wife copies on Xbox, plus 2 on steam on sale, and then 2 more for Xbox for friends) altho more than most other people's investment is nothing in the grand scheme of things, that £120 would barely even pay a dev a single days wage, so for me to get 3k hours out of this game and my family and friends to also get close to that is money well spent. I also realise that I have zero entitlement to anything other than ownership of the game, if they chose to wipe all of my time invested then that's their choice. 

17 hours ago, Insomniak said:

That's not what I got out of it. Maybe since your not really reading posts, like mine, you already have formed an emotional driven predisposition from former players on the cluster your leaving, causing you to react and think that were all just self entitled brats. I just think OP was venting, and posting an official statement. Isn't that what these forums are for? 

 

Then you said..

from Tuesday the majority of the player base regardless of if you want to believe it's true or not, will be on the new cluster, only those gripping to their precious time spent on legacy like a child not wanting to come out of the womb will still be on legacy, would you like them to keep footing the cost of the servers AND support just so you can play on a desolate server that's long past it's shelf date?

That's  also from an emotional predisposition. You want to think of everyone staying on legacy as a child, because you hate it so bad you can't rest until it's gone. So what happened? 

Nothing happened. Both servers I play on escaped the kill list because we built up a community on the server despite it being pvp and locked down the server to avoid outside raiding, we have an alliance that's constitutes as a Mega tribe and have no problems. However we will be leaving the old cluster for the new and starting again. 100's of players all willing to start again without complaint. 

What reason do you have to blast WC as bad as they have been for this tho? You do not pay for the servers, they do. 

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17 hours ago, Mastermind42011 said:

 

You, who didn't read the post, probably shouldn't comment since you made zero new points or even any that mattered. You are defending a company making millions for being too small, simple solution, grow. And yes we expect them to keep the financial hardship that comes with keeping up legacy servers, know why we expect that? Cause they freaking said they would! What?!? Holding a company to its promises, crazy. Plus you said maybe only a few other players effected? I dont play offical, but this thread has 5x more views then any other announcement thread, Close to or possibly highest comments thus far of any announcment and it's only a few days old, obviously this is effecting more then "a few people." 

No points that's mattered? Okay buddy, I'm speaking from logic and a general none biased view on why they'd have made this choice. It's easy to see that it's the right move for a game such as this when your eyes aren't consumed by sodium enriched tears. 

Go back several months and find the "wipe" thread. 100's of pages with millions of views all related to this subject, the majority forced them into keeping legacy, but for a company with finite resources and a fluctuating player base it isn't economically viable to do so and keep support. Sadly, you forced the inevitable slow death of legacy upon yourselves. 

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5 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

No points that's mattered? Okay buddy, I'm speaking from logic and a general none biased view on why they'd have made this choice. It's easy to see that it's the right move for a game such as this when your eyes aren't consumed by sodium enriched tears. 

Go back several months and find the "wipe" thread. 100's of pages with millions of views all related to this subject, the majority forced them into keeping legacy, but for a company with finite resources and a fluctuating player base it isn't economically viable to do so and keep support. Sadly, you forced the inevitable slow death of legacy upon yourselves. 

It's just that,  and for everyone who wants legacy to die.. just join the new servers.. that's an option for everyone really.. I don't see why players qq when they can just make a simple choice. 

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3 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

No points that's mattered? Okay buddy, I'm speaking from logic and a general none biased view on why they'd have made this choice. It's easy to see that it's the right move for a game such as this when your eyes aren't consumed by sodium enriched tears. 

Go back several months and find the "wipe" thread. 100's of pages with millions of views all related to this subject, the majority forced them into keeping legacy, but for a company with finite resources and a fluctuating player base it isn't economically viable to do so and keep support. Sadly, you forced the inevitable slow death of legacy upon yourselves. 

I have no tears as I am not effected by the wipe. I don't play offical, I've said so multiple times. 9 million copies, 270 million at $30 a copy, whether they are logging in everyday or not, that's your player base. They told 9 million people they wouldn't delete their stuff, they would support them. There is no excuse to hear this isn't economically viable. You can keep making these outdated and already fully refuted points that have been made over and over, but you just look like a simpleton for defending a company making millions on you while refusing to pay for the lube that would make you getting screwed much more comfortable, and you paid for th screwing too!

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10 minutes ago, Mastermind42011 said:

I have no tears as I am not effected by the wipe. I don't play offical, I've said so multiple times. 9 million copies, 270 million at $30 a copy, whether they are logging in everyday or not, that's your player base. They told 9 million people they wouldn't delete their stuff, they would support them. There is no excuse to hear this isn't economically viable. You can keep making these outdated and already fully refuted points that have been made over and over, but you just look like a simpleton for defending a company making millions on you while refusing to pay for the lube that would make you getting screwed much more comfortable, and you paid for th screwing too!

No one is talking about how Ark isn't necessarily the one making this choice. Ark was bought by Snail Games in December of 2015. Just because they made 270 million (I'm assuming your information is correct for the sake of argument) it doesn't mean those are all funds they have access too. Their parent company essentially gets the money and then portions X amount back to them to be able to use, not to mention they dictate the size the company is allowed to be. And if your response is just "Well, why don't they just say this?", then you've never worked in a corporate setting with multiple business units... you NEVER talk bad about your parent company or blame anything on them. It's just the way these corporations work.

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1 hour ago, Nford said:

No one is talking about how Ark isn't necessarily the one making this choice. Ark was bought by Snail Games in December of 2015. Just because they made 270 million (I'm assuming your information is correct for the sake of argument) it doesn't mean those are all funds they have access too. Their parent company essentially gets the money and then portions X amount back to them to be able to use, not to mention they dictate the size the company is allowed to be. And if your response is just "Well, why don't they just say this?", then you've never worked in a corporate setting with multiple business units... you NEVER talk bad about your parent company or blame anything on them. It's just the way these corporations work.

I knew the voice of reason was in here somewhere.

 

But seriously, Just go watch what they are literally calling "The Dupe Wars" on twitch and you'll completely understand why the servers need to be wiped and why if duping isn't fixed this game will take a final deep breathe at launch...

The only thing anyone who really cares about this genre is really concerned with is the games anti-cheat and fair competition. 

That is what really keeps players.

If WC doesn't fix the duping and update battle eye people will leave in droves for whatever game is more secure.

Simple. So simple it hurts.

 

Edit:

I just want to super-clarify this; EVERY single other bug is 'acceptable' compared to exploits that give such crazy advantages on official servers and every moment they are left in the game is another opportunity for a review or video people who actually might buy the game will see. If it really is about the money then fixing duping and under-meshing should be the number 1 priority over anything because i can tell you how every single other awesome survival title died and it had nothing to do with content.......

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1 hour ago, Nford said:

No one is talking about how Ark isn't necessarily the one making this choice. Ark was bought by Snail Games in December of 2015. Just because they made 270 million (I'm assuming your information is correct for the sake of argument) it doesn't mean those are all funds they have access too. Their parent company essentially gets the money and then portions X amount back to them to be able to use, not to mention they dictate the size the company is allowed to be. And if your response is just "Well, why don't they just say this?", then you've never worked in a corporate setting with multiple business units... you NEVER talk bad about your parent company or blame anything on them. It's just the way these corporations work.

You do make good points. I was not under the impression that they actually had access to all that money, my point was that the money has been made and problems need to be fixed. I didn't say the dupe wars aren't an issue and wiping wasn't necessary. Again thats not really my business or issue. My problem with what's happening is the fact that they made reassurances and promises about support, release dates, warning times, and so on, took our money while making these promises and then just changed their mind. Asking for time and money from players knowing full well they might run into these issues. These are issues no matter the company size, but people keep using their company size as an argument. If their parent company isn't doing their part and they have a few Million players who feel slighted, Umm maybe they should step up? I do understand why wildcard wouldn't want to say that specifically but also to go radio silent, the only one attempt at a response to our concerns was on reddit, not even through offical means, is disappointing.

Again, you make great points, I just don't have faith in this development team and I wish I could. A good game, poorly managed. 

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35 minutes ago, Mastermind42011 said:

You do make good points. I was not under the impression that they actually had access to all that money, my point was that the money has been made and problems need to be fixed. I didn't say the dupe wars aren't an issue and wiping wasn't necessary. Again thats not really my business or issue. My problem with what's happening is the fact that they made reassurances and promises about support, release dates, warning times, and so on, took our money while making these promises and then just changed their mind. Asking for time and money from players knowing full well they might run into these issues. These are issues no matter the company size, but people keep using their company size as an argument. If their parent company isn't doing their part and they have a few Million players who feel slighted, Umm maybe they should step up? I do understand why wildcard wouldn't want to say that specifically but also to go radio silent, the only one attempt at a response to our concerns was on reddit, not even through offical means, is disappointing.

 

Sometimes radio silence is the only valid option if you don't want to get fired. They may have been ordered not to say anything about it, or not to use the official site to speak on it. They may have fully intended to only do a 10% wipe, then two weeks later they get an email from their corporate overlords saying "Hey, need more money. Stop customer support of legacy and wipe the bottom 1/3 of servers to repurpose for new revenue." We don't know how hard they MAY (not fanboying over here, just arguing possibilities)  have fought to try and stick to their word, hence the silence while trying to get their bosses to agree. They may have even been ordered to not talk about the financial situation on here...

 If that's the case then having Jen make an unofficial statement on Reddit might have been the best they were allowed to do, in that case she wasn't necessarily speaking as a representative of the company and was risking her job to talk to the base they obviously listen to... I honestly don't know all the backstory, and neither does anyone in the forums.

How do you think it would feel to be these devs and be forced to go back on your word, and then to be absolutely ripped up one side and down the other for lying. I REALLY wish we'd gotten a "Hey guys, I know we said this but the financial realities being what they are we are going to have to go back on our earlier statements. We're sorry."... it would have gone a long way with me... but once again the corporate world doesn't always allow this level of transparency and it's really easy for higher ups in the hierarchy to make decisions based around profit and then force their underlings to carry out the emotionally devastating job of carrying it out. This is like getting mad at your boss for being the mouthpiece of firing you, when HIS boss's boss told him he had to fire the newest employee by end of day.

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4 hours ago, Mastermind42011 said:

I have no tears as I am not effected by the wipe. I don't play offical, I've said so multiple times. 9 million copies, 270 million at $30 a copy, whether they are logging in everyday or not, that's your player base. They told 9 million people they wouldn't delete their stuff, they would support them. There is no excuse to hear this isn't economically viable. You can keep making these outdated and already fully refuted points that have been made over and over, but you just look like a simpleton for defending a company making millions on you while refusing to pay for the lube that would make you getting screwed much more comfortable, and you paid for th screwing too!

Explain how it's refuted. Please do. Also where has it been refuted? Does 9 million sales give them a never ending cash flow? No it doesn't because those 9 million copies they have sold is already revenue they have received, you, me, anybody who has bought it won't be giving them any more money until the dlcs drop. Do you think they have worked for 2 years for free? Or that they're paid minimum wage? Do you think licensing for the ports was free? Not to mention the cost of outsourcing the PS4 version which has been a nightmare for them. Are the servers you play (or don't play) on free? Nope, at (if I remember correctly) 200,000$ per month for 2 years plus costs of keeping them supported up until the dupes began, that's gonna be a lot. And let's not forget the court case. 

Lets be honest bud I've paid more than most for this game as I said earlier, and would happily do so again, for the simple reason I have no problems with it, so to the money I've paid and the hours of fun I've had I'd not only let them screw me, I'd let them go in dry and call me Shirley all day long, but it isn't me that's being screwed as I've got a good deal out of it, servers are still live and lost nothing. Who's being shafted? 

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13 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

 servers are still live and lost nothing. Who's being shafted? 

Those who are having to move.  They can't take their bases with them and that takes time to rebuild.  Those playing PvP have another disadvantage in that they will have to fight along the way.  That's who is being shafted.  Lucky for you that you aren't, plenty of people are.

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24 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Explain how it's refuted. Please do. Also where has it been refuted? Does 9 million sales give them a never ending cash flow? No it doesn't because those 9 million copies they have sold is already revenue they have received, you, me, anybody who has bought it won't be giving them any more money until the dlcs drop. Do you think they have worked for 2 years for free? Or that they're paid minimum wage? Do you think licensing for the ports was free? Not to mention the cost of outsourcing the PS4 version which has been a nightmare for them. Are the servers you play (or don't play) on free? Nope, at (if I remember correctly) 200,000$ per month for 2 years plus costs of keeping them supported up until the dupes began, that's gonna be a lot. And let's not forget the court case. 

Lets be honest bud I've paid more than most for this game as I said earlier, and would happily do so again, for the simple reason I have no problems with it, so to the money I've paid and the hours of fun I've had I'd not only let them screw me, I'd let them go in dry and call me Shirley all day long, but it isn't me that's being screwed as I've got a good deal out of it, servers are still live and lost nothing. Who's being shafted? 

I've always said the same thing. I've never gotten so much entertainment out of 50$... even if it never entered a released status I would consider it money well spent.

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11 minutes ago, BeardO said:

Those who are having to move.  They can't take their bases with them and that takes time to rebuild.  Those playing PvP have another disadvantage in that they will have to fight along the way.  That's who is being shafted.  Lucky for you that you aren't, plenty of people are.

I've no illusions that people aren't feeling shafted, and have sympathy for them but the majority are either dealing with it in a productive way or had the common sense to see this coming and opted to forgo playing on the legacy and waiting for the new. 

I play pvp and always will, being wiped is a part of everyday life, so losing a server for most is more annoying for familiarity than the being wiped itself part. Game was pre release, now it isn't (well as of tomorrow) realistically the legacy servers shouldn't exist, they did you a favour turning them legacy but to for them to stop paying for a service that by rights shouldn't exist? That isn't shafting you. 

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2 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

I've no illusions that people aren't feeling shafted, and have sympathy for them but the majority are either dealing with it in a productive way or had the common sense to see this coming and opted to forgo playing on the legacy and waiting for the new. 

I play pvp and always will, being wiped is a part of everyday life, so losing a server for most is more annoying for familiarity than the being wiped itself part. Game was pre release, now it isn't (well as of tomorrow) realistically the legacy servers shouldn't exist, they did you a favour turning them legacy but to for them to stop paying for a service that by rights shouldn't exist? That isn't shafting you. 

I agree with you, the devs raptored themselves by saying no wipes though.  Regardless of what you, I or anyone else thinks about keeping old servers or killing them all for new...they said no wipes many times in the past, then changed to partial wipes a few months ago.  They also said 30 days notice.  I have no sympathy for them feeling the heat of not keeping their word. 

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2 hours ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Explain how it's refuted. Please do. Also where has it been refuted? Does 9 million sales give them a never ending cash flow? No it doesn't because those 9 million copies they have sold is already revenue they have received, you, me, anybody who has bought it won't be giving them any more money until the dlcs drop. Do you think they have worked for 2 years for free? Or that they're paid minimum wage? Do you think licensing for the ports was free? Not to mention the cost of outsourcing the PS4 version which has been a nightmare for them. Are the servers you play (or don't play) on free? Nope, at (if I remember correctly) 200,000$ per month for 2 years plus costs of keeping them supported up until the dupes began, that's gonna be a lot. And let's not forget the court case. 

Lets be honest bud I've paid more than most for this game as I said earlier, and would happily do so again, for the simple reason I have no problems with it, so to the money I've paid and the hours of fun I've had I'd not only let them screw me, I'd let them go in dry and call me Shirley all day long, but it isn't me that's being screwed as I've got a good deal out of it, servers are still live and lost nothing. Who's being shafted? 

It's been refutted, because your argument that its a 25 man team isn't legit. Other good arguments have been made and I acknowledged them. Yours however isnt. If you have sold 9 million copies of a game, no matter how much is in your pocket, you cannot stay a small company. If you choose to do so, remain handicapped by staying that small, you can't use it as an excuse. Also, you pointed out that the revenue they have received from us is all they will get from us until dlc has dropped, which is true. However, most games, yes done by larger publishers, don't get any money before they drop, this one has all that and potential for so much more if done correctly. Those copies I mentioned don't include SE which was supposedly being worked on simultaneously and therefore is included in the payroll you have already considered for the last 2 years coming out of what they have made. Dlc which is hardly more then what the customers are able to do with modding that they get to charge an add on price. Let's just say a quarter of the people who bought ark bought the dlc. That's another 40 ish million in revenue and I'm sure I'm underestimating considering it was number one on steam sales for a bit and has been out basically a year. You said servers might be 200k a month, you think they can't hire a person or two for way less then that(a year) to go through some tickets on legacy servers? You're nuts. They can't afford to flip the bill one more month on the servers so they can at least give the 30 days notice promised? It's just a silly argument that any company that does that kinda volume on units sold is a small company, no matter how many people they choose to employ.

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1 hour ago, Mastermind42011 said:

It's been refutted, because your argument that its a 25 man team isn't legit. Other good arguments have been made and I acknowledged them. Yours however isnt. If you have sold 9 million copies of a game, no matter how much is in your pocket, you cannot stay a small company. If you choose to do so, remain handicapped by staying that small, you can't use it as an excuse. Also, you pointed out that the revenue they have received from us is all they will get from us until dlc has dropped, which is true. However, most games, yes done by larger publishers, don't get any money before they drop, this one has all that and potential for so much more if done correctly. Those copies I mentioned don't include SE which was supposedly being worked on simultaneously and therefore is included in the payroll you have already considered for the last 2 years coming out of what they have made. Dlc which is hardly more then what the customers are able to do with modding that they get to charge an add on price. Let's just say a quarter of the people who bought ark bought the dlc. That's another 40 ish million in revenue and I'm sure I'm underestimating considering it was number one on steam sales for a bit and has been out basically a year. You said servers might be 200k a month, you think they can't hire a person or two for way less then that(a year) to go through some tickets on legacy servers? You're nuts. They can't afford to flip the bill one more month on the servers so they can at least give the 30 days notice promised? It's just a silly argument that any company that does that kinda volume on units sold is a small company, no matter how many people they choose to employ.

I've never said it was a 25 man team I have no idea on the numbers nor do I care. They're still an indie company and likewise have a small team compared to other AAA developers, considering that, and the fact this is their first foray into the game industry I would say they have done a pretty damn good job, and I'd bet my house, job and car you, and near everybody on here would too, or you wouldn't be on here arguing. 

Server related - no other game out there, especially for consoles requires the developer to host servers, thus cutting a massive overhead out of the model. All games these days are hosted by the players, usually unknowingly, so yeah they don't have to cover those costs or worry about wiping progress. If those servers aren't gonna bring them any money and oblI'll trouble why should they keep them. Also the argument that they "promised" they wouldn't wipe is redundant. They went back and forward on that decision for 2 years, any game coming out of early access should be wiped on release, there cannot be an argument against that. You have a massive advantage in many ways, and it shouldn't exist. 

Also if you think they didn't try to work on support then that makes you silly. Up until the duping arose support was top notch, but the levity of the problem meant they was under pressure to not only release but fight a constant battle to fix duping, which caused most lost characters, so what's the best course of action? Struggle to do both and make a hash of either? Or ignore one and find a way to fix it when the disk copy is finalised and apply that and full support resources to the new servers that aren't broke. Even a dodo could see that's a no brainier from a business perspective. 

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10 hours ago, Nford said:

 

Sometimes radio silence is the only valid option if you don't want to get fired. They may have been ordered not to say anything about it, or not to use the official site to speak on it. They may have fully intended to only do a 10% wipe, then two weeks later they get an email from their corporate overlords saying "Hey, need more money. Stop customer support of legacy and wipe the bottom 1/3 of servers to repurpose for new revenue." We don't know how hard they MAY (not fanboying over here, just arguing possibilities)  have fought to try and stick to their word, hence the silence while trying to get their bosses to agree. They may have even been ordered to not talk about the financial situation on here...

 If that's the case then having Jen make an unofficial statement on Reddit might have been the best they were allowed to do, in that case she wasn't necessarily speaking as a representative of the company and was risking her job to talk to the base they obviously listen to... I honestly don't know all the backstory, and neither does anyone in the forums.

How do you think it would feel to be these devs and be forced to go back on your word, and then to be absolutely ripped up one side and down the other for lying. I REALLY wish we'd gotten a "Hey guys, I know we said this but the financial realities being what they are we are going to have to go back on our earlier statements. We're sorry."... it would have gone a long way with me... but once again the corporate world doesn't always allow this level of transparency and it's really easy for higher ups in the hierarchy to make decisions based around profit and then force their underlings to carry out the emotionally devastating job of carrying it out. This is like getting mad at your boss for being the mouthpiece of firing you, when HIS boss's boss told him he had to fire the newest employee by end of day.

I really can't remember what I was googling yesterday but any thought that Snail Games was behind all this horseplay went out the window when I found this old article:

http://kotaku.com/investigation-a-video-game-studio-from-hell-511872642

It's about Trendy and particularly the time spent there by one of Wildcard's co-founders. If I had read that article beforehand there is no way in hell I would have given Wildcard any money. I don't care how good a game is. There are certain lines I do not cross.

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31 minutes ago, Vrallox said:

I really can't remember what I was googling yesterday but any thought that Snail Games was behind all this horseplay went out the window when I found this old article:

http://kotaku.com/investigation-a-video-game-studio-from-hell-511872642

It's about Trendy and particularly the time spent there by one of Wildcard's co-founders. If I had read that article beforehand there is no way in hell I would have given Wildcard any money. I don't care how good a game is. There are certain lines I do not cross.

Wow that was a very interesting read. It would explain alot about their disorganization that's for sure.

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1 hour ago, Specter229 said:

Wow that was a very interesting read. It would explain alot about their disorganization that's for sure.

I did a small quick search with jeremy stieglitz 's name, first article i got was:

http://kotaku.com/ark-survival-evolved-studio-reverses-plan-to-wipe-the-1797058373

and here is a nice extract from it.

"Stieglitz was clear about how damaging duping is to Ark as a competitive experience. “The game is very, very negatively affected in PvP right now,” he says, explaining that many of the game’s current duping issues come from the fact that the team is not an experienced MMO developer. “We didn’t really view Ark as an MMO as much as it ultimately became."

And people laughed at those like me who said this game is more mmo than survival... Even the big boss say it's one.

Anyway. T minus 45min till the end of the world(s).

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2 hours ago, Naerah(Qc) said:

I did a small quick search with jeremy stieglitz 's name, first article i got was:

http://kotaku.com/ark-survival-evolved-studio-reverses-plan-to-wipe-the-1797058373

and here is a nice extract from it.

"Stieglitz was clear about how damaging duping is to Ark as a competitive experience. “The game is very, very negatively affected in PvP right now,” he says, explaining that many of the game’s current duping issues come from the fact that the team is not an experienced MMO developer. “We didn’t really view Ark as an MMO as much as it ultimately became."

And people laughed at those like me who said this game is more mmo than survival... Even the big boss say it's one.

Anyway. T minus 45min till the end of the world(s).

Huh. Kotaku seems to be a good resource for Wildcard information.

I have to agree the survival part of the game seems to be extremely lacking. Especially when compared to actual survival games. I absolutely love the survival system in 7 Days To Die although even that can leave me wanting a bit more. Ah need more difficulty! :D

Not much of an MMO though either. Wikipedia says an MMO "is an online game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players, typically from hundreds to thousands, simultaneously in the same instance (or world).[1] MMOs usually feature a huge, persistent open world, although some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices."

The servers that allow up to 150 players can barely handle that many.

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