PVE Land Hoarding: How much is too much?

[AndrewLB]

I've been wanting to get the communities opinion on how much land is too much land. I've always been of the mindset that its ok to pillar the immediate area around your base in order to prevent some Bob from building too close which would block you from building in your own base. I also don't have a problem with people protecting metal, crystal, and obsidian spawns. And in some cases, i feel its appropriate to pillar for example the only path land dinos can take in order to get to your base. I prefer pillars in these cases specifically because they do not ruin spawns and more importantly, you're not putting up some huge wall of gates which makes the area inaccessible to other players.

On the Ragnarok PVE server i play on, some people have a far different viewpoint on the subject. Gating off huge sections of the map is common, making travel difficult for anyone without a flyer in some regions. I was curious to know if Wildcard has a threshold as to how much land hoarding is allowable, or if they even care. A prime example of what im talking about can be seen in the following images. Keep in mind, this tribe has three members who occasionally play on the server, and another two that show up from time to time. They have 80% of the land between blue obelisk to green obelisk, along the coast, as well as the swamps, close in islands, etc. The new expansion is not part of this area. Here are some shots of the walled off area...

 

And this....

And if that weren't enough, a bit of this...

 

oh... and i can't for get this little parcel.

 

 

And of course this...

 

 

So would anyone here consider this reasonable? A reasonable amount of land on a server where you hear 20+ new players per day complaining about how they can't find any place to put a fire down or have no way to travel from A to B, because of gate walls. As i type this, there is a full on sh*t storm going on in global chat on this server because if anyone has the nerve to point out this kind of behavior is counter to an online PVE community... you get some f-bombs thrown at you, and cries that you're harassing them, and that they're submitting a ticket for harassment.  *sigh*. 

[TheDonn]

So here's my understanding:

The concept of "too much" is subjective and will most likely remain exempt forever to any kind of ACTUAL WildCard restrictions/rules/regulations.  What you've found on Rag is on my Island server, one tribe/one person who spends all day pillar'ing and foundation'ing the land he feels people shouldn't build on, and that he wants to "own".  He throws the word "mine" around about areas of the map he has no interest to build in...  And I know its a little brash to outright speak for him and say he won't build in his pillar'ed off spots, but the areas in question have been claimed/"owned" by him for more than a year.  More likely its been over 2 years, and after the pillar-timer nerf recently (and subsequent wipe of all standing pillars) he made a large stink about the time it would take him to "get [my] land back".  So "owning" every riverbank, lots of beachfront, the hidden lake, and areas around his "rivals" who believe he shouldn't pillar the map to death is part of this man's game, and 1+ year is far more than needed to make a building plan for a new base/expansion in the grossly vast majority of situations hence my supposition.

WildCard took a stab at it with the pillar timer nerf, and then a double or triple pillar stack not counting as a "structure", and wiping all pillars, but the straight truth is, what you or I say is a "reasonable" amount of land is meaningless to land-claimers of the type you are seeing on your Rag server.  I don't know what's in it for them, or how its enjoyable?  Maybe its that weird mindset like, "I literally have more land than you so I'm better?" or "I really enjoy hearing people beg me to free up land I have claimed so they can build?"

TL;DR - Regardless of what we think, it will not change.

[Gelantious]

Just one of the many reason why unofficial is better, pick a server with rules against this kind of behavior and active admins that enforce them.

[Jostabeere]

If it's your land, it's never too much. if it's someone elses land, it's too much.

[ArkCreation]

There is a structure limit as to how much you are able to build before you can't build anymore.

Lets look at the pros of claiming land though and theorize with proper tribe setup.

A dino pen consisting of egg layers for imprinting and taming you have 1 male and 6 females for each dino in the game that is tamable.

There is 102 tamable types of dinos according to https://ark.gamepedia.com/Creatures. 3 yet to be released.

102 x 6. That is 612 dinos. Some of these you won't use for egg laying so we can eliminate, which is around 22 dinos which do not give any kibble to speak of https://ark.gamepedia.com/File:KibbleChart.jpg (math might be wrong or webpage not updated.)

which comes to 480 dinos.

then you have breeding dinos. lets say you decide to not breed for color mutations and you're only going to breed rexes for boss fights. You start with a base pair, then 8 pairs for getting mutations. thats 18 dinos just for that. Not to mention a buffer of 16 or more spaces for baby dinos you happen to want to raise.

You're looking at about an average of 3x3x3, AVERAGE space for each of these dinos as a trike will take up a 3x2x2 space. This is if you plan on having dinos inside structures to keep your egg laying and breeders safe from griefers and egg stealers. Most dinos bronto or larger are usually left outside by most players for ease of access and they won't take aggro from most dinos.

Lets say you have about 300 dinos for egg laying and about 25 for breeding and harvesting resources. with a 25 dino space for raising babies such as rexes. 

Lets also assume you plan going as an alpha tribe of 5 players or more with personal dinos and wyrvens. thats more space to put dinos. 

Then you have you're crafting area. If you pack it in tight for a single player (like myself) you're looking at a 5x6x6 space for the crafting room alone with fridges and bookshelves and 3 or more vaults alone. Then you have your greenhouse, storage room and any anesthetics and walls for protection. Not to mention any water pen or spawn points on the map for ease of transportation such as resource areas and cave spawns with bases.

If you add up per square foundation size for a base with breathing room to move dinos around without bumping too much into stationary dinos, you're going to see a lot of space needed.

Now most players build up in boxes with multiple floors horizontally to save horizontal space. lets say you're average player is not a landing hoarding pillar maniac and takes into account all these things mentioned above to avoid drama with other players and has a funfilled experience playing the game with all the fixins. 

You're looking at a very large base down the road after months of play. And could easily have a 1000 square space for a base if the average player wished to expand beyond a box house/pen.

That first image you posted looks like they setup a foundation area which could be used for a dino pen with multiple floors and other such things. This might be all you need for most of your gaming experience in ark. Can't expect land grabbing to be an inconvenience other players on purpose from half the gaming community for this game. There is a small percentage of griefing/trolling/ players comparatively to the amount of players overall on Ark. Not saying you won't find someone like this. There is one on every server at least.

 Pillaring around you're base where you plan to build isn't land hoarding. before ORP patch it was a way to avoid getting griefed by someone kiting a titano or giga into you're base on PVE.  This can also be used to separate you from other tribes building too close to you're base so that it doesn't prevent you from building within you're base area. It also helps push out other tribes so that the rendering of bases that are farther away doesn't conflict with other large bases. That is at least the general idea. Again average amount of players just looking to enjoy the game without drama. Not every player is an expert space saving builder in the game, but you can be assured there is a reason behind the madness.

TLDR;;

The short end of it, land grabbing might not be what you might think. No amount of theorizing or testing or talking with players will account for every instance of this type of gameplay. For the tribe you described and images of each section of their base and how far it extends I see it a bit too excessive.

my opinion:

They are better off playing on a private server if they want to take up that much space. But if it looks like they are taking up a spot you wanted to build or you don't want to play on a server with someone monopolizing land like this, find another server until a time comes where WC takes action or they move on.

[Masurao]

And this would be the reason - aside from the horrid rubberbanding - that I just couldn't do PvE. This is just sad and takes the term greed and entitlement to an entirely new level. 

[Lockjaw]

This is why PvE doesn't work without admin support. Like it or not there has to be rules for the greater good.

You should either move to unofficial, or bring some Titanosaurs along for a nice friendly chat with the land hoarders.

[powerstuck]

The way I see it...

The tribe in photo #1 grabbed that isle. What's wrong with them having it all ? 

They also made walls so they have a water pen. But the beach north of their base is free of buildings (in the picture anyway) assuming they left the pathway for those traveling from left to right and from right to left. 

Also, what is the issue in photos 4-5-6 ? Those structures you are pointing are PART OF THE MAP. 

[Shadowless28]

2 minutes ago, powerstuck said:

Also, what is the issue in photos 4-5-6 ? Those structures you are pointing are PART OF THE MAP. 

Yeah I was curious if anyone else had noticed that.  Those are structures that have been implemented that some tribes use to there benefit nothing they just build themselves. 

[ShadowAngel]

Just add tribe structure limit. Each tribe can have up to let say 50 structures.

Each pillar = 1 structure.

Each dino hangar = 1 structure. 

Each home = 1 structure.

Each continues wall  = 1 structure.

Each box without foundation of any kind = 1 structure.

Basically anything tied together always will count as one structure.

That way tribes wont pillar everything and will be mindful about littering small onetime use structures around map.

And this probably should  be enforced on PvE servers only.

[Insomniak]

Most PvE servers are willing to unpillar land for new players or tribes moving. I don't see this being an issue anymore. I realize, there are exceptions to this and as someone pointed out sometimes it's necessary to 'remove' a tribe who just claims every area of the map they can- without intention of ever accomadating anyone. Sounds like the one OP is referencing needs to be removed.

[johnm]

WC laissez faire philosophy of grabbing as much land as u can defend is understandable in pvp. In pve it becomes grabbing as much land as you can lay claim first to, which is a broken promise to the new players buying the game. There has to be a cost to land hoarding in pve, right now there is none.