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Flyer Nerf Rollback: WWYD?


LilNastyGurl

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As a PvE player, I would enjoy getting the speed back for the flyers. I do also miss the Quetzal's stam regen in the air. I can add mods though to restore both for now, but using less mods is always welcomed. If bird speed never comes back though, I won't complain, due ot again, mods.

But on the other side of the coin, I'd probably dislike it's return from a PVP perspective. It would just reignite the Ptera picking wars, but my main opinion is from the PVe side, since I never liked the 'balance' or lack there of for any but SOTF when it comes to Ark's PVP mode.

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36 minutes ago, LilNastyGurl said:

Say that when they release the game, they decided to roll back all of the nerfs they did during 256.0 ... How would you feel? As a PvE player, or PvP?

I would feel like the game had disturbingly unbalanced creature stats. Would I still play? Sure...but I would feel like the devs really dropped the ball on the balance aspect of the game. 

Quite simply, the mechanics were broken. Everyone knew it, but it was convenient. The devs said a long time ago that they planned to hold off major rebalancing until all the dinos were completed and added. That is precisely what they did. It wasn't just flyers, it was all dinos. 500% movement speed frogs that could get from the Red to Green Obs in less than a minute? 2,000 oxygen, 200% move speed scorpions that could outrun an Alpha Mosa? Apes so fast the footsteps sounded like a bongo solo? Paracers that could be as fast as dire wolves? Pteras so fast that they were practically invisible to turrets? 

The creatures needed to be balanced. We can argue about "Too much/too little" until we're all blue in the face, but I simply don't understand why people are so dead set on having broken mechanics back in the game.

I'm at a point where I'm glad to discuss the merits of another tuning pass on the rebalance to tweak a couple dinos, but entertaining the notion of reverting all balance changes in the past 6 months sounds insane to me.

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I'd feel a little cheated. I'd really like to see mechanical changes to how flight works in the game rather than just stats rebuffed, and undoing the flyer nerf would feel like a cop-out to me. As it stands right now, I really don't think flyers as a whole are in an awful spot (that's not to say there isn't room for improvement in specific cases... just on the whole), so if I had to choose between A) pre-256 flyers and B) flyers now, I think I'd go with the latter, but I'd still love that C) option where flight works differently and flyers are balanced across the board.

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10 minutes ago, spoop said:

If you are gonna use a quetzal for metal runs just build a place to store it below the mountain.

I actually did do that. As a matter of fact, yesterday I flew up there looking for any high lvl Rex's and holy crap!! There was a lvl 100 giga running around my metal smelting building. I almost did a cheat command to destroy it but I decided to try and tame it. I knew I already had kibble and plenty of shock darts etc...

I never tamed a giga before and I was pretty nervous perched on a cliff shooting down at it. After about 30 shots, it ran off into the woods. I hopped on my argy and followed it. I figured any torpor had probably drained away by the time I could get another shot but then it fell into a rocky ravine and it trapped itself. I was able to shoot straight down on it till it went unconscious, about 70 more shock darts. It worked!!

Now I have a lvl 150 giga.

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15 minutes ago, PuffyPony said:

I'd feel a little cheated. I'd really like to see mechanical changes to how flight works in the game rather than just stats rebuffed, and undoing the flyer nerf would feel like a cop-out to me. As it stands right now, I really don't think flyers as a whole are in an awful spot (that's not to say there isn't room for improvement in specific cases... just on the whole), so if I had to choose between A) pre-256 flyers and B) flyers now, I think I'd go with the latter, but I'd still love that C) option where flight works differently and flyers are balanced across the board.

I agree with the C option. What I would really like to see plays a bit off of Griffins flight physics. (Not the same, but similar)

For example, if you're flying up using a bird you use stamina, if you're decreasing altitude, stamina usage decreases...that kind of thing. I'm aware it's a lot easier said than done, but I'd like to see bird-balance discussions go that direction rather than the same old "nerf sux" "nuh uh" arguments.

I don't have insider information, but I'm 99.999% positive Ark devs won't revert to pre-256 balances...so we can argue about that, or come up with constructive requests that enhance current mechanics. That sounds like a whole lot more fun to me...but again, this is just my $0.02

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54 minutes ago, LilNastyGurl said:

How would you feel? As a PvE player, or PvP?

I would be thankful to devs. I would be glad some sense reached them at last.

29 minutes ago, spoop said:

If you are gonna use a quetzal for metal runs just build a place to store it below the mountain.

What is the metal good for if it's still a 30 minute flight from your base / your other items needed to craft something with it. What the raptor is this answer anyway ?

I mean most people have always had some kind of storage near major metal spawns. Before the speed nerf, I would fly to volcano on a ptera, clear the volcano with the already present there anky. Go back to other things, come back to a refreshed volcano and clear again. Rince and repeat until all 5 (usually) boxes were full. Then cook it in the public industrial forge usually found there. Then take the weight Q and fly that stuff home for use.

22 minutes ago, LouSpowells said:

I would feel like the game had disturbingly unbalanced creature stats. Would I still play? Sure...but I would feel like the devs really dropped the ball on the balance aspect of the game.

Funny you say that. I can understand your feeling but I also hope you can understand mines. I mean I already feel like the game is unbalanced because there are many changes, including the flyer nerf that were IN FIRST PLACE aimed to correct a massive problem on PVP. But it also affected PVE

Could have there been a better balance, most likely. Could the current solution be kept for PVP servers and a new solution, more balanced, restoring some of the old glory to flyers, be implemented for PVE servers only ? I cannot see why not. 

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1 hour ago, LilNastyGurl said:

Say that when they release the game, they decided to roll back all of the nerfs they did during 256.0 and so on. Pteras could barrel roll as their default attack again, Quetzals could fly at 268% speed and can regen stamina when you dismount, and all that jazz.

How would you feel? As a PvE player, or PvP?

I would unsub from classic flyers mod and call it a day.

IMO removing flyer speed leveling was one of the worst things they could have done. It was a big raptor you to breeders. I thought they should have just made a hard cap like they did with that brilliant blueprint nerf, instead of forcing everyone to ride the same slow ass pteranadon lol 

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19 minutes ago, LouSpowells said:

I agree with the C option. What I would really like to see plays a bit off of Griffins flight physics. (Not the same, but similar)

For example, if you're flying up using a bird you use stamina, if you're decreasing altitude, stamina usage decreases...that kind of thing. I'm aware it's a lot easier said than done, but I'd like to see bird-balance discussions go that direction rather than the same old "nerf sux" "nuh uh" arguments.

I don't have insider information, but I'm 99.999% positive Ark devs won't revert to pre-256 balances...so we can argue about that, or come up with constructive requests that enhance current mechanics. That sounds like a whole lot more fun to me...but again, this is just my $0.02

Spot-on, and perhaps seeing some mechanics akin to actual wind speed, soaring on air currents, etc, etc... It gets pretty complicated but honestly that'd be so much better IMO

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i dont know , i dont care . The big problem right now is the fact that all the tribe have to have infinite amount of explosive in order to remain in the race . I guess you would see less sniper and more flyer during raid for all i care.

Honorable mentions

-DDOS

-Server crash/roll back

-Trash Coding /Stuck in there head etc

-STILL trash AI

 

Ark for me is a beautiful top model who is dead inside.

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I'd much rather see them implement tek saddles that can slightly increase their speed.

I enjoy the flyer nerf as is though. Quetzals could be a little faster though :/

Tek quetz saddle(not plat)=15% speed boost

Tek ptera saddle=15% more damage on barrel roll.

Tek argy saddle=15% speed boost.

Tek moth saddle=100% speed boost(kidding)

 

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Interesting thread, but I must point out (yet again) that the flyer nerf was prompted just as much by PVE balance issues as it was by PVP issues.  In other words it had become an overall game balance issue for all modes of play.  The belief that the flyer nerf was a PVP thing that was inflicted on PVE for no reason is a myth that has been debunked many times.  Just something to keep in mind.

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11 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

Interesting thread, but I must point out (yet again) that the flyer nerf was prompted just as much by PVE balance issues as it was by PVP issues.  In other words it had become an overall game balance issue for all modes of play.  The belief that the flyer nerf was a PVP thing that was inflicted on PVE for no reason is a myth that has been debunked many times.  Just something to keep in mind.

What was debunked was mostly the lie they told as to why it was needed on PVE, allegedly being able to spend 100% of your time in the air, which is just impossible.

On topic, i'd be glad they finally decided to listen to the community.

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I am playing for a few days on a PvE server with classic flyers. And i got used to the slow after nerf flyers befor.

And i have to say. They need to keep the nerf. It's the Ragnarok map the server runs and it feels realy small with the crazy fast flyers that never need to land for stamina. Realy it feels smaler than the island i played with flyer nerf.

Yeah, i can sprint with a ptera i tamed with half prime, half raw meat on day 1 on the server from one end to the other end without needing to land. It feels like cheating.

For breeding: I got into ptera breeding after the nerf. Befor there was no need. But with the nerf you realy want to breed for stamina and weight.

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When the flyer nerf first came out, i was as much against it as everyone else. I just hated the slowdown on game progression and getting metal with a quetz ....

Then after playing some time i actually started to like this nerf more and more. The server i was playing on had the center map and i hated the time travelling at start but i got used to it. Then the admins of that server decided to install the classic flyer mod and i was excited for it, but after a few hours i really got that feeling of cheating. The center map seemed so much smaller again and the bird mechanics at 200% speed seemed unreal. (looked like they had a red bull trip all the time. ) 

Now i play on a server without the classic flyer mod again and i'm happy with the speeds. If they would buff speeds, give the possibility for a maximum speed increase of 40% when all levels are in it. Or make the 30% imprint buff apply to speed to and keep it at that. Any higher would just ruin it for me again :Jerbfat:

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Wouldn't care either way. I miss the stamina my Ptera had (3k stam to 600 stam...come on Ark, lol) but with the slow load times of buildings and glitches and DC's, I am fine with lower speed and never leveled up speed anyway. I don't mind it taking me 10 minutes (this is an exaggeration by the way) to cross the map on my Quetzal. I throw it in auto pilot, bring up the PSM app on my phone and get some in game trades done. 

Keep the nerf, roll back the nerf. Doesn't matter to me. 

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Flying is boring in this game because you can't crash. There's no flight physics. A flyer is a land dino with the ability to move in the z axis (or is it y idk). It's got nothing to do with nerfs. I was equally bored doing quetzal metal runs before the nerf.

 

Why is flying in GTA fun? Because gravity. There's risk.

   

I honestly believe it's not possible for wildcard to implement any decent flight physics tho, lag is already bad enough. But it's a shame cause it would probably fix flyers. You want to fly fast, ok, but hit a tree and you're dead, along with ur bird. There, balanced.

 

Instead of complaining about metal runs on birds, complain about the reason why we need that much metal in the 1st place. And those structures we build out of all that metal can be decimated in minutes. Structure/base buffs, defense buffs, turret buffs....

 

So let it die already. You'll just raptor up PvP again.

 

@LilNastyGurl how long did u play with the flyer nerf on official, did u give it a chance?, I re_rolled on hardcore to test out the new progression and nerfs that a new player would experience, and i enjoyed it so far,  the argent over ptera is now exactly how I thought it should be when I 1st played ark, which I based on common sense from just looking at them. 

 

Also I would take the griffin and walk. Wildcard threw you antinerf guys a bone there.

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