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So end of August release: Wheres the big Kibble rework? We're at cap again


JetJaguar

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capping tribes to 200 will not change a thing. People have an alt, start a new tribe and hey presto you have 200 more... and so on and so forth. 

Only the number of servers changes this. Open new servers and the problem goes away. Don't, and it kills pve community. People talking about re-working this and that are dreaming. And WC and mods talking about self regulating are living in a fairy tale world.

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I guess the problem is that dinos cost next to no upkeep. So you can cap out without issues. In my experience this is why players have tons of useless dinos. What do you need 50 wyverns for? They cost no real upkeep, so why would you want to kill the bad ones?

Players keep hundrets of dinos, which they don't need and ever use for anything just because it doesnt cost them anything.

The only time you need hundrets of dinos is if you do a extensive breeding program.

There should be some upkeep cost, which limits the ammount of dinos and makes players what to kill obsolete ones. You don't need that upkeep on PvP but you absolutly need it on PvE. I am thinking of special food needed, like the cake for achatinas.

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1 hour ago, isu said:

Most of the dinos in game already drop their body parts.  (for boss tributes)

Just add that all dinos drop their body parts and put them to kibble recipes instead of eggs.

= no kibble farm

= people would have to hunt dinos on map = more respawns, more exploring and not sitting in the base. ;)

 

I suggested something like this in another thread.

for taming or imprinting have it so that you have to drag over a carcass or give a certain trophy or resources.

I think our tribe has now just about finished turning eggs to kibble and making over 1k of prime jerky was not fun, completely possibly, but not fun. though as a result of the excess we now have BPs and INGs from selling the kibble. we're considering splitting the tribe and creating a pure kibble selling tribe.

could we possibly see a better method in making jerky?

we still have in excess of 100+ for some eggs but not as much as we use to, can actually use the 5 fridges we have for other things now lol

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On 20.10.2017 at 10:42 AM, l4m3r said:

Simple Remove all Official PVE Sever if anyone want to play it PVE he can make it on his own Sever. I see absolutly no point in Offical PVE Sever . They are not moderatet and full of greafers and Props that a PVP Sever or a coustum Moderatet PVE Server not have...

I think this comment is actualy true. Of course you want your PvE servers and you want them official and thats fine. The point he makes is that if you don't go to moderate them the PvE server are not working out. PvE on ARK does only work with a rule set and admins to enforce the rules. If you run it unmoderated it's not a fun place to play. Griefing, trolling, blocking, etc. Needs moderation.

If officials can't provide the needed moderation there is realy no point in providing PvE servers. It's another story for PvP because griefing and trolling is considered part of the PvP experience.

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Imho, no matter how the kibble system is reworked - as long as you can tame dinos, servers will ALWAYS hit the tame cap. Why ? Because easy : people will always find the reason - be it that they like to have many different dinos ( pve servers, hello ! ) or destroy the game for anyone trying to rival them ( pvp servers, hello ! ).

 

Unless they remove the ability to tame dinos, the cap will always be hit. No matter what..

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36 minutes ago, Thorium said:

 

If officials can't provide the needed moderation there is realy no point in providing PvE servers. It's another story for PvP because griefing and trolling is considered part of the PvP experience.

And you can Cage this PPLS or Kill it so you can Punish it. So PVP is Moderated by the Alphas.

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1 hour ago, Thorium said:

I guess the problem is that dinos cost next to no upkeep. So you can cap out without issues. In my experience this is why players have tons of useless dinos. What do you need 50 wyverns for? They cost no real upkeep, so why would you want to kill the bad ones?

Players keep hundrets of dinos, which they don't need and ever use for anything just because it doesnt cost them anything.

The only time you need hundrets of dinos is if you do a extensive breeding program.

There should be some upkeep cost, which limits the ammount of dinos and makes players what to kill obsolete ones. You don't need that upkeep on PvP but you absolutly need it on PvE. I am thinking of special food needed, like the cake for achatinas.

On the capped ragnarok servers it has nothing to do with tribe taming alot, it is the amount of tribes on each server, . And if you cant play the game with the dinos in it, dont add them. And pve is taming, breeding etc

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8 hours ago, Dark2084 said:

1: Set a dino cap on the individual player of 50 dinos. There isn't any reason for any one person to have more than that and it brings me to my second thought...

2: Keep the 500 tame limit on tribes. I have heard many people state that huge tribes are an issue, well with just these two ideas it will ensure that no tribe will ever have more than 10 members.

3: I have said a few times that servers should be locked to their regions.. (i.e. NA servers are only for NA IP's ect. ect. ect.) but create a new cluster of servers that are open to anyone from anywhere. That way if you live in the states and have friends in the UK you can all still play together.

4: Add more servers...You have 42 official PvE servers for Ragnarok. You can have 70 players at a time on the server. So at any given point in time there can only be 2940 people playing Ragnarok PvE at the same time. Now, I'm not sure what the exact number is but I think it's safe to say that you have sold way more than 2940 copies of the game. The math doesn't add up so please be so kind as to fix the problem.

5: STOP adding new content until you have actually made substantial progress on fixing the already existing issues. Enough of throwing out new shiny things in the hopes of distracting us so you can avoid fixing the problems. Stop running around and trying to deflect serious questions because you don't want to answer them and when it comes to fixing the issues with the game.... well it's very simple, if your current employees can't get the job done then maybe you need to replace them with individuals that can get it done. Friends are friends but business is business and if you want to succeed in this business then you need to stop being a friend and start being the boss when you're at work.

Again, this is just my two cents worth and I am entitled to have my own thoughts and opinions.

With that said... let the gratuitous attacks being..........

1. Setting individual dino cap won't change much. People will create alternate accounts to inflate their numbers. Not to mention that this will kill solo tribes. Im a solo tribe with a kibble farm and breeding program. This would kill everything I need to progress in the game.

3. Only problem I have with this is that it would kill Cross-Ark trading.

4 and 5 I couldn't agree with more. 

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2 hours ago, isu said:

Most of the dinos in game already drop their body parts.  (for boss tributes)

Just add that all dinos drop their body parts and put them to kibble recipes instead of eggs.

= no kibble farm

= people would have to hunt dinos on map = more respawns, more exploring and not sitting in the base. ;)

 

I mean they kind of implemented this with theri and kento kibble, using angler gel and a crap ton of rare stuff, respectively. But I agree, this should be something that could be more common throughout the tree. Although keep in mind that this could be a double edged sword, with so many people hunting for a specific species, it could easily turn into another spino-esque situation, where they're kill on sight because their sails (or whatever) are so uncommon or valuable.

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2 hours ago, Poliander said:

capping tribes to 200 will not change a thing. People have an alt, start a new tribe and hey presto you have 200 more... and so on and so forth. 

Only the number of servers changes this. Open new servers and the problem goes away. Don't, and it kills pve community. People talking about re-working this and that are dreaming. And WC and mods talking about self regulating are living in a fairy tale world.

This is the easiest and most sensible solution I have seen. Only problem with it is that it costs WC money.

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1 hour ago, Thorium said:

I guess the problem is that dinos cost next to no upkeep. So you can cap out without issues. In my experience this is why players have tons of useless dinos. What do you need 50 wyverns for? They cost no real upkeep, so why would you want to kill the bad ones?

Players keep hundrets of dinos, which they don't need and ever use for anything just because it doesnt cost them anything.

The only time you need hundrets of dinos is if you do a extensive breeding program.

There should be some upkeep cost, which limits the ammount of dinos and makes players what to kill obsolete ones. You don't need that upkeep on PvP but you absolutly need it on PvE. I am thinking of special food needed, like the cake for achatinas.

2 new offi ragnarok servers over 1 month, always full. 70/70 players.

This mean a lot more than 70 players on rotation. For exemple, if you take the number of 150 players :

150 players / 5 = 30 tribes.

Server cap is 5500 tamed dinos.

5500 td / 30 tribes = 183 tamed dinos for each tribes.

Its nothing.

The problem comes from too few new servers, nothing else.

 

 

 

 

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The hoarding behavior of egg dinos is a result of the game mechanics set out by the developers.

If they remove the need for a mate boost, I'd pike 10-15 dinos tonight.  If they doubled the egg laying chances of a female, I'd pike another 40-50 dinos tonight.

I don't have a 3 lvl 20 oviraptors because I just love me some oviraptors.  I have them because the game mechanics dictate I need them.  This is the case with probably 3/4 of the dinos our tribe has at our base.  I will never use them.  The only purpose they serve is to sit on the ramps laying eggs.  As long as I need those eggs to do the things I want to do in the game, they will sit on their ramps, doing nothing but taking up server space.

Setting up a game mechanic that incentives a certain behavior will lead to increased instances of that behavior.

Don't want tribes setting up gigantic egg farms increasing lag and server cap?  Don't create a game mechanic that requires them to do so.  As long as egg production is vital to taming and breeding, you should expect egg farms.  

Want to get rid of egg farms?  Rework the method in which eggs are obtained or remove eggs from the taming/breeding process.

"Work it out yourself" just means "wait for other tribes to get frustrated and quit the game."

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i knew this problem would come back, and I also realised it would be fairly quickly I just did not realise how quick.

As already noted there is a game mechanic that requires you to horde dinos. For people suggesting 50 (really 50?) dino limit get real. When stat breeding and trying for mutations you would have 50 dinos between just 1 and 3 species.

The issue here, is WC is cheap, really cheap.  Instead of reinvesting those "closed" legacy servers they promised, they closed them.

We have less servers now than when in EA, and the results we are encountering already were inevitable.  3 months and servers starting to hit cap- Ours has this weekend.

Condense more people onto fewer servers, was bound to happen.


I just cant work out, are they really wanting people to NOT play official? Its almost how the their ideas are coming over.

Hosted are fine, but expensive once you start running cross-ark setups. (I Know, have done them in the past).

I will wait with baited breath, while we build yet another base, on yet another server, to allow us to play in PVE as intended.

 

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12 minutes ago, shiny said:

This will not help...

So removing the need to have 3/4 of your tames be useless egg dinos won't alleviate the dinosaurs cap?

Why do you think that?

Massive egg farms are a reaction to game mechanics.  If you alter game mechanics you alter the reaction.

If you remove the need for egg farms you could easily lower the dino cap and not impact the players game experience.

Lowering the dino cap without fixing the reason people are hitting cap just causes people to stop playing.  (Maybe that's the goal...)

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12 minutes ago, Jaric said:

So removing the need to have 3/4 of your tames be useless egg dinos won't alleviate the dinosaurs cap?

Why do you think that?

Massive egg farms are a reaction to game mechanics.  If you alter game mechanics you alter the reaction.

If you remove the need for egg farms you could easily lower the dino cap and not impact the players game experience.

Lowering the dino cap without fixing the reason people are hitting cap just causes people to stop playing.  (Maybe that's the goal...)

i dont know ho wppl think this wouldnt help. i just added 5 more dinos for the sheer purpose of kibble for taming certain things and will add another 5 for taming another dino i want to tame a lot of neither of which i would have bothered with otherwise.

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Very easy why this won't help ( i wrote it before ):

On PvP servers, people will tame so anyone else can't. Even if they don't need them. Kibble or not. 

On PvE servers, people will tame and keep for mutations/colors , fun and so on.

In general, people will figure - "Woah, cool, i don't need all those other dinos for kibble, so now i can have 200 different rexes !!"

Re-organizing the kibble system won't get rid of the problem. 


Adding high upkeep also won't, because that scales with tribe size, so alpha and mega tribes will just own hundreds/thousands of dinos again and it will just be harder for small tribes to keep anything above the bare minimum.

Thing is, the game is made around taming lots of dinos. Aside from changing the core gameplay or increasing the amount of servers available, no rework or rebalance will fully get rid of the max dino problem, at least not permanently.

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Very easy why this won't help ( i wrote it before ):
On PvP servers, people will tame so anyone else can't. Even if they don't need them. Kibble or not. 
On PvE servers, people will tame and keep for mutations/colors , fun and so on.
In general, people will figure - "Woah, cool, i don't need all those other dinos for kibble, so now i can have 200 different rexes !!"
Re-organizing the kibble system won't get rid of the problem. 

Adding high upkeep also won't, because that scales with tribe size, so alpha and mega tribes will just own hundreds/thousands of dinos again and it will just be harder for small tribes to keep anything above the bare minimum.
Thing is, the game is made around taming lots of dinos. Aside from changing the core gameplay or increasing the amount of servers available, no rework or rebalance will fully get rid of the max dino problem, at least not permanently.
I'm sure that's how some tribes will react, but I don't think the average tribe that has a kibble farms wants to have 50 rexes just cause they can

Most of use would immediately pike the egg dinos and keep maybe a dozen rexes.

If you don't trust tribes to do that, lower the dino cap as well. If they cut the dino cap in half but removed the need for giant egg farms, the vast majority of tribes will get along just fine.

But to lower the dino cap you have to remove the need for the giant egg farms. Otherwise you're just screwing over people reacting to game mechanics.
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34 minutes ago, bigfishrob said:

i dont know ho wppl think this wouldnt help. i just added 5 more dinos for the sheer purpose of kibble for taming certain things and will add another 5 for taming another dino i want to tame a lot of neither of which i would have bothered with otherwise.

I might be way off base, but I think they're making the mistake of attributing behavior of outliers to behavior of the group as a whole.  Yeah, there's some players who will be at dino cap regardless of what it is.  

I personally think that's the minority.  The servers I've been on had maybe 4-5 big tribes who were so deep in breeding they'll have dozens of dinos just for mutations.  The rest of the egg farms are just for people who want to tame things, but don't feel like begging in chat for kibble/eggs and then getting gouged for our trouble.

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