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- Dragon boss no longer present on TheCenter.........!

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Quote

 

Originally posted by xLunacy

This is directed to any of the Ark devs that might want to comment or read this.

Background:

You are probably seeing that the community has been very agitated, annoyed, disappointed and angry lately. People need some reassurance that the game will not be a horrible mess of bugs at release and that at least some of the core issues will be looked at. A big part of the forum and Reddit comments/posts are honestly a bit too much, people demanding unreasonable things and content (read: non-critical improvements, suggestions, overhauls, etc.) just prior to release, people being unnecessarily rude or downright offensive, etc. Another part of these comments/posts however are from people that genuinely want to see the game improve and get to that level which people would consider satisfactory. Gotta love all the ideas that are flying around (that do not turn into flame wars). Naturally people have different opinions, so you will always have people that are unhappy. While people on these platforms (reddit+forums) are a small vocal minority, or 1/10th of your players, it makes for REAL bad publicity and marketing when people decide to read on the game and they get a shockwave of negativity, it is very discouraging and would turn a lot of people off.

Request:

Now to the point. I understand this is your game and you choose how to model it, but do understand that the community, along with steam reviews, make or break your business; I'm sure you're aware. You guys give very little mention of critical issues and this annoys people, it annoys them since they want to enjoy the game and they want those fixed. That being said, could you please, PLEASE, dedicate some of the little time you have currently and make a forum/Reddit publication on the state of the game, it's issues and the reasoning behind recent changes. This is likely too much to ask in light of a release in 3 weeks, but do understand that this will go a long way in making the community feel more at ease. It doesn't have to cover everything, just the highlights that people are talking about - DDOS, Duping, Eels, Cross-ark play, the recent removal of Dragon from the Center, underwater gameplay, the Spino's viability, PvE gameplay. It's also nice if we can hear on the reasoning behind taking some of those decisions, what you guys aim to achieve, and if it's working as intended so far in your opinion.

/u/jatonreddit /u/WC-Drake /u/WildcardTheRightHand

Edit: For clarity of speech.

I apologise for sounding like a broken record here, I understand your frustration and what you guys think should be priority fixes and you're right, we should definitely take a look at those things. Our development team is focusing on the offline-single player version of the game which will be present on retail discs. The reason for this tunnel-focused is because what we put on the disc, we have to consider it non-changing, it's final, won't get any updates and will be there for how many ever years. (Obviously, people can patch the game (but we have to assume in the case that they don't) and we are planning to release a Day 1 Patch as well as continue to work on the game post-release)

Post-disc submission (this occurs prior to retail release), we will be turning our attention back to the online version of the game. We have already begun rewriting our networking auth which we believe will significantly help in the case of these DDoS attacks that are plaguing our servers, and if it shows that it's still not enough, we'll come back to the table to see how we can make it better. We will also be resolving/patching any/all cases of duping for launch, we know what the main issue is and will be working on a technical solution.

I wrote in another thread about the rationale for removing the Dragon from The Center, I'll quote it here so that people don't need to dig it up:

The decision wasn't taken lightly. Overall, for the feel of the game itself, we want The Island to be the "all in one" experience. It's the first place that most players will go and they will then see everything that the game has to offer. Therefore our decision to remove The Dragon arena was because we didn't want the other maps to be a clone or a reskin of The Island, but instead provide something extra or be a new experience when you get to the end game. However we do acknowledge that for the online game, it's possible a player will pick a random map and we'll be looking into making sure that if someone randomly plays the Center or Ragnarok that they're still able to obtain the core game play items, even if they aren't able to see "everything" that is part of the main story. We certainly understand the valid complaints regarding TEK Tier and how it can be obtained from The Center, and this is something we're discussing internally to resolve for the online version of the game.

You may find that change frustrating and would have preferred we go about it some other way, however, I wanted to be transparent about why it was done.

In regards to Eels, we had reduced the numbers that you'd see in the water caves, but in turn increased the amount (only slightly) that you would encounter in the overworld. I believe we also patched how they attack too, so they will no longer try to get inside of you and be a pain to target -- I'll need to verify this is actually the case.

As for a lot of the other stuff; we'll be taking a look at the community concerns once we wrap up this disc build and seeing where to go from there. Due to a hard deadline, everyone is focused on this and not much else has been on the radar. I know things are a bit chaotic now, that should drastically change after the disc submission and we will be getting ARK to a good state for its upcoming release.
 

 

"We want The Island to be the "all in one" experience. It's the first place that most players will go and they will then see everything that the game has to offer. Therefore our decision to remove The Dragon arena was because we didn't want the other maps to be a clone or a reskin of The Island, but instead provide something extra or be a new experience when you get to the end game."

This statement has absolutely blown my mind. In just a couple lines, @Jat managed to:

  • Take a stab at The Center map, calling it a reskin, unworthy of real endgame.
  • State no logical, mechanical reason whatsoever for the removal of the Dragon boss from the map.
  • Assume there will be a massive new playerbase on release, and clearly show they are the priority.
  • Give no alternative or solution in sight to The Center's lack of endgame as of 262.0.
  • Show the community that they really don't care about longevity, rather profitability.

I really hope you get a glance at this @Jat, and reconsider this choice.
Ragnarok currently has all the content of The Island and more, with exception of the Ascension cave.
The Island doesn't have Wyverns, or Griffins, how is that an "all in one" experience?
If anything, Ragnarok is the closest you've gotten to that, and it's now dead due to rollbacks and dupers.

I wanted to beg and plead for The Center, but seeing that statement made me realize the lack of support this map will receive now, and in the future. 

If you're going to remove content from maps in the future, I hope you give any sort of alternatives, since at this point it seems like the only choice is to either beg alphas for a spot on the island that isn't pillared to poop, play on Ragnarok with rollbacks every hour, or omit endgame and stay on The Center.
 

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We want The Island

24 minutes ago, Adamkha said:

"We want The Island to be the "all in one" experience. It's the first place that most players will go and they will then see everything that the game has to offer. Therefore our decision to remove The Dragon arena was because we didn't want the other maps to be a clone or a reskin of The Island, but instead provide something extra or be a new experience when you get to the end game."

 

"Wow just wow @ jats comment. The Island map sucks and the only reason the game is still a thing is the Center and Ragnarok which were mods and instead of the devs praising superior work to their own they sound like they are poking fun at it. Completely pathetic. There are hardly gonna be any new players BTW everywhere you look you see neg things about this game. So glad I dont waste my time on official atleast with my SP I can spawn stuff in that they dont think "deserve" to be on The Center.

GTFO LOL :Jerbmad:

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2 minutes ago, Adamkha said:

Money.
This way they can charge 60 bucks for an un-finished game. 

I think your right. This is probably WCs way of getting around all the negative reviews they have gotten on steam. If a shopper sees ARK at frys or walmart they are more likely to buy then if they see it on steam with all the negative comments.

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1 minute ago, Woodsman said:

I think your right. This is probably WCs way of getting around all the negative reviews they have gotten on steam. If a shopper sees ARK at frys or walmart they are more likely to buy then if they see it on steam with all the negative comments.

Ofc man, would you buy a game on steam that has a %55 rating? 
But in store, dinosaurs and guns, and dragons and minecraft evolved seems like a safe and easy buy.

They know the recent development decisions are going to piss off the current playerbase, but what they seem not to comprehend is that if you wanted to play ark, you would have been playing ark by now. This IS the playerbase, and taking away content without alternatives is the best way to piss it off.

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12 minutes ago, Adamkha said:

Ofc man, would you buy a game on steam that has a %55 rating? 
But in store, dinosaurs and guns, and dragons and minecraft evolved seems like a safe and easy buy.

They know the recent development decisions are going to piss off the current playerbase, but what they seem not to comprehend is that if you wanted to play ark, you would have been playing ark by now. This IS the playerbase, and taking away content without alternatives is the best way to piss it off.

He has a point kids shop at walmart and kids love dinos and spending their parents money so its our jobs as disgruntled gamers to place sticky notes on the ark games at walmart that read "THIS IS NOT A KIDS GAME" xD

Edited by Shebeatsyoui

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5 minutes ago, Shebeatsyoui said:

He has a point kids shop at walmart and kids love dinos and spending their parents money so its our jobs as disgruntled gamers to place sticky notes on the ark games at walmart that read "THIS IS NOT A KIDS GAME" xD

I used to work at a gamestop, trust me, it won't stop them from buying it if they really want it. 
Kids are smarter these days though and read reviews, was always surprised by the little ones who knew more about games than any developer I've met.
They won't buy this when they look online and find a low rating. 
We can hit WC a lot harder by just lowering their rating online. 

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7 hours ago, CyanicEmber said:

Jat on the Matter:

"The decision wasn't take lightly. Overall, for the feel of the game itself, we want The Island to be the "all in one" experience. It's the first place that most players will go and they will then see everything that the game has to offer. Therefore our decision to remove The Dragon arena was because we didn't want the other maps to be a clone or a reskin of The Island, but instead provide something extra or be a new experience when you get to the end game. However we do acknowledge that for the online game, it's possible a player will pick a random map and we'll be looking into making sure that if someone randomly plays the Center or Ragnarok that they're still able to obtain the core game play items, even if they aren't able to see "everything" that is part of the main story. We certainly understand the valid complaints regarding TEK Tier and how it can be obtained from The Center, and this is something we're discussing internally to resolve for the online version of the game."

Sounds more like the decision wasn't thought out at all.  You don't want "re-skins" of the island?  Fine then redo the island so it doesn't suck so bad.  What they should have done if they wanted a "full" experiences is but one boss on each of the official maps and make you cross to beat them all.  Attach ascension to beating a boss rather than doing a cave.  You want to go alpha ascension, beat the brood mother on the island.  Beta, dragon on the center, Gamma, the manitcore on Scorched or something like that.  Would make more sense then yeah we are just going to remove the bosses from all the maps other than the island.

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...the Island is BORING though! I like The Center and Ragnarok more than The Island. It's too small and has piss-poor building spots for a good large base...

This is really disappointing...unless they got some way for us to go to a different map WITHOUT needing a new server, then I'm chalking this one up to a fail. Excluding other maps from all the content just because you want your first map to have more attention is stupid...I'm sorry WC but you are making some pretty dumb decisions as of late...and I try to be on your side to >.<

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Was not impressed reading that patch note.

First the Tek Caves and Explorer Notes being cancelled.

Now the REMOVAL of content. As if that's better.... somehow?

 

Something tells me they ONLY want endgame content on their precious Island. Which is downright sad.

The only reason I even came back to ARK was because of the Center. The Island was just... Not appealing at all.

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Provide something extra or a new experience he says. How does removing something needed for the game provide something extra or add a new experience?
I played on The Island extensively and have moved on to The Center which I much prefer. Why the hell should I have to find a suitable Island server to go back to and do all the bosses and the tek cave. That makes absolutely 0 sense to me at all. #morelove4thecenterplz

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4 hours ago, BeardO said:

Sounds more like the decision wasn't thought out at all.  You don't want "re-skins" of the island?  Fine then redo the island so it doesn't suck so bad.  What they should have done if they wanted a "full" experiences is but one boss on each of the official maps and make you cross to beat them all.  Attach ascension to beating a boss rather than doing a cave.  You want to go alpha ascension, beat the brood mother on the island.  Beta, dragon on the center, Gamma, the manitcore on Scorched or something like that.  Would make more sense then yeah we are just going to remove the bosses from all the maps other than the island.

Well, I mean, I would completely understand, if The Island actually sucked. But it doesn't. So. Yeah.

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21 minutes ago, CyanicEmber said:

Well, I mean, I would completely understand, if The Island actually sucked. But it doesn't. So. Yeah.

Have you played on another other map and payed attention to your frames?  Layout of the island is fine, outside of that...it sucks.

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On 7/14/2017 at 3:11 PM, Jamage007 said:

Wow that is ridiculous and makes no sense. It would be ok if we had a new exclusive boss on The Center to replace it but no. As someone who plays on The Center and much prefers it than The Island I am really really pissed off at this decision. Was so happy when we finally got the dragon (should have been day same day as Island got it) but now they are taking it away for no good reason. Its almost like they are trying to piss of people who play this game.

Sincerly
One very pissed off Center player

Same, even when the patch notes released we got everything together to do the dragon and unlock the engrams before it got removed. Had everything ready to go for Sunday afternoon, and the First Ever Xbox update on a Weekend drops... now I can't unlock the other engrams.... great...

Not everyone has time to make gigantic pens for 20 rex on a different server and then go look for your now ridiculous amount of apex items on a server they don't EVER plan on actually playing!

The Center map is better in every way, and they must know it so they force us to go back to the garbage Island map 

@Jat

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This is a terrible move. Let's say a third of your population prefers the center to the island. You just angered everyone in that third with end game aspirations, including myself and my tribe. It would be different if you developed a plan for end game and replaced the dragon boss with the center's Own version of endgame, but no, a month from release and you strip an entire map of the final boss. So hundreds of hours wasted building on a server that I can't do anything on because the brood mother/ gorilla give a crappy amount of element, and now I can't do true endgame but because of some dev with a chip on his or her shoulder. Nobody thought the island was a reskin. You came up with that straw man on your own. People prefer to play different maps. Give us the same friggin endgame experience on each map, OR AT LEAST AN END GAME PERIOD.

You guys have made an awesome game and I really want to like and support your product but some of your decisions lately have even the white knights jumping off their horses. Get your crap together or sell the game to someone that can handle it.

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On 7/18/2017 at 0:05 PM, Thugalicious said:

This is a terrible move. Let's say a third of your population prefers the center to the island. You just angered everyone in that third with end game aspirations, including myself and my tribe. It would be different if you developed a plan for end game and replaced the dragon boss with the center's Own version of endgame, but no, a month from release and you strip an entire map of the final boss. So hundreds of hours wasted building on a server that I can't do anything on because the brood mother/ gorilla give a crappy amount of element, and now I can't do true endgame but because of some dev with a chip on his or her shoulder. Nobody thought the island was a reskin. You came up with that straw man on your own. People prefer to play different maps. Give us the same friggin endgame experience on each map, OR AT LEAST AN END GAME PERIOD.

You guys have made an awesome game and I really want to like and support your product but some of your decisions lately have even the white knights jumping off their horses. Get your crap together or sell the game to someone that can handle it.

Well said

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Another EXCELLENT decision by WC to add on their long list of bad decisions. They basically only do those now, tame nerf, flyer nerf, content removal, fun nerf, buff grinding time, expand time spent pressing W and doing nothing else.... /slowclap

Edited by Naerah(Qc)
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well following that logic and if whats Jat said is true, then we can conclude something. since he said everything what gona be on disc will be final, that means there wont be dragon on center map on disc, so logically they cant re-add dragon later online, even if they change their mind. so if game on disc is realised without dragon on center, it will stay like that in online mode, u cant have such big differences between offline and online versions. we can just hope they change their minds and change this before official release. otherwise, whats the point playing on center then? no asc cave, no dragon, ridiculous small amount of element for double bosses, basically no end game for u. i wont ever understand why some1 is trying to kill one part of its own game. u should not look at center as on your competition, but as part of the game that further enrich your content and consumer experience.

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On 7/14/2017 at 5:54 AM, CyanicEmber said:

Jat on the Matter:

"The decision wasn't take lightly. Overall, for the feel of the game itself, we want The Island to be the "all in one" experience. It's the first place that most players will go and they will then see everything that the game has to offer. Therefore our decision to remove The Dragon arena was because we didn't want the other maps to be a clone or a reskin of The Island, but instead provide something extra or be a new experience when you get to the end game. However we do acknowledge that for the online game, it's possible a player will pick a random map and we'll be looking into making sure that if someone randomly plays the Center or Ragnarok that they're still able to obtain the core game play items, even if they aren't able to see "everything" that is part of the main story. We certainly understand the valid complaints regarding TEK Tier and how it can be obtained from The Center, and this is something we're discussing internally to resolve for the online version of the game."

Nobody cares about the story line. The story line for Ark is PVP, don't sleep, grind resources, stay alert and stay alive! 

What's the true Ark player's experience?

In the beginning, there were 4 bosses blah blah blah.

or

Hey guys, did you know the story line in Ark says...

Shut up Carl, do a metal run. We need bullets. Why does nobody ever fill the plant X crop plots. Dang it, that whole tower is down. We need gas now! Shut up guys, do you here music? Dammit they are hitting front gate!

Edited by DY5FVNCTIONAL
Mispelling

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