Jat

Community Crunch 97 & ARK Steam Summer Sale!

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3 hours ago, Wolf Angelus said:

Since we are having friendly opinions/feedback, I'll leave mine, heavily based on logical and rational thinking:

Contests should be about contents, not entrants. Names should be removed from submissions during voting and may the best content win.

If people put a lot of devotion in and do pictures, and videos or building, that is their own choice/right, and their efforts shouldn't be downgraded for it. If people just want to do 1 thing, that is their own choice too. Maybe some put 15 hours/week of effort in for just pictures, and some put more effort in, say 30 hours/week, to build/video and do pictures. No one said that that any certain person can't attempt the other categories as well. Of course, there is no guarantee where what may win.

Basically, efforts shouldn't be discarded if the content is epic enough, as by definition of a contest - what is judged as the best content should win.

I myself enjoy seeing extremely creative things that wouldn't be your "every day encounter" on the game, like the Harry Potter freeform image, or the Mario Kart track Valoule made. Stuff that really stands out and says "Wow", and unlike anything ever been seen before.


Counter Debates:
Main issue - You run into problems when one or more entrant is in the running to win more than 1 category - What if 2 people enter a video and a picture for example, and they are equally amazing and both worry of being winners, you arrive at a decision of who do you award 200$ to for video, and who gets the lesser 100$ for picture (despite both entries from both entrants being equal).**The is where the solution below comes into play to solve this

-Another point would be that a set of "regulars" have kept things alive weekly. Many have come and gone, or some enter once in a blue moon. This wouldn't be much of a contest when 2-3 people end up entering only, at least without possibly downgrading the content of the contest (Using an extreme example: would one really be want to see a 3x3 thatch building anyone could put together?)
-Winning content may end up being far less exciting by eliminating "specialty" content as I will call it, and you end up with "generic" content that is more along the lines of what you see daily, and not something truly unique (Real Life example:  Eiffel Tower is a unique piece of architecture vs a persons house which generic and doesn't stand out)
-If you chose to actively put restrictions on categorical entries, personally speaking all my focus would go into building and that category would get locked down.
-PGMs should not be included in any restrictions, unless the prize is changed to cash value

 

What you could do is custom amounts based on what you wish to allocate per week, per category - combine the first prize and runner up pools you were willing to award that week, and split them among the content that you deem worthy of "winner & runner up". Using the current prize values, say you are willing to pay out 400$ for arkitect in that given week. You decide 3 builds to be impressive, you split the value of 400 among 3. Same for pictures, do you find 3-4 pictures worthy of freeform? Perhaps the content was impressive enough that you want to dedicate 200$.
This would tie in with what others have said to some extent, and offer up more people "winning" something (the amounts would be less of course), but it keeps things balanced and fair for those who also put a lot of effort in, while giving something as well to others. You would end up with a mix of regulars, and infrequent entrants winning, therefore balancing the cycle and nature of the contest. Hopefully that makes sense!

As one of the few who has been around the longest, that could be the best solution without hurting your most loyal and consistent of entrants, and also give running chances towards newer entrants. It is a bit more of an elaborate solution, but with a well kept Spreadsheet, it shouldn't be hard to manage.


 

I am maybe the only one but I do take major offense to most things you say:

A gaming competition shouldn't be for regulars but for everyone and I myself do not mind a thatch hut winning if I see that someone puts his heart and soul in to vanilla game play and has managed to built his own thatch hut which he/she is proud of.

Why would only winning one category mean less exciting content, I think having 6 chances to win will even mean an increase in entries as chances increase and people get the feeling the stand a chance.

The next one really blew my mind. You are basically saying that if you get forced to only participate in one category you will first of all choose the one that wins most money (no surprise there as we do know you only play for the money) but then you basically say you will have so much time spend on that one cat that your content will be so good it will always win??? Are you serious?

And finally you want PGM to not be included, because you won this competition the most time of course and you want to keep entering outside of your other entries.

Your whole post seriously proves my point that we just need to have an overhaul like Jat suggested as well and have one winner winning one category each week, this competition should be brought back to the people who love the game, not people who love the money.

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Zergling963    89
4 hours ago, Wolf Angelus said:

Since we are having friendly opinions/feedback, I'll leave mine, heavily based on logical and rational thinking:

Contests should be about contents, not entrants. Names should be removed from submissions during voting and may the best content win.

If people put a lot of devotion in and do pictures, and videos or building, that is their own choice/right, and their efforts shouldn't be downgraded for it. If people just want to do 1 thing, that is their own choice too. Maybe some put 15 hours/week of effort in for just pictures, and some put more effort in, say 30 hours/week, to build/video and do pictures. No one said that that any certain person can't attempt the other categories as well. Of course, there is no guarantee where what may win.

Basically, efforts shouldn't be discarded if the content is epic enough, as by definition of a contest - what is judged as the best content should win.

I myself enjoy seeing extremely creative things that wouldn't be your "every day encounter" on the game, like the Harry Potter freeform image, or the Mario Kart track Valoule made. Stuff that really stands out and says "Wow", and unlike anything ever been seen before.


Counter Debates:
Main issue - You run into problems when one or more entrant is in the running to win more than 1 category - What if 2 people enter a video and a picture for example, and they are equally amazing and both worry of being winners, you arrive at a decision of who do you award 200$ to for video, and who gets the lesser 100$ for picture (despite both entries from both entrants being equal).**The is where the solution below comes into play to solve this

-Another point would be that a set of "regulars" have kept things alive weekly. Many have come and gone, or some enter once in a blue moon. This wouldn't be much of a contest when 2-3 people end up entering only, at least without possibly downgrading the content of the contest (Using an extreme example: would one really be want to see a 3x3 thatch building anyone could put together?)
-Winning content may end up being far less exciting by eliminating "specialty" content as I will call it, and you end up with "generic" content that is more along the lines of what you see daily, and not something truly unique (Real Life example:  Eiffel Tower is a unique piece of architecture vs a persons house which generic and doesn't stand out)
-If you chose to actively put restrictions on categorical entries, personally speaking all my focus would go into building and that category would get locked down.
-PGMs should not be included in any restrictions, unless the prize is changed to cash value

 

What you could do is custom amounts based on what you wish to allocate per week, per category - combine the first prize and runner up pools you were willing to award that week, and split them among the content that you deem worthy of "winner & runner up". Using the current prize values, say you are willing to pay out 400$ for arkitect in that given week. You decide 3 builds to be impressive, you split the value of 400 among 3. Same for pictures, do you find 3-4 pictures worthy of freeform? Perhaps the content was impressive enough that you want to dedicate 200$.
This would tie in with what others have said to some extent, and offer up more people "winning" something (the amounts would be less of course), but it keeps things balanced and fair for those who also put a lot of effort in, while giving something as well to others. You would end up with a mix of regulars, and infrequent entrants winning, therefore balancing the cycle and nature of the contest. Hopefully that makes sense!

As one of the few who has been around the longest, that could be the best solution without hurting your most loyal and consistent of entrants, and also give running chances towards newer entrants. It is a bit more of an elaborate solution, but with a well kept Spreadsheet, it shouldn't be hard to manage.


 

You forget to mention sometimes people are loyal but they don't have the time to put into it every single week to enter even if they may wish to! Real life priorities comes over entering every week for me

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1 hour ago, Zergling963 said:

You forget to mention sometimes people are loyal but they don't have the time to put into it every single week to enter even if they may wish to! Real life priorities comes over entering every week for me

yup shouldn't be about entering on a weekly basis. The question should be, would you still enter a fan competition if there wasn't a cash price to win. 

And finally having the chance to have more people win each week shouldn't even be a discussion point, but should be something everyone automatically wants as it makes for a better and more awesome community :)

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Bruncase    7
19 hours ago, Jat said:

That would be because we're still waiting for the UK retailer to finish setup. We're not retailers, we're developers - we work with others to get the game out there. Hopefully it'll be done soon! Chris should be posting when it's live as he handles getting it on playark.com :)

Feedback is noted regarding the contest, I have some of my own thoughts to certain things that I'd like to change too so I'll be talking to the guys about it sometime soon (once we're wrapped up with the 1.0 disc submission)! 

Hi Jat,

Thanks for clarification on UK players getting the CE, good to know it's in the pipeline! 

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kortniechan    137
Posted (edited)

I feel we were totally jipped with the video contest this week. though the end result was rather cool but Thats not a video is a painting. >:( 

however:

I have to say the screen shots that were entered in this weeks comp were outstanding :D !

I cant decide witch one will be my new desktop background, they are all so good! 

Edited by kortniechan

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Congratulations to everyone, amazing work!

@kortniechan  The ARK Video contest is by design pretty open and freeform, intended to show off the most creative content entered outside of straight builds.  While I really do understand what you are saying, I have to say that I think that the winning entry falls pretty firmly into the "creative" category.  I hope you don't take any offense to that point of view.

Now as far as the contest rules are concerned, I don't think they need a huge overhaul.  I don't enter every week, and when I do I have had a pretty mixed bag of successes and not placing.  I have never felt that the contest was skewed in any way, though obviously the more you enter the more chances you have to win. (as long as you put some of yourself into each entry).  Some folks do try and "farm" the contest, I suppose that's to be expected when a generous cash prize is involved, but usually those attempts are fairly obvious to spot and I don't think are a significant problem.

Nor do I have a problem with how ties are handled, especially if circumstances have postponed the contest by a week.  WC doesn't have to shell out extra prizes in that situation, but they often do.

I do feel that a restriction to 1 video per category wouldn't be a bad thing, but if a person wants to (and has the entries to do so) they should be able to freely enter as many DIFFERENT contests as they like.  This would avoid folks flooding a particular contest with their backlog of videos simply for the exposure.  I fully understand the temptation, but it is really something that in my opinion should be avoided.  That being said, I believe that the current emphasis in all contest categories on creativity trumping sheer size or fancy mods allows these contests to function as intended.  I rely heavily on mods, and have zero issue if a small vanilla build wins by being more clever (or beautiful) than mine.  By the same token, sometimes creative use of or blending of mods can be an art form all in itself.

I also feel it "might" not be out of line to stipulate that a particular video or piece of art should only be entered into ANY of the contests only once, but that would require someone to keep accurate record of all of the entries, and that might be a bit problematic.  Winning entries at the very least should be restricted from resubmission, but I don't think we've ever had a problem with that before anyway.  More often than not something gets entered two weeks in a row because someone wasn't sure if they got their entry submitted in time.

I know that we do have a section of the forums devoted to featured art/videos, but a permanent section devoted to contest winning entries (organized by contest and date) might be a nice touch.  Something that new players can find and browse through easily.  Or perhaps even just an easy to find archive with all of the Crunches grouped together in an organized fashion might be easier.  

And finally, I don't think anyone would object if more contests or "places" (1st, 2nd, 3rd) were introduced... but in saying this I also realize that doing so might be more complicated that it first appears... and in no way do I want to give the impression that these contests in their current form are not appreciated or fall short in any way.  We all know you don't have to do this, and that it doesn't "just happen" every week.  All of your hard work in judging and organizing the Crunch is greatly appreciated by the community.  That goes for the people participating as well as those that simply love viewing the entries.

 

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kortniechan    137

I think the contest should stay simple, one prize per catagory like it is, and i think there should only be one entry per person per week (on videos anyway). Spamming entries doesnt give you an advantage so pick your best work. 

 

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SWChris    15

Come to think of it Jat, I wouldn't mind a bit more variety in the winner selection while still weighting your decisions for overall quality. I notice you guys already make your selections based on what game features you're promoting any given week. This would be along the same lines because it would presumably build community participation in the event.

But I don't think there should be any rules like "you can only win once." That just heads too far into 'participation trophy' levels of silliness for my taste. Good luck balancing that!

As long as the contests benefit Studio Wildcard and build community, which I'm given to understand are their primary purposes, I'm happy with any rules changes. These contests aren't here to serve as charity funds for up and comers or as a regular income for well-qualified entrants. Although it's definitely nice when I do win, which has happened twice, my intention for entering contests is to spread awareness about my Youtube channel, and I'm happy when people watch my vids and are inspired enough by the content to subscribe. Don't need a contest win to pull that off.

If there's anyone here trying to win so you can make money, I think you'd be a lot happier and make a lot more if you were to put your time and creative energy toward something that paid better. Not sure if anyone here fits that description. I don't really pay enough attention to know that and don't really want people telling me if they think anyone here does. I'm just sayin that if its money you want, there's better ways to get it. 

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Wolf Angelus    87

Didn't expect others to say it, but it is nice to see comments that I am not the only one who thinks it's pretty fine as is, and that anyone who would like to, should have the right of freedom to enter whatever they like (afterall, no one's stopping them)! It is true that any form of restrictions will make things more complex, from tracking to judging. Some just opt to dedicate more time on a single thing, some do it over a duration of weeks, some do it weekly, some come by every now and then. Effort wise, all efforts should be treated equally and let the content do the talking! You have some who are very skilled with photos and editing, and some not so much (terrible at editing myself), some who are skilled builders, some who are learning. I think there is more expectations though from those who WC is familiar with, and I would imagine the judgement against them being significantly more intensive.

I personally love building, but Ansels is really nice and relaxing. It would be so hard to have to pick suddenly after doing so all this time. On one hand, building is a ton of effort, on the other, Ansels are more of a quick thing. 

I think it all comes down to perception and psychology. Example: I enter PGM/Ansel/ARKitect weekly, there are several weeks I'll get a runner-up somewhere and that's that. People are less likely to notice these occurrences, it is much easier to notice then when it suddenly jumps up to a single name being in more than one category.

There are definitely weeks I'll have put a significant amount of time into content, and it just not being successful that week. But then other weeks, there is some strong content. It all balances out in the long-term and you just have to keep trying. Even though I hate losing and it is pretty natural for it to feel a bit disappointing, the next day it's ultimately become a mindset of, well, there is next week to look forward to and just keep looking ahead.

PGMs has always just been that contest that sits there purely for cash. Input some numbers, let the game generate its thing, take a video/pictures and that's it, it doesn't have the same excitement or interactivity with ARK. The random nature of it prevents it from being skill related in any way.
I think the 1 thing that could be changed for PGMs is have 2 winners for 50$ each. For the minimal amount of effort it takes, even I would say that it's too high.

 

Oh, and I play 30+ Hours ARK a week (Excluding any playtime for the contests) on my UK PvE Cluster server I joined ;) breaking any myths out there. My steam activity sits at 180hours per 2 weeks of gaming, excluding Blizzard based games such as Overwatch. Basically, I don't sleep much is how I find the time to do things, I choose to sleep very little as I feel it is a waste of time.


That covers all the feedback I had. Not participating in any flame wars or needless debates, as our feedback is for WC and it is ultimately their choice of how they want to run things. No matter the decision, it won't make everyone happy, could be others, could be myself. In the end, you just have to do what you like and think is worth it.

 

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4 hours ago, Wolf Angelus said:

Didn't expect others to say it, but it is nice to see comments that I am not the only one who thinks it's pretty fine as is, and that anyone who would like to, should have the right of freedom to enter whatever they like (afterall, no one's stopping them)! It is true that any form of restrictions will make things more complex, from tracking to judging. Some just opt to dedicate more time on a single thing, some do it over a duration of weeks, some do it weekly, some come by every now and then. Effort wise, all efforts should be treated equally and let the content do the talking! You have some who are very skilled with photos and editing, and some not so much (terrible at editing myself), some who are skilled builders, some who are learning. I think there is more expectations though from those who WC is familiar with, and I would imagine the judgement against them being significantly more intensive.

I personally love building, but Ansels is really nice and relaxing. It would be so hard to have to pick suddenly after doing so all this time. On one hand, building is a ton of effort, on the other, Ansels are more of a quick thing. 

I think it all comes down to perception and psychology. Example: I enter PGM/Ansel/ARKitect weekly, there are several weeks I'll get a runner-up somewhere and that's that. People are less likely to notice these occurrences, it is much easier to notice then when it suddenly jumps up to a single name being in more than one category.

There are definitely weeks I'll have put a significant amount of time into content, and it just not being successful that week. But then other weeks, there is some strong content. It all balances out in the long-term and you just have to keep trying. Even though I hate losing and it is pretty natural for it to feel a bit disappointing, the next day it's ultimately become a mindset of, well, there is next week to look forward to and just keep looking ahead.

PGMs has always just been that contest that sits there purely for cash. Input some numbers, let the game generate its thing, take a video/pictures and that's it, it doesn't have the same excitement or interactivity with ARK. The random nature of it prevents it from being skill related in any way.
I think the 1 thing that could be changed for PGMs is have 2 winners for 50$ each. For the minimal amount of effort it takes, even I would say that it's too high.

 

Oh, and I play 30+ Hours ARK a week (Excluding any playtime for the contests) on my UK PvE Cluster server I joined ;) breaking any myths out there. My steam activity sits at 180hours per 2 weeks of gaming, excluding Blizzard based games such as Overwatch. Basically, I don't sleep much is how I find the time to do things, I choose to sleep very little as I feel it is a waste of time.


That covers all the feedback I had. Not participating in any flame wars or needless debates, as our feedback is for WC and it is ultimately their choice of how they want to run things. No matter the decision, it won't make everyone happy, could be others, could be myself. In the end, you just have to do what you like and think is worth it.

 

All things you say still doesn't exclude the fact that you can have one entry a week for a chance to win one category.

It doesn't make a competition more complex, if you win Ansel you are excluded from all other cats. Be it that you enter one yourself or that you enter all cats but only get picked for one.

I do not get that someone would have a problem with having 6 different winners each week, as it is fair in a friendly competition. There is no flamming discussion from my side, I just want is most fun for all and not what is most beneficial for one.

People might call it millenial thinking and maybe it is. But again answer a simple question: would you spent as much time and effort on entering if there was no cash price? if there was just the participation aspect and the community aspect? If the answer is yes then you should not have any problems with the chance of winning one category per week but if the answer is no I come back to what I said earlier and will tell you you are entering this competition for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

But as you said WC has to decide, but judging by the posts most people just want a fair and fun competition that isn't farmed because of the cash prices.

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