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VIKAS

Improved Auto-defenses, more types, better options needed.

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Hello Survivors,

I have been thinking lately that with the early release stage, the auto-defenses options in the game has not been improved enough to give the defender side any kind of opportunity during an assault.

We actually have two options for auto-defenses. Auto-TurretPlant Species X and Tek-Turret I do not talk about Plant Species Y because for me its not like an auto-defense (don't make any effect (attack, slow, burn, etc) to enemies it is more like another vegetable but you obtain traps instead of carrots from them.

+ Auto-Turret: This is the main defense in any Ark Base, They do damage to all kind of objectives including enemy explosives, this made them very useful to defend itselves, but have been lately countered with mitigation damage technics (turtles, golems, Good saddles in general) that makes them less a danger and more of an annoyance, also his range has been a problem who has been "helped" giving advanced-weapons (Tek Rifles, Tek Saddles) a 5.000 dead-range limit, after that range their projectiles don't do any damage. They are 20% stronger since the introduction of "Heavy-Auto-Turret".

+ Heavy-Turret: This will be the main defenses in any Ark Base. They works the same as an Auto-turret but they are also 4x times stronger, consume x4 ammo and have x4 times the inventory space (Is like having 4 turrets in a condensed state). As you have thought they have the big problem that when they are destroyed you lose a lot of defensive power, also they suffer from mitigation strategy mainly stegos, but there are other dinos with big HP pools that are used to do this.

+ Plant Species X: They do very little damage but apply a debuff and a little push-out in live objectives who they also "only target" (A missile or granade will hit it without any kind of defense from it), his main weakness is that they could be easily broken by most kind of attacks if you have not setup them in a proper way (metal caged) and the little output damage they inflict make them a very poor option to defend with them you also has to take in mind the position of the plants, if you wanna avoid to irrigate them you should put them in a way nothing is on top of the plant or they don't get the water from the rain. --Note--:  After  testing it again, the granades don't get shoot by this plant, and the rockets "sometimes" get shoot, I don't not what makes this "sometimes" but seems related to the angle in which the projectile goes against the plant :S so maybe someone with big knowledge about this could clarify it a little more, but for me they are not reliable to stop explosive projectiles (1 of 20 or 30 shoots, not reliable).

+Tek-Turret: This is and specialized turret to living objectives (don't shoot rockets or grenades) it's main weakness is that is very costly to setup and maintain them (Tek element for its construction, tek-shards as ammo). His proyectiles are kinda slow on movement but have splash damage on them so I don't know very much it's performance between it and normal auto-turret, it's more a kind of sittuations in which one outshines the other. This turrets have been changed to double its DPS after the Heavy turret introduction, so now they are a little better. They also has a cool feature that lets you choose your turret objectives focusing on types of dinos (IE: Shoot only Brontos, Turtles, Stegos) which could counter in some way the bullet soaker dinos but it has been proven inefficient, as they need more damage to clear this annoyances (bullet soaking dinos) first.

And that's all that came to my mind.

I think that they are very little options and the power of them don't impress or make think a lot to the attacker even if there are an enormous ammount of them. So first point of all would be a rework of the current auto-turrets, buff its damage (don't apply dino resistance to bullets when fired from an auto-turret for example), make it all of them are able to shoot explosives not only the auto-turret-gun.

What about some specialization options for them.

*** Ground Options:

+ Auto-AA-launcher: Only shoots flying objectives, make them 4 foundations large in order to balance its enormous range. Some kind of big proyectile cannon or guided missile platform with low capacity ammo and huge cost for the ammo itself, and why not its fabrication time for missile also. But gives them insane damage and enormous splash damage (objective is to kill the Flying rider party more than the "plane" itself. It will have low tracking and projectile flight speed + x max time flight allowed in order to make missile avoidance possible in some quick dinos. Also as an alternative an AA-Flak turret, with explosive-fragmentation-shells (Zone control) thanks to TheArkanist for the idea.

+Auto-heavy-cannon: Only shoots Earth objectives, make it 4 foundations large in order to balance, big range, and very big damage per shoot, very very low rate of fire and tracking. This is basically and anti wall-dino solutions (turtles, golems, brontos etc...) at the same time make its ammunition costly to craft, and the craft itself time consuming per shell and don't stack in 50, 10 max per stack (stack number don't know but think that a line less that actual auto-turret will be a good starting point), Two kind of ammo, AP Shells(Armor Penetration, negates till X amount of armour, and extra damage to armor durability, no Area of effect) HE Shells (High Explosive, big area of effect, great damage, no armor penetration).

+ Auto-Grenade-Launcher: It launches granades to a very long range, has a minimum range in which it can not shoot, also the grenades thrown by it would not damage other structures in order to avoid destroying your own base. It's ammo would be the grenades from the game (normal, Tek, cluster).
--Start of Work in progress--

+ Auto-Mortar-Non-LOS-Protected-Turret (AMNLPT): This turret has is own building that protect the turret and its volatile ammo, it would seem like our tipical cube structure when the turret is retracted, a little animation would open the box and the turret will  go upside and began to shoot (more damage applied to the turret if is shooted while in deployed state in order to balance and apply a opportunity mechanic to the set), this turret is a little special because you have to set once builded its exact area of effect, lets put it like a big Circle of about 8 to 10 foundations in radius that you could see and "move" around the limits of the range of this turret, when you are happy with the location of the circle would change colour (green to red or red to green) this would indicate that the turret is setup and ready to shoot and here comes the trick, it will only shoot enemies that are in that exact spot (circle) making it a very specialized turret that excels in Zone Control and damage but this is also it greatest weakness because the "attack zone" or circle has to be setup by hand it will not auto attack anything that is not in that circle. The turret itself should have a low rate of fire it would be nice that it shoots a volley of 5 or 6 projectiles that would fall into the zone or instead only a projectile that would have an enormous area of effect (half the zone at least). Now lets talk about its ammo: its a mortar so all its ammo would do splash damage, it could use specialized shells to obtain different effects IE: Cryogenic shells : they will leave a fog similar to the Ice wyvern breath weapon doing little damage but slowing a lot the targets affected for it, furthermore if the target is human apply High Freeze damage and a possibility (low possibility) to engulf in ice that target if some damage is applied to an iced target it will be magnified (x10). The ice however is thin and would not last very long (like the vine plant stop effect time). Napalm Shells: They will engulf the targets in flames applying a starting impact damage followed by a X% HP for second drain effect (like the fire wyvern) a target covered in flames will have a penalty to their armor while burning (I think it should be a % instead of a flat number to be easier to balance it). Many thanks to CODz for the idea.

--End of Work in progress--

+Tek-Tesla-Turret: More than one objective at time per shoot (Arc-lighting mechanic, 3 or four objectives balance wise), low rate of fire, good range and big damage per discharge, additional effects torpor increase of x damage application of the turret very similar to the lightingh wyvern attack. This turret don't consume ammo but only works with a Tek energy generator. Alternative way to make it works without tek could be a dedicated generator to the turret, it only could power this structure, also make this generator consume gas in a increased rate.

+ Tek-Viral-Turret: Area of effect turret, Spray damage, or big area of effect projectile with cloud of viral substances after the shoot. Very low damage, exotic ammo recipe (ammonite-bile, bio-toxin, leech-blood, etc). Chance to apply all the diseases of the game (megarabies, swamp-fever), debuff to stamina (10 secs), debuff to move speed. Only works with a tek energy generator. Alternative way to make it works without tek could be a dedicated "silo" big enough to balance it, this silo would consume gas and rare mushroms, wathever you would like, balance wise.

+ Tek-Weather-controller: 3x3 size turret (massive) limit itself like the Tek Shield. Only works with a tek generator and also consumes some exotic matter in order to work. This machine targets a enemy and creates in a big zone around it a "Zone" in wich could happen 3 things (effect change through the radial menu). 1- Electric Storm (it disables weapons and random lightings fall on the zone if some enemy is hitted by any of this lighting it should be heavy damaged and electrical disabled (like the eels attack "before"). 2- Blizzard Storm (it makes temperature falls heavily in the zone in order to make it deadly to players, also it slows the movement and slow damages the objectives in the zone during the duration of the storm. 3- Heath Storm (it works like a massive hot wave, massive increase in temperature in order to make it deadly to players, accelerated stamina consumption, and high probability of falling in torpor (player and tames equaly).

+ Aegis-BDS (Base Defense System): This enormous structure at least 3x3 foundations in size is limited to one per tribe or player if he does not have tribe. As other Super-turrets you could only have one of the possibilites constructed. This building would work as a drone platform with the radial submenus the structure is configurable in various ways (a little animation doing the transiction from one type to other would be cool), this structure itself would only be damaged by explosives and above, the structure itself would deploy and emergency shield with a lot of HP when the structure HP drops below 45% , and now i will explain the modes of this defensive structure:
    - Light-Drone (Wasp) mode: The building transform itself and now it could deploy 8 of this little drones, the drones itself have the size of a little dimorphodon and also its little hit-box this things would fly patroling in a very, very long radius from the building(Configurable via radial menu), with a real fast speed, when some enemy is detected they would simply approach to the targets (they would priorize splitting to cover the 8 possible targets,  or concentrate fire in the first enemy spotted, configurable via radial menu) and start shooting at them (same DPS and range as a normal auto-turret) when the drone health goes below 25% it would lock on target and sacrifice itself overpowering its central core and engines and charging against the locked enemy (explosion on contact same damage and radius as a normal missile). After the drone has been destroyed (sacrifice or not wise) the central building starts the construction and deployment of another one till the 8 slots of the building are full. (The building cost for drone should be high. IE: 1 x auto-turret, 1 x Scope, 200 advanced-bullet, 1 auto-missile, 100 Gas). When no enemy is near the drones "land" in the structure and await till the enemies enter the massive range of the building, in that moment they "take-off" and search for the intruder. 
    - Medium-Drone (Crow) mode: The building morphs itself and now it could deploy 4 of this drones, this medium drones have a size bigger than light drones, vulture size, they move slower than light-drones, and act the same way, the key differences would be the drone now has three weapons, two auto-guns like the light-drone effectively doubling its DPS and making the drone able to shoot two different enemies at the same time or concentrate fire (configurable via radial menu on main structure) the third weapon slot would allow the drones to deploy grenades on top of the enemies they are attacking. Grenades used during the drone creation would affect the "bomb" or grenades used by drones, normal grenades would allow normal "bombs", and cluster grenades would allow cluster bombs. In order to make the election less easy make them deploy only one cluster bomb, and two or three of the "other" grenade types. The drone itself would have 2x the life and a shield with half its HP that its activated when drone's health reach 50% HP, they also have the same suicide pattern that the light drone when it reaches 25% of its HP but with and increased damage and radius of damage. (The building cost for this drone should be 2x the light drone and also the grenades. IE: 2x auto-turret, 2 x Scope, 400 advanced-bullet, 2x auto-missiles, 200 Gas, 15 grenades).
    - Heavy-Drone (Eagle) mode: This mode make the building able to deploy 2 of this drones, this Heavy-drones are really big size (ptera, argent sized), they also move slower than medium drones, and has the same behaviour that other drones, the differences are that they have 4x hp as medium drones and his weapons are better, also they now have two possible setups on drones (configurable via radial menu on main building), also the behaviour (split-targets, concentrate fire) would be configurable, now the drone types:
        * H.D.A : This setup has 5 weapon slots. 4 auto-turret cannons and one auto-missile launcher. The drone itself should have a shield that deploys when his life reach 50% hp and this shield has half the total HP the drone has, after the shield has been depleted it would slowly recharge (long recharge time) forcing the attackers to destroy it in that brief window. Also this drone would try to destroy itself when it's life reach 25% hp or less it will activate and special mode (red light tilting, loud siren noise) in which after acquiring a long "lock time" in an enemy it will auto-destroy itself releasing between 5-10 auto-missiles at the same time to the target.
        H.D.B : This setup has 5 weapon slots. 3 auto-turret cannons, one auto-missile launcher, and a striker cannon, this weapon (striker cannon) should have a low rate of fire but a big damage per shoot in order to compensate the DPS of one or two auto-turrets. The weapon itself should shoot high caliber rounds that xplode dealing radious damage and dismounting riders of their mounts, also a vision distortion and sound absence after the shoot would help inmersion. This drone would have the shield mode also, but it special ability triggered only when it reaches 15% HP would be a special "sniper-shot" (After the auto-destruction) that would inflict an obscene amount of damage in their target.
    - Elite-Drone (Phoenix) mode: This mode would change the building in order to deploy one of this drones. This drone is giant (quetzal, wyvern size), they also move a little slower than heavy-drones, and has the same behaviour that other drones, the difference are that they have x4 hp as heavy drones and his weapons are much better, they also are three possible setups for this drone (selected in the radial menu), as the behaviour (split-target, concentrate fire). The possible setups for this drone are the following:
        Hydra: This drone has 10 weapon slots. 8 auto-turret cannons and two auto-missile launchers. The drone has a shield active in default that has 1/2 of the drone's total HP, when the shield is depleted the drone would enter "berserk" mode, effectivley doubling its speed and ROF (some effect to indicate it would be nice). The drone itself would have a final explosion device when that would be activated on drone's destruction granting itself a final explosion with a huge range and damage.
        Cloud-Titan: This drone has 10 weapon slots. 4 auto-turret cannons, 2 striker cannons, two auto-missile-launchers and an special electric beam type weapon that does the same DPS as 2 auto-turrets (it takes 2 slot weapons) use the lighting wyvern attack I.E as visuals, and it also would disable the Technological equipment that it hits during a long time (like the electric storms do in Scorched Earth). The drone would also have a final explosion device that would be activated on drone destruction granting itself a final electrical xplosion that would "lock" all the enemies it hits in place during a looong time (more than 15 seconds).
        Phoenix: The drone has 10 weapon slots. two flame-throwers (two slots each), two red-plasma launchers (two slots each), and a red-eye beam (two slot). This drone its heavily focused in damage and it does not have shield all its attacks would inflict burning effect on targets (X% hp for X seconds), The flame throwers itself would work like the fire-wyvern attack and would have a damage of 3x auto-turrets each. The plasma launchers would work the same as the tek turret but they would inflict 2x DPS of the auto-turret having a greater explosion range than the tek plasma explosion. Finally the red-eye beam would be it's special ability with a very low rate of fire but doing a ton of damage in a line (it pass throgh enemies damaging all of them).

 

*** Bio-Option: They could introduce a big crop plot 2x2 foundations in size to make them balanced, also make them need irrigation in order to shoot to also balance them. (this way they could be on par with "electricity" powered defenses).

+Plant Species A: Looks like a Ivy plant. A long retractile Vine that targets entities and if contacts them they remain in place (air or land) during X amount of secs, this could be lowered if you bite the vine that constrict you. During the "constrict time" the plant will not be able to target more enemies.

+Plant Species B: Mutant plant, as is name suggest this plant has two forms (accesed through radial menus), the flexibility of this plant also makes them costly to mantain it needs Rare Mushrooms in order to shoot (plus the fertilizer normal cost) and also to "morph" itself from one type to the other:

           * Venus Plant: Very short range, and Very high damage, if the target is a human let it swallow the target and keep it narcotized inside it till fertilizer wears out or you catch the prey of it.

           * Spine Nest: This plant has a very long range, and very high damage, but its rate of fire its lower to balance it. Its spines are covered in a "hallucinogen substance" that when impact a human player it distort a lot its vision (making it nearly impossible to orientate) and also invert the controls (up -> down, down -> up, left -> right, right -> left).

+ Plant species C: Mortar plant, it shoots artillery projectiles in an arc trayectory and make them explode leaving a zone of acid cloud that slowly eats armor, saddle, weapons durability and dino, human hp from the targets on that zone.

+ Plant species D: The D is for "Doom" :D. This monster has a specialized Crop size of 3x3 and can not be stacked (limit like the tek shield). This massive Death Tree is filled with a really agressive carnivore Bettle species that will seek and destroy targets that do not stay out of its massive range of attack. The Bettles itselfs can not be damaged because they really are the ammo for this plant, once they have located the intruder they fly to it and when in contact began to inflict a constant damage of x for sec, after 5 secs of this the bettle has grown enough to explode in very big damage and torpor application on the target. This plant consumes fertilizer but also spoiled meat in order to feed the beetles (this would be really its ammo, let it consume a lot for "bettle" created) multi-target turret. More than one bettle for second to make it really effective.

+ Plant species E: The E is for "END" :). This monster tree is limited to one por tribe or player if he has not tribe. The tree size is minimum 3x3 foundations in order to have to place it in an strategical way, also due to its sheer power of destruction only one "super-turret" could be build (From the types, mechanical, bio, submarine). This final defense plant has three types of attack to defend itself and its base, first it has a multi-target feature that makes it possible to attack and track 5 distinct targets, It has 5 "shooting" branches, that shoots venemous spines which inflict damage to health and stamina and ignores armour, it also could use a "strangle" abbility (x secs of recharge time) that would effectivily trap any kind of dino and make it static in place for a long time this "lock" could be released by enemy using the radial menu but also has a long selection timer for the option (more than 10 seconds), finally it has a massive attack "Solar ray" that makes the plant open its Flower and shoot a massive blast of energy (the projectile of brood mother in size) that deals massive splash Damage whenever it impacts and making enemies hit by it heavy burn (x% of hp as dmg for X seconds).

*** Sub-marine options:

+ Submarine Auto Torpedo Turret: As the other turrets 2x2 foundations size. Low velocity projectile, great flightime, great splash and damage (knockout distorsion if you are near the explosion source)

Submarine Auto Mine Layer: 2x2 size. As many of you have thought it's ammo are the poorly under used submarine mines (very costly ammo). The turret has a big range, and low rate of fire, it automatically places mines in a random position on a fixed radius (balance it as you consider) on the objective they arte targetting. This balances the thing out as it don't do really any damage, it only makes very posible to the mines really contact enemies (once in their life at least XD). (maybe a second thought on this one)

+ Submarine Vacuum-Projector: 3x3 size (massive). Don't stacktables, (limit like the Tek Shield). Only works with a tek Generator. It creates a Vacuum sphere in the objective this sphere has a massive radius (5-6 foundations) it pulls all the enemies to the objective targeted, it also creates a Zero entrophy zone (it lows a lot (near absolute zero)the temperature in zone, and slows target in them like the wyvern attack does, it also does a big initial damage, and a slow steady damage during the duration of the ability effect 10-12 secs. It also distort vision. Very long range, Very, very long recharge time (like 2 shoots per minute or something like that). Very, very costly ammo fabrication and time for fabricattion itself (low stack count).

+ SEMA (Submarine experimental mass accelerator): This weapon is all about range and killing power, at least 3x3 in size, this structure would work with giant magnets in order to launch three kind of ammo, this ammo would onle be "launchable" if the turret is set in the "proper mode" this mode would change the structure appareance giving it more or less "turret-barrels" and enabling it to target more or less enemies at the same time all of this would be configured throught radial menus in the structure itself, now with the ammo types:
    - Simple long metal bars would be used as primal ammo, the enormous acceleration provided granting the projectile a speed 10 to 20 times superior to the speed of sound would make them deadly enough, but this speed would also make this projectile armor-ignoring and also the impact itself would release an explosion able to damage the rider of any water tame  shooted at. This ammo could be used in any structure configuration.
    - Explosive retarded harpoons, this massive ammo would work in two phases, first it impacts but the projectile keeps inside the enemy and it is pushed a long distance away in the  same direction the shoot was shoot, after the push distance has been reached the projectile itself make a big explosion. This projectile is only able to be launched in two, and   one barrel mode.
    - Sea Urchin. The mother of all projectiles, this ammo could only be launched in "one barrel mode". The projectile itself would do an enormous amount of damage with a big explosion radious on impact but it also has two other tricks, first of all when near X range of the objective it will release till 8 "Explosive retarded harpoons" in a cone pattern with an ample angle of aperture the range of this first explosion would be configured in the radial menu of the structure, the second itself is related to the mass of the "Sea Urchin", the proyectile trail would generate a massive swirl (using the trajectory to generate it) that would atract any life-form near of the trail to it since its speed it also would generate "sound barrier explosions" that would effectively disables the life-forms that suffers the explosion due to a massive torpor increase.

The structure modes would affect the number of barrels, turrets it has. Effectively affecting the number of targets it can shoot at the same time.

      * "Quad-railgun" mode: It has 4 barrels, and can shoot 4 targets at once. It can only use metal bars ammo.

      * "Dual-Railgun" mode: It has 2 barrels, and can shoot 2 targets at once, It can use metal bars and explosive harpoons as ammo.

      * "Alpha-Railgun" mode: It has 1 barrel, and can shoot 1 target at once, It can use any kind of previous ammo.

------------------------------------------------------ Other Q.O.L auto-defenses Improvements suggested by Forum users ---------------------------------------------------------------------

*** Dino AI improvement: 

+ Purlovia: Bury after attack if no attacker near. If possible bury in the same spot it was buried before in order to make them auto-setup again. Let's face it, they are a lot harder to mantain and obtain than a Bear-trap so at least make it bury again after the attack.

+ Parasaur: Some kind of Very Loud alarm, this alarm would trigger nearby creatures to aproach the screaming parasaur in an agressive stance, after the "Alarm" ends they will return to his original Behaviour

+ Patrol points: Like it sound, make it like a post or item and put them after that you "program" the route on the dinos you want them to follow it.

+ Fixed return points: Now we could put a dino passive and some other dinos follow that dino. The problem with this is that now passive dinos "run away" when damaged so it did not allow to have the same result as before. As for the patrol routes the same object could be  put in the world and the dinos "follow" it.

+ Improved AI turret mode: Make it a Clear visual stance when activated (Arthropleura putting it on foot in a "S" shape for example). Also make it fire a lot faster because the "dino" turret is a lot harder to obtain, put, and mantain than a normal turret in other words make them better than a standar turret at least.

+ AI Priorization of targets: Players over tames or Tames over players. Not as restrictive as turrets ("players only" & "Tames only") as @RYN371 has Stated in his post, there are so many creatures with great potential against players in the game, but they also should react if someone sends a "Tame" against them.

+ ol' ball and chain! (Thanks to RYN371 and his wife): It would work like an object that you put in the ground, you "chain" your dinos to the object and that object has a configurable "chain" radius distance, once setup the dino could be put on agressive "FINALLY" without fear of losing it. (This idea is so good that I'm going to let it with this format in order to make it more visible).

*** One use defenses and others (Most of these ideas came from LastStandman, and other forum users thanks men)

+ Land Mines: Along the same premise of the bear trap, a land mine will only trigger when a player is on top of it. With a 1 second fuse and audible clue about it being active. There could also be three types, small anti-personnel, large anti-Dino, and something like the "spider-mines" from Starcraft 2 "Sparrow missiles that would be launched against the flier when it passes over the mine (it has to detect x foundations of high in order to be effective) which would explode into the air for low flying air dinos. 3 items total. The mines would not despawn, but could only be build near your base (a radious of X foundations from your base, or make it a craftable-station and put the range limitation (x foundations radious) on it.

+ Barbed Wire/Concertina Wire: Passing through this wire would reduce movement but only while traversing it. Minor amounts of damage would be applied while effected. Can be placed atop walls, could be conected to a electrical grid in order to maximize it damage and cause other nasty effects (paralysis, torpor, etc.)1 item total.

+ Special anti-armor piercing bullets: Costs more than normal bullets, and can only be fired "with" and auto-turret. This bullets ignore armour at all.

+ Make auto-turrets able to be placed upside-down in ceilings and catwalks.

Also I would like to say that these additions would be possibly well received for the two parts of the game, attackers and defenders, attackers now have a real risk to work against it, and defenders know that if they have been raided at least the attacker has suffered enough for it.

That's all that I could think for the moment.

Regards.

PD: After the recent warning made to change the number of turrets in a 10.000 unit radius (34 foundations more or less) I think that this could be useful to compensate the loss of defensive power. 

I would also like to add this post from the user @OtterlyRidiculous https://survivetheark.com/index.php?/topic/84636-More-non-maned-defensive-structures it has great ideas that are more focused on medium-game and primitive environments both of them are less covered in my main topic and I think it has great ideas so feel free to visit it and give him also ideas and support as you have done for me.

 

Edited by VIKAS
Introduction of Heavy Turret. Improvements over Tek Turret.
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I definitely want to see some more specialized auto turrets, although a few points here:

-For the AA gun, I'd go in the opposite direction. Instead of having a slow, high damage projectile, I'd say just make it more like in real life: very high rate of fire; weak but inexpensive ammo, and the ammo explodes at range for maximum air coverage.

-As an overarching suggestion for turrets in general (even if it's just for the turrets we have now), we need better targeting options. Right now, one person can draw the attention away from every single turret (even if there are hundreds of turrets), and as long as they are shooting that one person, they won't shoot anybody else. That makes it WAY too easy to raid, as you need only one tank, and then a guy with C4 can just casually stroll across the field and blow up the base. Make it so that you can connect turrrets to a "network" (of maybe 10 or so turrets max per network), and give turrets options like "shoot first" (which will make the chosen turret always shoot before the other turrets in its network), "shoot at new target only" (which would make it so that the turret never fires at a target first, it will only fire at a target if another turret in its network is firing at a different target), and "shoot at XXX only" (which would open up a radial menu that allows you to select which creatures it'll fire at; so you can select "carbos and brontos" and the selected turret will only ever fire at those two creatures (useful for those heavy cannons you suggested, or even more useful for other turrets, you could check everything BUT those two creatures so that it won't shoot at tanks)).

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12 minutes ago, TheArkanist said:

I definitely want to see some more specialized auto turrets, although a few points here:

-For the AA gun, I'd go in the opposite direction. Instead of having a slow, high damage projectile, I'd say just make it more like in real life: very high rate of fire; weak but inexpensive ammo, and the ammo explodes at range for maximum air coverage.

-As an overarching suggestion for turrets in general (even if it's just for the turrets we have now), we need better targeting options. Right now, one person can draw the attention away from every single turret (even if there are hundreds of turrets), and as long as they are shooting that one person, they won't shoot anybody else. That makes it WAY too easy to raid, as you need only one tank, and then a guy with C4 can just casually stroll across the field and blow up the base. Make it so that you can connect turrrets to a "network" (of maybe 10 or so turrets max per network), and give turrets options like "shoot first" (which will make the chosen turret always shoot before the other turrets in its network), "shoot at new target only" (which would make it so that the turret never fires at a target first, it will only fire at a target if another turret in its network is firing at a different target), and "shoot at XXX only" (which would open up a radial menu that allows you to select which creatures it'll fire at; so you can select "carbos and brontos" and the selected turret will only ever fire at those two creatures (useful for those heavy cannons you suggested, or even more useful for other turrets, you could check everything BUT those two creatures so that it won't shoot at tanks)).

For the AA I love Flak guns, what about addint it also (maybe it's only me but I really see few options, I don't have to think what kind of auto put in here or there..)It's only for the evasion of cluster-grenade bombing quetzals and big sky targets and let the speedier flier with good hands make the missile miss, that I have put the "patriot system" in it.

For the target options I'm with you, some kind of mechanic, object or something that could make the turrets target more than one objective (first in range till death normally) would make wonders.

Many thanks for your ideas.

Regards.

 

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I think it would be nice if tamed creature AI were improved such that they could be better utilized for defense.

 

Because they get so easily stuck on objects, and they're easily lured away, utilizing 'guard dogs' seems to yield more of a nuisance than a viable means for defense.  With perhaps a couple of exceptions...

 

This could also include elements related to turret modes and the wandering mechanic, in addition to simply being able to navigate around objects, and potentially being able to determine if a target is inaccessible, or too far away, or being able to intentionally attempt to take cover from enemy fire when an enemy is inaccessible or out of 'range.'

 

As for wandering, being able to set patrol points would be interesting.  Also, being able to group creatures together as sort of 'follow units,' for lack of a better term (that is, a group that attempts to move and attack together as a unit).

 

As for creatures with a turret mode, it could be improved, for sure.  For example, as far as I've seen, besides non-poison drakes, creatures with a ranged attack telegraph too much, have too short of a range, and are extremely inaccurate, and the very low speed of the projectile is a large part of this.  Ever have an agouti or a tiger urine spray you?  It happens really, really fast.  There's not much you can do to get out of the way, except in the case of the cat, if you catch it getting ready and get the schnit out of the way.  Statistically, creatures like dilos and arthros may not be such a useful creature for battle, but utilized cleverly in a base layout, they could be somewhat effective in a defense.  As for the elemental, its rock throw should be more violently hurled as well (that is, a faster projectile), and when turret mode is engaged, it should rapidly pick up boulders and toss them at the target.  Dragons, I only noticed the other day have a turret mode option, and I have not tried it, though I would guess that it's probably not that great, either, largely because the only one that has reasonable range is the slow-moving poison spit, and they're such a large and obvious target as to be difficult to successfully utilize anyway (again, with exceptions).

 

I quite like the ideas presented of more varieties of organic defenses in the form of defensive plants.  The plant Y was an interesting idea, but poorly executed - for it to be effective, the plant essentially needs to be more like a sarlacc in function.  That is, you place it, it's there until it's destroyed, and it's very hard to see until you're on top of it.  Holds you there, and deals damage until you fight your way free.  <Jabba laugh> Hoh, hoh, hoh, hohhh!

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4 minutes ago, RYN371 said:

I think it would be nice if tamed creature AI were improved such that they could be better utilized for defense.

 

Because they get so easily stuck on objects, and they're easily lured away, utilizing 'guard dogs' seems to yield more of a nuisance than a viable means for defense.  With perhaps a couple of exceptions...

 

This could also include elements related to turret modes and the wandering mechanic, in addition to simply being able to navigate around objects, and potentially being able to determine if a target is inaccessible, or too far away, or being able to intentionally attempt to take cover from enemy fire when an enemy is inaccessible or out of 'range.'

 

As for wandering, being able to set patrol points would be interesting.  Also, being able to group creatures together as sort of 'follow units,' for lack of a better term (that is, a group that attempts to move and attack together as a unit).

 

As for creatures with a turret mode, it could be improved, for sure.  For example, as far as I've seen, besides non-poison drakes, creatures with a ranged attack telegraph too much, have too short of a range, and are extremely inaccurate, and the very low speed of the projectile is a large part of this.  Ever have an agouti or a tiger urine spray you?  It happens really, really fast.  There's not much you can do to get out of the way, except in the case of the cat, if you catch it getting ready and get the schnit out of the way.  Statistically, creatures like dilos and arthros may not be such a useful creature for battle, but utilized cleverly in a base layout, they could be somewhat effective in a defense.  As for the elemental, its rock throw should be more violently hurled as well (that is, a faster projectile), and when turret mode is engaged, it should rapidly pick up boulders and toss them at the target.  Dragons, I only noticed the other day have a turret mode option, and I have not tried it, though I would guess that it's probably not that great, either, largely because the only one that has reasonable range is the slow-moving poison spit, and they're such a large and obvious target as to be difficult to successfully utilize anyway (again, with exceptions).

 

I quite like the ideas presented of more varieties of organic defenses in the form of defensive plants.  The plant Y was an interesting idea, but poorly executed - for it to be effective, the plant essentially needs to be more like a sarlacc in function.  That is, you place it, it's there until it's destroyed, and it's very hard to see until you're on top of it.  Holds you there, and deals damage until you fight your way free.  <Jabba laugh> Hoh, hoh, hoh, hohhh!

I love your ideas, I would like them to be added to what I have proposed in first place. 

I also think, that maybe the defender dinos could use the AI that protects wild dinos in the wilderness (you know, the tame flees when it has lots of torpor or could not reach you) but instead of only fleeing they will "flee" and after that will return to the attack.

Dinos with turret mode should change a lot, if I will use a dino only to work like a turret I'll expect that this kind of turret it's more effective that an auto-turret and no less effective, nowadays the dino is way worst than the turret.

They should fire faster, and longer (the same range as an auto-turret) the dinos take a lot more space than the turret so it will be balanced.

Thanks for posting, let's make ARK great again.

Regards

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Don't forget about the purlovias, as is they are fairly decent. A few improvements to them would go a long ways. Maybe a retreat to home spot and a auto rebury option. 

Love the auto launcher idea. Maybe a high range, fast shooting gun. Large and can hold 4 shots but has a longish reload timer to it.

Maybe even a long-range gun. Would be perfect to combat players who snipe from high up in the air where it's not easily defended. Slow shooting but high damage.

Automated ballista. Similar design to the ballista turret, but shoots arrows. Either metal, tranq, flame, or regular arrows. Powered electrically, firing rate can be adjusted but doesn't have a very long range.

Plant species Z. Sap shooting plant. Very slow fire rate but can cause temporary encumberance to dinos if they are hit enough by it. Causes no damage but consumes extra fert when firing. 

Plant species Y rework. Traps are produced at a slower pace. But, the traps are now permanent and do not degrade. Good for catching players for a very brief period. 

Dinosaurs. Dinos can be set to a stasis position where they do no move but can be put on neutral or aggressive. (No more luring dinos to different locations) or an option where they only go a specified distance before returning to their original spot.

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On 7/18/2017 at 1:51 AM, Colbeh said:

Don't forget about the purlovias, as is they are fairly decent. A few improvements to them would go a long ways. Maybe a retreat to home spot and a auto rebury option. 

Oh, I did forget about purlovia.  I've read about them and seen them in videos, and I've long wanted to give them a try, but I haven't yet dedicated the time to acquiring any.  With my outpost on the island mostly destroyed, it may be quite a while longer, now...

 

The mechanic certainly sounds intriguing, but could most definitely be improved.  Having never tried one before, I can only speculate from these statements that not unlike the rock golem not necessarily returning to disguise mode, the purlovia does not necessarily burrow again after ambushing.  It would be excellent if the creature would simply return to the position it was originially buried in and burrow again, go to another designated point, or simply burrow in where it ends up after it leaves combat.

 

A variation of this mechanic with thylacoleo would also be rather interesting.  In the same way, a "hunt" mechanic for things like raptors could be helpful.  Define a group of raptors, send them on a prescribed route to "hunt" on, where they patrol about and intelligently (hopefully) attack targets with a hit-and-run guerilla style until the targets are dead.  Just spitballin'.

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9 hours ago, RYN371 said:

Oh, I did forget about purlovia.  I've read about them and seen them in videos, and I've long wanted to give them a try, but I haven't yet dedicated the time to acquiring any.  With my outpost on the island mostly destroyed, it may be quite a while longer, now...

 

The mechanic certainly sounds intriguing, but could most definitely be improved.  Having never tried one before, I can only speculate from these statements that not unlike the rock golem not necessarily returning to disguise mode, the purlovia does not necessarily burrow again after ambushing.  It would be excellent if the creature would simply return to the position it was originially buried in and burrow again, go to another designated point, or simply burrow in where it ends up after it leaves combat.

 

A variation of this mechanic with thylacoleo would also be rather interesting.  In the same way, a "hunt" mechanic for things like raptors could be helpful.  Define a group of raptors, send them on a prescribed route to "hunt" on, where they patrol about and intelligently (hopefully) attack targets with a hit-and-run guerilla style until the targets are dead.  Just spitballin'.

Really love the options that you both are talking about for the dinos, I think that I'm going to add another section in the main post to talk about these AI improvements (purlovias auto-setting up again after an attack is something that should work that way in base, it's not easy to tame them so they should be better than a bear-trap IMHO).

Thanks for the Ideas Survivors, Let's make Defenses Shine again. We are Turtles, give us our Spiky Shells (sorry I have emoted myself XD)

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2 hours ago, DESTROYER said:

A simple way to improve the situation is armor piercing bullets, completely ignores armor can be used in auto turrets and is more expensive.

Without a doubt this won't fix everything but will make it somewhat harder to raid.

I like it.

 

Edit:  Often the most simple solutions are the best solutions.

Edited by RYN371
Afterthought due to too many beers
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I'd like two major improvements to auto defenses personally.

1: some sort of ammo dump for auto turrets so you didn't have to reload each one manually, as checking/reloading them on a base that might have hundreds of them is painful and extremely tedious.( even if we can have ammo feed lines like how we have electrical and water lines.)

2: Hydroponics setup for plants/ plant turrets, as again refilling 200-400 plant turrets with fertilizer is incredibly tedious.

 

there more quality of life improvements rather then defense improvements but it'd make things alot easier as often only way you have to improve your defense is just to improve the volume of fire, and at some point merely the upkeep on your base becomes all you can do.

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1 hour ago, Zortesh said:

I'd like two major improvements to auto defenses personally.

1: some sort of ammo dump for auto turrets so you didn't have to reload each one manually, as checking/reloading them on a base that might have hundreds of them is painful and extremely tedious.( even if we can have ammo feed lines like how we have electrical and water lines.)

2: Hydroponics setup for plants/ plant turrets, as again refilling 200-400 plant turrets with fertilizer is incredibly tedious.

 

there more quality of life improvements rather then defense improvements but it'd make things alot easier as often only way you have to improve your defense is just to improve the volume of fire, and at some point merely the upkeep on your base becomes all you can do.

the turd silo and egg grabber from S+ i think would be a godsend

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Hello survivors,

Many thanks to the last survivors to reply to the post.

I will update the main post with the addition of distinct ammo types, quality of life feautures (like the setup to recharge, turrets, plants hydroponics)

Thanks to all of you, the post it's getting great because of your ideas.

Also I also think that the simple ideas are often the best, but I really think that we "deserve" to have more options with distinct animations, effects, etc.

I'll assure you, RYN that if all of the turrets get introduced, you will try to build at least one of each o them to see how it shoots, after that you are "trapped" like me in this kind of things.

Regards and thanks all for your replies.

Edited by VIKAS

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Had another thought regarding creatures as defensive units.

 

Turrets have a behavior option to determine what targets to shoot at.  It would be handy if, like turrets, creatures had a behavior option in much the same way.  However, to work effectively, it would not have to be as black-and-white as the turrets.  That is, instead of having the options, "Players Only," "Players & Tames," "Wild Only," or "All Targets," the function would determine target priorities.

 

For example, say you utilize a variety of creatures in packs as defensive units.  Among one of those units, there may be very large, tanky creatures, like rexes, and smaller more squishy creatures, such as carnos and raptors.  It would make sense to set rexes and other more sturdy creatures to prioritize enemy tames over players, and for smaller ones more sensible to prioritize targeting players before tames.  This is even more apparent if you consider using even smaller creatures such as the microraptor and troodons for their incapacitating abilities - for a microraptor to attack a turtle, rex, or what have you before infantry would be useless.

 

I specify that the function should be "prioritizing" because it would not be functional for it to work like turrets, where then a creature may be set to attack Players Only, therefore killing any players in the vicinity during battle, and then standing around completely ignoring a bronto running in to tank bullets.

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18 hours ago, VIKAS said:

I'll assure you, RYN that if all of the turrets get introduced, you will try to build at least one of each o them to see how it shoots, after that you are "trapped" like me in this kind of things.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to say.  However, I would absolutely and quite happily try out any new turrets introduced, if they add more one day.

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9 hours ago, RYN371 said:

Had another thought regarding creatures as defensive units.

 

Turrets have a behavior option to determine what targets to shoot at.  It would be handy if, like turrets, creatures had a behavior option in much the same way.  However, to work effectively, it would not have to be as black-and-white as the turrets.  That is, instead of having the options, "Players Only," "Players & Tames," "Wild Only," or "All Targets," the function would determine target priorities.

 

For example, say you utilize a variety of creatures in packs as defensive units.  Among one of those units, there may be very large, tanky creatures, like rexes, and smaller more squishy creatures, such as carnos and raptors.  It would make sense to set rexes and other more sturdy creatures to prioritize enemy tames over players, and for smaller ones more sensible to prioritize targeting players before tames.  This is even more apparent if you consider using even smaller creatures such as the microraptor and troodons for their incapacitating abilities - for a microraptor to attack a turtle, rex, or what have you before infantry would be useless.

 

I specify that the function should be "prioritizing" because it would not be functional for it to work like turrets, where then a creature may be set to attack Players Only, therefore killing any players in the vicinity during battle, and then standing around completely ignoring a bronto running in to tank bullets.

Updated with this so much needed functionality "make tames attack first "players" if no players left go against "Tames". Also the reverse way.

Thanks RYN371.

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