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The Ark Devs HAVE to address the problem of Alpha/Mega Tribes ruining servers


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11 hours ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Did you even play before the transfer was enabled? Imagine that alphas can't fight each other, so they're stuck bore din dead servers wiping everyone in a thatch hut. 

10 players per tribe? Pah! I'm in a small tribe and we're almost there. Also, alliances. 

I can't even... Do you even know this game? 

Whose fault is that? Not anyone elses concern you ran people off on your server and now you are bored because you killed what community your server. Problem is most people doing these transfers arent raiding other alpha tribes, they are targeting weaker players while offline. There is pvp and there is just Griefing. I dont mind PVP but i want a community to form, we got too many people running to private servers to the point where we just have Mega tribes vs mega tribes on a server. If thats how the game is to be played then maybe they should change from PvP to Server vs Server

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10 hours ago, St1ckyBandit said:

Hate to be one of those go to PVE if you cant handle PVP guys, but its true.

 

You have 3 choices in pvp

Join an alpha or alpha affiliate 

Build/play extremely stealthily 

Find a chill server with a friendly alpha

 

The third one seems to be extremely rare and generally alphas wont let people join willy nilly, so the best bet is to build small and stay hidden.

Yea you gotta join a server and play mad politics if you want to join an Alpha in most cases. 3rd option is non-existent lol. I joined one server where if you didnt talk in chat you would be attacked because the Alpha tribe didnt know you. They felt you would be sneaky, build up and attack them so they wanted to know everyone on the server. Most of the Metal was taken over by them but they would help peeps out. Thats was actually the most friendliest Alpha tribe I ever met. Sadly they were wiped cleaned by another tribe transfer lol.  

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Throw my thoughts into this well worn topic? Suuuuuuurrrrrre!

IMHO, I think ARK PVP needs LESS game mechanics in order to mitigate the Alpha Hordes. A removal of presumed QoL features would subtly effect the internal strength of these guilds/tribes... and make them a more 'realistic' politic.

1) Tribe membership should not convey open sharing of tames. No Sharing tames... period. You can GIVE a tame, but that tame is now 100% under the ownership and control of the member. This makes tame ownership far more precious... and raid missions far more perilous. You die? You're tame is rogue and vulnerable... and is likely out of the fight, unable to be whistle controlled by your tribe mates. This totally changes the dynamic of a raid assault. The one thing I would keep is that a Tame that is not set to passive WILL aggro if a tribe mate is attacked.

2) Tribe buildings are not shared. You still need to either unlock or code... THEN decide to share the code. Coming from UO in the olden days of yore... we had thriving guilds... but there was ALWAYS a hesitancy about sharing a 'key' for the big house. Why do this? well, like the taming thing... it makes more sense. A guild membership isn't a magic wand that changes the doors and walls. They are still doors and walls. But the real hook is that it changes the psychology of property management. You choose what is guild and what is MINE. It opens the doors for paranoia and avarice.

3) Remove event logging. You're tribe's shiny Rex is gone? Huh... wonder what happened??? Was he raid killed? Or... did that new guy kill him? It couldn't have been that guy that has been so loyal for months, right??? OMG! All out fridges and boxes have been smashed/grabbed!!! PARANOIA. 

4) Remove item/tame transfers. If you are going to invade... you need to build strength on the beachhead. 

 

So... those are my thoughts. The goal is to remove 'tribe quality of life' game features and make the only advantage to tribe membership the shared 'tagging' for Us versus Them mechanics, but other than that... we are all individuals.

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I feel this need to be put in the ground now.

Its a open world game, it means people can do what the hell they want.

Yes there is "Alpha" tribes on servers and its a part of the game. You are a survivor and you are meant to have a hard time, and if you want to join a alpha tribe you can do it. If you are that kind of a person that do like the game and spend some time on it.

I know a lot of big tribes makes it hard, and exploit the game like blocking spawns etc in pve. But then again its up you you to report it. 

On pvp, everything is allowed.

Stop "crying" about it and report if someone is doing something thats its against the rules easy as that.

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2 hours ago, iStephano said:

I feel this need to be put in the ground now.

Its a open world game, it means people can do what the hell they want.

Yes there is "Alpha" tribes on servers and its a part of the game. You are a survivor and you are meant to have a hard time, and if you want to join a alpha tribe you can do it. If you are that kind of a person that do like the game and spend some time on it.

I know a lot of big tribes makes it hard, and exploit the game like blocking spawns etc in pve. But then again its up you you to report it. 

On pvp, everything is allowed.

Stop "crying" about it and report if someone is doing something thats its against the rules easy as that.

You don't get to decide when a discussion needs to stop.

An open world game does not mean people can do what they want.

Survivors are to have a hard time against the world elements, not exploits/grierfers.

Exploits are also used in PVP.

On PVP not everything is allowed.

No one is crying. We are voicing our concerns in hopes that these gaps are filled before launch. The developers listen more to the older players, who most likely are part of large tribes already. What they really need to do is listen to a new player, buying the game brand new, jumping on a sort of fresh server...and being unable to enjoy some of the most basic aspects of PVP. It should be player versus player, not the new world order versus 5 real life friends trying to enjoy the game and fight against other 5 member tribes with real life friends. Meeting new friends, fighting over land, small battles are what make a war. Not full on 500 dino, 10,000 C4 ark transfers from 100 random people tribes that own multiple servers already and are just bored.

I've read the argument a few times that if ark transfer end, well then alpha tribes will just own multiple servers. Fine. That just means more effort on their part before they get to all of them. I've also heard well they will get bored and be bullies on the server they own...yes exactly, so people will leave..find more reasonable servers ..leave the rude alpha tribes to alienate themselves on the server they ruined. Why do we want to give them an out to easily do the same elsewhere at anytime with no thought about why their server is no longer populated?

 

That being said Ganelon, your suggestions are very outside the box. Great job providing some positive and unique suggestions!

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30 minutes ago, Rep said:

You don't get to decide when a discussion needs to stop.

An open world game does not mean people can do what they want.

Survivors are to have a hard time against the world elements, not exploits/grierfers.

Exploits are also used in PVP.

On PVP not everything is allowed.

No one is crying. We are voicing our concerns in hopes that these gaps are filled before launch. The developers listen more to the older players, who most likely are part of large tribes already. What they really need to do is listen to a new player, buying the game brand new, jumping on a sort of fresh server...and being unable to enjoy some of the most basic aspects of PVP. It should be player versus player, not the new world order versus 5 real life friends trying to enjoy the game and fight against other 5 member tribes with real life friends. Meeting new friends, fighting over land, small battles are what make a war. Not full on 500 dino, 10,000 C4 ark transfers from 100 random people tribes that own multiple servers already and are just bored.

I've read the argument a few times that if ark transfer end, well then alpha tribes will just own multiple servers. Fine. That just means more effort on their part before they get to all of them. I've also heard well they will get bored and be bullies on the server they own...yes exactly, so people will leave..find more reasonable servers ..leave the rude alpha tribes to alienate themselves on the server they ruined. Why do we want to give them an out to easily do the same elsewhere at anytime with no thought about why their server is no longer populated?

 

That being said Ganelon, your suggestions are very outside the box. Great job providing some positive and unique suggestions!

Yea you get those who "whine" about people "whining" and they say just shut up and let it be. These are the same who WHINED about a wipe because they are part of the Alpha tribes that do this crap.

 

New players that join when the game launches are going to have a poop show to deal with because of these types of players who "Im bored cause my server is dead, lets kill it some more" and i rather new people who get the game get it to enjoy not be exposed to this toxic community. I actually want official servers that are alive. Not a bunch of people playing worship to some alpha tribe who is holding them by the balls

 

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PvP servers will likely get wiped because the item duping affected PvP gameplay more greatly than it did PvE. With a PvP wipe, players and tribes can start over and there will be chances for new alpha tribes to take over. Hopefully fairer tribes. Unfortunately, the chance of being raided and maybe getting wrecked will always be there.

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22 minutes ago, BlueFox91 said:

PvP servers will likely get wiped because the item duping affected PvP gameplay more greatly than it did PvE. With a PvP wipe, players and tribes can start over and there will be chances for new alpha tribes to take over. Hopefully fairer tribes. Unfortunately, the chance of being raided and maybe getting wrecked will always be there.

Well, we already know that the servers are NOT going to be wiped. The State of the Game post a few days ago makes that VERY clear. And the PC gamer interview on the matter further re-enforces that.

http://www.pcgamer.com/ark-survival-evolveds-design-lead-on-huge-server-wipe-reversal-and-new-structure-post-pc-launch/

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alot of people here think, they are entitled to determine what is ofc pvp n what is not.. i dare to bet, from the 11million people that bought ark, these people are in very small minority.

pvp stand for "player vs player". wait until the whole server only got 3 player (cus its 4am in that region), then send in 20+ player to invade is not player vs player. cus the defender got no player to defend, how that consider a pvp?? now, dont get me wrong, i am not saying i am totally against offline raid. totally safe from offline raid would be very-very destructive to the game too..

what i am saying is, to put a certain limit to make the game mechanic much more interesting.. more action n more "PVP"..

if we limit the transfer (of anything) into 5 day a week, 4 hours a day (peak hour of certain server region, let say 6pm-12pm for southeast asia +7gmt server), this will make sure the attacker plan much better tactical assault, and much more engagement of true pvp wars.. not simply waiting the enemy to sleep..

having people from different time to play at your server is not-workable, cus its often very2 lag for them, only very small number of griefer that deep in passion for revenge, that willing to put up with such a lag, day in n out..

let make official pvp became real pvp again..

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That's how PvP is. You are going to get pushed around by the larger tribes. PvP is like a constant war and you can't predict when you will get attacked.

Try to gain the favor of other tribes and create alliances, join a more equipped tribe, or get really smart.

I recommend making a small metal base somewhere to store blueprints and important resources. Somewhere high and too steep for a Giga to climb would be ideal. Do you play on any other servers that seem safer? Look for one of those "political" servers that have fair alpha tribes. 

I have played PvP before and I never talked in chat so I could stay under the radar.

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On 7/23/2017 at 3:57 PM, BlueFox91 said:

That's how PvP is. You are going to get pushed around by the larger tribes. PvP is like a constant war and you can't predict when you will get attacked.

Try to gain the favor of other tribes and create alliances, join a more equipped tribe, or get really smart.

I recommend making a small metal base somewhere to store blueprints and important resources. Somewhere high and too steep for a Giga to climb would be ideal. Do you play on any other servers that seem safer? Look for one of those "political" servers that have fair alpha tribes. 

I have played PvP before and I never talked in chat so I could stay under the radar.

Yea that is PvP to an extent and how it use to be. But the fact servers are dead to hell and when you log you have to be lemming Worshipping the basement Dweller cause he is pumped up with cereal and monster drink and ready to NOT PVP and PVB- Player vs Base cause he is bored while you are offline and starting. (Example was posted here earlier) Its just killing the servers bro. 

 

They should wipe the servers. Too many Alpha tribes who utilized glitches or exploits in the game during early access and while some of those gliches were fixed I think all players new and old should start on the same level.

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I think the fundamental problem with the PvP design of ARK is that PvP is only really fun if both sides can win.

So far the only way to achieve that seems to be:

  • Have a ladder/tier system. (most games with some kind of persistency, like MMOs, WoT, Hearthstone)
  • Reset everyone on each encounter. (Most FPS games, MOBA's, RTS)

As neither of these is easy to do in ARK, the ARK PvP design is fundamentally flawed.

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I have often wondered why they dont have more server cluster types to cater the experience to the vastly different player base they have. To me it seems like a simple solution have clusters that contain one of each map all with alliances disabled then just have one cluster with tribes disabled, on with a tribe cap of 5 one with a cap of 10 and one with a cap of 20

this would allow people to tailor their experience and allow them to put themselves into a server with people who have a more similar play style to themselves.

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The very basis of this game not only encourages alpha tribes or mega tribes, it requires this.

This game is a real time all time game. You don't press pause as you go to sleep in PvP Official. That very fact right there is the reason single players and smaller tribes don't survive.

Alpha's and Mega's realized this a long long time ago and if you'll notice, almost every mega and the majority of alpha's have a variety of nationalities included within their tribe/alliance. Because they need around the clock coverage on the servers, not only for growth (which is very important as well) but for counter attacks, recon, watching out for griefers, etc...

That being said, Alpha's and Mega's have a mix and variety of other types of players as well. Take my tribe for example. We have a solid team of people who know how to PvP or who are up and coming in PvP, but we have PVE'ers as well, people who enjoy just farming, just breeding, just building, etc.... everyone supports everyone. PvP'ers provide protection to allow the others to do their job, as well as bring back enemy resources to further support them. Breeders, builders and farmers support the PvP'ers in their never ending fight. Everyone lives, everyone thrives.

THAT is why this is a team based environment. You can complain all you want about the timing of things and how "Woe is me, giga takes 2 weeks, nobody has time for that" blah blah blah. But the sad fact is, even if your giga took a day to raise, you still have to sleep sometime, and during that time, some hotshot with a compound is gonna sit outside your gates and make you weep the moment you sigh in in the morning and look at the logs. Same with building, gathering, any other breeding, etc...

The game doesn't wait for you, the world keeps going. Commit or get out.

 

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11 minutes ago, bulldog1986 said:

The very basis of this game not only encourages alpha tribes or mega tribes, it requires this.

This game is a real time all time game. You don't press pause as you go to sleep in PvP Official. That very fact right there is the reason single players and smaller tribes don't survive.

Alpha's and Mega's realized this a long long time ago and if you'll notice, almost every mega and the majority of alpha's have a variety of nationalities included within their tribe/alliance. Because they need around the clock coverage on the servers, not only for growth (which is very important as well) but for counter attacks, recon, watching out for griefers, etc...

That being said, Alpha's and Mega's have a mix and variety of other types of players as well. Take my tribe for example. We have a solid team of people who know how to PvP or who are up and coming in PvP, but we have PVE'ers as well, people who enjoy just farming, just breeding, just building, etc.... everyone supports everyone. PvP'ers provide protection to allow the others to do their job, as well as bring back enemy resources to further support them. Breeders, builders and farmers support the PvP'ers in their never ending fight. Everyone lives, everyone thrives.

THAT is why this is a team based environment. You can complain all you want about the timing of things and how "Woe is me, giga takes 2 weeks, nobody has time for that" blah blah blah. But the sad fact is, even if your giga took a day to raise, you still have to sleep sometime, and during that time, some hotshot with a compound is gonna sit outside your gates and make you weep the moment you sigh in in the morning and look at the logs. Same with building, gathering, any other breeding, etc...

The game doesn't wait for you, the world keeps going. Commit or get out.

 

Finally someone else gets it. I've been saying this forever and people just say "I shouldn't have to do this". They don't its called SP or PvE. But if you want to thrive on Official PvP this is what you must do. If only I could meet more players like this in game.

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On 21/07/2017 at 10:51 PM, Racna1305 said:

I have been on a servers Where the Alpha tribe has Wiped everyone of the server as then it just belongs to them but they have 20 or more Wyvers and 20 or more Golems, this is happening on allot of severs now. as soon as you log in and build they come wipe you out no server is safe, Its is getting to a point that I will be buying another Xbox one to build an safe Server with no Data Downloads. There should be Offical Servers where this is NO DATA DOWNLOADS, its been turned off. So tribes have a fighting chance.
As now ALPHA tribes, rule more than one server. they have several in tow.
I love the scortched earth server its great, but allowing Alpha Tribes to transfare Wyvers in 20 or more is dammaging the game, I play my own map more now than i ever did before because i get sick of Alpha tribes. with Wyverns and Golems. Limit the transfare rate too 1-3 per server so 1 Wyvern 2 golems or 3 Wyverns or just one Wyvern.
On there scortched earth server they can use as many as they wish But Alpha tribes purposely transfares there 20 plus wyverns to other servers to wipe every player of the server so they own another server is getting stupid, i play this game less and less now days.
Soon if things dont get any better it will be shelved..
and i hear this from 100plus people. there are forums from people saying that Alpha tribes are manipulating the game for them. and the little guy, cant build up to anything big now because of these people.
I mates Kids love Ark they just built up there base in Wood felt very proud, of what they learnd and build to find that they was being raided with a Wyvern the Alpha tribe said to them you cant build here its our server. They had just wood, not battlements nothing and laughing as the kids were upset, there first time on Ark is now there last they wont play it again.
It should not be like this, you come to play a game to have fun, with your friends a community make friends and talk trade etc. not build to only be wiped out as the server belongs to an Alapha tribe soon, the only players you have on Ark will be the Alphas as servers go stale.
No other people will buy the game as the Advertising they are hearing is players, that as be bullyed or wiped off the servers because it belongs to them.

 

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17 minutes ago, lvirusl said:

Finally someone else gets it. I've been saying this forever and people just say "I shouldn't have to do this". They don't its called SP or PvE. But if you want to thrive on Official PvP this is what you must do. If only I could meet more players like this in game.

Gets what? All I seen was a try hard comment condoning offline raiding as a legitimate form of skill.

Zero skill is required to perform an offline raid ZERO, it is nowhere in the remit of PvP and in all fairness is just a pure act of cowardice.  I don't care if the tribe being attacked has a 2x2 thatch hut, if you raid them why they're offline you have absolutely no credibility in the world of PvP and become the lowest form of scum in the Ark community.

What happened to the days, not even fully a year ago, where tribes would cement a time and place for a raid to go down, even in PvP, if somebody pissed us off to the point we wanted to wipe them we would make it known across the server, tell them to be on a certain time that is suitable for their players and when that time came we would raid them, albeit some would chicken out and not come online at the time but they was warned, and in those cases we wouldn't fully wipe them as it just seemed wrong, their resources and BP's would come home with us, but the vast part of their base and dinos would still be there in the morning.

Ark mentality has degraded to the bottom of the sea, people would rather wait till a server is at its lowest and then flood it with members and wipe everybody off whilst their asleep.  It has no morality or sense of victory against it... if anything you aren't only cheating the poor sods you just offlined out of all their hours of work, you're cheating yourself out of any form of respect or validation.

And no i'm not salty for being raided offline, I'm part of an alpha that is part of a much bigger mega, and despite that they know I wont make my tribe offline raid.

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9 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Gets what? All I seen was a try hard comment condoning offline raiding as a legitimate form of skill.

Zero skill is required to perform an offline raid ZERO, it is nowhere in the remit of PvP and in all fairness is just a pure act of cowardice.  I don't care if the tribe being attacked has a 2x2 thatch hut, if you raid them why they're offline you have absolutely no credibility in the world of PvP and become the lowest form of scum in the Ark community.

What happened to the days, not even fully a year ago, where tribes would cement a time and place for a raid to go down, even in PvP, if somebody pissed us off to the point we wanted to wipe them we would make it known across the server, tell them to be on a certain time that is suitable for their players and when that time came we would raid them, albeit some would chicken out and not come online at the time but they was warned, and in those cases we wouldn't fully wipe them as it just seemed wrong, their resources and BP's would come home with us, but the vast part of their base and dinos would still be there in the morning.

Ark mentality has degraded to the bottom of the sea, people would rather wait till a server is at its lowest and then flood it with members and wipe everybody off whilst their asleep.  It has no morality or sense of victory against it... if anything you aren't only cheating the poor sods you just offlined out of all their hours of work, you're cheating yourself out of any form of respect or validation.

And no i'm not salty for being raided offline, I'm part of an alpha that is part of a much bigger mega, and despite that they know I wont make my tribe offline raid.

Your Right there is no Skill in an oFFLINE RAID there is no Honor in it waiting for players to go offline to kill them, I remeber what you was saying about a meet date time Battle, its almost like theyw as the days when there was Honor on Ark now you have spinless people that will kill you while you lseep. No Skill in that. At all its nice to hear from another player that sees Honor in the same light.
In real life i will face my enermy Awake while he is awake, in honor look into this eyes. you have there respect and offer yours. But now its Honorless and cowerds..in Ark.

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I have been on many servers and everytime My tribe builds a base we are raided, it would be nice to have the option when we are offline  The Tribe cannot be raided, as i have been Offline raided now more than 20 times on multiple servers, Allot of tribes now wait till you are offline to raid you. Its a cowardly way to play but that way they its an easy raid.
I noticed on a mod for steam that there is an Offline antiraid Sheild that covers your base, then when you come online it turns off,  now i know people may manipulate that shield option and use it when there online to protect here base. So i suggest this, as soon as all the players in the tribe go offline the sheild activates when a member comes online the sheild turns off.
This will also help to promote teamwork, so players will work together properly and rogue players that plan to inside you, you know who they are. Also the players plan to log on at the same time will help to protect the base when its they are off line. This will work, as then the Coward tribes that have no Honor in Battle cant raid offline players.
And kill there tames.

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