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Changes to Pillar Structure Decay!


Jatheish

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On 6/14/2017 at 1:06 AM, Jat said:

Hey guys,

Lone Pillars that are connected to non-spawn blocking structures will be destroyed on Official Servers after 12 hours.Decay time is otherwise unaffected for all other types of structures. Our intent is for players who claim land to make use of the land, and not just hold it. We'll be monitoring this change to see whether it has an effect on pillar claiming and make changes as necessary. This change is only on our Official Servers, but Unofficial Servers will soon gain the functionality to make this change.

Thanks,

Jat

Great idea...until trolls spam foundations all over resources and around player bases. We already know you guys cannot moderate your servers properly and submitted tickets are all but completely ignored in most cases...I mean if you actually count the automated response. Pillars were PVE's Winchester Rifle keeping servers from turning completely into the wild west.

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here is a suggestion

afaik there is already a structure limit, aka how many structures can be connected 

make a query how many players have how extensive structures

get a good grip of players who own a ton of very small connected structures -- say like 1-7 building items

then ban those players.

or limit the amount of those structures per player/tribe

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A limit to structure count would be the most efficient way to combat this. Where a structure would be counted, regardless of size. So if a tribe chose to build 50 beautiful and grand bases, or one base and 49 pillars, it would be counted as equal. Would not fix the issue but would definitely keep things more manageable.

Also, I'm not sure why there is not a protection radius for rare resource spawns. There is a non-build protection radius for beacons. I think that this would be a welcome change/addition to protect community areas and resources.

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Welcome back to the era of massive foundation spamming and map-wide defoliation...

I still say that the obvious solution is a limited number of land claims per player, perhaps with additional claims for achievements.  Place something, flag or structure, get a radius or cube around that thing in which you can build. Don't allow land-claims to be placed overlapping other land claims.  Bigger tribes with more people get to place more individual or side-by-side claims for larger bases.  Foundation/pillar griefing is done away with, the need for foundation/pillar defensive perimeters and zones is done away with. A tribe that wants to protect resources can use one of its precious land claims to claim an area and protect it for resource harvesting.

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I seriously can't believe you've done this. What the raptor were u thinking? Obviusly u weren't thinking at all. U managed to ruin PVE, which imo you never even cared about, nowhere close to how much you do about 13y old's on pvp.

 

By far the best, and actualy the only place to farm metal on ragnarok has been filled with foundations and pillars with celings on top which acts like foundation.

 

No metal spawning here anymore

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No metal will respawn here once someone farms it

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or here

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or here

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or here

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entire place, all this pillar shaped rocks that are full of metal all around them have been spammed with foundations

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Ima throw my 2 cents in here

I'll treat this like an outsider looking in so we can see both parts to this...

First off understand why they did this. This is a temp fix to the Ragnarock pillar issue (where they have few servers but the first come first served bunch are already pillaring off almost the entire area and not letting new people in. So to fix this they made it where pillars will decay quickly so they aren't just player blocking to prevent new players to the server. Or being trolls.

Now for PvP it's not that big an issue, as if you wanted a spot of land you'd just tear down everything in your way. Or kill the trolls repeatedly till they stop. But it can still be a problem, as much like PvE players they can use them to deter players from building in dino spawn areas and resource nodes. 

The issue with this is in PvE is the same as with PvP but in a bit of a worse way. Since you can't hurt players or their structures/tames a player can very easily grief a server by blocking dino and resorce spawns. New players will also do this in attempts to find land to call their own, and a few completely new to the game may just not know how bases effect spawning in this game. But the main issue will be the trolls as they can't be hurt and their structures can't  be destroyed. So there will be nothing stopping them from pillaring off everywhere they can find.

 

Because of these reasons I feel this idea is more harmful then good... Sure if your on the game every 11 or less hours it's not an issue... But I, like many others here, have a job and life (we all have one or the other if not both) and can't dedicate that kind of time to the game.  The intentions behind it are good and are ment to help The new players out. I myself at one time would have seen thisbas excellent news because of the scarcity of land on old servers. But now that i know how difficult it is to keep resource and dino spawns safe, I find this plan rather poorly thought out and more of a quick and easy fix to a long term problem, and will most likely lead into new issues.

I'm not saying that the idea is bad, as it would make it easier for new players to be able to play on servers that are already populated. But it opens the flood gates for trolls to do what they do best.

 

I feel a better solution to this would be to first make large and rare resorce areas non-build zones (though I believe that is already in place in some areas).

Second is to extend (if not revert) the decay timer for pillars (24 hour timer seems more fair then 12 hours on account that not everyone can play the game every day let alone every 12 or less hours...) as I can see new players would want this to stay so they can find places to build having a short decay would benefit them, but would also help trolls.

And third is to shorten the radius of the no respawn area for foundation, this way at least there won't be as much destruction to resorce areas. As well as increase the area for non building areas foundations (aka players builfing inside or to close to a base.

An alternate for help players keep others out of their bases would be to make some kind of area claiming system/item so you can keep a specific area safe from people building in it. .ore for base protection then area claiming. Though no idea how this could or should work.

 

 

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Ok but a lot of the players use them to keep metal spawns crystal spawns obsidian pearl oil safe from new players who see something shiny and build on it then they are gone. So with doing this are you going to fix the spawn area where they can be built in them or around them with in so many feet or something? Cause this will cause big issues on pve. We will have no resources period to gather cause of new people mainly people that want to cause problems or issues building there just to piss the server off. So what the plans for this issue? That is what the pillars are used for mostly. I mean yeah nice to keep players building right against your base cause a lot just build destroy your area and then vanish you have to wait forever for it to be destroyed or what ever. 

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Easy Fix for this is to add the can not spawn gate for dropping any kind of pillar/foundation next to a node metal, obsidian node within particular range.  Make all new tribes/players have a limit to amount of structures they can build on new servers within a period of days, say 200 structure limit first 30 days.  100 more structures next 100 days.  These numbers are arbitrary they should pick a structure cap that makes sense and wont allow 20 ppl to pillar in an entire ragnarok server...

 

That should stop the trolls and pillar spam, while also allowing ppl to protect their stuff...

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to be honest, I have no time to read 18 pages of post, so maybe what I am just posting has already been written ...

We (the tribes I play with) do pillars for two main reason, to protect metal spawn, and to make sure a griefers does not block access from our bases to our hunting grounds.

Have developers made a restriction to build near resources spawn, like metal, crystal and obsidian, we do not have to pillar large portions of the map to protect resources, these are open areas that a few tribes take some effort to keep pillared and opened for the benefit of all tribes on the server.

Right now, the change is great for griefers because they they can put either dino gates, foundations and all kind of structure to block these valuable spawns.

The second overlooked problem is that servers are overcrowded ... we have tons of new players that buy the game and have no place to settle. It was no a surprise the newer ragnarok server were pillared in a matter of minutes. By the time I was able to finish to download the update, I couldn't find a single server to join (all were capped) and when I finally could, all areas were already pillared.

Once thing (the only, in fact) I liked about private servers is the lack of pillars.... it could be great WildCard allow a new hybrid mode of Private Sevres, some kind of Private-Official serves where a tribe (or group of tribes) pay for access to this server and only the account holder selects which people is allowed to play on these servers. WC will make sure the server is Official complaint and there would not be a local admin. Only setting the owner of the server can set is the white list of allowed players that can join by their STEAM ID. 

I do not know what other idea you can have to deal with this issue, but it is highly annoying to loss beaver ponds and metal spawn because this poorly implemented solution.

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This was obviously a knee jerk, hasty choice ... it did not work the last time they tried it ... why would it work now? 

The better choice would have been to make enough new Ragnarok servers to accommodate the player base. It is a new map, you KNOW everyone is going to go try it out. 

Look at it like this, in total there are 12 new PVE (NA, OC, EU and isolated combined) Ragnarok servers ... to accommodate roughly 180 PVE (NA, OC, EU and isolated combined) Ragnarok servers ... not including new players who bought the game because of what they saw at E3 and because of the near constant sales.

There is your problem. Why not fix THAT issue? @Jat

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Maybe what they should do is make pillars placed within a certain distance to metal/crystal/obsidian spawns have the usual timer. Make only those in open areas subject to the 12 hour timer. That way tribes trying to contribute to the community by preserving resources can do so, but tribes can't pillar off enormous areas with impunity. I know that we have the metal resources in our area of the redwoods on Ragnarok14 pillared so everyone can use the metal resources.

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean that any pillars not snapped to foundations will have 12 hour timers?

If so, this is cause for great alarm. We play on multiple servers and have been able to build over rough terrain with pillars where foundations cannot be placed. It is unlikely that we will be able to visit every structure every 11 hours to keep our timers up.

In addition, we have a water base with pillars over some oil spawns, but the oil is still accessible. Please don't clear structures around ALL resource nodes. We will lose a lot of work!

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1 hour ago, StrangerDanger42 said:

Easy Fix for this is to add the can not spawn gate for dropping any kind of pillar/foundation next to a node metal, obsidian node within particular range.  Make all new tribes/players have a limit to amount of structures they can build on new servers within a period of days, say 200 structure limit first 30 days.  100 more structures next 100 days.  These numbers are arbitrary they should pick a structure cap that makes sense and wont allow 20 ppl to pillar in an entire ragnarok server...

 

That should stop the trolls and pillar spam, while also allowing ppl to protect their stuff...

 
I think the same
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11 minutes ago, Pilate72 said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean that any pillars not snapped to foundations will have 12 hour timers?

If so, this is cause for great alarm. We play on multiple servers and have been able to build over rough terrain with pillars where foundations cannot be placed. It is unlikely that we will be able to visit every structure every 11 hours to keep our timers up.

In addition, we have a water base with pillars over some oil spawns, but the oil is still accessible. Please don't clear structures around ALL resource nodes. We will lose a lot of work!

If more players were considerate and made sure not to block critical resources, made sure to provide exits in case someone spawns within your walls, and made sure there is easy pathway around the base ... things would not be so bad. It also does not help that trolls and griefers are abundant. 

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21 minutes ago, methylphenidathydrochlorid said:

Waiting for your mod, if its easy should be done tomorrow morning...

Lol I say easy conceptually because if the "is gateway or player foundation" trigger is a flag for an object then obviously all they would have to do is add that flag to the nodes of specific types such as obsidian/metal etc .  I imagine the change would actually be more complex than that as they usually are especially in a game such as this :P

I would expect a proof of concept as quickly as tomorrow morning if I were someone that was intimate with the code.  However given that there is probably a ton of technical debt to absorb before attempting to write a mod such as the above I would not hold my breath for me writing something such as this :)

 

 

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3 minutes ago, StrangerDanger42 said:

Lol I say easy conceptually because if the "is gateway or player foundation" trigger is a flag for an object then obviously all they would have to do is add that flag to the nodes of specific types such as obsidian/metal etc .  I imagine the change would actually be more complex than that as they usually are especially in a game such as this :P

I would expect a proof of concept as quickly as tomorrow morning if I were someone that was intimate with the code.  However given that there is probably a ton of technical debt to absorb before attempting to write a mod such as the above I would not hold my breath for me writing something such as this :)

 

 

In your original post you never stated that you meant its easy from a conceptual point.
I see your answer as stepping back from the "easy" and instead meaning

"there is a solution that came to my mind, its just a vague idea and i have no idea if it will be easy or even realistic to implement that into the game"

kk thx bye

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3 minutes ago, StrangerDanger42 said:

Lol I say easy conceptually because if the "is gateway or player foundation" trigger is a flag for an object then obviously all they would have to do is add that flag to the nodes of specific types such as obsidian/metal etc .  I imagine the change would actually be more complex than that as they usually are especially in a game such as this :P

I would expect a proof of concept as quickly as tomorrow morning if I were someone that was intimate with the code.  However given that there is probably a ton of technical debt to absorb before attempting to write a mod such as the above I would not hold my breath for me writing something such as this :)

 

 

Don't let his passive-aggressiveness get to you. I've generally regarded his cynical responses as not worthy of much attention or effort.

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2 minutes ago, methylphenidathydrochlorid said:

In your original post you never stated that you meant its easy from a conceptual point.
I see your answer as stepping back from the "easy" and instead meaning

"there is a solution that came to my mind, its just a vague idea and i have no idea if it will be easy or even realistic to implement that into the ame"

kk thx bye

Easy probably was not the best word as I have not seen the code base, but to say a change such as that would be unrealistic is a bit of a stretch....

 

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