Changes to Pillar Structure Decay!

[cfrostyscriv]

This change only affects single pillars not connected to a structure, all buildings and pillar decoration should be unaffected by this.

[Rancor]

4 hours ago, X111 said:

so that means there's going to be pillars with ceilings everywhere now?

or do you have to use fence foundations? and isn't just placing a stone fence foundation easier?

 

Fence foundations do not stop players from building next to them. 

[Darkintellect]

1 minute ago, cfrostyscriv said:

This change only affects single pillars not connected to a structure, all buildings and pillar decoration should be unaffected by this.

It affected double and triple pillars etc. The minimal functional combination that isn't effected is fence foundation with a pillar attached which allows you to get a double pillar decay but with the low profile like with a single pillar.

[Darkintellect]

Just now, Rancor said:

Fence foundations do not stop players from building next to them. 

Fence foundation + 1x pillar is what he probably means. That is officially unaffected by the decay change.

[Wodlez]

7 hours ago, Darkintellect said:

@Jat @Jen I know you guys have been dealing with the issue of Pillars on PVE servers for quite a while now. Unfortunately it is a serious issue with no real clear fix. However, you guys seem to bounce back and forth from the pillars hurting spawns to pillars not hurting spawns result.

 

I've thought over the issue for the last year now and honestly, the best result I found was this.

 

You give each player -- connected to their steam account ID -- 1, 2 or 3 radials of control (Number of them and their range is arbitrary here and based on your balance). What this means is the player places the area of control on the ground like an anchor foundation. That then gives that player a max range from that center to build with no limitations on Z scale (Where the standard height limitation continues). Giving them these limitations would prevent 2-3 players from pillaring the entire map. Size could be 2 or 3 times the size of the field in which another player structure prevents your building. The point is, it would be absolutely massive but would still prevent a player from dotting the map and would introduce a new challenge in the game of deciding how to use their areas to build.

Now, I was that player who built the entire bridge network across the Center on Official 597. This would destroy all the work I did so I have the most to lose. However, I would gladly sacrifice that work (since it's just a game anyway) if it meant this fix to a long running issue on PVE official.

 

As for the mechanics of the anchor point, If they were to say move the radial of control or remove it entirely, anything now outside of that range would encounter decay timer that can't be refreshed. How this would work is a reversed design with how radial restrictions apply when building near another player's foundation or pillar.

 

Again, you guys do great work but sometimes these solutions are treated more in the binary sense when there needs to be a sense of thinking outside the box. (No pun intended).

 

Thanks again,

Brian

So you stop tribes from building different bases across the map? Still hasn't fixed the problem really, also what happens when you get a friends to join the game or make multiple steam accounts so you can let them claim areas for the tribe and still cover the map? 

[BeardO]

4 minutes ago, Darkintellect said:

I'm not sure you know the disparity between the levels of rage. You'll see a massive player base leave the game and slam the review on steam far worse than the great Melee nerf and again with the flyer nerf a year later.

For the purpose of the game, that's just not an option. Now, they are preparing for a huge outcry when they end up shutting down low population servers with 1-5 people during peak hours. If they are struggling to rationalize that and preparing for the uproar, I'm sure doing it to healthy servers and half the population is a suicide event.

So all the negative reviews that say "Servers are wastelands of pillars griefing players" is some how easier to ignore than ones that say "Made me move because they implemented admins to server to stop griefers"?

I think you are assuming that a "massive" player base would leave the game.  There are so many players that don't even play on official servers that this wouldn't even effect.  Flyer and melee nerf effect everyone. 

According to Arkservers.net there are a little over 800 Official servers.  Lets assume everyone is full of player constantly and you shut down half...you are only affecting 28,000 players.  I'd suspect that at least half of those players are the one complaining about the pillar issues.  So now you only have 14,000 that would be pissed but no way to know whether they would stop playing...my guess is most wouldn't.

[Darkintellect]

Just now, Wodlez said:

So you stop tribes from building different bases across the map? Still hasn't fixed the problem really, also what happens when you get a friends to join the game or make multiple steam accounts so you can let them claim areas for the tribe and still cover the map? 

No, they still can build but it fixes the issue of having scattered pillars all over the place. When friends join a tribe it increases the influence you have as it should do but at a quantified ratio.

As for multiple steam accounts, it will only apply to players who purchased multiple issues of the game and even with that, having a second account still wont give you enough range to cover a ton of area in pillars. 

[Darkintellect]

5 minutes ago, BeardO said:

So all the negative reviews that say "Servers are wastelands of pillars griefing players" is some how easier to ignore than ones that say "Made me move because they implemented admins to server to stop griefers"?

I think you are assuming that a "massive" player base would leave the game.  There are so many players that don't even play on official servers that this wouldn't even effect.  Flyer and melee nerf effect everyone. 

According to Arkservers.net there are a little over 800 Official servers.  Lets assume everyone is full of player constantly and you shut down half...you are only affecting 28,000 players.  I'd suspect that at least half of those players are the one complaining about the pillar issues.  So now you only have 14,000 that would be pissed but no way to know whether they would stop playing...my guess is most wouldn't.

It's already been stated to prevent the horrendous PR issue of losing 30-35% of your official playerbase. They'll move on to other games and you need that percentage for a good sales rate on the two new expansions planned.

Keep in mind, they said they will ONLY shut down servers with extremely low populations at peak hours when the game goes live. It shows they're aware of the horrible effect a mass egress would create.

[Wodlez]

7 minutes ago, Darkintellect said:

No, they still can build but it fixes the issue of having scattered pillars all over the place. When friends join a tribe it increases the influence you have as it should do but at a quantified ratio.

As for multiple steam accounts, it will only apply to players who purchased multiple issues of the game and even with that, having a second account still wont give you enough range to cover a ton of area in pillars. 

Ahh I get you, I thought you mean someone has to place a certain block which once placed it makes a no build zone but only for you/ your tribe and you only get one, it's not a bad idea you're saying. I forgot about buying the game, I don't play Xbox so though you buy like a disk or something for pc and you can just run it from different accounts

[Darkintellect]

6 minutes ago, Wodlez said:

Ahh I get you, I thought you mean someone has to place a certain block which once placed it makes a no build zone but only for you/ your tribe and you only get one, it's not a bad idea you're saying. I forgot about buying the game, I don't play Xbox so though you buy like a disk or something for pc and you can just run it from different accounts

No, your steam ID is attributed to the game. And more specifically, each player you create as the steam ID is the same for each character you make.

The idea is to allow players to continue with their bases since the field is large enough depending on how the developers size it and how many there are. What I want is players to build their bases and if they want to expand to a much larger area, create a tribe with another or more players to add their Anchors to the tribe.

 

It targets the mass of pillars from covering the map. However the only issue is resource spawns, however, with the opening of more places to build, players are less likely to build on them. Even less so if they also create a signature for the metal/crystal/oil/obsidian nodes in the dev kit in which they emit a no build radius for each node much like with a pillar and foundation, but reduce the range to 25-35% of that range.

 

That in turn fixes the issue with maps covered in pillars and solves the resource issue. I detailed that change specifically because currently the other way that's done in making a no build radius at resource spawns is to have the map developer do it. That's likely not to happen from the 3 who do Ragnorok and the 1 who does TheCenter.

[BeardO]

3 minutes ago, Darkintellect said:

It's already been stated to prevent the horrendous PR issue of losing 30-35% of your official playerbase. They'll move on to other games and you need that percentage for a good sales rate on the two new expansions planned.

Keep in mind, they said they will ONLY shut down servers with extremely low populations at peak hours when the game goes live. It shows they're aware of the horrible effect a mass egress would create.

Who stated that?  Where did they get their numbers?  How do they figure 30-35% of the official playerbase will leave?  I don't see a mass egress of players.  Some would quite, probably the majority of the ones griefing because they would lose their advantage. 

How many people do you think have already left Official servers to find an unofficial that had an active admin?  How many of those people do you think would go back to official if they had active admins that the players knew they could trust?

[Darkintellect]

With regard to "Keep in mind, they said they will ONLY shut down servers with extremely low populations at peak hours when the game goes live. It shows they're aware of the horrible effect a mass egress would create."

 

It was mentioned by the devs, not sure if it was official forums or reddit but the rumor spread like wildfire. Tracking down the source will take me a bit but I'll get it here as quickly as I can.

[Zadira]

A lot of these comments are based on a fact that people have to protect resources.  Ragnarok did a great job at providing so many resource nodes and resource areas that it would be almost impossible for people to cover them all up. Maybe The Island could have a once over and more resource areas could be added in. 

[Darkintellect]

4 minutes ago, Zadira said:

A lot of these comments are based on a fact that people have to protect resources.  Ragnarok did a great job at providing so many resource nodes and resource areas that it would be almost impossible for people to cover them all up. Maybe The Island could have a once over and more resource areas could be added in. 

From a manpower standpoint, the time and effort to do that is fairly high. Realistically speaking, it would be easier and require less money and manpower to attach a no build signature to specialty resource nodes. Have the radius reduced to 25-35% of that of pillars and foundations. Tag an environment operator to them so you can either turn the ability on and off, set default to off and assign it as "on" with official PVE servers.

 

This is also far, far easier than methodically creating a no build region around every single resource node via map creation.

[Lucifina]

1 minute ago, Zadira said:

A lot of these comments are based on a fact that people have to protect resources.  Ragnarok did a great job at providing so many resource nodes and resource areas that it would be almost impossible for people to cover them all up. Maybe The Island could have a once over and more resource areas could be added in. 

From the posts I've seen about the new Ragnarok maps there were pillars everywhere halfway through the first day LoL not protecting resources (although this does happen) its just people being grievers and wanting to control something.

[Demerus]

Can someone please tell me how to block chinese tribes and noobs and griefers from building over top of all the beaver spawns + important metal spawns? My PVE server has had many issues with idiots building on and around these areas and I have had to take action to pillar these areas to allow all the players on the server access without fear of anyone ruining them. There are only 5 remaining beavers spawns on the official server I play on and is being overrun by chinese tribes. The metal nodes are now even more precious than ever since the volcano is no longer an option to farm metal.

 

[Zadira]

Yes, after playing for two years I know you are correct Lucifina. It is used as an excuse for people to think of themselves as all powerful rulers of the servers. It is a bunch of hogwash!! 

On Ragnarok, they can't use this excuse though. 

All of our concerns and problems go back to how the game mechanics work. Wildcard just needs to figure out how to get the game mechanics to work the best way to help the most people.  These pillaring and thatch problems have been around from day one. I sure hope they figure this out before August 8th.

[Kurbbie]

Nothing is this game is tested before they roll it out.

C4 on no tame xbox is still bugged.

Riot gear is lv 98, when it use to be 80.

Clubs make you have no incentive to wear anything aside from hide.

The toilet made defending bases easy, just keep pooping while they drain and fill up the x plants as they drain them.

All in all you guys are going to lose players not gain them. Im already planning on leaving since you guys broke pvp so badly it costs double to triple the amount to raid.

[Lucifina]

1 minute ago, Zadira said:

Yes, after playing for two years I know you are correct Lucifina. It is used as an excuse for people to think of themselves as all powerful rulers of the servers. It is a bunch of hogwash!! 

On Ragnarok, they can't use this excuse though. 

All of our concerns and problems go back to how the game mechanics work. Wildcard just needs to figure out how to get the game mechanics to work the best way to help the most people.  These pillaring and thatch problems have been around from day one. I sure hope they figure this out before August 8th.

I see a lot of good ideas from a lot of the members here not sure why Wildcard doesn't just say we need suggestions on how to fix this issue and see what the smart people here can come up with. Knee jerk reactions seldom fix things instead they usually cause bigger issues... August 8th will be here in a blink I hope everything is fixed but having been with this for a year and a half i'm worried.

[winodv]

Finally, What about the foundations (players who use foundations instead of pillars) that are no connected to any structure?

[Darkintellect]

1 minute ago, winodv said:

Finally, What about the foundations (players who use foundations instead of pillars) that are no connected to any structure?

People will just use foundations with a fence foundation attached. 

[winodv]

I guess the only fix is for players to stop doing it. Players will always find ways ........

[Darkintellect]

2 minutes ago, winodv said:

I guess the only fix is for players to stop doing it. Players will always find ways ........

Which is why my method is the best possible solution I could think of. I've thought about hundreds of different variations over 8-9 months in how to change the system and what I wrote on page 2 is honestly the only thing that worked through without drawing on capital or effort to any serious degree.

[Wodlez]

42 minutes ago, Darkintellect said:

No, your steam ID is attributed to the game. And more specifically, each player you create as the steam ID is the same for each character you make.

The idea is to allow players to continue with their bases since the field is large enough depending on how the developers size it and how many there are. What I want is players to build their bases and if they want to expand to a much larger area, create a tribe with another or more players to add their Anchors to the tribe.

 

It targets the mass of pillars from covering the map. However the only issue is resource spawns, however, with the opening of more places to build, players are less likely to build on them. Even less so if they also create a signature for the metal/crystal/oil/obsidian nodes in the dev kit in which they emit a no build radius for each node much like with a pillar and foundation, but reduce the range to 25-35% of that range.

 

That in turn fixes the issue with maps covered in pillars and solves the resource issue. I detailed that change specifically because currently the other way that's done in making a no build radius at resource spawns is to have the map developer do it. That's likely not to happen from the 3 who do Ragnorok and the 1 who does TheCenter.

Hmm about the radius idea, what about of they said you're allowed a decent size base, maybe like 50x 50 for example but limited to 1 per biome, can't complain about the building situation then as you can go to multiple places and you won't get people mass pillaring (I've never had a problem with mass pillars on Xbox)

[Darkintellect]

4 minutes ago, Wodlez said:

Hmm about the radius idea, what about of they said you're allowed a decent size base, maybe like 50x 50 for example but limited to 1 per biome, can't complain about the building situation then as you can go to multiple places and you won't get people mass pillaring (I've never had a problem with mass pillars on Xbox)

Because that's effectively more difficult to code in as it's not a current mechanic. My offering anchors to players is essentially the same thing as you described but allows you to pick up and place in different areas without a limitation (However, if you did, any structure no longer in that anchor radial will start the decay countdown.) Let's say you get 3 anchors which are a 50 foundation radius, that would allow you to build a base but also gives the option to build one in the same biome with all three using up your full amount.

 

Now the number is arbitrary but my design is essentially the same as yours but with more custom options for the player in the dynamic while utilizing an already set mechanic within the game.