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Morals, ethics and whatnot of using the Water Breeding Glitch


McCluskeyy

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2 minutes ago, MTek9 said:

I like the float exploit. It adds an unintended and pretty useful mechanic to breeding. I play this game a lot because I love it, and a lot of the time real life just doesn't allow you to be on four days on end to raise something like a giga they way you feel you deserve. It gives us a rewarding break. That's what I think.

Agreed.. the imprints are enough to tire us out.

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16 minutes ago, McCluskeyy said:

I play primitive so the fridges are not an option.

 

5 minutes ago, MTek9 said:

I like the float exploit. It adds an unintended and pretty useful mechanic to breeding. I play this game a lot because I love it, and a lot of the time real life just doesn't allow you to be on four days on end to raise something like a giga they way you feel you deserve. It gives us a rewarding break. That's what I think.

Still doesn't detract from the point it's an exploit. Nuff said. 

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28 minutes ago, McCluskeyy said:

Yes its an exploit but it works out better.

Having super fast birds wasn't even an exploit but people managed to reason devs to nerf them. I expect the same to be done about this EXPLOIT.

And having a super fast bird worked better. Having a faster Quetz that could haul ass was working out much much better. 

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1 hour ago, YUSHOETMI said:

 

You two really are hilarious. 

For one, people who where caught duping gave the whole "the games too grindy so we used it to make it easier" argument. Sound familiar?

Implying? A lot of similar arguments can be used to justify really different actions. Means nothing.

1 hour ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Secondly, it isn't a glitch because I say so, it's a glitch because it simply is. Look up the thread in bugs and reports for the pc, Jat clearly states and I quote (loosely) "water breeding is an issue, one we will work out eventually just not now, we have more pressing concerns) or something to that affect. So yeah it is not an intended mechanic, it was not meant to be abused as it is and is therefore above all else and unarguably a glitch. Read up on this thread too, another post from Jat on twitter, stating they know the water breeding glitch is an issue and will eventually get around too it.  

Also ive stated theri's need a nerf in another thread, better than a rex? They're better than a giga! Awesome animals but yeah they need a small nerf. It isn't an exploit tho meat eventually decays and there isn't all that much you can eat, I'd say excessive meat collection compared to making the breeding stage stupidly easier is a whole different ball game. 

Also it's YUSHOETMI not yusho, get it right ¬¬

Ok Yu, still nothing changes, it's a game mechanic the devs themselves abuse. Can't be that wrong. Also, you say meat eventually decays and there isn't all that much you can eat, therefore if I water breed a rex and then it dies right as it reaches adult in a boss fight, it is suddenly ok? After all it died soon and I didn't use it for that much time. Also using a Theri makes breeding stage stupidly easier too. Not as much, but you spend half the time gathering meat. #BanAllTheriMeatFarmers 

Yushoe your arguments are getting worse and worse. At this point I'm convinced you're a troll. And I bet at least at some point you water bred.

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21 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

 

Still doesn't detract from the point it's an exploit. Nuff said. 

It's an exploit that everyone can use though. No one person is at an advantage over someone else because of it. 

Elder scrolls online had something called animation cancelling occur when a weapon attack were used half way through an ability attack. It was an exploit that was unintended, but was adopted into the game because it added a mechanic that everyone could use, but took skill to do successfully. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, MTek9 said:

Elder scrolls online had something called animation cancelling occur when a weapon attack were used half way through an ability attack. It was an exploit that was unintended, but was adopted into the game because it added a mechanic that everyone could use, but took skill to do successfully. 

4

Let's not forget wave dashing in super smash brothers Melee, it became a thing then and the devs eventually made it a thing again in smash 4. or all the other little bugs in games that later became features

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38 minutes ago, McCluskeyy said:

Yes its an exploit but it works out better.

Yet an exploit is a form of cheating, working out better isn't relevant. 

 

11 minutes ago, Lumitesi said:

Implying? A lot of similar arguments can be used to justify really different actions. Means nothing.

Ok Yu, still nothing changes, it's a game mechanic the devs themselves abuse. Can't be that wrong. Also, you say meat eventually decays and there isn't all that much you can eat, therefore if I water breed a rex and then it dies right as it reaches adult in a boss fight, it is suddenly ok? After all it died soon and I didn't use it for that much time. Also using a Theri makes breeding stage stupidly easier too. Not as much, but you spend half the time gathering meat. #BanAllTheriMeatFarmers 

Yushoe your arguments are getting worse and worse. At this point I'm convinced you're a troll. And I bet at least at some point you water bred.

No it's still not okay because it is an EXPLOIT, read the syllables or letters individually if that helps. And nope never water bred, which I could easily do seeing as my base is primarily on herb island but instead I have a large land based breeding pen I have and always will use. I mean I play pvp so this would benefit me more, but I still chose not to use it as it's an exploit.  Also I get called a troll a fair bit, mostly because I argue against people who use stupid tactics like this or claim the flyer nerf wasn't needed, but because I go against their views and hold a logical argument they shout "troll" in the hopes it will justify their obvious inability to play a game proper. So yeah if that's your definition of a troll slap it on me. 

Also I only have one argument, which really isn't an argument so much as it's a fact. It's an exploit :)

 

13 minutes ago, MTek9 said:

It's an exploit that everyone can use though. No one person is at an advantage over someone else because of it. 

Elder scrolls online had something called animation cancelling occur when a weapon attack were used half way through an ability attack. It was an exploit that was unintended, but was adopted into the game because it added a mechanic that everyone could use, but took skill to do successfully. 

 

 

Not everybody can use it as stated earlier you have to find a location to do it, once they're taken up then anybody else without a decent location to do it doesn't have that option. Still even if everybody could do it it wouldn't make it any less of an exploit. 

 

9 minutes ago, Zederia said:

Let's not forget wave dashing in super smash brothers Melee, it became a thing then and the devs eventually made it a thing again in smash 4. or all the other little bugs in games that later became features

Still hasn't grasped the concept of the devs stating it's an exploit and will be patched out in the future. Don't worry buddy it will sink in soon. 

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Everybody can use it so let's not over exaggerate things here.

If you can't build a defended structure off shore to water breed, you're not at that level of breeding yet anyway. Floating harms no one and like it or not the option to float is there for everyone. 

 

Not to mention, its not as godly as you're making it seem. Since the animals eat less, they stay at a really low hp value and can be killed by enemies with only a few attacks.

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I will laugh at all these people defending this exploit when they do eventually patch it. All the salt will go well on my popcorn.

No one will ever be able to change my mind on this. It's an exploit that even the DEVS have stated will be fixed...you people trying to defend it and say it's something the devs want are laughably silly. It WILL be fixed, so all you people trying to defend it are wasting your breath. It will get fixed. Sink that into your minds so that maybe you can start prepping on playing the game without exploits to help you.

Granted, I don't liek the grind anymore than you do. It's why I play on an unofficial with slightly boosted rates to better suit my work life. I do hope that officials will get a boost in their breeding times (and taming times...or everything really). Maybe then people will stop using the 'grind' as an excuse to cheat.

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Also, exploits are not glitches. You're not warping the laws of the program in anyway. You're simply whipping an animal into water and the program itself does the rest. 

It's like why I book thursday friday off rather than Friday and Monday. Because of tax brackets, I make just as much working 3 days as I do 4. I'm exploiting that, but it's not breaking any law.

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2 hours ago, Ulta said:

I will laugh at all these people defending this exploit when they do eventually patch it. All the salt will go well on my popcorn.

No one will ever be able to change my mind on this. It's an exploit that even the DEVS have stated will be fixed...you people trying to defend it and say it's something the devs want are laughably silly. It WILL be fixed, so all you people trying to defend it are wasting your breath. It will get fixed. Sink that into your minds so that maybe you can start prepping on playing the game without exploits to help you.

Granted, I don't liek the grind anymore than you do. It's why I play on an unofficial with slightly boosted rates to better suit my work life. I do hope that officials will get a boost in their breeding times (and taming times...or everything really). Maybe then people will stop using the 'grind' as an excuse to cheat.

But this is just it. No one is really defending water breeding. I don't think anyone even likes it because it's clearly less practical than regular breeding. What people are saying is that this is a necessary evil due to both the ridiculous rates on official and the food bugs. And given the fact the devs use them too, they probably think the same way. But they haven't reached the point that the breeding system overhaul is coming. Does it make it cheating? I don't know. Seems right now, water breeding is the norm, seems to be THE way to breed. Therefore it's not cheating. It is also fair and accessible to everyone, and works like a bandaid to a poor system. 

 

2 hours ago, YUSHOETMI said:

No it's still not okay because it is an EXPLOIT, read the syllables or letters individually if that helps. And nope never water bred, which I could easily do seeing as my base is primarily on herb island but instead I have a large land based breeding pen I have and always will use. I mean I play pvp so this would benefit me more, but I still chose not to use it as it's an exploit.  Also I get called a troll a fair bit, mostly because I argue against people who use stupid tactics like this or claim the flyer nerf wasn't needed, but because I go against their views and hold a logical argument they shout "troll" in the hopes it will justify their obvious inability to play a game proper. So yeah if that's your definition of a troll slap it on me. 

Once again, your only argument isn't fact Yus. Clever use of game mechanics=/=exploit. 

I'll give you an example you can maybe wrap your thick head around. When the first raid on the Division came out there was a bug that allowed you to get out of the map and easily destroy the main objective without dealing with everything else, effectively bypassing all difficulty and mechanics on the encounter. this is an exploit.

In this case, Stasis on land dinos floating was here long before babies were, and it's here for a reason, otherwise they would just turn it off. It's a game mechanic. All people are doing is moving their babies to the water to take advantage of said mechanic. They don't bypass anything. They still have to feed, imprint and keep the babies safe. Just makes it easier. See the difference Yushoet? If the mechanic was never meant to be used like this, yes I guess you can say people are abusing it. But not exploiting.

And I call you a troll because whenever a "tougher" argument is thrown at you you just deflect/change the subject and spew more bile. Also it isn't a stupid tactic. It's the way to play. What's stupid is not using it (that part is ok, it's your choice and no one's going to blame you) and then coming to the forums whining about how it is wrong and gives an unfair advantage when you could just take that fork out of your self righteous butt and do it too.

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1 hour ago, Lumitesi said:

But this is just it. No one is really defending water breeding. I don't think anyone even likes it because it's clearly less practical than regular breeding. What people are saying is that this is a necessary evil due to both the ridiculous rates on official and the food bugs. And given the fact the devs use them too, they probably think the same way. But they haven't reached the point that the breeding system overhaul is coming. Does it make it cheating? I don't know. Seems right now, water breeding is the norm, seems to be THE way to breed. Therefore it's not cheating. It is also fair and accessible to everyone, and works like a bandaid to a poor system. 

 

Once again, your only argument isn't fact Yus. Clever use of game mechanics=/=exploit. 

I'll give you an example you can maybe wrap your thick head around. When the first raid on the Division came out there was a bug that allowed you to get out of the map and easily destroy the main objective without dealing with everything else, effectively bypassing all difficulty and mechanics on the encounter. this is an exploit.

In this case, Stasis on land dinos floating was here long before babies were, and it's here for a reason, otherwise they would just turn it off. It's a game mechanic. All people are doing is moving their babies to the water to take advantage of said mechanic. They don't bypass anything. They still have to feed, imprint and keep the babies safe. Just makes it easier. See the difference Yushoet? If the mechanic was never meant to be used like this, yes I guess you can say people are abusing it. But not exploiting.

And I call you a troll because whenever a "tougher" argument is thrown at you you just deflect/change the subject and spew more bile. Also it isn't a stupid tactic. It's the way to play. What's stupid is not using it (that part is ok, it's your choice and no one's going to blame you) and then coming to the forums whining about how it is wrong and gives an unfair advantage when you could just take that fork out of your self righteous butt and do it too.

Tougher argument? There is no argument that can disprove the fact that's an exploit. Nothing you can say will change that, and considering the devs have claimed it to be an exploit themselves wether they use it or not, which I assume would be for testing purposes, makes arguing against it not only futile but idiotic. 

You keep throwing the stasis argument around, that it's okay to exploit it because it's in the game. It's simple to explain why it's in the game but considering you called me thick I'll just say "duuuhhhh" instead and let you try to figure it out. Tip: it has nothing to do with breeding. 

Exploiting a mechanic that's otherwise intended for something else doesn't make it anymore reasonable to do, exploiting something to make your gaming life easier also doesn't make it the correct thing to do. I understand the food bug is a pain but prior to it dropping into the game nobody even knew the water breeding exploit was a thing, that in itself signifies that it is only used to make life easier. It's clever I'll grant you that but still wrong. 

Lets just say me and you are on a pvp server, we are on opposite tribes in a war, you do the breeding for your tribe and i do it for mine. I decide to raise 3 gigas in one go, I would need to do roughly 3-4 meat runs a day, more at baby stage. You use the water mechanic and realise that with the reduced food consumption you only have to do 1 meat run (max 2, guess here as I never used this method) so you decide why raise 3 when you could raise 9 at the same time for roughly the same amount of work if not less than me. Now keep in mind we started at the exact same time so our dinos will mature at the same time. I might miss a few imprints due to excessive meat runs and base management whereas you won't because you have needed to do less work. Now at the time of maturation you now have 9 gigas to my 3 but have done significantly less work raising them, you will clearly win and outnumber my dinos. 

That simply is classed as an advantage you gained by unfairly using an exploit/glitch that wasn't intended to be used the way it was. Saying "you could do the same" doesn't make it any more legitimate. 

TLDR: your'e bad and you should feel bad. 

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2 hours ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Tougher argument? There is no argument that can disprove the fact that's an exploit. Nothing you can say will change that, and considering the devs have claimed it to be an exploit themselves wether they use it or not, which I assume would be for testing purposes, makes arguing against it not only futile but idiotic. 

You keep throwing the stasis argument around, that it's okay to exploit it because it's in the game. It's simple to explain why it's in the game but considering you called me thick I'll just say "duuuhhhh" instead and let you try to figure it out. Tip: it has nothing to do with breeding. 

Exploiting a mechanic that's otherwise intended for something else doesn't make it anymore reasonable to do, exploiting something to make your gaming life easier also doesn't make it the correct thing to do. I understand the food bug is a pain but prior to it dropping into the game nobody even knew the water breeding exploit was a thing, that in itself signifies that it is only used to make life easier. It's clever I'll grant you that but still wrong. 

Lets just say me and you are on a pvp server, we are on opposite tribes in a war, you do the breeding for your tribe and i do it for mine. I decide to raise 3 gigas in one go, I would need to do roughly 3-4 meat runs a day, more at baby stage. You use the water mechanic and realise that with the reduced food consumption you only have to do 1 meat run (max 2, guess here as I never used this method) so you decide why raise 3 when you could raise 9 at the same time for roughly the same amount of work if not less than me. Now keep in mind we started at the exact same time so our dinos will mature at the same time. I might miss a few imprints due to excessive meat runs and base management whereas you won't because you have needed to do less work. Now at the time of maturation you now have 9 gigas to my 3 but have done significantly less work raising them, you will clearly win and outnumber my dinos. 

That simply is classed as an advantage you gained by unfairly using an exploit/glitch that wasn't intended to be used the way it was. Saying "you could do the same" doesn't make it any more legitimate. 

TLDR: your'e bad and you should feel bad. 

That TLDR is exactly what I'd say when I had just smashed your base. And I'd be thinking "wow this Madre Teresa is now probably gonna go to the forums cry about this, poor fella" 

Also do you know what tldr means? It's supposed to sum up what you said in the text before and nothing you said means that so I'm guessing you not only are a troll but a dumb one. The correct thing would be a PS. And now I'm just gonna go cry myself to a corner because a bad man on the internet said I was bad and should feel bad. QQ

And tbh I feel like we're just going around in circles, no use arguing with Mary Sues like Yus cause that fork is never really coming out. But I am, keep fighting the good fight Etmi!

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7 hours ago, Lumitesi said:

That TLDR is exactly what I'd say when I had just smashed your base. And I'd be thinking "wow this Madre Teresa is now probably gonna go to the forums cry about this, poor fella" 

Also do you know what tldr means? It's supposed to sum up what you said in the text before and nothing you said means that so I'm guessing you not only are a troll but a dumb one. The correct thing would be a PS. And now I'm just gonna go cry myself to a corner because a bad man on the internet said I was bad and should feel bad. QQ

And tbh I feel like we're just going around in circles, no use arguing with Mary Sues like Yus cause that fork is never really coming out. But I am, keep fighting the good fight Etmi!

Trust me the TLDR had the desired affect I was aiming for xD

You call me dumb yet not only fail to understand you're abusing an exploit but advocate doing so too. Makes sense. 

You do realise that was a purely hypothetical scenario set up to try at least to show you the unfair advantage it brings over those who chose to play the game the way it was intended, yet you clearly are okay with that, doesn't say much about you as a person tbh. Just for the record if you came to my server and water bred you wouldn't be on it long, so as a said the scenario was purely for show. 

Funny how I'm a troll, yet with the above and the fact you consistently spell my handle wrong in the hope it annoys me, which it doesn't, all you're achieving is further showing me and everybody else what a salty little brat you are and that you are in fact the troll. Keep salting the earth my friend. 

Oh btw, it's still an exploit no matter what you say and it will eventually be removed, as the devs say, so yeah who really has the fork?

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On 6/2/2017 at 5:53 AM, BipedTadpole said:

What I meant was that it is in some people's nature. Not all of humanity collectively. I completely agree with you that there are some horrible people who grief just to be a PITA and that there are also decent people that just want to play and have a pleasant experience. 

And I can agree with that as well. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's just usually when people use human nature they try to make it seem like it's everyone and it is hard printed into us.

totally see where you are coming from though

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On 6/2/2017 at 6:08 AM, Lumitesi said:

1- You are making assumptions. You don't know how many people know or not about the mechanic. The nonsense starts there. 

2 - Alot of people don't know the Therizino is actually the best Meat gatherer in the game by a mile, and it is a huge advantage to use one, so is it immoral and unethical? Hope you don't get a big boo boo because I use one to farm meat

3 - I don't even think it is a bug. All land dinos get into stasis when in the water, not only babies. That probably was put there for some reason, it's a game mechanic. Therefore water breeding is just clever use of game mechanics. Unless it Is a bug that land dinos get into stasis when on water. 

Lastly, I was talking PvE (that's what I play so it's what I can comment on). Also, being honest, in my (outsider) opinion, on PVP everyone tries to get all the advantage possible so if you refused to do water breeding you had to accept the fact you were gonna be left behind. It's like you refused to farm metal with an Anky. Noone to blame but yourself.

I mean, even the devs used this method. One of then even lost a 230 melee Giga baby due to ORP. So it must not be so unacceptable, immoral, or unethical.

Stopped reading after you started to be condescending. Sure sign of a faulty argument. Once you want to act like an adult we can finish the conversation 

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19 hours ago, Lumitesi said:

But this is just it. No one is really defending water breeding. I don't think anyone even likes it because it's clearly less practical than regular breeding. What people are saying is that this is a necessary evil due to both the ridiculous rates on official and the food bugs. And given the fact the devs use them too, they probably think the same way. But they haven't reached the point that the breeding system overhaul is coming. Does it make it cheating? I don't know. Seems right now, water breeding is the norm, seems to be THE way to breed. Therefore it's not cheating. It is also fair and accessible to everyone, and works like a bandaid to a poor system. 

 

Once again, your only argument isn't fact Yus. Clever use of game mechanics=/=exploit. 

I'll give you an example you can maybe wrap your thick head around. When the first raid on the Division came out there was a bug that allowed you to get out of the map and easily destroy the main objective without dealing with everything else, effectively bypassing all difficulty and mechanics on the encounter. this is an exploit.

In this case, Stasis on land dinos floating was here long before babies were, and it's here for a reason, otherwise they would just turn it off. It's a game mechanic. All people are doing is moving their babies to the water to take advantage of said mechanic. They don't bypass anything. They still have to feed, imprint and keep the babies safe. Just makes it easier. See the difference Yushoet? If the mechanic was never meant to be used like this, yes I guess you can say people are abusing it. But not exploiting.

And I call you a troll because whenever a "tougher" argument is thrown at you you just deflect/change the subject and spew more bile. Also it isn't a stupid tactic. It's the way to play. What's stupid is not using it (that part is ok, it's your choice and no one's going to blame you) and then coming to the forums whining about how it is wrong and gives an unfair advantage when you could just take that fork out of your self righteous butt and do it too.

Sorry dude but I'm defending Yus's stand point. No matter how much you claim it is a 'necessary evil', it really isn't. There ARE players out there that breed legit. People CHOSE to use this exploit, probably because as you said, it's easier and makes breeding more do-able for folks with busy lives. Just because it's a bandaid to a time-consuming and slightly bugged mechanic doesn't mean it's RIGHT. It still puts people ahead of those that didn't know about the bug (I am one of these people, I had no clue this was a thing), and that's unfair. And even if you chose to not use it if you know about it, why shoudl someone following the legit way of breeding be set back and punished for it? THAT is what makes this not right. The devs surely won't be parading how to do this exploit and they've said it themselves it will be fixed...so why defend it? (them using it does NOT make it right either, though it sets a bad example. But they could be using it for bug fixing purposes. Either way I do not believe that person who claims they play with them, I doubt that was their base).

I do agree that yes breeding times should probably be shortened a lot or the breeding mechanic changed overall (to what I don't know though, I kinda like it as is just lower the times? Make it more interactive and the interactions are what help it grow and not the 'real time'? That's a discussion for a different thread). But trying to say this is a necessary action to even raise baby dinos is faulty at best, and many logical reasons have been given to why it's a game exploit...

Watch, a wipe will probably happen upon release. THEN we'll know crying.

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I think that if people feel the need to do this perhaps breeding could use a QoL pass.  Or perhaps it could use a feature/item that allows for easier management of dino breeding on official servers anyway.  But I brought this 'technique' up months ago in the bugs forum because I figured it would bring about discussion (and to see what the dev's think).  Is it just creative use of game mechanics?  Or is it truly exploiting a bug/glitch in game to gain an unfair advantage?  It'll be interesting to see the Dev's stance on this and if/how they address it in the future.

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48 minutes ago, Chewytowel said:

I think that if people feel the need to do this perhaps breeding could use a QoL pass.  Or perhaps it could use a feature/item that allows for easier management of dino breeding on official servers anyway.  But I brought this 'technique' up months ago in the bugs forum because I figured it would bring about discussion (and to see what the dev's think).  Is it just creative use of game mechanics?  Or is it truly exploiting a bug/glitch in game to gain an unfair advantage?  It'll be interesting to see the Dev's stance on this and if/how they address it in the future.

they spoke out on it, its absolutely ok to use for now until its fixed, everybody can make use of it and if you dont want to then thats ok, no need to feel bad about that.

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3 minutes ago, BertNoobians said:

they spoke out on it, its absolutely ok to use for now until its fixed, everybody can make use of it and if you dont want to then thats ok, no need to feel bad about that.

but remember: YUSHOETMI says you're a horrible person and the morals and ethics of it don't suit their needs. (speaking of which.. why is this thread still even open?)

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4 minutes ago, BertNoobians said:

they spoke out on it, its absolutely ok to use for now until its fixed, everybody can make use of it and if you dont want to then thats ok, no need to feel bad about that.

If their saying it's going to be fixed then that doesn't now make it okay to do lol. Was it okay to dupe or use mesh raiding before they patch it?

 

1 minute ago, Zederia said:

but remember: YUSHOETMI says you're a horrible person and the morals and ethics of it don't suit their needs. (speaking of which.. why is this thread still even open?)

The morals and ethics part of the topic was a joke from another thread I got into trouble for because it wasn't in this general forum. People was salty for losing dinos and calling for rollbacks. They didn't like the fact I called it an exploit. It seems those that abuse it don't for some reason. 

It's still open because it's not breaking any rules and is a valid topic, just because it goes against your beliefs doesnt mean it shouldn't go on. 

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