Jump to content

Defense vs offense


Volcano637

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply
20 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

its not horror, its disbelief you could be so utterly clueless. xplants do not equal a human manning a AA gun shooting at the jap planes, regardless of if they wasn't expecting it and had minimum presence at the time, they still had a contingent of men/women who was shooting back at them.  Comparing that to a plant that follows its AI code and not like a human defending a base at all is beyond stupidity.

You do realise this is a game right amd has no connection on real life, but if you want to go down that path lets see:

Offline raiding is more akin to a real life situation like, lets say, the first attack on the world trade center, the failed one with the van under the building, done in the middle of the night when nobody was at work.  Or more like a coward psycho grabbing a gun and shooting up a cinema or school where nobody can defend against it.  Maybe also like driving a lorry through a crowd of people who wasn't expecting it.  How about planting a bomb on a roadside in afghan/iraq and sitting miles away ready to detonate when a solider walks past?  Maybe even leaving a bomb at the end of a marathon. By your logic 

Notice how all of these scenarios that have happened in real life, where done in a situation where no resistance was met and nobody could defend against it? That's what an offline raid is.  Not that im labeling you as a terrorist but hey if you want to try and say something shocking at least do it right,

I love how you are trying to demonise me :D you got nothing. It has nothing to do with cowardice, I regularly engage in direct pvp and do ok ;) But if you think xplants an turrets equal no resistance then so be it :D But every example you gave involved killing real people. I don't kill real people nor when I offline raid I often don't even kill digital people so not one of your examples applies.

You are trying very hard to justify your position but doing very poorly. :P Please try again.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok so if I am raiding you online do I need to sit someone out if it is 2v3? cause after all it wouldnt be fair would it :D

And I guess I need to wait till you are looking in my direction before I shoot you as well?

And if I need to take a potty break do we take a time out?

So many questions, I think I will stick with offlining :D

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Armadatiny said:

I love how you are trying to demonise me :D you got nothing. It has nothing to do with cowardice, I regularly engage in direct pvp and do ok ;) But if you think xplants an turrets equal no resistance then so be it :D But every example you gave involved killing real people. I don't kill real people nor when I offline raid I often don't even kill digital people so not one of your examples applies.

You are trying very hard to justify your position but doing very poorly. :P Please try again.

 

Fail to see how i'm doing poorly, I don't even need to do anything your showing yourself to be exactly whats wrong with this game all by yourself with good effect.

Would you consider a wild rex to be a threat in game? Not unless your a poor or low level player you wouldn't. Why? because it is AI driven, you can plan according to the actions the AI will take and know exactly how to defeat it without any resistance or threat.  The Turrets and Plants are exactly the same, AI driven, no human instincts or variation on what will happen, you just place a turtle within its firing range and wait for it to stop shooting, absolutely no skill needed.  Except the problem is, and why I hate it so much is the poor sap your doing this too has spent weeks/months/years building this base and defending it, all those hours of resource collecting and management to be destroyed because you used minimal resources by raiding them why they was offline.. its complete cowardice.

Kudos to you for doing okay in PvP, if you cant handle yourself in PvP your'e in the wrong game mode, but the fact you totally justify, condone and gloat about offline raiding just makes you a complete moron who clearly has no life outside of gaming.

FYI your initial comparison of Pearl Harbor resulted in many human deaths, so is it not logical for me to compare other loss of human life given your logic?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Armadatiny said:

Ok so if I am raiding you online do I need to sit someone out if it is 2v3? cause after all it wouldnt be fair would it :D

And I guess I need to wait till you are looking in my direction before I shoot you as well?

And if I need to take a potty break do we take a time out?

So many questions, I think I will stick with offlining :D

 

 

Not in the slightest, i've defended a base with only 4 people online against 40+ individuals spread over 5 tribes.  One of those 4 was my girlfriend who hadn't even shot a weapon in the game prior to that.  Coupled with our defences and 4 people online they had a harder fight than they expected.

Your'e just making yourself sound like a really bad player pal, keep it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Rub0 said:

The draining power is too strong compared to the effort of farming thousands of bullets imo. I agree with the multiple layers with thousands of plant X and turrets. If your base is a pain in the ass to raid it will most likely be raided the last of your server and it will take enough time to you to get online

When my buddy and I got wiped we were the last tribe left on the server. We had a huge base for two people with 100 turrets and probably 200 xspecies. It would have been nice to have 1000 xspecies but that is a little hard when two people are busy filling turrets with bullets. Don't worry I am over it, I just made this thread because any little thing would have helped at that point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, szabiferi said:

I think simply just boosting HP and defense only makes attack a bit more time consuming but it wont be harder. 

I think other things needs to be introduced, like
- better dino AI, even some kind of "programming" possibility to have the non ridden dinos actual defense value
- booby traps what are NOT triggered by the tribe deployed it (man, this simple thing would make defenses much better)
- motion sensors triggering various mechanisms (even just turning on-off electricity via motion sensormechanism could allow offline defenders to setup interesting traps. If they could introduce hydraulics and components like command blocks a'la inecraft that would open tons of options

etc etc.

Those are some good ideas. Stuff like this ^ is why I made this thread in the first place

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, szabiferi said:

@Brayn Your first sentence was REALLY not needed here, I almost stopped reading your post what was otherwise really great. 

I especially liked the manned turrets with gigantopithecus - immediately the servitors of Warhammer 40K came into my mind :) 

Yeah those were actually some very good ideas he had. But yes I didn't really feel like replying to him after that first comment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TangoOsmo said:

All we need is ORP. Disable pvp complitely for 4-6h a night (for example 4 - 10 am local tame) and add some small buffs when no allied players haven't been in rendering distance. For example turrets should gain 2-3x dmg and it could increase over time.

And to @oScottieHo , must have been bad raiders if they didn't get in within 4 hours.

 

Honestly, I have strange feelings on that. 

As a defender: indeed I want to make sure, no one may attack me if I'm not in the game. In my case that means my base shouldbe protected from 02:00 - 21:00, because as an "adult" worker I work and have family life, so I play in the night. 

As an attacker: indeed, I want to be able to attack people when I AM online. Because when I AM (as attacker) offline, indeed I cant attack.

People on our server might think I'm a son-of-a-bitch-evil-scum, because I deliberately raid them when they are offline. But the fact is, when we decide to go to raid, we dont know whether the target is online or offline. I just go to raid at that time, because that is the time when I play. 

In my case, ORP simply disables the PVP for me, as most of the players are playing afternoon-early night, while I play in the late night. 

I think any attempt to regulate the raid schedules greatly removes the freedom and favors the defenders. Especially, because online raids are usually fruitless, as the defenders are usually thrrowing out everything from the vaults and storages when they see they cant win. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TangoOsmo said:

All we need is ORP. Disable pvp complitely for 4-6h a night (for example 4 - 10 am local tame) and add some small buffs when no allied players haven't been in rendering distance. For example turrets should gain 2-3x dmg and it could increase over time.

And to @oScottieHo , must have been bad raiders if they didn't get in within 4 hours.

 

Yes I do think ORP would probably be the best way to go. And not even because of the ORP, it is because the best defense for a base is actually having a player it. Even if it is only 1 player lol 

I mean even one rocket launcher or one sniper rifle can make a big difference 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, BobRoss said:

i agree that defense is way to weak compared to offense. 

some simple suggestions that are easy to implement:

-structures get more health maybe even armor when snapped together. the more sturctures snapped together the more HP+armor you get. this ofcourse caps at a certain number.

-building tier between metal and TEK. reinforced steel maybe. with very strong defense to explosions but weak against tek?

-different type of auto turrets with different qualituies, for example ramshacke/journeyman etc auto turrets. with different types i mean fast shooting low damage or slower shooting higher damage. maybe even rocket turrets or grenade flinging turrets.

-different types of bullets. like for example penetrator rounds that ignore a % of armor. or incindiary rounds that set targets aflame and do damage over time, % of max health per second

-spiked foundations that damage enemies of they walk over them. (more early game)

 

Even more good ideas. I am loving seeing all of this. Actually haven't seen one bad idea yet. Awesome 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

Yes I do think ORP would probably be the best way to go. And not even because of the ORP, it is because the best defense for a base is actually having a player it. Even if it is only 1 player lol 

I mean even one rocket launcher or one sniper rifle can make a big difference 

ORP with a mechanism what makes sure the loot does not despawn if the defenders empty their vault during the raid. Or whatever is thrown out, will not despawn after the despawn timer goes down but collected in a central vault what cannot be accessed by anyone until the battle lasts. When it ends, it is unlocked automatically and the team who owns the battlefield have access to it. 

Or maybe some war declaration system - like when you want to assault someone you send a "war declaration" and after a configured time (8 hours? 12 hours?) ther base is targettable whether they are online or offline. Nevertheless, the drawback would be the game would just assault more our real life. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Fail to see how i'm doing poorly, I don't even need to do anything your showing yourself to be exactly whats wrong with this game all by yourself with good effect.

Would you consider a wild rex to be a threat in game? Not unless your a poor or low level player you wouldn't. Why? because it is AI driven, you can plan according to the actions the AI will take and know exactly how to defeat it without any resistance or threat.  The Turrets and Plants are exactly the same, AI driven, no human instincts or variation on what will happen, you just place a turtle within its firing range and wait for it to stop shooting, absolutely no skill needed.  Except the problem is, and why I hate it so much is the poor sap your doing this too has spent weeks/months/years building this base and defending it, all those hours of resource collecting and management to be destroyed because you used minimal resources by raiding them why they was offline.. its complete cowardice.

Kudos to you for doing okay in PvP, if you cant handle yourself in PvP your'e in the wrong game mode, but the fact you totally justify, condone and gloat about offline raiding just makes you a complete moron who clearly has no life outside of gaming.

FYI your initial comparison of Pearl Harbor resulted in many human deaths, so is it not logical for me to compare other loss of human life given your logic?

Well how about we look at it this way, you are upset that I would offline someone. A perfectly legitimate strategy commonly used in this game and in real life for that matter. One that if you asked the Devs they would say is legal. You on the other hand, because I support this positon you would sit back and watch a stream and laugh at me getting beaten by guys cheating, via hacks and glitches, all of which are banable offences by the GM's and Devs.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Don't think stone should be buffed to withstand more hits, but I do like the idea of a middle tier between stone and metal, some kind of reinforced structure.  That would be better.

Yep. Reinforced concrete. It is used in most type I building construction and in some cases stronger than the steel I-beams that are used with it.

you could actually put reinforced concrete between metal and tek.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, lvirusl said:

Best way to provide yourself with ORP is merge tribes with people from all over the world. Then you always have someone on, no matter the time of day. It works quite nicely when you can always have people scanning that tribe log ready to respond.

Exactly! The game was specifically made to accomodate large tribes and multiple alliances from different time zones.

 

7 minutes ago, szabiferi said:

ORP with a mechanism what makes sure the loot does not despawn if the defenders empty their vault during the raid.

Or maybe some war declaration system - like when you want to assault someone you send a "war declaration" and after a configured time (8 hours? 12 hours?) ther base is targettable whether they are online or offline. Nevertheless, the drawback would be the game would just assault more our real life. 

I'm not a fan of ORP and if you have a look the servers with it are usually dead. People popcorning loot is another reason why some people favor offlining when given the chance. Plenty of unofficials around with ORP if people are that way inclined.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Armadatiny said:

Ok so if I am raiding you online do I need to sit someone out if it is 2v3? cause after all it wouldnt be fair would it :D

And I guess I need to wait till you are looking in my direction before I shoot you as well?

And if I need to take a potty break do we take a time out?

So many questions, I think I will stick with offlining :D

 

 

 No, I would actually be fine with 40 vs 1 lol atleast I would have the chance at actual "pvp" I mean, or order to do player vs player you do kind of need the players, it's in the name.

i don't even care if I still get wiped, which I probably would anyway especially if it was 40 against 1 but once again atleast I could engage in some pvp. No just get on to where all of my stuff and Dino's are dead. 

I think i got to have one really good pvp experience but that was probably a year and a half ago. Some idiot from our tribe got together with the leader of the alpha(before cross ark) and they insided but not completely. The rest of that alpha tribe came over with their bow quetz(those were still a thing then) along with Rexs birds and a giga. Luckily my buddy and I got on literally minutes before it started. They announced on global chat that they were coming for us and any allies that helped would be wiped as well. We frantically started looking through every vault for the best gear and weapons we could get. Tried to fill turrets with as many bullets as possible.

We managed to kill their quetz and some birds. They then went on to get the 2nd and 3rd largest tribes help and they brought more quetzals and gigas. It was a long fight and a long day but after about 8 hours or so we just ran out of defense.

funnt thing was we actually had a couple people sneakily fly into our bases and drop us some guns and ammo so we could continue to fight against these over whelming odds. After it was over we told them good game and went on about our way. Did we like that they have to have the 3 biggest tribes go against us? I would say no but I actually kind of did. It was an awesome day and to tell you the truth in the almost 2 years I have been playing that is the only time I got to have that much fun.

i still want cross ark to die off

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Armadatiny said:

Well how about we look at it this way, you are upset that I would offline someone. A perfectly legitimate strategy commonly used in this game and in real life for that matter.

 

 

Are you serious. Used in real life? Yeah the seals attacked bin laden as compound when he was away on holiday. How stupid of me. Okay let's compare offline to somebody not being in a building in real life yeah. Then please explain to me why a force would spend resources and manpower attacking a building where there target isn't at? Do you even know how real life combat goes?

i served in the army, and have been in real life combat so let me break it down for you seeing as you like to compare a computer game to real life war scenarios. 

ROE - or rules of engagement, these rules are to be followed by all service members in an action zone, failure to do so is punishable by jail. See the Marine A case in the U.K. for an example. In real life even if you know an enemy is in a compound you can't just sit at a distance and fire rockets at the building. Infact even if you come face to face with an enemy solider you can't shoot them unless they point their rifles at you first. 

Never in a million years would the army or any other force attack a compound where there is no enemy presence even if there had been at any time before hand. 

Dinosaurs are not used in real life combat. It would be fun but sadly it isn't. 

I have seen and felt the loss of human life in a real life situation and trust me you don't respawn.  Ever seen a guy kick down a door and trip an IED on the other side? Or seen the fear on somebodies face as they stepped on a pressure plate inside a compound? Knowing that even if they pass wind their gonna end up as a red mist?

so please do keep thinking your a war hero because you offline raided a few tribes with your "mega tribe" and I'll keep laughing at the idea of you getting boots on the ground in a war zone and following through with the first round that flies past your head. 

48 minutes ago, Armadatiny said:

I'm not a fan of ORP 

 

What a surprise. How could you justify offline raiding and pretend your good at a game if your only usable skills are removed. 

 

DISCLAIMER - before anybody gets the wrong idea I am not adjudging myself to be a war hero, not even close, just irked at the fact he compared a game to war situations and suggested it closely reflected real life without ever experiencing it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is offline raiding or raiding when few players are online is often the only viable way a smaller tribe can get back at a larger tribe. It would be suicidal for a tribe of 5 to attack a tribe of 20 when they are all online, but if they wait till there is only 1 online or none then they have somewhat of a chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

The problem is offline raiding or raiding when few players are online is often the only viable way a smaller tribe can get back at a larger tribe. It would be suicidal for a tribe of 5 to attack a tribe of 20 when they are all online, but if they wait till there is only 1 online or none then they have somewhat of a chance.

That's still classed as PvP tho, well unless they do it when all are offline which I wouldn't agree with, but Player vs Player, needs the Player interaction from both sides or it's just Player vs Base 100v100 or 100v1 is still PvP which is better than 100v0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

That's still classed as PvP tho, well unless they do it when all are offline which I wouldn't agree with, but Player vs Player, needs the Player interaction from both sides or it's just Player vs Base 100v100 or 100v1 is still PvP which is better than 100v0

True in a way but they need to buff siege weapons to make live base assaults more viable. If a base has 1000 turrets you will need tonnes of brontos/turtles to enter. If they made cannons and other siege weapons more useful again then base assaults would be more exciting then the current snooze fest where you sit around for hours draining the turrets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

True in a way but they need to buff siege weapons to make live base assaults more viable. If a base has 1000 turrets you will need tonnes of brontos/turtles to enter. If they made cannons and other siege weapons more useful again then base assaults would be more exciting then the current snooze fest where you sit around for hours draining the turrets.

I totally agree, defence needs a good looking at and made less faulty, but with the idea to also make raiding less of a timesink and actually require some skill.  I have no problem with being raided by a tribe if I am online, it has yet to happen as the only time i've been wiped is when we wasn't online.

I can only see ORP being an option as if you make the defences more viable for protection when offline then it would make raids when people are online impossible, both defence and offence need revamping tbh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Volcano637 said:

I have noticed that defenses are still very much helpless are far as offensive power goes. It would be nice to see a significant increase in everything defense wise. 

Now the main reason I said that is the most common form of raiding is that of offline raiding people. It is easily the most used strategy as some people call it. 

I just think if people are going to attack a base with nobody in it to help protect it then the base should be a little stronger to defend itself, by itself.

i can see some people that aren't good at pvp not liking this idea and I don't really blame them. I mean if you are not good the last thing you want is for it to be harder, am I right? Lol

the thing is the people that are good at pvp wouldn't really care if the change was made because they could still be successful. And if someone says they really like a challenge then the was things are right now are not a challenge at all for the elite.

so boosting health on structures, along with boosting damage from auto turrets and xspecies would be a good start. 

There are many things that are unbalanced in this game but I believe the most unbalanced aspect is in fact offense vs defense

tbh they shouldve just added ORP (with structure decay) to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

read half of it and took a break. you guys like to argue over an ethical question that is offline raiding. i see merits on both sides, but that isn't the problem. problem here is the rather expensive defense over offence situation. there are actually many simple solutions, like saddles shouldn't really give armor to the rider, dinos should teamkill (bronto swipe, giga bite), saddle durability. also, an antique metal pick weighs about 2.5kg whilst a bullet is hundreds if not thousand times lighter so, why do both cost 1 ingot? i mean, you should be able to craft hundreds of bullets from the same mass. i know it's not portraying in-game balance but still, make it 5 per ingot or smth. most tribes struggle to fill the many turrets needed to protect themselves over an offline raid, especially after the flier nerf. oh, tier structures is a nice idea too. having ascendant metal walls with 50k hp but take 500 ingots to craft. probably dupers will benefit most which is why i support a full wipe after these glitches are fixed. i mean, just look at the element situation. most if not all are exploiting the bosses right now (broods non-existant collision means it doesn't attack, ape arena has unreachable spots, dragon just "dies"). 

to WC i say add more content and then balance it 100 times if needed to give a fair chance to us all, after a full wipe of course :P 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...