Jump to content

A Game Of Clubs


BulletForce

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, PuffyPony said:

To be fair, considering that there is no objectively good counter for clubs until level 98 (or 80, assuming that's still the level to unlock Deep Sea Loot Crates), then Clubs are OP. Do you consider the TEK Rifle OP, because it's one of the strongest weapons in the game? The answer if you're logically consistent here is yes, but I think that if you're going to be completely fair, the answer is no because it's a very high level item and has significant costs in terms of upfront investment and long-term ammo/repair. The reason we're saying clubs are so OP is that they cost so few resources, unlock at a low level, and have no real meaningful counter until very, very high levels. Fists are not nearly as bad because they're affected by armor.

But I do agree that weapons/torpor/armor need a general rework.

Good post PuffyPony. The effectiveness of the club is in both its ultra cheap cost and its all round effectiveness. A club user with a decent amount of melee only needs to land one hit while the guy using the expensive sword/pike needs to land several in order to kill the enemy. Once KOed your effectively dead anyway so in essence clubs are one hit death weapons that have no viable or cost effective counter relative to the level that you unlock them at and even late game they still truly lack good counters, riot armor being way too expensive and heavy for what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Also, overpowered does not mean "no way to counter it, the most powerful thing". It means that it's OVERly POWERful, given what it is, which is a low level item that takes 4 wood and 15 fiber. Ridiculous to claim that overpowered only means the literal best thing. It's too cheap and low leveled to be so effective, i.e. overpowered, unbalanced, etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, BulletForce said:

Since their introduction in October 2015, the simple Wooden Club has been by far the best value weapon in the game. For 4 and 15 fiber with the right stats you can one hit players wearing thousands of ingots worth of elite armor equipped with the best melee weapons one can buy. Not only has it been obviously broken for a very long time but it has also made fights in this game one dimensional and one sided. There is literally no point to using other melee weapons at present no matter how elite they are. 

 

To prove my point we conducted a simple test. Player A was equipped with a Mastercraft sword (800+ ingots to make). Player B had a primitive wooden club (4 wood, 15 fiber). The player stats for both players were 300 health, 300% melee. Both players had the same journeyman flak armor equipped costing upwards of 1000+ ingots to make. The result?

Player B with the primitive club took out player A in two swings while player A managed to land one hit taking off a quarter health.

We repeated the test using a pike instead and the result is very much the same. The club is the king of melee weapons currently, it has no rival neither in cost efficiency nor effectiveness. 

We then conducted a third test this time Player A remained the same equipped with a sword and player B was naked with a primitive wooden club but had 400% melee damage and 300 health. The result?

Player B knocked out Player A in one swing.

That is 4 wood 15 fiber beating 800 ingots for the sword + 1000 ingots for the armor. How is that not broken devs? This is beyond broken. You fixed flyers (although after a painfully long time) now these broken club mechanics needs to be fixed. My recommendation would to be scale club damage with armor, similar to the way every other weapon works. This would mean that clubs could still knock out naked players fairly easily but they should no longer be the go to weapon against players in armor. The result would be melee combat that once again sees players using pikes, swords, shields instead of just clubs. Far more interesting gameplay if you ask me.

I am not the first person to complain about this and I am sure neither I will be the last.  The next patch comes out at the end of this month, I sincerely hope the developers will address this very broken gameplay issue by then.

Good job man. I like to see people taking initiative and coming to the forums with tested facts. And you came at it in a good way(not whining) don't be surprised if the devs notice this good thread and do something about it ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

its so unrealistic, if Club were the best melee weapon to use in war we would never have craft sword and spears etc . Making club the kind of the melee weapon in PVP is spiting on 5000 years of human history.

 

Its probably the worse thing in the game with the hitbox problem right now. 

 

I have a super metal armor with a super nice sword and am running away from the naked neanderthal with a club. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Carcajou said:

its so unrealistic, if Club were the best melee weapon to use in war we would never have craft sword and spears etc . Making club the kind of the melee weapon in PVP is spiting on 5000 years of human history.

 

Its probably the worse thing in the game with the hitbox problem right now. 

 

I have a super metal armor with a super nice sword and am running away from the naked neanderthal with a club. 

 

 

Yep its a total farce what is happening atm. There is literally no point to using any other weapon melee weapon. It is that broken. I'm really surprised haven't picked up on this sooner, its not exactly a new issue and is very obviously broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Volcano637 said:

Good job man. I like to see people taking initiative and coming to the forums with tested facts. And you came at it in a good way(not whining) don't be surprised if the devs notice this good thread and do something about it ?

Its been almost 2 years and I haven't seen them say a word on it yet and there has been quite a few threads about it over that time. I remember making one back in 2015 on the steam forum listing basically the same issues I listed today. Not much has changed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well after seeing how they made flyers much more balanced for PvP (Ptera barrel roll 5 sec cooldown as well as all the other combined flyer nerfs) and fixed Cluster grenades, etc - I'm hopeful that they'll soon draw their attention to wooden clubs. They're probably still trying to come up with a solution and if it's taking this long, I have a feeling it's because they'd have to change riot armour in some way to compensate, but surely riot armour isn't in the game just to counter clubs otherwise it would specifically say that, so I don't see a club nerf degrading riot armour. 

How about buffing riot armour or reducing its costs to compensate, if that's the case.

WildCard do have a lot of awesome solutions to problems (many will disagree because of flyer nerfs) so I'm staying hopeful.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Crows said:

Well after seeing how they made flyers much more balanced for PvP (Ptera barrel roll 5 sec cooldown as well as all the other combined flyer nerfs) and fixed Cluster grenades, etc - I'm hopeful that they'll soon draw their attention to wooden clubs. They're probably still trying to come up with a solution and if it's taking this long, I have a feeling it's because they'd have to change riot armour in some way to compensate, but surely riot armour isn't in the game just to counter clubs otherwise it would specifically say that, so I don't see a club nerf degrading riot armour. 

How about buffing riot armour or reducing its costs to compensate, if that's the case.

WildCard do have a lot of awesome solutions to problems (many will disagree because of flyer nerfs) so I'm staying hopeful.  

General armor rework (including buffing Riot Armor durability and perhaps reducing cost)
Make clubs affected by armor
Possibly introduce different torpor-inducing melee weapons that function differently against armor (i.e. Electric Prod bypasses it but is heavily affected by Fortitude, Club vice versa)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/12/2017 at 10:47 PM, BulletForce said:

Its been almost 2 years and I haven't seen them say a word on it yet and there has been quite a few threads about it over that time. I remember making one back in 2015 on the steam forum listing basically the same issues I listed today. Not much has changed.

Would love to know why they're so quiet about wooden clubs. 9_9

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I remember correctly I did see at one time one of the devs or moderaters say that the club was the great balancer for new players/ lower level players in pvp against higher level players, it is the only weapon a low level player can "try" to defend themselves with against a higher level player. That being said I do think the better armours should have a bit more Torpor resistance to them, maybe 3 or 4 hits before you get knocked out instead of 1 or 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/11/2017 at 8:34 AM, Jostabeere said:

You need to be level 80 to be able to get any club above primitive. 

And no. It's not additional protection, it renders low-quality clubs useless if paired with fortitude.

But whatever fits your argument since it's useless to discuss with your kind.

Clubs are OP. Happy? :Jerbmad:

 

 

I guess you've never been to ice cave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

Since you seem to always know what I did and what I didn't in the game, I don't even want to discuss with you.

Well, you said you can't get a good club bp unless you're lvl 80. And I said you're wrong. But, since you seem to have a problem with everything and everyone, I don't even want to discuss with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 16.5.2017 at 10:04 PM, TheLastNerb said:

Well, you said you can't get a good club bp unless you're lvl 80. And I said you're wrong. But, since you seem to have a problem with everything and everyone, I don't even want to discuss with you.

You did not say I'm wrong.

You claimed I was never in the ice cave. You can't properly explain yourself and just go for claims, like you do quite often.

And even if it's accessable with level 55, the ratio of people getting Deep Sea crates to the red Ice Cave crate should be high.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

You did not say I'm wrong.

You claimed I was never in the ice cave. You can't properly explain yourself and just go for claims, like you do quite often.

And even if it's accessable with level 55, the ratio of people getting Deep Sea crates to the red Ice Cave crate should be high.

 

If you were in the ice cave often, you would know you found clubs down there. 

Either you haven't been down there or you are lying. Sorry, next time I will assume you are lying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the nerf. You just have to hit a sweet spot in melee damage to knock people out with the primitive club(285% melee)in one hit even if they have fortitude in 8. If they have fortitude in 10, then 2 hits which is extremely easy to do if you sneak up on them. I tried to talk about this in a thread on reddit and a guy just told me that the club wasn't OP because you only needed to get on a tame. To this day I still don't understand how he can justify he's claim that the club was balanced by saying that one only needed to get on a 200+lvl tame just to fight a guy with only his birthday suit and a club. 

The club just needs a nerf in regard to it's ability to ignore armor. For example:

A guy with 285% melee can KO chitin amor players in 2 hits, flack in 3.

This way club user have to fight with a little more skill than just running straight to an enemy and clubbing, this will also not make the club useless cause it'll still be  effective at KO players. While still making fortitude important in players builds. 

Flack wearing players with 20 fortitude would get KO in 5 hits by a player with a primitive club and 285%melee damage.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/11/2017 at 5:56 AM, Jostabeere said:

Or you could wear a Riot armor costing a few hundreds pearls and Polymer and a club won't do jack to you unless the guy has a perfect ASC club and 600% melee. But in that case he has low health and speed.

Ressource-management'n'stuff.

Use-all-given-possibilities'n'stuff.

Cant get riot at level 80 anymore. Its lv 98. Only counter to clubs. Now you have to be max level to counter them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/11/2017 at 5:53 PM, BulletForce said:

Since their introduction in October 2015, the simple Wooden Club has been by far the best value weapon in the game. For 4 and 15 fiber with the right stats you can one hit players wearing thousands of ingots worth of elite armor equipped with the best melee weapons one can buy. Not only has it been obviously broken for a very long time but it has also made fights in this game one dimensional and one sided. There is literally no point to using other melee weapons at present no matter how elite they are. 

 

To prove my point we conducted a simple test. Player A was equipped with a Mastercraft sword (800+ ingots to make). Player B had a primitive wooden club (4 wood, 15 fiber). The player stats for both players were 300 health, 300% melee. Both players had the same journeyman flak armor equipped costing upwards of 1000+ ingots to make. The result?

Player B with the primitive club took out player A in two swings while player A managed to land one hit taking off a quarter health.

We repeated the test using a pike instead and the result is very much the same. The club is the king of melee weapons currently, it has no rival neither in cost efficiency nor effectiveness. 

We then conducted a third test this time Player A remained the same equipped with a sword and player B was naked with a primitive wooden club but had 400% melee damage and 300 health. The result?

Player B knocked out Player A in one swing.

That is 4 wood 15 fiber beating 800 ingots for the sword + 1000 ingots for the armor. How is that not broken devs? This is beyond broken. You fixed flyers (although after a painfully long time) now these broken club mechanics needs to be fixed. My recommendation would to be scale club damage with armor, similar to the way every other weapon works. This would mean that clubs could still knock out naked players fairly easily but they should no longer be the go to weapon against players in armor. The result would be melee combat that once again sees players using pikes, swords, shields instead of just clubs. Far more interesting gameplay if you ask me.

I am not the first person to complain about this and I am sure neither I will be the last.  The next patch comes out at the end of this month, I sincerely hope the developers will address this very broken gameplay issue by then.

How much testing have you done with this. Have you re-spec 40 fortitude + riot + using a shield?

 

I know many people that complain it are still in the speed meta where no one can catch you because you have 200% MS but when you stop and someone sneaks up behind you they raptor your day with a club.

 

Also the best melee weapon is the prod hands down a prod is the most broken weapon in the game. Having 40 fort and riot will even make a 350% club with 200 melee more then likely takes 4-5 shots which is more then enough time to pop some stimulants. My opinion on the club issue is it should be a new player weapon so anyone under level 50 can use it anyone above level 51 cant take the weapon out. The weapon is used a lot because of the current issues the game has with the alliance system instead of people bringing their own poop to a raid they just grab a club join the defenders or raiders and then try to club people out till they finally get some gear then transfer off with it anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Kurbbie said:

Cant get riot at level 80 anymore. Its lv 98. Only counter to clubs. Now you have to be max level to counter them.

This just goes to show how unbalanced the club really is. Players have to be max level and make expensive riot armor in order to counter it and even then its far from guaranteed. 

No matter how you look at it, the club is quite clearly and obviously very broken and unbalanced. There is nothing else in the game that can compete with it on price and effectiveness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Hypsy said:

You could just have 30 points in fort and rock round with your own club.

But that would be "wasted" points and an obvious counter.

 

Maybe we should nerf bolas too? because i don't carry bolas and really hate when i'm unprepared to deal with not being able to move at all.

Shock darts/prods are just crazy too, Omg how can someone using such little resources knock me out like that.

/s

Torpor weapons in this game are quite unbalanced on the whole but the club is the main offender at present owing to its simplicity and effectiveness. Also fortitude does little to actually counter clubs. Its all well and good to say that if you stack 50 points in fort that when you get one hit by a club your torpor depletes faster, but no decent player is going to let you wake up once your down. Being knocked out is effectively a death sentence in PVP and fort makes no real difference for the amount of points you need to invest.

Its a broken mechanic and very obviously so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

Torpor weapons in this game are quite unbalanced on the whole but the club is the main offender at present owing to its simplicity and effectiveness. Also fortitude does little to actually counter clubs. Its all well and good to say that if you stack 50 points in fort that when you get one hit by a club your torpor depletes faster, but no decent player is going to let you wake up once your down. Being knocked out is effectively a death sentence in PVP and fort makes no real difference for the amount of points you need to invest.

Its a broken mechanic and very obviously so.

Yeah I literally just did a hp/fort build with a mind-wipe and had a 1v1 shotgun vs. club and lost hands down.

I was wearing riot, The bro was wearing flak.

Not impressed tbh, Was expecting to roll him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...