Genuine Feedback on Flver V3 from console players

[skeeta]

6 hours ago, Volcano637 said:

I don't really think a ptera should do any damage at all. Simply a scout. Oh and it should be able to be killed with one pike hit from a human as well as no pick ability 

Maybe a bit harsh but I agree generally. A beak like that has to be capable of a little damage and you need a bit of a chance to escape if you're attacked during a rest break. If one pike hit can take it down then one bite from most medium sized creatures will too. That's a little too fragile. 

[THELILASSASSIN]

The pteranodon needs more stamina , I can't get from my base to my friends in 1 go , still faster than my raptor but only by 20 sec cause were like 2 minutes away running speed 

[GP]

Just now, THELILASSASSIN said:

The pteranodon needs more stamina , I can't get from my base to my friends in 1 go

That is no reason for it to need more stamina. Of course it may depend on how far apart your bases are, but just because it can't fly non-stop is no reason for it to need a stam boost. That's why you have the ability to put points into stam.

[Samammo]

In my opinion, they should have either nerfed speed or Stam, not both.

quetzal- I'm fine with it moving slow, but they should have a lot of stamina to fulfil the role of long distance transporters.

argie- seems fine

ptera- strongly dislike the cooldown on barrel rolls, I can't even fight an argie without spinning in a circle and giving myself motion sickness in the process. Apart from that they're fine.

wyvern- Way too weak now. 4 days raising and a lot of Haarlem to imprint and get milk, for something that has a strong bite but has to land after using a special attack a few times. The Stamina should be greatly increased.

for all birds, I think the speed should be capped at a speed, rather than stuck at base. So if you want to move faster you have to spend points to do so

[DankestKhan]

Petra is still not in the right place. It needs to do far less damage, to the point of being almost helpless. It's tamed with dodo kibble, it shouldn't be doing barrel rolls of doom over and over again. Buff its speed and stam, nerf its base damage into the ground.

Argie is ok, could be a tad bit faster but the best flyer all around right now.

Quetz is way too slow, you shouldn't be able to run faster on the ground than a flying animal sorry. Buff its base speed, nerf its weight a bit if anything.

Wyvern should not drain its stamina when using breath weapon, otherwise fine.

[Joey117]

i would like to see instead of a speed buff an imprinting buff. If you take the time to imprint shouldn't you be rewarded with a speed or stamina increase? make it so that speed and stamina base stat on all baby dinos is always at what it is now but allow the baby dino to get a speed buff through imprinting. 

[Yologaming]

Personally, my idea, add a movement speed mutation to fliers. Give purpose to breeding. You have to breed and find the movement speed mutation to make birds fly faster. Movement speed variations could be implemented I  the mutations. Say you have a wild ptera with  a 30% movement speed mutation you could breed into all your birds of that type. Speed on all fliers is just blah at this point compared to what I am used to. And seeing as barrel roll was a major issue we could remove it all together and I wouldn't be hurt by it. Also a Quetz should Regen stamina in air. Even if at the slower rate. This to me would be a happy median for all. And stamina level up should definitely be worth more. Wyvern stamina drain on special attack should be lessened in air and alot less if using it on ground. However I do play on a dedicated server so to me I personally just want the option to disable it all together in my settings.

[Kovah78]

I truly believe the overall divide comes from PVP vs PVE. Therefore, PVP & PVE should have 2 completely different rules. They are completely different environments, so they should be treated totally different. 

 

On PVE, what were the flyers breaking? Nothing. If anything, I thought attack was ridiculous, not speed and stamina.

 

And as far as PVP, I wouldn't even weigh in since I don't play that and would respect PVP'ers do the same for PVE.

[usrevenge]

quetzal needs a speed buff.

 

Argy needs a speed buff.

 

Pterandon is ok I guess, maybe needs more stamina.

 

Dragons needs more stamina.

 

tapejera could use more speed or stamina, or both. also bring back strafe+sprint.

[OnePotatoChip]

1 hour ago, Kovah78 said:

I truly believe the overall divide comes from PVP vs PVE. Therefore, PVP & PVE should have 2 completely different rules. They are completely different environments, so they should be treated totally different. 

 

On PVE, what were the flyers breaking? Nothing. If anything, I thought attack was ridiculous, not speed and stamina.

 

And as far as PVP, I wouldn't even weigh in since I don't play that and would respect PVP'ers do the same for PVE.

Actually, the developers have chimed in that this was just as much a PvE nerf as it was for PvP. Flyers, generally, made many land animals pointless unless they were for gathering or the occasional cave. There's a reason flyers are as valued as they are, and there's a reason why you'll hear many players call most dinos WC integrates into the game 'useless'. Usually, it's because many PvE players, let alone PvP players, saw little reason to tame them as the gold standards were already in the game. Other than for 'Pokedex' or kibble reasons, of course. 

I think their overarching goal is to make it so flyers can't Do It All. They're going for each of them having specific roles that won't necessarily tread on land animal territory while still offering their own unique functions and abilities. It's a bit of a shock to most of the player base I'm assuming because they're so used to the flyer-centric game ARK's become over the past year or so, and adjusting isn't easy. Or because they feel sour about their breeding lines being tampered with (which I get despite ARK still being 'under construction'; WC should have handled this sooner before it got out of hand).

Still, this'll give WC the opportunity to see if resource distribution is something they need to look into and focus on the shortcomings of land animals (which they're aware of, apparently; Jat's said something about land buffs on the way). 

Anyway, my feedback on the next iteration on the flyer balance is:

1. Scale back the stamina depletion on Wyverns when using their breath and replace it with a cooldown. It should cost a moderate amount of stamina, but not as much as it does. 

2. If people really want, increase the speed of the Ptera, but drop its weight further and perhaps even put a cap on it so even breeding doesn't enable people to carry whatever they need on their speedy scout. Being able to carry decent weight with at least moderate speed should belong to Argents or land animals designed for such. 

I'd even look into seeing about birds becoming encumbered at a lower percentage of their weight than land animals, with the exception being the Quetzal. 

[GavinChester]

16 hours ago, Volcano637 said:

I don't really think a ptera should do any damage at all. Simply a scout. Oh and it should be able to be killed with one pike hit from a human as well as no pick ability 

I'm not sure about any no damage, I think limited damage like a Tapajera could be ok. If they buffed speed and stamina and nerfed barrel roll and reduced melee and health that would be ok. I wouldn't mind it was viable for picking up Wyvern eggs. So it would have to be faster than wild wyverns to be useful

[Volcano637]

7 minutes ago, GavinChester said:

I'm not sure about any no damage, I think limited damage like a Tapajera could be ok. If they buffed speed and stamina and nerfed barrel roll and reduced melee and health that would be ok. I wouldn't mind it was viable for picking up Wyvern eggs. So it would have to be faster than wild wyverns to be useful

That sounds good but if it goes that way you gotta get rid of Human pick ability. That bird is way too small to do it anyway 

[GavinChester]

21 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

That sounds good but if it goes that way you gotta get rid of Human pick ability. That bird is way too small to do it anyway 

agreed. I don't see a need for the ptera to pick humans. And for dinos, only the very smallest dinos, like dodo, oviraptors, lystros. I'd be happy for all picks to be taken away but for early game players picking start up dinos can be useful.

[Volcano637]

1 minute ago, GavinChester said:

agreed. I don't see a need for the ptera to pick humans. And for dinos, only the very smallest dinos, like dodo, oviraptors, lystros. I'd be happy for all picks to be taken away but for early game players picking start up dinos can be useful.

Completely true. I mean size does matter though. An argy just like an eagle would be able to pick up a deer/beaver etc. so that is not only cool but life like. I truly think a quetz would be able to carry an anky or deo just because of its size. 

Wiuld it be able to carry 10k metal? No way lol but yes the quetz should be able to pick up moderate sized Dino's.

the whole problem with all of this was breeding. I thought it was ridiculous in the beginning and I still think it is now. The nerf wouldn't even be here right now if it wasn't for breeding and I am sure the devs know this as well.

btw I am not talking about if players liked breeding or not. I don't care if they did or not. It is my opinion. The only mistake bigger than breeding was cross ark. I really  don't want to hear any input on this.

thats just how it is. I will still push my beliefs long after I stop playing the game because I will give my opinion as long as others give theirs

[FaeWraith113]

I also suspect that there is a bias in the posts beyond PvE/PvP, that being one's preferred play style.  From the first week of release, I have been in love with flying in the skies of ARK.  I built my base on top of a mountain with no ground access.  I am not knocking those who have enjoyed the ground or sea games more.  I don't chime in when it comes to how the creatures down below are utilized or "balanced" because I don't care, I loved the skies. There are fewer flyers than any other class, sea or land. I loved the game, because with work, imagination, and creativity, I could mold a flyer to fill nearly any role I needed.

In particular, I loved Pteras.  I have been breeding since month two and had my babies standing up at 366.  I had 1000 plus weight Pteras, 10,000 + hp Pteras, 300 + speed Pteras, Combat Ptera's which hit for 750+, in short, a Ptera for every occasion.  I did this all on an official PvP server.  For what it's worth, as a flyer, I never picked in combat because I learned how to kill anyone dumb enough to grab me and assumed anyone who I grabbed could do the same. I never thought a nerf was needed and still feel it mostly benefits lower skill, not very adaptable or creative players.  Just putting my bias out for people to know.  

That being said, I can see some validity to arguments that a nerf was needed. I just disagree with most of the rational.

Everything is too slow.  It is utterly ridiculous that many land creatures are now faster than any flyer but a Wyvern.  By definition, nearly every flying creature that has ever lived on this planet has greater stamina than its land bound cousins.  Think about it. Why nerf stamina other than to control how your players play the game?

I thought the original balance between flyers was pretty valid.  Quetzs could carry a ton, but flew slowly.  Argies were the jack of all trades taking a little from every category.  Pteras were fast and agile and not very sturdy.  Felt balanced, felt fair.  

Then came higher levels, then breeding, then mutation, then cross server trading.  Players like me who spent an unhealthy amount of time in the game needed something to do so some of us began making our animals better. Not our fault we were too good at it.  WC's problem wasn't the starting balance, but the fact that they didn't give us the players enough credit.  So we broke the game.  It happens in every end game scenario.

I move that WC go back to the beginning.  Look at wild tame balances. Balance the fresh tamed 150s to be the way you want and then let us improve them to fit out needs as we have.  As many have pointed out, there were plenty of other ways to address the broken aspects of aerial and air to ground combat. I am putting it this way because I don't want v3, I want to start over and have WC leave us the ability to increase every stat, including speed, with leveling.  If I want a stupid fast bird, let me have it but know if a Rex breathes on me I'm dead.  Make me make harder choices to leveling, don't take it away.

If we cannot:

Quetzals:  Are supposed to sped their lives in the air, look at the dossier. It is maddening to know this and still have to stop twice to get to the other side of the island.  Return base stam to where it was and increase speed a bit.  Say 20% from where it is now.

Argies: Still the jack of all trades, need more speed.

Tapejara: I really don't fly these so don't feel qualified to comment.

Pelagornis: The bird is mostly pointless now.  They were too slow to start, but one could fix that.  Now, unless you live near the snow anyway, why bother.  Theras get polymer almost as as well and if you pump speed, you can get to the penguins quicker that way.  Give them speed and put the stamina back.

Pteranadon: Drop the pick ability and increase it's base speed by 50%-75%. Put the stamina back where it was.  Perhaps drop health 20% or so if you make it so we don't have to land every 700 metres.  Also, though I hate it, the weight reduction feels about right if you want to make it the quick scout.  Also, get rid of the cool down for the barrel roll  but maybe get rid of the "jump ahead" feature of the roll. I always thought the roll was for fighting, not going quick.

Wyvern: Y'all really botched this one too WC.  You have said you want the Wyvern to be the king of the skies, a fearsome mount.  Now, you land everywhere because of stamina and heaven help you if you need to fight something.  Three to five breaths and you're out, that's if you're on the ground.  Ridiculous.  Period.  I don't even know how to tell you to fix that one.  Take it back to where it was and try again please.

Two things.  If you want people to drive Honda Accords, Toyota Forerunners, and Chevy Malibus, you don't do it by making Ferrari and Lamborghini put only four cylinder engines in their cars.  If you want me to play on the ground, give me a better reason to do so. Please don't try to disincentiveize my aerial pursuits. 

 As a closing thought, look at horses.  Today the gamut runs from the Shetland Pony on one end, to the Clydesdale on the other.  If you want endurance, try an American Quarter Horse.  If speed is your thing, the Thoroughbred. Need a horse for swampy ground? They got a breed for that.  My point is that breeding, raising, and training an animal can produce very different things from the same original root stock.  I loved that I could too in the game.  I know game designers need to balance things as they see fit but when a "nerf" takes away dimensions from an animal, like the ability to level speed, you decrease a good deal of the appeal for some of your player base.  When game mechanics are broken, I would suggest that you look deeper, communicate your intentions and rational better, and perhaps give a bit more credence to the thoughts of your end-game players.  Thanks.

[Naerah(Qc)]

2 hours ago, FaeWraith113 said:

Thanks. (i chopped the rest for it's size)

I agree with mostly everything that you said, If they want the flyer to face danger, add danger in the sky. They were going too fast? Cap the amount of point we can put into speed, don't remove the complete feature.    

[THELILASSASSIN]

were not that far apart , I just want to avoid the cancer but have to land once so i can make it and its near titanboas and scary stuff @GP

[ShakerDazzy]

Maybe a compromise could be the quetz could be slow on take off then gather speed gradually as it flies...like the bear picks up speed as it runs? (please note the question mark).

[Currahee]

The only thing about the nerf that gets me is the wasted points in fliers that now I'd like to move into stamina. Like I had a line of pteras I bred for weight and damage, weights good on it still but I don't care to use them as a Kill-Everything-On-The-Island dino anymore so it'd be nice to put all those points into stamina instead.

Dino Mindwipe tonic!

[GavinChester]

On 5/3/2017 at 0:27 AM, Currahee said:

The only thing about the nerf that gets me is the wasted points in fliers that now I'd like to move into stamina. Like I had a line of pteras I bred for weight and damage, weights good on it still but I don't care to use them as a Kill-Everything-On-The-Island dino anymore so it'd be nice to put all those points into stamina instead.

Dino Mindwipe tonic!

The problem is after the nerf, whilst we got to reallocate some of speed points into other area but all of our flyers lost levels, including our wyverns. So my 160 egg were less than 160 after the nerf, which is plain crazy. So does that mean if I hatch another 160 post the patch I will be able to level higher with impoved stats? 

It would be nice if we could choose to upgrade speed with a hard cap but I feel that all that breeding we did to introduce higher and higher stats has gone somewhat to waste.

[GavinChester]

So we've all had a chance to play a little longer with the nerfed flyers and this is what I've found. It's really interesting that this was supposed to bring balance and define the roles between each bird, what it has actually done is reduce the birds I use. I used to use everything now I only use the wyvern.

Quetzal - almost never use, only for catch other quetzal and for loading up 5 or so dinos on a platform for transport. I don't bother for metal runs because I can't stand how slow it is. I used to use it regularly for metal runs and large transport loads. Also off topic getting rid of its sound was possibly the worst thing that WC has done to this game.

Pteradon - rarely use. Just for short/fast trips where no danger is involved. I used to use this to get across the map, for scouting, occasionally for milk runs, small/quick transport

Argie - never use - too slow for my liking. I used to love this bird, for medium load transport and for getting eggs and milk runs. Now it is a good base ornament. I don't see any value in this bird now as is.

Tapajera - rarely use, only for specialist purpose of carrying tribemates or getting deliveries to my quetzal if I'm taming on it. It's not terrible but its not great either. I used to use them quite a bit but it hardly gets out.

Wyvern - I use this all the time. I used to get around, I use it for medium sized transport loads, I use it to fly other dinos around, I use it for harvesting runs for metal, crystal, etc, I use when taming, I use it to scout, I use it to kill. All of this actually makes me really dissapointed because I used to use all my dinos and now I just have one. This nerf has made all my other birds obsolete and pre-nerf this was not the case at all.

[myksta0121]

4 minutes ago, GavinChester said:

So we've all had a chance to play a little longer with the nerfed flyers and this is what I've found. It's really interesting that this was supposed to bring balance and define the roles between each bird, what it has actually done is reduce the birds I use. I used to use everything now I only use the wyvern.

Quetzal - almost never use, only for catch other quetzal and for loading up 5 or so dinos on a platform for transport. I don't bother for metal runs because I can't stand how slow it is. I used to use it regularly for metal runs and large transport loads. Also off topic getting rid of its sound was possibly the worst thing that WC has done to this game.

Pteradon - rarely use. Just for short/fast trips where no danger is involved. I used to use this to get across the map, for scouting, occasionally for milk runs, small/quick transport

Argie - never use - too slow for my liking. I used to love this bird, for medium load transport and for getting eggs and milk runs. Now it is a good base ornament. I don't see any value in this bird now as is.

Tapajera - rarely use, only for specialist purpose of carrying tribemates or getting deliveries to my quetzal if I'm taming on it. It's not terrible but its not great either. I used to use them quite a bit but it hardly gets out.

Wyvern - I use this all the time. I used to get around, I use it for medium sized transport loads, I use it to fly other dinos around, I use it for harvesting runs for metal, crystal, etc, I use when taming, I use it to scout, I use it to kill. All of this actually makes me really dissapointed because I used to use all my dinos and now I just have one. This nerf has made all my other birds obsolete and pre-nerf this was not the case at all.

Yeah i agree i think quetzals need a speed buff as do argies and as you state its now go wyvern or go home.

[LordVargar]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 11:26 PM, Volcano637 said:

Thank you for making a productive thread. Even though I like things the way they are right now, I still like seeing people being proactive and constructive. Rep for that.

and this is how you get a pro nerf guy to give rep to an anti nerf guy ?

And rep points for keeping the positivity flowing Volcano (no pun intended)  Way to be a positive role model That is what we need more of. Well done indeed

[Volcano637]

11 minutes ago, LordVargar said:

And rep points for keeping the positivity flowing Volcano (no pun intended)  Way to be a positive role model That is what we need more of. Well done indeed

Regardless of how I feel about certain things, I will lay my differences aside. I am here more for the community than myself. 

? thank you for also being one of those people.