flyer nerf

[NONE]

I think this is one of those good in theory, bad in practice situations.

[szabiferi]

16 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

2. Just definitely could not be possible. Giving some people the classic flyers and other not? That would make too many people mad. Not just that but if they didn't do it that way then that would mean they would have to make more servers. 

I think the one way they could get an accurate account of what people want would be an in game survey. The only thing is that means spending more time on something else other than the nerf(which is doesn't seem high on the list anyway).

kayd said they are working on it. The only thing to do now is be patient. I know it's hard but anything else that gets demanded will just end up making it take even longer

Well... there are hundreds of servers, and since NO ONE is forbidden to go on a server with the old fliers, I don't see why anyone could be upset on the possibility to chose.

The only thing what needed to DISABLE cross transfer between classic and balanced nerfed servers, but thats definitly possible as they could do it on the Notame experimental ones.

What else would be the best indicator of what people want if not this?

Just fire up 10 wiped nerfed servers, 10 with fliers speed leveling enabled, give a pinned topic for it as in case of the notame, and take a look 2 weeks later on the server population. People will vote by just simply playing on the servers...

[Volcano637]

Just now, szabiferi said:

Well... there are hundreds of servers, and since NO ONE is forbidden to go on a server with the old fliers, I don't see why anyone could be upset on the possibility to chose.

The only thing what needed to DISABLE cross transfer between classic and balanced nerfed servers, but thats definitly possible as they could do it on the Notame experimental ones.

What else would be the best indicator of what people want if not this?

Just fire up 10 wiped nerfed servers, 10 with fliers speed leveling enabled, give a pinned topic for it as in case of the notame, and take a look 2 weeks later on the server population. People will vote by just simply playing on the servers...

They would have to be closed off servers. If you were able to take classic fliers onto a server without them that would cause a very huge imbalance and yes that would make a lot of people mad. I get what you are saying but even if they did bring the classic flyers over and traded with others then the whole game would just be reverted. That exactly why the option could not happen in anyway. Unless, it was on a closed cluster.

but the thing is that still wouldn't be accurate. People are bored in general even without the flier nerf. If they put up new servers or just wipe existing ones for that purpose everyone will flock to it because everyone is looking for new servers. 

The bottom line is everyone wants something new so new servers will be over populated no matter what they are or what the theme is

[szabiferi]

23 minutes ago, NONE said:

I think this is one of those good in theory, bad in practice situations.

WEll.. Im on a project where we are working on am e-commerce website making million dollars of revenue (growing year by year), and the whole thing is based on AB test.

The business folks just come up with their ideas (simple ones like change the buy button color, rearrange the page, put on some encouraging text etc etc) and we make the tests for that. Then we just release both versions to the public and simply just watch what happens.

And it turns out, those business folks sometimes make bad ideas but these are appear in hard statistical numbers. No theory crafting, no guessing by just simply watching the active number of customers...

My problem with WC that

1. Their approach show like they DONT THINK they can make bad decisions (it does not matter what they say - what they DO is a better indicator). And people saying "this is their game" just make this worse...

2. They dont have effective measurement system in the game, what could generate data to make proper investigation and decision. I'm 99% sure of this, because anyone can run a server and there is no suspicious traffic, reporting, anything. Man, even the server logs do not allow the admin to track any player activity, you cant even find out basic info like player numbers, dino numbers as a server without 3rd party apps.

 

I do like Ark, overall im satisified with WC because they made a really good game, but there is a room for improvement.

[szabiferi]

7 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

They would have to be closed off servers. If you were able to take classic fliers onto a server without them that would cause a very huge imbalance and yes that would make a lot of people mad. I get what you are saying but even if they did bring the classic flyers over and traded with others then the whole game would just be reverted. That exactly why the option could not happen in anyway. Unless, it was on a closed cluster.

but the thing is that still wouldn't be accurate. People are bored in general even without the flier nerf. If they put up new servers or just wipe existing ones for that purpose everyone will flock to it because everyone is looking for new servers. 

The bottom line is everyone wants something new so new servers will be over populated no matter what they are or what the theme is

1. "They would have to be closed off servers"  - I agree, thats why I wrote transfers should be disabled.

2. IF everything is the same on the new servers EXCEPT the fliers, and you see population difference on them, could you draw a conclusion? Yes you could, because it is very easy. Even if both versions are popular, that would be a good indicator.

But I cant imagine, they can make proper decision just sitting in a meeting room, and watching their spreadsheet with the bird stats.. for 1.5 months by now... with minimal efforts with 20 servers they could have proper data by now... curently thy have NO stats, apart from steam player statistics, what is inadequate to measure ANYTHING apart from overal player satisfaction. What was NOT growing as they admitted ("player number stable").

[KingGalahad]

6 hours ago, szabiferi said:

WEll...

1. at least the other side attempted to do unofficial votes (1000+ people) with clear results. Also there were voting topics as well - but every single time when these clearly shown the OPPOSITE what the pronerf people wish, the "vocal minority" card is played. 

2. Since you dont know what WOULD BE the player numbers WITHOUT the flier nerf, referring to it is not a valid AB test,because there is no control group. It would be a proper test if the devs would run official servers WITH and WITHOUT flier nerf and would take a look on the actual population. 

3. The classic flier mod subs

4.  The player number indicates the overall opinion of the people on the WHOLE GAME. I still play the game, because I like it as whole, but I dont like the flier nerf regardless I keep playing. I'm pretty sure there are things in the game what YOU DONT LIKE, but that does not mean you will abandon the game. Please dont treat all the people against the flier nerf like the doomsday prophets - I never said the flier nerf will kill the game what some hysterical people does, but it is a feature I still dont see improving my game experience. 

5. " daily player counts were stable" - that means the game didnt become better. So the  claim on flier nerf improves gameplay is false. It just didnt ruin the game to the extent where people leave it...

 

I find it funny when the pro-nerf side uses the "vocal minority" since everyone I have talked with and gamed with absolutely hates this nerf, and the "vocal minority" is the few people here on the forums that are pro-nerf.

 

As for the classic flyer mod. Yes, it isn't a perfect metric for judging the hate of the flyer mod, but it does give the impression that there are a lot of people out there that dislike the nerf. I'm sure the reason wildcard doesn't want to do a poll is that the results would not go in their favour.

[YUSHOETMI]

14 minutes ago, KingGalahad said:

I find it funny when the pro-nerf side uses the "vocal minority" since everyone I have talked with and gamed with absolutely hates this nerf, and the "vocal minority" is the few people here on the forums that are pro-nerf.

 

As for the classic flyer mod. Yes, it isn't a perfect metric for judging the hate of the flyer mod, but it does give the impression that there are a lot of people out there that dislike the nerf. I'm sure the reason wildcard doesn't want to do a poll is that the results would not go in their favour.

Orrrrrrr the majority are just not all that vocal and don't actually care to come to the forums and complain because they actually like the nerf? Classic flyer mod means jack poop for statistics, I have it downloaded somewhere because a server I frequented decided to install it, i'm pro nerf so how many others who don't care for pre nerf flyers have been roped into downloading it?

[Awakatanka]

37 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Orrrrrrr the majority are just not all that vocal and don't actually care to come to the forums and complain because they actually like the nerf? Classic flyer mod means jack poop for statistics, I have it downloaded somewhere because a server I frequented decided to install it, i'm pro nerf so how many others who don't care for pre nerf flyers have been roped into downloading it?

this logic you can also turn around. lot of players just play but do not post and not like the nerf. only sollution make a vote at login in the game.  then evey player have to vote before playing but then you know how your player base feels about the state of this nerf. 

[KingGalahad]

46 minutes ago, YUSHOETMI said:

Orrrrrrr the majority are just not all that vocal and don't actually care to come to the forums and complain because they actually like the nerf? 

Like I said, all the people I have talked to (on the game) dislike the nerf. The only place I have really found people that are pro-nerf is here on the forums... (and there only seems to be a vocal minority here even)

[Hydrax]

Well.. we got the nerf.. they wont change it back , the only thing we have to do is to get used to this ....we all can cry here to bring back the flyers but they wont...most of my flyers we're lv 145+ tames.. they nerfed and all my fly dinos are 230 with pretty much a lot of lvls added...30-35 lvls gone.. 

[Ikaros]

We're STILL talking about this? Alright.

Just want to add that saying

"This update ruined my _______. My_______ used to be so good but now it's useless. I spent ______ hours doing ______ for nothing. Stupid dev"

 

Is NOT a good or valid excuse for disliking an update in my eyes. I also have little care for people who's opinions disagree with mine, but i try to be as respectful as possible about it.

I'm a hypocrite as well so take that at face value.

 

I was flying some wyverns and argies the other day and you can still nearly go corner to corner of the map on decent bred creatures, without sprinting.

You should not be able to cross more than 1/4th the ark distance without landing, being able to fly is a flying creatures special role, not speed, not stamina and the game should reflect that.

 

What they should do is diminishing returns on flyers upgrades for speed and stamina. Each point of a stat Gives half as much as the last, or something like that don't feel like doing math.

 

 

[mighty]

2 hours ago, Hydrax said:

Well.. we got the nerf.. they wont change it back , the only thing we have to do is to get used to this ....we all can cry here to bring back the flyers but they wont...most of my flyers we're lv 145+ tames.. they nerfed and all my fly dinos are 230 with pretty much a lot of lvls added...30-35 lvls gone.. 

They won't leave them how they are either, u can bet there will be more adjustment/improvement before release.

[DeadZeddicious]

I just want them to re allocate our movement speed "wasted" stats back into the other stats. What is the point of having "wasted" stats?

[KingGalahad]

7 hours ago, Hydrax said:

Well.. we got the nerf.. they wont change it back , the only thing we have to do is to get used to this ....we all can cry here to bring back the flyers but they wont...most of my flyers we're lv 145+ tames.. they nerfed and all my fly dinos are 230 with pretty much a lot of lvls added...30-35 lvls gone.. 

No, they won't change it back, but at least they could change it to something a lot more reasonable.

 

The Squeaky wheel gets the grease. We just have to make sure they hear us on this issue.

[CaptoBraunch]

I feel like capping the amount of times you can level speed would've been far more appropriate. How the raptor are you supposed to farm milk and eggs now, already have wyverns? Thats Paradoxical

[ciabattaroll]

9 minutes ago, CaptoBraunch said:

I feel like capping the amount of times you can level speed would've been far more appropriate. How the raptor are you supposed to farm milk and eggs now, already have wyverns? Thats Paradoxical

Players have managed to find ways to get milk and eggs without having to use wyverns. Heck, without flyers even.

[GavinChester]

18 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Players have managed to find ways to get milk and eggs without having to use wyverns. Heck, without flyers even.

Whilst I agree there are options out there for getting milk but there's no way that I'm taking my Thyla anywhere near the scar. For a solo player, your best bet is to use a wyvern with the same type as the female you lure out. It would be hard to do on a pt now, a few hits from the wyvern and you are toast. Very very difficult for a new player.

We use a high end giga with an ascendant saddle and either get it to tank a wyvern whilst the other player tranqs it or we kill an alpha but that is not a viable option for most players. I think getting milk and raising wyvern shouldn't be left to the minority.

[CaptoBraunch]

26 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Players have managed to find ways to get milk and eggs without having to use wyverns. Heck, without flyers even.

Sure its possible. Doesn't make it any less of a dumb move on the devs part, just shows how out of touch with their own community they are. 

[ciabattaroll]

1 minute ago, CaptoBraunch said:

Sure its possible. Doesn't make it any less of a dumb move on the devs part, just shows how out of touch with their own community they are. 

I fail to see how making the acquisition of an endgame creature a bit more than just "fly in and fly out" as being out of touch.

[Shrekasaurus]

20 minutes ago, GavinChester said:

Whilst I agree there are options out there for getting milk but there's no way that I'm taking my Thyla anywhere near the scar. For a solo player, your best bet is to use a wyvern with the same type as the female you lure out. It would be hard to do on a pt now, a few hits from the wyvern and you are toast. Very very difficult for a new player.

We use a high end giga with an ascendant saddle and either get it to tank a wyvern whilst the other player tranqs it or we kill an alpha but that is not a viable option for most players. I think getting milk and raising wyvern shouldn't be left to the minority.

 

11 minutes ago, CaptoBraunch said:

Sure its possible. Doesn't make it any less of a dumb move on the devs part, just shows how out of touch with their own community they are. 

 

9 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

I fail to see how making the acquisition of an endgame creature a bit more than just "fly in and fly out" as being out of touch.

I'm a solo player, and I look forward to finding new strategies to acquire Wyvern eggs. I'm thinking of using my Thyla, as it's incredibly powerful. Maybe getting a Rock Golem to throw rocks at the Wyverns would work...

[CaptoBraunch]

14 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

I fail to see how making the acquisition of an endgame creature a bit more than just "fly in and fly out" as being out of touch.

Because All the transfercancer megatribes aren't giving up their 10+ wyverns. Now you have to be a fairly large tribe with multiple members to even  think about getting eggs. They will be able to bully small tribes even harder now, as the egg snatching is now a huge timesink. Its not like the combat is actually fun, you'll just be mashing your hitboxes into it, or sniping it while it chews on a tank. Forget kiting lol. This is a huge window for an enemy tribe to pop over, melt you all and go back to organizing their tek undies. Every patch we lose more and more tools against oppressive no-life megatribes. 

[ciabattaroll]

5 minutes ago, CaptoBraunch said:

Because All the transfercancer megatribes aren't giving up their 10+ wyverns. Now you have to be a fairly large tribe with multiple members to even  think about getting eggs. They will be able to bully small tribes even harder now, as the egg snatching is now a huge timesink. Its not like the combat is actually fun, you'll just be mashing your hitboxes into it, or sniping it while it chews on a tank. Forget kiting lol. This is a huge window for an enemy tribe to pop over, melt you all and go back to organizing their tek undies. Every patch we lose more and more tools against oppressive no-life megatribes. 

That sounds less and less an issue about flyers and more about the mentality of human beings, particularly those in mega tribes.

[CaptoBraunch]

Just now, ciabattaroll said:

That sounds less and less an issue about flyers and more about the mentality of human beings, particularly those in mega tribes.

Well you're right, people being poopty isn't WC's fault, but they enable the pooptiness with their every action. They show no incentive towards making newcomers/ casual players fel welcome. Being a jerk doesn't have to be quite so rewarding, but thats the world your precious overlords have allowed to exist.

The flyer nerf hurts everyone, although i agree a speed cap was needed, the nerf bat hit too hard. The game is straight tumorsauce on official servers, and this is one example of intelligence being nerfed and playtime/tribe size being "buffed" so to speak. Soon it will truly be impossible to be in a solo or even average sized tribe. We lose more tools each patch, fact. While raw numbers continues to be more and more dominant over the other gameplay aspects. Many people are leaving, and for good reason. If there was a physical version on console, i guarantee it'd be going for 5 bucks on Amazon 

[Shrekasaurus]

1 minute ago, CaptoBraunch said:

Well you're right, people being poopty isn't WC's fault, but they enable the pooptiness with their every action. They show no incentive towards making newcomers/ casual players fel welcome. Being a jerk doesn't have to be quite so rewarding, but thats the world your precious overlords have allowed to exist.

The flyer nerf hurts everyone, although i agree a speed cap was needed, the nerf bat hit too hard. The game is straight tumorsauce on official servers, and this is one example of intelligence being nerfed and playtime/tribe size being "buffed" so to speak. Soon it will truly be impossible to be in a solo or even average sized tribe. We lose more tools each patch, fact. While raw numbers continues to be more and more dominant over the other gameplay aspects. Many people are leaving, and for good reason. If there was a physical version on console, i guarantee it'd be going for 5 bucks on Amazon 

You may feel a little better about the fliers once the land creatures are more traversable.

[CaptoBraunch]

Frog meta does tickle my raptor quite nicely  lystrosaurus. (just wanted to see what lystrosaurus gets censored to, not calling anyone a lystrosaurus )