People gotta stop thinking pve is different from pvp

[Chronosphere]

please everyone of you that play pve thinks that you are a special snowflake, please just stop that mentality that flyer on pve shouldnt be affected like holy christ you cant be serious too demand that. silliest thing  ive ever heard and you dont even realize that?  have a nice day. 

 

PVE is just like pvp , and it should be without the getting wiped out every night you logoff..

pve no worries,

pvp all the worries,  = fliers should stay the same both modes. nothing else nothing more. what iwas saying for those whom didnt understand, dont be spoiled becus u play pve and feel like been treated otherwise.

[rawsh]

hm, having played both, they are a lot different, starting with:

our Birds/kapro/mega/tuso cant grab stuff !!! , nah joke aside,

The Premise:

On PvP, you are suspicious, you have to be, i know a lot of people who will not engage in chat on a PvP server to not make themselves known, or even worse a target, you are almost never gonna see someone helping out some other player because its just too risky, 

Most PvE servers ive seen have active chats and community, how friendly people react depends on how you behave your name is your worth, if you behave like a sausage you gonna pretty much play singleplayer,  noones gonna help you out, or trade with you, therefore many rageheads and kiddies lose interest after a few weeks.

 

The Scale:

On PvP any Building i build has to be defensible this leads to small buildings defensible by turrets, if i dont want my tames to block my own turrets or be target for picking i have to build Barns for all of them.

A bigger Base also makes you a Target, wich makes it almost impossible to get a decent stock of eggs and Kibble for your Tames.

On Pve i can build however the raptor i want, as long as wandering dinos cant get in its fine, resulting in some Beautiful(as beautiful as it gets in ark...) Buildings with a vast amount of designs and shapes, openair Eggfarms are possible aswell allowing you to actually aquire the eggs needed to perfect tame whatever you need.

 

The Trading:

On PvP: i wanted to buy some Carrots once on a pvp server..... and while this might be an extreme variant that experience showed me, you will never have a flourishing Trade on a PvP server unless amongst allies, and why would they trade with others in the end it makes sense not to, but a lot gets lost for me in that.

On Pve: well there will always be those who just "cant give away" their best stats, but usually people are much more willing AND able to trade, Dinos Blueprints, Stats the Trade is on, and i love it. havent farmed in weeks, metal just keeps coming my way. 

 

The Challenge:

On PvP you always have to watch your back, in the beginning you might run from the same predators as PvE players, but that soon changes, and tbh nothing really beats the thrill of being seen by a player and actually engaging in a fight, sadly i experienced that about twice, the rest were mostly deaths from the shrubs/the air/a giga, but all cynicism aside PvP obviously is the more challenging mode, no AI will ever be as dangerous as some sausagehead with a club,

On Pve you make your own challenge, exploring caves fighting bosses, Titans, Gigas, after a certain amount of play you should be save enough at home to not worry all the time, and even tho youll lose the occational animal to bugs or idiocy, you spend your time preparing for the next "thing", or have fun maintaining your base (its ZEN man!)

 

The Breeding:

On PvP: i honestly never bothered with breeding, the idea of spending DAYS on a Dino that just ends up getting dummied by someone while im sleeping was appalling to me,

On PvE: well by now ive pretty much done em all from wyverns on SE, to 100% Gigas, collecting and combining stats, making your next breed just THAT much better, seeing those breed babys in action, just nothing like it really, and with the Mutation system and aquatic breeding i see loads of nerd fun ahead of me (i have a Greenfaced gigantopethicus for fukssake!)  

 

i could go on but really no point, by now PvP and PvE are just extremely different in my opinion resulting in nerfs having vastly different effects, realize that?, have a nice day

[Smash]

You've highlighted some differences but none of that explain why you need dinos to be balanced differently, and some of them aren't really differences anyway.  People explore the caves etc in PVP just as much as PvE (They have good loot) and if you think no-one breeds in PvP then I think you haven't done that much of it

[rawsh]

3 minutes ago, Smash said:

You've highlighted some differences but none of that explain why you need dinos to be balanced differently, and some of them aren't really differences anyway.  People explore the caves etc in PVP just as much as PvE (They have good loot) and if you think no-one breeds in PvP then I think you haven't done that much of it

well i thought that was obvious as people have stated it over and over, while fast fliers are an obvious problem in pvp, due to turrets not targeting them correctly if they approach too fast, and picking beeing too overpowered on a fast flier,  many pve players me included dont see that problem on pve. and im sorry i dont buy the "skiping content" or "avoiding challenge" arguments, that might apply to a fringe group of midgame-progression-player whose fliers are too weak to defend themselfes on the ground,

if there was anyone actually analyzing the impacts such a nerf could possibly have on each PvP and PvE, there would have been a seperate nerf, but here, and on many of the nerfs and implementations in the past i have to conclude: PvE loses again, 

[hsaK]

9 minutes ago, Smash said:

You've highlighted some differences but none of that explain why you need dinos to be balanced differently, and some of them aren't really differences anyway.  People explore the caves etc in PVP just as much as PvE (They have good loot) and if you think no-one breeds in PvP then I think you haven't done that much of it

Oh well, idk but on most PvP Servers i visited so far, all caves which are slightly interesting to go in there are blocked anyways by server alpha. So thats not a valid point. The community and the feeling on PvE Servers is extremely different to PvP Servers. And as @rawsh suggests, this nerf is heavy handed from a single PvP oriented side. I haven't seem a _valid_ reason, why PvE really needed that nerf so far. But i m open, give me a real reason.

[10,000 Jelly Doughnuts]

6 hours ago, rawsh said:

i could go on but really no point, by now PvP and PvE are just extremely different in my opinion resulting in nerfs having vastly different effects, realize that?, have a nice day

If you want a mix of PvP and PvE try the official ORP servers if you are on PC. PvE chatting, PvP grabbing, PvE trading, but still have to keep an eye out.

I should really stop promoting these ORP servers until we get more. ATM we only have 4 island and 4 Scorched servers. Don't think consoles even have official ORP servers 

[Crawlingshadow]

True

[Shrekasaurus]

I thought the whole point of having the 2 game modes was the differences between them?

[QuantumReaper]

op has no idea what hes talking about they are obliviously 2 different game modes. 

[ciabattaroll]

12 hours ago, Smash said:

You've highlighted some differences but none of that explain why you need dinos to be balanced differently, and some of them aren't really differences anyway.  People explore the caves etc in PVP just as much as PvE (They have good loot) and if you think no-one breeds in PvP then I think you haven't done that much of it

There's also a balance aspect to be had about it; pros and cons so to say. I mean, lets look at the cons on the various means of travel.

Land dinos : their big cons are that they are prone to having to navigate around obstacles, and are increasingly being faced with threats that can dismount the rider and leave them prone to the dangers of the land.

Bed/Sleeping bag : these might be the fastest means of travelling around the land, but the destinations are fixed points that you have to set up beforehand. Furthermore usage of this means of travel constantly leaves you naked. This means you'll have to have equipment stored at each point you travel to, and have to stow equipment everytime you depart a location.

Aquatic dinos : limited to waterways and the oceans, with some unable to cross the inner rivers due to their size

Tek teleporter : requires having defeated the boss that holds the tekgram for it before even being able to use it, and requires a scaling cost of element shards in order to use. Also requires placement like beds and sleeping bags.

Flyers : ???

[10,000 Jelly Doughnuts]

15 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Flyers : ???

Slower than dead lice now.
 

[Isho]

This nerf basically changed the PVP meta without doing anything for PVE but increase time for flyers.. Which is why PVE players feel like they received the short end of the stick. Also, how is it not different when the difference is in the names themselves??? Good lord, I've seen some terrible threads on this forum, but yours is right up there.

[Moodster1986]

51 minutes ago, Isho said:

This nerf basically changed the PVP meta without doing anything for PVE but increase time for flyers.. Which is why PVE players feel like they received the short end of the stick. Also, how is it not different when the difference is in the names themselves??? Good lord, I've seen some terrible threads on this forum, but yours is right up there.

How is it very much different other then not having to worry as much about other players....does pvp not deal with everything pve in the game just like pve Or does pve have hidden things idk about that doesnt happen in pvp....

you can design nice looking building in pvp... most people just dont because the extra resorces to defend it properly are not worth it in the end...

Yes trading does happen in pvp...actually one of the best ways to get on an alpha or bigger tribes good side is to trade with them and make yourself helpfull enough that they want you to be around.

Just like pve it all depends on the server....some pvp servers have alphas that want to rule and not let others do anything...some pve servers people pillar off huge chuncks of land so no one builds anywhere near them...some pvp severs have trolls everwhere..so do pve servers...

In pve i used to use taming boats to get dinos and move them to my base....i use a very similar setup in pvp alot of the time befor i have a quetz..actually had i not played pve with no dino pickup i may never have started using that in pvp...

Please tell me whats sooo different because having played bolth all i see is pve doesnt worry about other people as much as pvp..

[Isho]

10 minutes ago, Moodster1986 said:

How is it very much different other then not having to worry as much about other players....does pvp not deal with everything pve in the game just like pve Or does pve have hidden things idk about that doesnt happen in pvp....

you can design nice looking building in pvp... most people just dont because the extra resorces to defend it properly are not worth it in the end...

Yes trading does happen in pvp...actually one of the best ways to get on an alpha or bigger tribes good side is to trade with them and make yourself helpfull enough that they want you to be around.

Just like pve it all depends on the server....some pvp servers have alphas that want to rule and not let others do anything...some pve servers people pillar off huge chuncks of land so no one builds anywhere near them...some pvp severs have trolls everwhere..so do pve servers...

Please tell me whats sooo different because having played bolth all i see is pve doesnt worry about other people as much as pvp..

You literally just answered your question in one sentence.

"Please tell me whats sooo different because having played bolth all i see is pve doesnt worry about other people as much as pvp."

I also never said that it is very much different, its just different. Stop putting words in my mouth and read more carefully next time.

What I said was that this nerf affected the PVP meta the most, which is not present in PVE. Everything besides player vs player combat is the same between the two modes, but thats not what this nerf balanced at all. In a strictly non-combat gameplay, it only increased travel time with your mount by 5 minutes.

 

[Wazzamaniac]

They could've changed flyers in ways that impact pvp more, since pve didn't need the speed nerf. They could've affected flyer health a lot more, so you don't have tank birds and actually have squishy flyers like they should be, instead of speed. They could've altered player pickup and barrel roll exclusively on the faster pteranodons so that it's not a "epic giga vs noob on a pteranodon grabbing you" fight.(They did change carry weight if im not mistaken?)

But no, it was speed and stamina, making the game much grindier than it already is, because land haulers are not viable (bad pathing, movement and speed/carry weight ratio). They should have focused more on making land mounts more attractive before making flyers repulsive. I think it's the cart before the horse scenario, and on pve where hauling is more important than fighting (and maybe pvp when preparing for raids), the negative effect is much more noticeable which is why us pve'ers feel affected the most.

And then there's the fact where a lot of the newer dinos get their abilies disabled, like grab and flyer pickup, and make us feel like we get less preferential treatment because we get crippled dinos that don't have an alterate use. Like really, who actually uses a megalosaurus? Pegomastax? Kaprosuchus? Troodon? Not to mention items that have had specific nerfs for PVE purposes, such as guns doing less damage to wild dinos, gas grenades doing nothing, bear traps working for only a few seconds... I can go on and on. Tek armor? Cool but just a vanity item on PVE, nothing challenging enough to use it on and it's banned in boss arenas.

PVE is an afterthought.

[Moodster1986]

4 minutes ago, Isho said:

You literally just answered your question in one sentence.

"Please tell me whats sooo different because having played bolth all i see is pve doesnt worry about other people as much as pvp."

I also never said that it is very much different, its just different. Stop putting words in my mouth and read more carefully next time.

What I said was that this nerf affected the PVP meta the most, which is not present in PVE. Everything besides player vs player combat is the same between the two modes, but thats not what this nerf balanced at all. In a strictly non-combat gameplay, it only increased travel time with your mount by 5 minutes.

 

But there isnt a big enough difference between pvp and pve to need to make pve and pvp have different stats or mount speeds..which is ultimatly what this tread is trying to get across...

[Isho]

Just now, Moodster1986 said:

But there isnt a big enough difference between pvp and pve to need to make pve and pvp have different stats or mount speeds..which is ultimatly what this tread is trying to get across...

Except it should, which is also why I disagree with the OP. Why should one mode get the same treatment when it only benefits the other? Besides, the difference between players vs player combat and players vs environment is pretty large when it comes to balancing... If they disabled grabbing on PVP like they did PVE, would you use the same lame argument that there isnt a big enough difference? Come on now...

[Moodster1986]

5 minutes ago, Isho said:

Except it should, which is also why I disagree with the OP. Why should one mode get the same treatment when it only benefits the other? Besides, the difference between players vs player combat and players vs environment is pretty large when it comes to balancing... If they disabled grabbing on PVP like they did PVE, would you use the same lame argument that there isnt a big enough difference? Come on now...

Idk how to tell you this...but...If they disabled pickup in pvp then the 2 modes would be even closer to the same....so..... i would actually use the same argument 

[Isho]

7 minutes ago, Moodster1986 said:

If they disabled pickup in pvp then the 2 modes would be even closer to the same so i would actually use the same argument lmao

That argument was not meant in a literal sense, thanks for completely missing the point. If they patched something that was focused on balancing an issue for PVE that affected the PVP meta, then the same argument could be used. The point is that the nerf did not balance anything in terms of PVE playstyle, just PVP. Which is why PVE players feel like they should patch it differently. I think this should be obvious by now.

[Moodster1986]

4 minutes ago, Isho said:

That argument was not meant in a literal sense, thanks for completely missing the point. The point is that the nerf did not balance anything in terms of PVE playstyle, just PVP. Which is why PVE players feel like they should patch it differently. I think this should be obvious by now.

The only way i would ever agree that pve and pvp need to be balanced different...would be if pve was nerfed even more then pvp (longer stamina recharge less speed)  because players arnt trying to kill you in pve...only envirment pve people seem sooo keen on wanting to avoid completly

[Wazzamaniac]

3 minutes ago, Moodster1986 said:

The only way i would ever agree that pve and pvp need to be balanced different...would be if pve was nerfed even more then pvp (longer stamina recharge less speed)  because players arnt trying to kill you in pve...only envirment pve people seem sooo keen on wanting to avoid completly

The game is a massive grind. That would be a targeted nerf that benefits no one and only makes the game less fun. People have lives and would rather not have to spend hours just to move stuff around.

People are complaining about OP flyers on PVP, never on PVE. Your argument seems a little biased here.

[TurtleyTurtle]

yaaa, i dont agree. but wotever 8(

[Isho]

10 minutes ago, Moodster1986 said:

The only way i would ever agree that pve and pvp need to be balanced different...would be if pve was nerfed even more then pvp (longer stamina recharge less speed)  because players arnt trying to kill you in pve...only envirment pve people seem sooo keen on wanting to avoid completly

Yes lets balance it the wrong way by making it more grindier and time consuming.... Its hilarious when you assume that everyone use flyers to avoid the Environment, when you could basically do the same with any Carnivor tame... The problem lies with the wild dino's and how horrible the AI is. Nerfing flyer's to a point where they're completely useless is not a way to fix things. I am starting to believe that you're a fresh player based on your poorly developed arguments.

[Ulta]

I like many here also heavily disagree with the OP (I mean come on your whole statement was whiney). It asn't jsut PVE peopel who whined about the flyer nerf and you know it.

I feel there is a huge enough difference. Not having to worry about other players (As much) is a HUGE difference. When you reach endgame, there actually is not much of anything to do on PvE (sadly), while you guys in PvP still got other players to worry about to keep you fresh.

This is WHY us PVE'er's want PVE treated differently. Because WC seems to heavily favor the PVP side of their game (I mean it is what they advertise to a degree), they focus mostly on that and either are not realizing, or just don't care that they can make the PVE side of ARK great as well, if they'd just look at it and give us some extra differences.

Personally I will not play any sort of PVP official on ARK until they make Primal Survival

[Ulta]

12 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

The game is a massive grind. That would be a targeted nerf that benefits no one and only makes the game less fun. People have lives and would rather not have to spend hours just to move stuff around.

People are complaining about OP flyers on PVP, never on PVE. Your argument seems a little biased here.

You are joking right? PVe doesn't need a NERF. What it needs is harder wild dino's, and a flyer that actually attacks bases and tames (not the wyvern, something else that flies in the skies on even the ISland). If we don't have players ot worry about, our environment should be much tougher...tough enough for us to need to worry about dino break ins and be fearful of a Rex coming up on our six. PvE (and probably PVP) need a more interesting and rewarding end game as well, something that'll give us something to do past endgame and a reason to breed super dinos.