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[PVE] Wildcard destroys the endgame content on purpose


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15 minutes ago, Kirayli said:

 

  • Give us an option to farm black pearls easier.

Thanks for your feedback on my ideas ;)

For black pearls, you can kill sea alphas or just regular squids and you can get up to 100 at a time. I go to the ocean regularly so its starting to pile up. (Should really get them off my raft though now that the leedsichthys is a thing D:)

 

This might be a drastic change, but what if they made it so that when you run out of time, it just spits out everyone from the arena unharmed and gives a cooldown timer for everyone before they can fight again?

That way there's an option to abort the bossfight if something wrong happens, like if half the people don't teleport in

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6 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Thanks for your feedback on my ideas ;)

For black pearls, you can kill sea alphas or just regular squids and you can get up to 100 at a time. I go to the ocean regularly so its starting to pile up. (Should really get them off my raft though now that the leedsichthys is a thing D:)

You're welcome : ) I really love your idea for the dragon.

Haha yeah I have to get more familiar with the ocean I guess : ) Go and hurry or else all your nice black pearls will spoil at the bottom of the deep sea. ; )

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1 hour ago, iAmE said:

I think you're missing the point entirely.

 

There's a difference between bosses being hard, artificial difficulty, or not, and being nearly mathematically impossible to complete without exploiting or cheating in some regard/way. 

No, I'm agreeing completely. I'm just saying that the only way they add "difficulty" to this game is by making things with bigger numbers. There's no hard-learned technique or anything. A Giga has the same AI as a dodo, it's only dangerous because it has bigger numbers. Instead of making the bosses very difficult to learn how to fight they just made it a massive grind to get to them and just decided to put an inordinate amounts of zeros at the end of all their stats. It's overinflated artificial difficulty. 

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As a hardcore PvP player, I can tell you with certainty that no one on hardcore will ever beat the dragon on hard.

No one will even enter the arena on hard. I've never even seen a level 100 player on any hardcore server. I've seen plenty of level 95s, but those characters don't get used on near impossible tasks, let alone caves or even trips through the swamp.

Bosses need to be more than super high damage bullet sponges. Put some strategy into the fights. There are some great examples out there like destiny raid bosses.

For example one boss could have a sheild that makes it invincible until you destroy three generators (could be a unique minion). Once those three points are destroyed, the boss gets stunned and you can hurt it for a short time. During the fight the boss will be attacking, but it shouldn't be instant death for anything but a super bred Rex.

 

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23 minutes ago, Kirayli said:

 

  • Give us an option to farm black pearls easier.

Black Pearls are literally the only reason to ever go in the ocean. Ever. I don't see how nerfing that one redeeming factor would be a good idea. Particularly considering how easy black pearls are to get, and how little they're used in anything. 

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5 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Thanks for your feedback on my ideas ;)

For black pearls, you can kill sea alphas or just regular squids and you can get up to 100 at a time. I go to the ocean regularly so its starting to pile up. (Should really get them off my raft though now that the leedsichthys is a thing D:)

 

This might be a drastic change, but what if they made it so that when you run out of time, it just spits out everyone from the arena unharmed and gives a cooldown timer for everyone before they can fight again?

That way there's an option to abort the bossfight if something wrong happens, like if half the people don't teleport in

Definitely agree, esprcially with all the bugs and glitches where people lose all their dinos (players not going in so all dinos lost, teleported in and instant complete and all dinos lost, wrong boss difficulty/boss with way more HP spawning instead and running out of time to lose all dinos, etc).  

The current system, especially with how OP bosses are unless you glitch them (like swarm broodmother to get her stuck so doesn't KO all 20 Rex's) there isn't much incentive to attempt boss' when you'll lose 20 raised imprinted Rex's after already breeding to ensure a good bloodline and making 20 good saddles.  

 

Non-official is a different story with their increased rates, most videos/people you find farming bosses aren't on official.  I wonder why... 

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4 minutes ago, Nachomasterx said:

As a hardcore PvP player, I can tell you with certainty that no one on hardcore will ever beat the dragon on hard.

No one will even enter the arena on hard. I've never even seen a level 100 player on any hardcore server. I've seen plenty of level 95s, but those characters don't get used on near impossible tasks, let alone caves or even trips through the swamp.

Bosses need to be more than super high damage bullet sponges. Put some strategy into the fights. There are some great examples out there like destiny raid bosses.

For example one boss could have a sheild that makes it invincible until you destroy three generators (could be a unique minion). Once those three points are destroyed, the boss gets stunned and you can hurt it for a short time. During the fight the boss will be attacking, but it shouldn't be instant death for anything but a super bred Rex.

 

Yeah I would appreciate that!
Also the idea with not every dino beeing killed when leaving the arena. Especially atm where sometimes the dragon-boss will just not spawn and you lose anything anyway.

3 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Black Pearls are literally the only reason to ever go in the ocean. Ever. I don't see how nerfing that one redeeming factor would be a good idea. Particularly considering how easy black pearls are to get, and how little they're used in anything. 

Okay, you guys convinced me : D No black-pearls nerf. What about my other ideas?

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4 minutes ago, Kirayli said:

 

Okay, you guys convinced me : D No black-pearls nerf. What about my other ideas?

Until they get around to redoing the actual boss encounters (Which they inevitably will), I'ld be content with them lowering the damage on the Bosses. I don't think, similar to Dino level (The reason dino stat compression was necessary) that they compensated for the effect levels have on bosses, accurately. I was doing some testing on Hard Broodmother, and our group went to charge in, and she did the spit attack on a rex chewing on her face, and the Rex lost 25k HP through a 98 armor saddle and mate boost. In one attack.

I would, probably, see the same thing happening with the Monkey Projectiles. You can't use mounted dinos in that arena because the Monkey literally does so much damage it one shots you off your mount, almost regardless of what armor you have or how much HP you have, and even assuming you could tank more then one shot, you can't tank the sustained damage from it over time. 

The Dragon just needs to have its damage overall reduced. No real "Outliers" specifically to look at.

 

 

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Just now, Ymhotep said:

Ahhh good. So a New World Order conspiraci theory. You people need a hobby. Or a wife/husband. 

Are.....you ok? 

The only thing I did was point out that they are *actively* patching the only methods to do their end game, rendering the end game content unbeatable (Thus the gear gated behind that content untestable). 

Nothing to do with conspiracies. You may wish to take your own advice if that's how you read my post. 

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14 minutes ago, Kirayli said:

You're welcome : ) I really love your idea for the dragon.

Haha yeah I have to get more familiar with the ocean I guess : ) Go and hurry or else all your nice black pearls will spoil at the bottom of the deep sea. ; )

Get yourself a basilo before they nerf them :) the strategy is, bring some cooked mutton (or raw if you're fast enough, or theri kibble if you want to be optimal), find a level 80+ and kite it's manta escort away.

 

The tame itself is EXTREMELY short with meat and you get yourself someting that can kill any large sea creature for black pearls!! :D

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5 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Until they get around to redoing the actual boss encounters (Which they inevitably will), I'ld be content with them lowering the damage on the Bosses. I don't think, similar to Dino level (The reason dino stat compression was necessary) that they compensated for the effect levels have on bosses, accurately. I was doing some testing on Hard Broodmother, and our group went to charge in, and she did the spit attack on a rex chewing on her face, and the Rex lost 25k HP through a 98 armor saddle and mate boost. In one attack.

I would, probably, see the same thing happening with the Monkey Projectiles. You can't use mounted dinos in that arena because the Monkey literally does so much damage it one shots you off your mount, almost regardless of what armor you have or how much HP you have, and even assuming you could tank more then one shot, you can't tank the sustained damage from it over time. 

The Dragon just needs to have its damage overall reduced. No real "Outliers" specifically to look at.

 

 

Okay so you are pointing out the damage of the bosses and I think this is an good argument. Atm you can stuck them and distract them but with this patched, I would agree with your suggestion. Because how should you really actively tank these attacks o__o 25k with one hit seems a veeery slightly op :'D
But I would also have a look at their life-points. Especially with the broodmother. I know killing her is about dealing a lot of damage in a short time but her life goes up to at least 5.2 mio life... the lowest life we found on a broodmother (hard) was 1.6 mio life. What kind of a variance is that? I would definitely go with a shorter variance and a overall life around 3 mio what is still very high but you know what to prepare for.

1 minute ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Get yourself a basilo before they nerf them :) the strategy is, bring some cooked mutton (or raw if you're fast enough, or theri kibble if you want to be optimal), find a level 80+ and kite it's manta escort away.

 

The tame itself is EXTREMELY short with meat and you get yourself someting that can kill any large sea creature for black pearls!! :D

Haha thank you very much buddy! : ) I will try this. Lets get back to the topic though.

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2 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

I haven't fought monkey but I would also assume that rocks can bounce around and hit your tame more than once

The big risk is if you are on your tame when it gets hit, as I believe the rocks can hit riders.  And if you die, your stuff dies.

 

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5 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Are.....you ok? 

The only thing I did was point out that they are *actively* patching the only methods to do their end game, rendering the end game content unbeatable (Thus the gear gated behind that content untestable). 

Nothing to do with conspiracies. You may wish to take your own advice if that's how you read my post. 

I am well, thank you for asking. Its just how I see some of the posts here. Everyone blaming WC that they are making the game intentionaly bad. Why would they do that? It servers no purpose. WC screws the contend from time to time so? Its in EA so that is expected. We are here to report and sugest what is wrong a what is not. We all agried on this when we bought the game. And a report isnt something like "You make this game intentionaly unplayable!" "The eels are shi**!" "Flyer nerf broke the game!" thats not a report, that is garbage. And I see a lot of it on this forum. 

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2 minutes ago, Ymhotep said:

I am well, thank you for asking. Its just how I see some of the posts here. Everyone blaming WC that they are making the game intentionaly bad. Why would they do that? It servers no purpose. WC screws the contend from time to time so? Its in EA so that is expected. We are here to report and sugest what is wrong a what is not. We all agried on this when we bought the game. And a report isnt something like "You make this game intentionaly unplayable!" "The eels are shi**!" "Flyer nerf broke the game!" thats not a report, that is garbage. And I see a lot of it on this forum. 

They are actually reports. Not everyone is able (Mentally, most of the time) of giving a concise write up of the problems, and neither do the developers encourage people to do so. The environment here is an odd kind of contradiction. Even when you make actual, constructive, feedback, you're liable to have the developers/moderators troll you. Just look earlier in this thread, for instance at some of the replies left by Casanova, a Wildcard employee. 

Further on the subject, is that many of us (Who actively try) to leave feedback, feel like it gets ignored. I wrote about a page and a half, specifically, on bosses, and the boss fights, about a week after the rework of the bosses and difficulties were released. I specifically mentioned the fact that if the multiple exploits used to fight the bosses get patched, that the bosses would be rendered nearly unbeatable. We have gotten, almost, to that point. Months later. They haven't addressed any of the feedback they've gotten. When the developers, or rather, when anyone seeking Feedback creates an atmosphere where it's difficult to give feedback (IE what happened with Casanova earlier in this thread), and compounds that with a, perceived, indifference to the feedback given, the feedback generally declines in quality. 

For instance, why would I write another two page essay on specific gameplay problems, when I'm fairly certain the developers won't spare it the time of day to read?

That's how, I'm sure, several of us (Community members) feel, and while I'm sure there are people who would give nearly useless feedback even in the best of circumstances, Wildcard does bear it's own fair share of blame for the quality of feedback it gets. 

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7 minutes ago, Jerryn said:

The big risk is if you are on your tame when it gets hit, as I believe the rocks can hit riders.  And if you die, your stuff dies.

 

So it kind of robs you of the extra dps you could've had if everyone were riding the rexes. Maybe it should just hit the mounts, and give players a fighting chance, on top of other changes? Even if the damage was reduced, you pretty much have no other choice than to wear fur armor in that arena or die from the cold, leaving you vulnerable to damage

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Just now, Wazzamaniac said:

So it kind of robs you of the extra dps you could've had if everyone were riding the rexes. Maybe it should just hit the mounts, and give players a fighting chance, on top of other changes? Even if the damage was reduced, you pretty much have no other choice than to wear fur armor in that arena or die from the cold, leaving you vulnerable to damage

You can wear Flak in there. Just use an Enduro Stew. It outheals the damage from the environment (At least in my experience). I could live with the rock if it didn't do like 900 base damage to mount and rider. If it did something like 100 damage, with a 900% multiplier to mounts, it would work. As it stands, the Rock just outright makes riding dinos in the monkey arena non-viable because a player can't sustain ably tank the damage, even with multiple healing items. 

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5 minutes ago, iAmE said:

You can wear Flak in there. Just use an Enduro Stew. It outheals the damage from the environment (At least in my experience). I could live with the rock if it didn't do like 900 base damage to mount and rider. If it did something like 100 damage, with a 900% multiplier to mounts, it would work. As it stands, the Rock just outright makes riding dinos in the monkey arena non-viable because a player can't sustain ably tank the damage, even with multiple healing items. 

Not to mention every video I saw of it killing someone with that it breaks all the armor in one hit

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14 minutes ago, iAmE said:

They are actually reports. Not everyone is able (Mentally, most of the time) of giving a concise write up of the problems, and neither do the developers encourage people to do so. The environment here is an odd kind of contradiction. Even when you make actual, constructive, feedback, you're liable to have the developers/moderators troll you. Just look earlier in this thread, for instance at some of the replies left by Casanova, a Wildcard employee. 

Further on the subject, is that many of us (Who actively try) to leave feedback, feel like it gets ignored. I wrote about a page and a half, specifically, on bosses, and the boss fights, about a week after the rework of the bosses and difficulties were released. I specifically mentioned the fact that if the multiple exploits used to fight the bosses get patched, that the bosses would be rendered nearly unbeatable. We have gotten, almost, to that point. Months later. They haven't addressed any of the feedback they've gotten. When the developers, or rather, when anyone seeking Feedback creates an atmosphere where it's difficult to give feedback (IE what happened with Casanova earlier in this thread), and compounds that with a, perceived, indifference to the feedback given, the feedback generally declines in quality. 

For instance, why would I write another two page essay on specific gameplay problems, when I'm fairly certain the developers won't spare it the time of day to read?

That's how, I'm sure, several of us (Community members) feel, and while I'm sure there are people who would give nearly useless feedback even in the best of circumstances, Wildcard does bear it's own fair share of blame for the quality of feedback it gets. 

I'm feeling so sorry reading this. Because you really try to give good feedback. :/

There is almost nothing I have to add to this. It is a shame that some people just hate and get more attention than they deserve and others who are giving great feedback and criticism are overheard because of all the hate. I assume it all would get better if WC had more ppl to watch over the community. To answer forums and questions with enough time to do so. In an interview they said ARK gets way more attention than they suspected earlyer and they just dont have the ppl and the resources atm to answer all the questions and read all the comments. Maybe we need something like a big central dashboard where everyone could contribute to one subject and everybode gets heard... I think this is what this forum is about.

I think we just have to wait until WC decides to work over the bosses and than they will open a thread for feedback and suggestions and we will be able to contribute to the subject. Althought that is not satisfying I think we have to handle it that way.

For example in this thread:
I think by reading the title "[PVE] Wildcard destroys the endgame content on purpose" as an developer I would think this thread is about clickbait and hate and not about this nice discussion we have in here. This is a point in giving good feedback: finding the right words and beeing factual on both sides. And this is what makes it so difficult for both sides I guess - noticing all the hate and crying everywhere. We all have to relax.

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47 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

So it kind of robs you of the extra dps you could've had if everyone were riding the rexes. Maybe it should just hit the mounts, and give players a fighting chance, on top of other changes? Even if the damage was reduced, you pretty much have no other choice than to wear fur armor in that arena or die from the cold, leaving you vulnerable to damage

Well, it does, and it doesn't.

To beat the higher level bosses, you need your tames, but you also need to help them.  You need to use stuff with a high DPS.  Many think that is rockets, but since rpgs do splash damage, you are likely hurting your tames as much as your target.

From what I have seen, some of the more effective weapons have been compound bow and metal arrows, simple pistol, fab pistol, and the AR; of course, you need higher level equipment.

If you rely on just the damage done by your tames, you can power through some of the bosses, but I am pretty sure you will run out of time on the bigger ones.  And, you may also need a strategy of using them in waves, so that they are not getting trashed at one time, unless they are glitching it enough to prevent attacks; then it is really up to the extra damage you and your tribe does to get the job done.

With that said, after the do the TLC/rebalance passes on everything, I do hope they take a look at the bosses, so that creative(but not too cheesy) strategies can be employed.

For example, I tried to take a Thyla into the Megapithecus arena but it got left behind.  Later, I used admin to bring it in.  You can definitely do a lot of climbing with it in that arena, which could make for a completely different type of fight.

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28 minutes ago, Kirayli said:

Maybe we need something like a big central dashboard where everyone could contribute to one subject and everybode gets heard... I think this is what this forum is about.

I think we just have to wait until WC decides to work over the bosses and than they will open a thread for feedback and suggestions and we will be able to contribute to the subject. Althought that is not satisfying I think we have to handle it that way.

For example in this thread:
I think by reading the title "[PVE] Wildcard destroys the endgame content on purpose" as an developer I would think this thread is about clickbait and hate and not about this nice discussion we have in here. This is a point in giving good feedback: finding the right words and beeing factual on both sides. And this is what makes it so difficult for both sides I guess - noticing all the hate and crying everywhere. We all have to relax.

They literally just tried that with a couple of threads on the flyer re-balance.  But, the threads filled with the same arguments as all of the other threads, with some(if not many) people ignoring what was written and just re-posting the same demands.  It is ironic as so many people complain about a lack of communications, and when the lines are opened, any attempt at reasonable conversations, compromises, and ideas are just drowned out(and not just from one side) with repetitiveness and some that just take it so personally. 

And, there were some good ideas in there.  Fortunately, since it was created to get the ideas, I am pretty confident it was read, any constructive or original feedback was seen.  Communications are not always about getting your way, sometimes, you need to compromise a bit.  And, sometimes, you have to wait a bit; if everything is made a number 1 priority, nothing is a number 1 priority.

But, I think you are also correct on the bosses.  While glitches and exploits will get patched up, eventually, I hope, they will come back and look at it again.  I want to see creativity, planning, and risk to be as effective as brute force.

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