Re-balancing the Fliers, Mk. 2!

[MadTurninator]

so with V2 we still can't get wyvern eggs or tame quetzals so whats the point wildcard 

[Temujin]

2 hours ago, slayerofzombs87 said:

so essentially they get a slight buff. end result still being slow as hell. if this is not the final pass. why the hell did you mess with it in the first place? beyond raptoring stupid. might as well have left it how it was. because what putting yourself through all this work. and oh pissing off the playerbase by such an stupid nerf. birds with big wing span wait for it .... should be able to fly fast especially wyverns. due to massive muscle strength

Umm, so a pelican, flies faster than say, a hawk?

 

Larger wing span does not always mean more speed. 

[WhiteVixen]

I really wish you would look at PvE players closer, none of us live on the back of ANY fliers and to say we don't use land Dino's is ludicrous, I have a small server with friends, we are all one tribe, and each member  takes a job to contribute to the tribe on land air and sea, and with one stroke of your update brush you have removed 2 of the three, there are a LOT of servers that BALANCE THEMSELVES, and a lot of servers where they cheat everything in, if you REALLY want balance and peace in the comunity, why not leave it up to the server owners and admins? set it up so they can be enabled IF it is what that server wants, I still don't know why you would reduce swimming by 80% per point in oxygen, that HAS to be a pvp thing. is it really that hard to do these changes and let the servers add them if they want them?

yes we're all a bit upset ( understatement) about the nerfs, and the push to put everybody inland and on the ground, and rightly so, we as a community have put in a LOT of hours and work getting ALL our dino's where we feel we want them, please consider this idea, it could REALLY help the community and keep the level of enjoyment we have ALL come to enjoy

[Marcchillin]

@Jat if Quetzal are never going to be envisioned in the game as a flying base that doesn't land, will there be some sort of Tek Flying base? And if there is plans for such a thing will it cost element to keep it up or will that too run out of energy and crash to the ground? I'm only asking because my tribes idea of our sky base which we were so proud of came crashing down and we were having so much fun using the strategy to keep a small community hidden in the air as we fly out to the ground and do our gathering, found a way to keep the quetz in the air by making them follow a mount already on board the quetzals. We made camp grounds, walled areas to go to where we grow crops and keep ground mounts that we had fun using when we landed. But that was our survival goal, what drove us to play and find the new dinos. I enjoyed speed as a defensive play with my birds, if you are fast the stronger enemy may not see you, but I always considered speed a good option over health so my dinos weren't too op in considering the fear I had if my bird was to fast to mount in a hostile environment and to weak to be bitten by a snake to many times. What I found unique about ARK was that it was versital enough to genuinely bring out everyone's personal survival style. Now I feel like my tribe and I have lost the one thing that made us survive in ARK our own special sort of way. I can only beg you to reconsider the idea of making this a permanent aspect of the game, the idea of making this penalty on the avian dinos optional isn't a lot to ask, is it? I have a love for survival games and yours was one of my favorites but now I have such mixed feelings about the new gameplay. Well good luck with the upcoming patch/s, I hope you take my tribes gaming style into consideration. I will however be watching from the sidelines (fourms) for now, I'm a bit to tiered to evolve my survival again. But side note, those underwater structures were pretty cool, never got to test it out but do they work on moss saddles? Have a good one bud.

[Pii]

The Pelagornis can farm Kairuku for Organic Polymere better than anyone else. How often do I see stuff like this; "Dino XY is useless, it has no special abilities" while in fact you just haven't figured out it's use. You're killing ARK with your entitlement of "wanting to develope the game" despite your complete lack of knowledge.

 

Also, read the OP! It says why PvE and PvP both received the nerf. Your lack of motivation to inform yourself is just pathetic, you cry over nonsense and make up false accusations but at the same time you're unable to read the answers/explanations to your questions/complaints right in front of your eyes.  

[BAMF69]

Please, please, please give unofficial servers the ability to have upgradeable flyer move speed.

Why would you give us AllowFlyingStaminaRecovery=true but not the equivalent for the flyer move speed?

All we need is one line of code for our .ini

I understand you need to balance the official servers but my server is supposed to be casual and fun, and fast travel is a big part of that! 

[Smash]

Just going to say:  Don't give in to the crybabies!

The all review bombed the game when you released scorched Earth - They all bought it and kept playing

They all cried that it 'was the end of Ark!' when you took turrets off platforms - It wasn't

They all said they would quit when you wiped the servers in 2015 - They didn't

The all howled that they'd hurl themselves from the nearest rooftop when you nerfed the quetzal weight exploit - They didn't (mores the pitty.........)

For every person on here claiming all their friends have quit, there's 20 people who aren't their friends who are loving it.  Whatever you do WC stick with the aim to make birds a supplemental part of the game, not the entire game.  I will agree with one suggestion to fix dino pathing to make land dinos a bit more usable.  That's a good suggestion.  Keep up the good work.

[Sessym]

Actually, this might be a good time to introduce some more realistic flyer handling, much like I imagined it to be from the get-go. Keep the stats low and return the ability to increase speed in smaller increments, make flyers be able to do 2 things in addition:

1. Glide to regain stamina:

• grossly increased turning radius
• automatic landing if reaching ground
• losing altitude gradually
• losing speed gradually
• a gliding flier should be an easy target

2. If they stop moving, they either hover, draining stamina really fast, or drop out of the sky, taking fall damage. Additionally, take away the auto landing mechanic from tamed ones. They shall glide, shall stall, they shall fall, they shall die. Flying should be a risk you take to gain advantage.

[SwinG]

Hello TheRightHand and thank you for your post.

I understand that you wanted nerf fliers because many players don't use others dinos for PVP.

But, i have got a question : Why you nerfed Bronto and turtles's life ? and why you nerfed the Ichtyosaur speed ? In this game, it's more difficult to attack a base than to defend it. And you nerfed the dinos who can tank during a raid.

I don't understand, can you explain this please ? We waiting an answer

Thank you very much

[FunkDooBiesT]

Howdy Dev's!

I'd like to take a moment and give some feedback.

But before I can do that I need to explain my gaming situation so that it is clear where I base my point of view and opinions.

I play solo and with very good friends only. The main reason for this is time. I've put in my time on a official server, but soon realized that it just is not possible for my life style.

As a family orientated human, if life requires my attention I get up and go deal with it.

I then decided to start my own private server and add mods to keep me engaged.

The server is greatly sped-up and configured for solo possibilities.

 

Now that you are aware of the way I play let me provide my feedback.

1) As a single pair of eyes scouting for that next max level dinosaur to add to my breading pairs. Fast flight is a necessity to me.

2) You are well with in your right to balance the game in any way you need to do it, but the result as intended for across the board hit me square in the time area.

3) Also realizing that the time and care I have put into some of my virtual pets, they all suffered a stroke and ended up being disabled. It's heart breaking to see how crippled they were after the balance update.

4) As for my personally customized server settings and way of life, I feel that I should not have been targeted in a balance update at all.

5) The first stat change update gave me the freedom that I required to reach my personal goals in this game. The ability to change stats as I would like them. So then you could change the base value and I can change my config value and there we have balance. But for some reason you decided the stat adjustment should now be entirely in your hands and at the cost of your player base's time.

6) If a change need to happen that will directly impact a humans effort you can expect backlash, it's just human nature. The fact that you are effected by effort spent on virtual object's and/or creatures that hold no real world value is another thing entirely.

 

These are my opinions from my point of view, I'm not here to change your mind on your opinions and point of view. It's just my feedback.

[Vermithrax]

1 minute ago, SwinG said:

Hello TheRightHand and thank you for your post.

I understand that you wanted nerf fliers because many players don't use others dinos for PVP.

But, i have got a question : Why you nerfed Bronto and turtles's life ? and why you nerfed the Ichtyosaur speed ? In this game, it's more difficult to attack a base than to defend it. And you nerfed the dinos who can tank during a raid.

 

I find the opposite- there is much more offence to this game than defense.

wood spikes< metal spikes< plant x< auto turret< tek shield genny

vs

legit everything else in the game. It is harder to defend than it is to siege half the time  there needs to be more defense options for bases rather than having to go from auto turret to tek gear. 

 

 

[Evolvei]

Specific Roles as a core is good as long as there are ini options.

Forcing PVE players to do more of what is not enjoyed as much does not make sense to me.

It is not like anyone starts in the air on a flyer and stays there until they are finished playing ARK.

To me this comes off as we made this so we are going to force you to look at and use everything we made whether you like it or not.

Started laughing thinking of everyone taming land dinos now and then an all non flier specific hammer comes down hard.

Can someone explain what is the benefit to ARK by forcing a play-style if a player enjoys flying more often or enjoys being on the ground more often in a PVE game.

[Lewiatan]

You have to increase speed of Quetzal. It is really irritating to fly anywhere using it, because I can outrun it easily with 110% sprint. It is illogical.

 I can see in new rebalance It didn't get higher speed, change it.

[Necro89]

well ive never heard a pve player complain about OP fliers, and everyone have been breeding dinos to the best of the ability like you devs had designed their have been no cheating in any of the aspect, but still again Pve compared to Pvp are different one change shouldt affect the other, for pve having speed and weight stam etc are cruicial to the game and their are still always risks to playing like i said ive lost many dinos when farming and taming b4. to balance like i said for pve side of you think players are gods of the skies have an aggro dino restrictive to the skies or something but the nerf takes away players hard earnings and robbes them of time spent.

[hsaK]

The one thing i dont get @TheRightHand, is why did you disable capability of regenerating stamina while midair with quetz. This was a unique feature, maybe it should be tuned down like stamina reg while latching with a tapejara. But to simply disable it is really bad, since all and everything attacks quetz. Also it destroys immersion, bc wild quetz never land. Can you tell me that?

[Sorrelon]

These changes hardly sound like they'll make flyers any less useless then they are now. Unless quetz can regen stamina when dismounted midair, any other stamina and stamina regen buff is irrelevant.

 

I have another view for this whole flyer nerf thing, a new idea, if you will. A huge portion of your playerbase, including myself, think that this nerf was an absolutely horrible idea and never should've released in the first place. I hated it, people hated it, they left so many negative review that the Steam rating of the game changed from positive to mixed, a mod that simply reverts fliers to pre-nerf got almost 22k (21941 to be precise) players within 4 days. All these point to one thing, your "balance patch" did not sit well within the majority of players. On the other hand, there are also some people who are okay the nerf, like the game as it is now, think post-nerf flyers are what should've been from the start. So, why not making Official No Fly servers for those people? You've made Official No Tame servers, and while its not my cup of tea, there are some people who love it. That way, not only both anti-flyer nerf and pro-flyer nerf players will get the best of all worlds, but players who play on Unofficial No Fly servers will also come back to officials.

[Smash]

6 minutes ago, Necro89 said:

well ive never heard a pve player complain about OP fliers, and everyone have been breeding dinos to the best of the ability like you devs had designed their have been no cheating in any of the aspect, but still again Pve compared to Pvp are different one change shouldt affect the other, for pve having speed and weight stam etc are cruicial to the game and their are still always risks to playing like i said ive lost many dinos when farming and taming b4. to balance like i said for pve side of you think players are gods of the skies have an aggro dino restrictive to the skies or something but the nerf takes away players hard earnings and robbes them of time spent.

The only thing that's different between PVE and PVP is the threat of other players and destroyable structures.  Everything else is the same.

Troodons are just as annoying to PVP players as they are to PvP.  The problem of people building walls everywhere on PvE servers to block resources isn't a balance problem.  It's a wierd problem where people choose to play PVE to be competitive.  The game mode can't really cater for that.

[Waffeleisen]

Why don't you just tie speed to stamina consumption. For instance 2.5 % speed result in 2.5 % higher stamina consumption (or even more). Moreover, you could cap the speed at like 200 %. 

And I really don't understand why you removed the wild stats in speed,as every dino has this unnecessary thing. Now flyers just seem off. I would keep it or remove it from every dino. But to be honest, I would add it back to not destroy old dinos who could have fewer stats if you keep the current max level 

[AlphaGodith]

I feel like the most important change has been completely ignored. You MUST restore the ability to upgrade movement speed. Making any stat static is a huge deal, and movement speed is a flier's most important stat, second only to stamina, maybe. I still think the stats in general are too low, but that isn't a big deal to me like the freezing of movement speed is. NOONE WILL BE HAPPY UNTIL YOU CAN LEVEL UP SPEED AGAIN.

[Bugg]

2 minutes ago, Smash said:

The problem of people building walls everywhere on PvE servers to block resources isn't a balance problem.  It's a wierd problem where people choose to play PVE to be competitive.  

Yeah I don't get that either; it doesn't really happen on AU servers and we get a lot of foreigners playing on ours because (according to them) it's friendlier. Griefers are ganged up on real quick and...encouraged...to leave. The bigger tribes pillar off resource spawns to stop noobs building there but nobody tries to stop other people getting them with walls or whatever. It's PvE

[MercyKilling]

Really not liking the current iteration of flyer nerfs.

Would much rather have seen a "level cap" put on speed. This way, flyers don't become totally useless.

And they are useless to me now. I play only PvE, and every gorram game so far has screwed PvE over in favor of PvP when it comes to nerfing things.

At least give players a CHOICE. I've seen the argument put forth to allow private and non-official servers to have pre-nerf flyers, or to be able to adjust the base stat. Even that is better than what happened/is happening, IMHO.

[szabiferi]

First: at least we got some hard numbers to chew on, thank you for that. 

But: the changs still seems to be tiny (compared what they were) and still, why we are not allowed to customize speed? Ok, dont allow to reach extreme levels , but if the ground bronto allowed to have speed increase, why the sky bronto is not? 

[szabiferi]

53 minutes ago, scarletblade5 said:

Here is an idea why not keep all flyers at there base rates they was tamed or hatched at in speed,

100% movement on a dragon is just silly when there base was always 120% give or take imprinting.

Most if not all people will not be bothered to spend 25 min just to travel from one place to another, so if the Nerf was meant to be 50% off health, stamina, weight and speed i think you may have your calculations wrong  

 

Man, yesterday I tried to fly my quetz on The CEnter map, from our jungle north base to the Vulcan island base. 

15 minutes!, because it was not possible to sprint, as stamina would burn out over the middle of that "sea" what is there. Quarter hour!!!!

After couple minutes, I took a coin and used it to keep the W pushed, and went to have a dinner....

[Concerned]

Please consider making flier imprints on raised babies still count towards a small buff to movespeed. A theoretical max increase of 20% based on a 100% imprint is not going to ruin or break PVP in any sense, and if you feel that it would, then lower the max speed you get per imprint down to 15% or 10%, but FFS have it count for something.  If you don't, then consider removing the movespeed buff from land-dinos.

[HighFlyer15]

2 hours ago, OnePotatoChip said:

I thought I was done with this whole conversation as both sides keep parroting the same things repeatedly, and some don't even seem interested in discourse, but I'll bite. 

You guys did things fundamentally backwards with this patch. It's not the patch ARK was ready for, even if it was the one that it needed. And it wasn't ready for this patch, because what you're pushing for, more ground interaction, isn't where it needs to be. Players feel as if they need to travel to the other ends of the map to get acceptable amounts of metal that they feel is sequestered on the mountaintops. Anks are far too slow, as clumsy as most other land animals in term of interacting with world geometry and don't have the weight to haul their loads -- it's not exactly feasible to take a train of Anks into the mountains, guys.

Resource distribution. If you want these animals trains you've talked about to be a reality, then we're going to have to talk either resource distribution or item costs. It's all entrenched in need. If a player doesn't need to fly laps around the Island to gather materials, then they won't. Make metal and obsidian more available at lower altitudes and make it so that land animals are able to reach it in a timely fashion. Yeah, I'm talking about speed, stamina and weight increases for the Ank. And for land animals across the board, if we're being honest. I mean, look at the popularity of land animals like the Dire Bear, Thylacoleo and Equus. They've got stamina, speed and at least decent weight (respectively, of course. For an animal that doesn't need a saddle/available at level 25, the Equus' weight isn't terrible). They're not a chore to use. Whereas animals like the Allosaurus, on top of not functioning well within their given role due to collision issues, regain stamina so terribly slowly that many would rather just take their Battle Ptera. 

I'll agree with the direction of for flyers that you've specified, though; they seem about right, but it's not what's being reflected now. Not that you need me to tell you that; you're probably aware. @TheRightHand

This a million times.

Even if they make the Quetz the metal cargo plane again, the fact that you only bring enough raw metal home for 10 foundations is crazy. 10 foundations  
More resources spread out across the map would be a really good way to combat the need to travel far to gain very little.
Ben did a really good job with this on the Center, maybe even doing it to the point of overkill. Most good base spots on the map have metal nearby. Some spots more than others but you could still take a dino train out for less than 20-30 minutes and come home with incredible amounts of metal, due to the Paracers and Brontos getting the weight buff in the past. That's just not possible anywhere on the Island.
Spending more time getting dinos unstuck than harvesting doesn't help either.