Re-balancing the Fliers, Mk. 2!

[Havokpaintedwolf]

quetz could use about 20 or 15 added to its movement value sky bronto is a good idea and all but have you ever seen a bronto move? theres a reason most of what they do is sit around in peoples bases looking pretty.

[Tycoon01]

Why are quetzals slower while tamed than wild?

 

Will we once again be able to spend points to increase our fliers speed?

 

Will I be allotted a dino mindwipe to my fliers so that I may tailor my fliers to these new changes and be able to better test them?

 

 

I may be misunderstanding this post but it seems like smoke and mirrors. Not amused.

[Sam110]

pve dose not need the flyers nerf why the hell you guys nerf it do you only see pvp and not us???

[Sam110]

pve is not like pvp stope making changes effect us all do them to pvp only thats where is it needed 

[Mythos]

2 minutes ago, Sam110 said:

pve dose not need the flyers nerf why the hell you guys nerf it do you only see pvp and not us???

I'm sorry i cant agree, Pve is too easy as is. You need some threats in the wild. I've been having a blast using land Dinos to explore.

[Pii]

The reasoning behind this patch is the most important part to me. I am very thankful (for once) that they share the same opinion as I do;

"80% of the game was easily ignored because the air is safer, more straightforward, etc. "

This is the reality and the sh*tstorm you received proves this. I am not a fan of WC, they have done many things that I have my difficulties with but this is something that brings back hope.

I think next step would be to slightly buff land dinos by adjusting the weight for certain ressources - just as for the beaver.

Ressource requirements is another thing to look into - especially for high quality gear (30'000 Metal Ingots for a Platform saddle?!)

Yea, maybe I'll actually come back one day.

[Bolty]

It took months of time to get where u can get to the point you get out there to look for wyvern eggs and weeks after that to get high lvl wyvern eggs to breed. And after that 4days of no sleep to grow them up with high enough imprints. And what u get for all that work us 4sec of flight and 1hr waiting to stam to get back up again, are u efffing kidding me?? You can use breath attack 2 times before wyvern runs out of stam completely for eef sake. thought wyverns stam needed very high buff before the nerf, but then u get this nerf poop.

And after that in of balancing only 75points increase in stam of wyvern are u effing kidding me, and no increase back in speed. This is simply retarded, why u even bothered at all? Just eefing remove them from game, that would be way better then the dumb thing u are in name of balancing.

[Sky.NET]

I agree on the pve argument. Pve should not be hard to maintain at all (maintain i said, not advance in the game like rocketing to tek within 1 day), but with this "new balancing" you made everything a pain... want to build a new metal base on top of a mountain to get rid of titano and giga griefers? gg wp

#freepve

[Boo]

OK my few bits:

* It's OK you guys want to "test" this by making massive nerf and then spend half a year adjusting, you have all rights to do this on your official servers, but why the hell are you taking all private server communities into your experiment? Why not give us option to opt-out and then opt-in when you are finally DONE? Just add some server options to ignore these restrictions, it's how much... 3 lines of code to add something like ?EnableFlyerSpeedLvlUp

* Your assumption that nerfing speed for flyers if a good approach is completely wrong. That is same as nerfing DMG of rex and not allowing people to lvl damage up. Make it permanent 100DMG no matter of rex level or exp. Lvl 1 rex do same dmg as lvl 230 exped up. Does it sound extremely dumb? Oh yes it does and that is exactly what you did to flyers. If you want to make them less useful for PvP remove ability to grab people from land dinos, make it so that land dinos can use their attack to dismount enemy flyer, or paralyze it (hell if rex bites a ptero, it probably should be able to fly right away). Removing speed is worst path and you chose the worst path, that is why everyone hates you for this nerf.

* You say that ptero is suppose to be fastest flyer, except for wyverns. Then you say that wyvern should have moderate flying speed. You are basically saying that fasters flyer should be less than moderate fast. How does this compute?

You named multiple issues with flyers, they can all be fixed by changing things different than speed. But yes, removing speed is probably most easy programmer-wise.

Is nerf of flyers needed? Yes. Are there multiple ways how to nerf them? Yes. Did you chose the worst and least efficient way? Yes.

 

You didn't just nerf flyers, you crippled the game and removed one of its best features.

[nicenicenicelaaa]

2 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

 

• Quetz - Sky Bronto. Slow, extreme stamina, extreme weight capacity, good for prolonged sieges or for moving massive quantities of things to and fro. High health pool, but extremely poor maneuverability and very vulnerable.

this is where i see one of the problems is.

 

the quetz shouldnt have a high hp pool, it also shouldnt be a sky bronto. it should be somewhat quick, but i would rather go decrease its hp even more.

[LilNastyGurl]

3 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

This is not the final pass! We're going to be iterating on this internally and want your input as we go forwards. I'll try to do more of this stuff when we bring out large balance changes in the future, and do them beforehand, not after. It's a process, so it doesn't just end here. 
 

Was being able to carry Giganotosaurus & Rock Elementals an intended feature for Quetzal Platforms? Because in terms of PvP they are a rather unsightly, confusing and questionable ordeal.

It's kinda weird that the Lymantria saddle unlocks at Level 45, and the Ptera unlocks at 35. One suggestion would be to bump that down considering the Lymantria is the least harmful mount to the game on either side. Slow flyer, vulnerable...doesn't sprint past turrets or enable flawless wyvern egg collecting.

Pteranodon

You did a good job with the toning down of the c-spin. With that main advantage, it made the Pteranodon act more like an ultra-aggressive sky dominator mount, rather than a "ultimate move, use with caution." The cooldown feels TOO short though, compared to how much damage it can inflict to large groups of land dinos at higher levels, and the boon it gets from over-harvesting. While yes, killing Argentavis with my Ptera to collect Prime Meat was a really fun and rewarding experience, I can live with waiting to use it. 

Against veteran players, Pteranodon picking is less threatening, as they have parachutes, whips, Microraptors and encumberment on their side, However, with a high enough dino you can pick up players carrying 400 pounds of equipment and still manage to maintain your speed and achieve "death drop height" quicker than your target can react. Somebody suggested that Pteranodons can't pick larger dinos like Rexes, Spinos and what not, and I think that's a good idea. 

Don't allow speed increases on Pteranodons to get crazy on PvP. Clamp them to a reasonable speed to stop them from being untouchable kings once again. Current speed keeps them snipeable, visible and makes their picks easier to react to, which is good. Bad side is, of course, everyone hates it.

Argentavis

The Argent can NOT fight well against other flyers in PvP. While the Ptera can directly damage creatures in front of it, the Argent has to focus the face of its attacks towards it's feet. You will notice that Argents "kick" to attack, and many argent battles devolve into kicking matches that continuously rise upwards as its target goes up and outside of the Argent's attack range. Against everything it can grab, it is deadly. Against things it cannot, like Dimorphodons, Ants, and Meganeura, you're better off jumping off the Argent and whistling neutral, but even then the fight might just result in a constant upward spiral. If argent's attacks can hit things directly in front of it without too much issue, it goes off cleaner.

[MagenZion]

Just now, nicenicenicelaaa said:

this is where i see one of the problems is.

 

the quetz shouldnt have a high hp pool, it also shouldnt be a sky bronto. it should be somewhat quick, but i would rather go decrease its hp even more.

As a dino enthusiast it's especially annoying since I believe Paleontologists have some pretty high estimates at a Quetzal's flight speed. 

[Tacitus]

18 minutes ago, Mythos said:

The Pelagornis is rarely used as well. Not many tames need prime fish meat and with mutton so aviable that niche isn't very useful. Sure it can land on water but what we really need is for it to be able to dive into very shallow water or it takes dmg like the whale. Then it would be great for drop hunting and an even better prime fish gather. Honestly it should probably be just a hair slower than the pteranodon so it gets used more. 

Lastly I think imprinting should give SOME small speed bonus. Breeding is a lot of time and investment and there should be some minor reward to show for it. Otherwise I'm all for the nerf and upcoming changes. 

The second part of this quote is definitely something I'd like to see added back.  Breeding and rearing any dinosaur should give an "across-the-board" bonus, including speed increases.

As for the Pelagornis, well...  It's an odd animal.  I do agree with this as well, though: it needs something extra to make it stand out a bit more.

[nicenicenicelaaa]

2 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

PvP implications in flier speed, not only did it make snatching, C4 bombing, and Quetz Grenading huge, easy issues, but it had underlying repercussions in the overall pvp gameplay space with regards to trivializing the land dinos which we actually want to see in battle, and giving people the option to remain endlessly airborne with giant mobile chaingun/gatling/rocket platforms high above the world and out of range of any threats.

 

all you listed here doesnt affect your primitive game mode, please for the love of god dont forget about the game mode and make changes for it seperately. it is different from tech and shouldnt get nerfed in the same way as tech.

[Bugg]

12 minutes ago, Havokpaintedwolf said:

quetz could use about 20 or 15 added to its movement value sky bronto is a good idea and all but have you ever seen a bronto move? theres a reason most of what they do is sit around in peoples bases looking pretty.

Yeah tbh I would rather have a sky Paracer than a sky Bronto. Less weight, better move speed, decent HP and very slow stam drain.

[Sam110]

the problem now how any new player or even old going to tame a quetz now if it runs away and don't run out of stmina also same thing for wyvrns how can peeps get the eggs and run ???

as for getting the milk will be harder but manageable but still no way to get the eggs

[MagenZion]

1 minute ago, nicenicenicelaaa said:

 

all you listed here doesnt affect your primitive game mode, please for the love of god dont forget about the game mode and make changes for it seperately. it is different from tech and shouldnt get nerfed in the same way as tech.

It's honestly an absurd excuse since they easily nerfed c4 bombing into the ground by limiting how much c4 players can put on a dino. My only question is why not just freakin' remove it? I mean, DILO is wrong with people that they'd even think to strap c4 onto their dino companions and kill them? I'm not an RPer or anything but I don't view my dinos as expendable tools to just be used up and trashed. In the scheme of the bit of lore behind this game (such as dossiers referring to dinos being tribe companions and the like) we shouldn't be allowed to use dinos as suicide bombers. It's repugnant gameplay wise and ethically.

[Bujhm]

can you please give us away to reset the lvls of the  flyers so we can arrange them the way it needed now please 

I think that most players expect such an opportunity. Why developers have turned all pets into invalids and do not allow players to fix it. They talk about their balance, but where is common sense - why do we play on broken pets?!

[GreenRoc]

1 hour ago, CrazyTolradi said:

It was also really nice of them to not even mention the swimming speed nerf at all anywhere and just slip it in for people to discover.

They changed that too? So points I had put into my survivors oxygen with the sole purpose to swim faster is now nullified. I wonder if I need to go make a mind wipe potion so those points aren't wasted. I'm not happy about this. Another change added that I don't appreciate, without knowing the config to reverse the change on my private games.

I'd like a config so I can let oxygen affect swim speed, or better yet, add a stat for swim speed... I'd put a lot of points into that on my survivor. Swimming faster (without swim fins) is fun imo.

[GhostRSA]

I was just wondering now, what if say the leeds for instance was replaced by something that cannot be tamed, is a flyer and aggros on flyers? Would that not eliminate the "threat less skies" argument

[Tacitus]

2 minutes ago, GreenRoc said:

I'd like a config so I can let oxygen affect swim speed, or better yet, add a stat for swim speed... I'd put a lot of points into that on my survivor. Swimming faster (without swim fins) is fun imo.

I'm actually kind of surprised putting points into movement speed doesn't make you swim any faster.  If that's the case, then it'd be nice to see players swimming faster if they have invested in movement speed, which kind of makes sense.

[Zederia]

9 minutes ago, GreenRoc said:

They changed that too? So points I had put into my survivors oxygen with the sole purpose to swim faster is now nullified.

I'd like a config so I can let oxygen affect swim speed, or better yet, add a stat for swim speed... I'd put a lot of points into that on my survivor. Swimming faster (without swim fins) is fun imo.

the nerf was to DINOS not players

[Ihmislehma]

Thank you for the information!

I'm at a point in my single player game where I can't yet make a Ptera saddle, but I did forcetame a Tapejara and aQuetzal. Tape handled nicely, but the 40-odd leveled Quetzal lost over one third of it's stamina when flying from one end of the Hidden lake to the other.

I would like to see speed to be able to be levelled up again. Just make tweaks to how it levels, and/or add a cap to how far it can be leveled, or perhaps how fast.

As for the current patch, Ichtyornis are very useful once you get the hang of making them hunt and retrieve - prime fish and meat you can get relatively early with relatively safe ways! Iguanodon is currently mo go-to mount, able to hold it's own against raptors, running away from most others. Currently seeds aren't that useful outside of planting, so the seed ability is not something I've used. Maybe add a small-ish seed eating creature to the game? I have seen several Leedsichtyses, but haven't had the reason to go out with a raft. Horses so far have been the most elusive, and I've encountered just one. Troodon kibble requirement is a bit hefty, since Troodons tend to require pretty hard sacrifices and are very hard to tame without a flier to pick one up to a taming pen.

The reason I fly is simple: safety and convenience. Land travel is often extremely annoying due to being stuck on every single tree and rock. Safety is pretty simple. I once saw a Rex and two packs of Allos in Drayo's Cove all at once. Took one look and went "nope". Or how about three Carnos at once. Note that I don't play pvp.

Personal favorites are Tapejara, Iguanodon, Thylacoleo, Quetzal, Microraptor and now Ichtyornis. I'd like to see some old models get some tlc, like the Sabertooth. I... kinda really hate it. 

Current UI isn't something I hoped for, and the tab system took me a friend to point it out. But I'll get used to it. I'd like to see the item stack weights in the hotbar, as well as repair times when repairing from there.

[SirTwist]

Apparently those who like the nerf has never, ever, faced a wild giga. Face one, then tell me that flying is op. Anything but a high level dino is dead within seconds of you attacking it. A high level, maybe 30 seconds to a minute, if you are solo, and have no additional speed added to your dino. Dead anyway if you did. Nothing will save you from a giga except a flying dino. I have faced that danger many times, playing the game, and here's what I think, if Jat, and the devs want to nerf anything, nerf the wild gigas. And roll back all the nerfs to flyers, and nerf the gigas. That might save those of us who are veterans, at 1k or better hours into the game. Otherwise, you will lose everyone of us, and then no one, except newbies, will play, without knowing the horrors that we have faced.

[scarletblade5]

Here is an idea why not keep all flyers at there base rates they was tamed or hatched at in speed,

100% movement on a dragon is just silly when there base was always 120% give or take imprinting.

Most if not all people will not be bothered to spend 25 min just to travel from one place to another, so if the Nerf was meant to be 50% off health, stamina, weight and speed i think you may have your calculations wrong