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Re-balancing the Fliers, Mk. 2!


TheRightHand

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2 minutes ago, Taiine said:

 

Sorry to say mate but all you hope for is going to be crushed.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hVE4Ub5ufePdkun4IYQf1oADPcvcfLx9IRpEbZVPLdc/htmlview#gid=160180008

That is the numbers for this so called flyer change. There just changing their health a touch and changing their base stam by a little. You wont be able to level speed, and their stam drain is not changing, it'll still drain super fast. Meaning 480 extra stam on my quetz is like unnoticeable with how fast the stam still drains. Same with all flyers..

And you notice how there is just one spreadsheet for both PVE and PVP, but PVE roles for birds are nothing like the roles they have in PVP?

There are a ton of us PVE players out there, but in every nerf we are forgotten. This is why I have gone back to playing on unofficial servers, where at least the admin can adjust rates and install mods to make the game into something that is fun to play.

To be honest, I left playing on official about a month before the update. I was on the fence about going back, but now I won't be coming back unless this rolled back or fixed. I don't see how it is possible to play on Scorched Earth with the current settings and fly my wyverns (which was the most fun I've had in ARK in over a year).

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6 minutes ago, kak said:

The point is that this is a game, not a second job. My constructive feedback is that they roll back the changes, which were pants on head to begin with.
 

Platform mining for example, was harder and took skill to pilot. Why not give a weight reduction to people who can fly better? Don't try to tell me that I should just walk my ank from halfway across the map either.

Like others have said, if you are going to nerf the flyer's, then the Anky should get a huge speed buff. It is just way to slow to be anything other than a rider on a quetzal platform.

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1 hour ago, kak said:

Fix it or nobody is coming back.

Yeah! I'm not coming back!!!

... mostly because I'm not leaving ...

I agree that it's more time consuming now, and since this isn't an MMO where time=money for the developer I like to think that'll be scaled down somehow. Maybe by lowering crafting requirements for higher tiered items.

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My issue with the changes is the amount of things they affect all in one fell swoop.

Farming is the main issue, the speed reduction and the 100% weight added to platforms make farming literally everything from metal/wood to meat slower than the original rates a year ago.  Now that to me this is puzzling because WC increased the rates to 1.5, id imagine because they clearly felt their population did not want the game to feel as grindy as it had in the past.  These changes more than revert that change.  Rates are now effectively below 1 if you add together travel time to node and amount you can carry.

On a similar note, its like giving people a year at x20 then going to x1.  Explain how you expect anyone not established to catch up, they simply cannot.  A tribe with 1000 turrets and full ammo already made has an exponential advantage not having to farm that stuff at this point.  A change to farming like this should have been done with a full wipe or not at all.

My suggestion is to play with speed/HP/stam numbers to fit what is needed for PVP and your lore vision, but dont make this more like mincraft than it already is and revert the weight changes.

The only other thing im not a fan of is the Wyvern special attack stam cost, its basically unuseable. Reduce the cost dramatically and reduce the damge to compensate if needed.  Maybe increase stam cost of pickup to compensate as well.  But it is just dumb having to land after one fire breath, or for that mater not being able to take off after using one.

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On 4/3/2017 at 10:34 PM, Maxanto said:

Right Hand..I just want to point out a mod to you guys.. and in 3 days it has 21k subscribers...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=895711211

That's right 21k people think your changes are absolute poop. I am one of that 21K. The fact that you are still humoring this idea proves what I thought all along about WC.

People don't like change in general, especially when it makes things more challenging for them. 

 

Should be nice to see land dinos being used now that are not Turtles and Gigas :D

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Honestly, I have never been upset with any update on this game.  I was a bit miffed when I could not even travel from one of my bases to another base that I used to be able to do in one shot.  Now, I have to stop 5 times, and its only 1/8th of the way across the map.  This is absurd.  If you can't rebalance the fliers to a point where they are useful, then you are going to lose a lot of players.  Unfortunately, you will lose lots of players anyway, seems this game is not complete.  The players that will be playing after the game is "complete" will be gone simply because you impose some sort of change that makes the game pointless.  Honestly!  You take away the best part of the game, and make it completely pointless.  If this is not corrected soon, you will be losing myself and about 20000 other players.  I said my piece.

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3 hours ago, Lewiatan said:

They would have to rewritte entire AI and implement basic pathfinding in this game. Currently dinousaurs only detects the surface of the Island. They are blind to other obstacles. That's why people loath going anywhere on land with their dinosaurs on fallow mode, because they are getting stuck constantly. No wonder why people use flyers for everything.

Wildcard, do you want to encourage people using land dinos more often? Improve AI and pathfinding finally.

TOTAL FRICKING AGREEMENT WITH YOU ON THIS ONE.  I ONLY LIKE TO TAKE ABOUT 2 DINOS, BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSTANTLY GETTING STUCK ON EVERYTHING.  FIND MY T-REX STUCK ON A TINY ROCK AND JUST DANCING STUCK ON A ROCK THAT IS ABOUT 2 FEET TALL.

 

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Just now, kak said:

This! why change the rates and go evolution events when you cannot move the resources easily anymore?

 

10 minutes ago, Gankt said:

My issue with the changes is the amount of things they affect all in one fell swoop.

Farming is the main issue, the speed reduction and the 100% weight added to platforms make farming literally everything from metal/wood to meat slower than the original rates a year ago.  Now that to me this is puzzling because WC increased the rates to 1.5, id imagine because they clearly felt their population did not want the game to feel as grindy as it had in the past.  These changes more than revert that change.  Rates are now effectively below 1 if you add together travel time to node and amount you can carry.

On a similar note, its like giving people a year at x20 then going to x1.  Explain how you expect anyone not established to catch up, they simply cannot.  A tribe with 1000 turrets and full ammo already made has an exponential advantage not having to farm that stuff at this point.  A change to farming like this should have been done with a full wipe or not at all.

My suggestion is to play with speed/HP/stam numbers to fit what is needed for PVP and your lore vision, but dont make this more like mincraft than it already is and revert the weight changes.

The only other thing im not a fan of is the Wyvern special attack stam cost, its basically unuseable. Reduce the cost dramatically and reduce the damge to compensate if needed.  Maybe increase stam cost of pickup to compensate as well.  But it is just dumb having to land after one fire breath, or for that mater not being able to take off after using one.

 

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5 hours ago, Pach said:

Perhaps not, but it's certainly a trend worth noting.

The Steam Reviews are a very good metric, though, especially since they break it down into "over all" and "most recent".

Overall, this is a great game.

Recently, Something Bad (tm) happened.

Either the Devs will realize they made a mistake, roll this back, and find a more appropriate fix for the PvP problems, that doesn't impact PvE (imho, they should add a bunch of server configurations to max flier speed for each class, and let the admins decide how they want to handle flying speed, and perhaps tweak a few problems with specific flying dinos...)...

... or Classic Fliers will become a new favorite mod of a LOT of players... :P

 

HONESTLY - TOTAL AGREEMENT HERE - the thing is - PVE is not PVP, and it should be a separate system, different mechanics.  I do not agree with making your fliers useless, but one other thing - i didn't have any server lag because i could not move or go anywhere.  seems more like a server lag fix for the admins than it does for the pvp system

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12 hours ago, GhostRSA said:

Yeah a 500lbs flyer carrying a 6 tonne Rex is very realistic........ Realism here is based on the fact that it is a game and it is not only played by 8hr a day hardcore gamer but also by the 2hr a day casual and having him/her grind at the same pace as the hardcore guy will always leave them trailing and eventually falling off and eventually ARK will become like the dinos we love in game, extinct.

A casual player will NEVER be on the same level as a hardcore 8hr player, doesn't matter what you do to the game. Unless they put upper limit restrictions (only 2 rexes, only 20% imprint, no tames that a 2hr player couldn't tame etc.), the person with the most time will always be better off than the one with less. Tame numbers, tame levels, amount of materials, amount of PvE skill, PvP skill, recovery from wipes, imprint schedules, all that jazz. 

I could see how they could make a 2 hour session in ARK way more meaningful (most tames with base materials like meat and berries shouldn't take 2 hours anyway) but unless they are going to put an upper limit restriction on things, yeah the 8hr player > 2hr casual player. Not a "get gud" speech, just the way it is.

13 hours ago, BobRoss said:

i dont think PVE should be spared by this nerf, PVE players need to work equally as hard to obtain the resources they need. hell they even need to work alot less than PVP players because PVP players need to constantly replace stuff and PVE players do not, they also dont ened a million turrets filled up with bullers, multiple layered walls, and so on and so on.

Problem is most PvE players don't want balance. If you gave them a flyingTitano with 60,000 weight, 3,000 base speed that collects metal they would be like "Hell Yeah!" and use that for the rest of their lives. Some don't want that, but they're kind of a minority. PvE players just want to satisfy their desires to acquire insane amounts of materials and kill everything (with no risk of being killed because that baby was hard to raise), building ludicrous super structures for aesthetics, not function.

Which is why I was just suggesting that the team make a "Creative" mode for these types so they wouldn't HAVE to play the original PvE or PvP modes.

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2 minutes ago, LilNastyGurl said:

A casual player will NEVER be on the same level as a hardcore 8hr player, doesn't matter what you do to the game. Unless they put upper limit restrictions (only 2 rexes, only 20% imprint, no tames that a 2hr player couldn't tame etc.), the person with the most time will always be better off than the one with less. Tame numbers, tame levels, amount of materials, amount of PvE skill, PvP skill, recovery from wipes, imprint schedules, all that jazz. 

I could see how they could make a 2 hour session in ARK way more meaningful (most tames with base materials like meat and berries shouldn't take 2 hours anyway) but unless they are going to put an upper limit restriction on things, yeah the 8hr player > 2hr casual player. Not a "get gud" speech, just the way it is.

Problem is most PvE players don't want balance. If you gave them a flyingTitano with 60,000 weight, 3,000 base speed that collects metal they would be like "Hell Yeah!" and use that for the rest of their lives. PvE players just want to satisfy their desires to acquire insane amounts of materials and kill everything (with no risk of being killed because that baby was hard to raise), building ludicrous super structures for aesthetics, not function.

Which is why I was just suggesting that the team make a "Creative" mode for these types so they wouldn't HAVE to play the original PvE or PvP modes.

You sort of get what I like (as a PVE player). Some would like Creative, but others like me just don't want to trust their fate to a 13 year old or some sociopath, so would rather play with adults working together in PVE and not play PVP.

Ya, we do it for fun, so the bigger, badder, cooler, faster, creatures we can get our hands on the better. :D

 

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i like there vision for wyverns "king of the sky'......with low stamina. either the dev that came up with the idea was in a severe car crash before work and has undiagnosed brain damage or has some form of early onset altzheimers or they really are that clueless because they dont play the game they made. you cant have a creature be "king of the skies" and be slow and have low stamina the two concepts mix like oil and water.

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