TheRightHand

Re-balancing the Fliers, Mk. 2!

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1 minute ago, Typh39 said:

I do agree with the fact the Spino ,rex and Giga should be given roles. As for a Giga's weakness, I haven't seen many, they outrun tamed dinos, they outrun people on feet, and when enraged everything becomes 4 times harder. The only 'weakness' I see is that it becomes a double-edged sword when a tamed one is enraged.

The Quetz was used to tame these, ones with platform saddles. If our quetzes are forced to land, then the wild ones should too.

Was used? you still can, 4  behemoth metal gates, lure it in onto a bear trap, shut the gate, sit ontop of gate, shoot. technically you could do this without any fliers just a fast mount. but obviously riskier.

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15 minutes ago, TedyBearOfDeath said:

I completely disagree, I believe this was the right approach and it makes perfect sense to do it this way. One big nerf with small buffs. What should have been different was they should have made sure everyone understood there would be buffs before the nerf dropped. Many if not all had no idea the nerf wasn't the final numbers WC was going for. There would have been a lot less chaos if they would have communicated better.

Frankly, no-one even knew what the nerf was going to entail... they snuck it in on the 29th (On the original day 256 was supposed to come out) right after delaying it for a day... and then another day. All without any information on what it'd 'mean.' Let alone giving any indication that there'd be adjustments made to the result.

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1 minute ago, HighFlyer15 said:

Humoring the idea of a balanced game. Yes, mhmm, such a weird and unnatural way to approach a game with PvP in it.

Doesn't matter if all the PvE people decided to download that mod in hopes of it reverting their flyers(psst, it doesn't do anything. You'll need to tame new flyers for it to be effective), Wildcard is sticking to this decision. Just like when they balanced the dinos in the first place. It made the game better overall.

People fleeing to a mod with old unbalanced flyers won't make them change their mind on assigning roles to the flyers. But keep humoring yourself with the thought.

The mod was updated to correct that, go back and look at the page. Worked fine when I used it. Tamed a ptero, no mod, slow. Added mod, back to normal, and speed can be increased. I don't know why everyone is so hot to claim it doesn't work.

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Just now, Zederia said:

" Taming Giganotosaurus is a dangerous prospect. Its rage reaction, even when tamed, can sometimes cause it to briefly turn on members of its own tribe. Indeed it may even throw off its rider if it has been sufficiently angered! And yet, the sheer size and immense power that the Giganotosaurus possesses means that some factions endeavor to tame it as a fear-inducing "capital" beast of war—even at great risk! "

 

Here's a term you should understand:

Apex Predator. as in, it's the be all end all of predatory creatures

Taming a Giga is laughably easy with the correct tactics. 

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5 minutes ago, Probitas said:

Why are people so hung up on how other people play the game? If you don't like them don't use them. I understand though that it may be harder for people to prevent travel if they can fly far above out of sight. I think that is what people really hate, they cannot track from the ground and have to get up in the air properly to see them and cannot do much to stop them up there either, particularly when someone can stand on a saddle plaform and fire guided missles at you. Well, it takes aircraft to combat aircraft. I'm not seeing anything OP about the usage as they were (thought there were crazy high stats and levels introduced from breeding). Just reading a lot of people complaining about how hard it was to adjust to a fully three dimensional battlefield.

The problem with this is if we wanted to use them they were still way over powered and made it boring. I like flying my petras, but it shouldn't be so powerful that I can kill alphas with it and be untouched. Other than farming dinos that was all I needed. By putting them into specific roles it makes us chose and gives us a reason to use other dinos.

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Posted (edited)

The reasons given simply don't add up... 

On 04/04/2017 at 6:01 AM, TheRightHand said:

You could live on the back of a Quetz perpetually after getting one, never even having to land...

I don't know anyone who lives on the back of their Quetz and never lands so how can you justify this as a valid reason?

On 04/04/2017 at 6:01 AM, TheRightHand said:

giving people the option to remain endlessly airborne with giant mobile chaingun/gatling/rocket platforms high above the world and out of range of any threats.

So reduce the effectiveness / range of weapons built on mobile platforms. Introduce flack cannons into the game that people can use to defend themselves of their bases which when fired reduce flyers stam/speed... These solutions solve the problem you have highlighted without ruining the experience for the many 1000's of players who have no interest in PVP.

It seems to me WC have just approached this totally in the wrong way... Instead of bringing out intelligent and thoughtful solutions to the perceived problems they have just spent 5 minutes changing a bit of code which has a far wider negative effect on so many.

I have nearly 3k hours in the game, that's 3k real hours where i really played, not just spawned in some stuff to sort of see how its used.. 

Why don't you really start playing your own game... Test how long it really takes, how many times your really die and loose all your gear just to establish a foothold on the Scorched Earth map. Then really risk losing everything you have gained so far to try and get a wyvern egg.. Then really get up every 4 hrs round the clock to raise a wyvern..

Then and only then will you be able to really know how your changes based on a spreadsheet have ruined your game for many 1000's of players.

Edited by Bark

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, HighFlyer15 said:

Humoring the idea of a balanced game. Yes, mhmm, such a weird and unnatural way to approach a game with PvP in it.

Doesn't matter if all the PvE people decided to download that mod in hopes of it reverting their flyers(psst, it doesn't do anything. You'll need to tame new flyers for it to be effective), Wildcard is sticking to this decision. Just like when they balanced the dinos in the first place. It made the game better overall.

People fleeing to a mod with old unbalanced flyers won't make them change their mind on assigning roles to the flyers. But keep humoring yourself with the thought.

The point of letting people have private servers was so we could decide how we want to play the game.   We can put on mods or not (glad someone around here is not pushing that mod),  My whole server was designed for people who don't have hours upon hours to play everyday.   We can make progress and not take months to do it.   Giving us the INI would make this possible again.

Edited by Irkalla
clarification

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1 minute ago, ShadowLexi said:

Frankly, no-one even knew what the nerf was going to entail... they snuck it in on the 29th (On the original day 256 was supposed to come out) right after delaying it for a day... and then another day. All without any information on what it'd 'mean.' Let alone giving any indication that there'd be adjustments made to the result.

It was also really nice of them to not even mention the swimming speed nerf at all anywhere and just slip it in for people to discover.

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1 minute ago, Probitas said:

The only real difference between a land dino and a flying dino is size and weight of the dino. When nature designs for something, it does not gimp them by default. An animal the size of the Quetz is going to have the strength and endurance to function adequately, it must to make genetic sense of it. Evolution does that. This is why penguins no longer fly. It was easier for them to swim.

I understand, I still feel that for the games sake and not realities sake this could be another alternative look at making fliers workable. a simple, you carry more, you have to take more breaks, just like any person or creature would have to in real life, if I carry all my shopping in one trip, i'ma probably be more tired afterwards then if I just did one bag at a time.

 

It may not be SOUND logic, but it's what I feel would be good/interesting to have :)

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Now more than ever, the playerbase would benefit from a recipe that allows us to test the new changes on the fly... AKA a Dino Mind Wipe recipe.

The changes aren't even my biggest concern with this patch - it's the fact that the dinos I've been using all this time are now "gimped" to the new stat meta.

If I had a way to update my current dinos to reflect these new changes, I could better play in the new ARK universe and see how all these changes apply correctly. As it is, I'm left with a difficult choice - play with the dinos I enjoy playing with because they're the ones I've grown familiar with, or embark on taming all new dinos just to re-level to appropriate stats to try these changes.

Frankly, most do not want to go through that process just to test changes out. I want to use my favorite dinos I have now.

A Dino Mind Wipe recipe would let us do this properly. It should exist in the game, even if it is only for Early Access use. If it was available right now, I'd be way more excited to try the changes and play the new game. As it is, I find myself very unexcited to log in as I wait to see the "final" changes down the road.

Please consider it, a lot of players are requesting this and want it in the game to help with all of these very powerful changes.

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Just now, Amnesty said:

Was used? you still can, 4  behemoth metal gates, lure it in onto a bear trap, shut the gate, sit ontop of gate, shoot. technically you could do this without any fliers just a fast mount. but obviously riskier.

Yes, because that is now the 'only way'. it doesn't always work, the Quetz Tame method didn't work all the time either. It also is almost impossible when one tries to solo tame.

 

But this thread is not about a Giga. back on topic.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

The big broad nerf hammer has been swung, and as the Senior Gameplay Designer on the project, it's my job to try and communicate as much and well as I can about what's going on with changes like these. I also have to make it a priority to iterate with you, the community, on stuff that impacts you, even if I'm not great at it all the time. That's part of our whole philosophy.

I hate to sound like the Dead Sea, and as salty as it sounds, why did it take three days to do this, why is this, pretty much, the first time in Wildcard's history that you've actually opened a discourse with the community, and do you plan on following the thread? As good as it is to have direction, creative process being what it is, there needs to be a dialogue. Not just a "This is what we did and why, how are you going to deal with it so we can nerf that within our vision too?"

14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

We very much see fliers as needing to have distinct roles, and we feel this way about every dino, but each day only has so many hours in it, and there are a huge number of priorities that we have before we do a lot of balance stuff. In their state before this nerf bat, fliers were largely non-distinct, and speed was a critical issue across the board. The game had become largely "get a flier, rule the world", and this started as early as a Pteranadon. 

I believe you are misidentifying the issue entirely then. The issue isn't "Get a flyer, rule the world" it's "Get the fastest thing in the game, so you can play the game and not live on it 25/8."

A lot of this games progression boils down to speed. Movement speed. Gathering speed. Speed. Efficiency. The reason that this game boils down to this so incredibly heavily is because, even with the fastest and most efficient mounts/gatherers, this game borders on being a second job if you want to play Multiplayer. Particularly PvP

14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

There were many PvP implications in flier speed, not only did it make snatching, C4 bombing, and Quetz Grenading huge, easy issues, but it had underlying repercussions in the overall pvp gameplay space with regards to trivializing the land dinos which we actually want to see in battle, and giving people the option to remain endlessly airborne with giant mobile chaingun/gatling/rocket platforms high above the world and out of range of any threats.

Out of range of real threats, except the biggest threat of all in any game, an enemy player (Or not, because the balance of PvP highly encourages offline raiding, but I'm sure I can address that later). 

You can't assault a base with flyers. It doesn't work against any base built by someone with more then five hours in the game and a rudimentary understanding of the game. With the exception of C4 Wyverns and Cluster grenading, which exploited the lag inherent in a server under attack which cause turrets to become highly impaired, if not outright non-functional, you needed Turtles, Brontos and Paracers to make any headway on a ground attack. Flyers were viable for defense, if the opposing side used turtles or uncovered Brontos/Paracers, but that brings up another point.

We have the ability to craft space suits. Why can't we craft seatbelts for our saddles? That largely nullifies any of the points you have, as it encourages ground PvP on stuff besides Brontos, Turtles and Paracers. 

14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

There were also PvE implications. The ground game was essentially trivialized. You could live on the back of a Quetz perpetually after getting one, never even having to land... ever, really. 80% of the game was easily ignored because the air is safer, more straightforward, etc.

I can ignore things as easily on foot as I can on a bird, and I gurantee I can ignore the world just as easily on the back of any mount with any amount of combat ability or movement speed capabilities. 

This is a sandbox game. With levels. It is a game based on progression. You do acknowledge that progression based games only work when they trivialize content, right? So naturally, you're going to be trivializing content when you tame, probably, the hardest tame in the game, a Quetzal. You probably, to be honest, should be trivializing the entire game when you've reached the end game. That's kind of the point, isn't it?

 

14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

Both of these statements are true, but in the long run, the way we choose to make these changes are with broad strokes, followed by incremental buffs. That's how we work. There are other companies that do it differently, and that's good. For an in-development product, however, this is how we chose to do it. The end result will be the same, the only difference is where the outrage is felt. Either you guys get furious at us over several weeks as we nerf your fliers again and again, making them weaker and weaker, and you hate us for that, or we do it all at once and buff them, and you hate us all at once and then things get better.

So you guys are going against several accepted case studies of consumer psychology because that's how you work?

I mean, more power to you, I suppose, but I do have to point out that it isn't just "Other companies" that do it differently. It's the vast majority of companies, and there are/is very strong reason(s) why they do so, supported with actual scientific study on how people react to things. Change is hard. Extreme radical change, as you undoubtedly see in your internal numbers, and we can see through Steam Charts and Reviews, are/is a bad choice because a percentage of the customers you just angered with these radical changes, left, and won't return. Given it doesn't really matter as Ciabattaroll pointed out in another thread, you already have our money, whether we continue playing or not, by and large, doesn't matter to you. (Sorry if I sound callous, but really, that's how it is, even if you care on a personal level)

14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

Don't ever let anyone tell you not to express yourself.

Your moderators have been doing quite a few things to discourage expression and feedback. Ciabattaroll (A representative of yours to the community, volunteer or not) responded to one feedback thread saying "It doesn't matter if you quit, Ark doesn't care, it will go on" and "Wildcard already has your money, so go ahead and quit". They have been condensing threads to the point that it becomes impossible to follow the thread you were originally in as it gets mixed into about twelve different conversations, and even your own employees have been giving wildly conflicting, and in some cases, condescending replies to the community at large. 

Late Edit, but this is a pretty good example;

18 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

 2) they're just tired of just listening to community feedback 

While some of this is not explicitly saying "Don't express yourself", it jades, and upsets the community (Which is demonstrable), and contributes to the same thing, maybe even more so then outright saying it. 

14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

If you have a feeling, if something we did made you feel a certain way, express it. You are not wrong to feel that way. It is your own feeling, and you have every right to express it. I've seen a LOT of people telling each other what is and is not okay to express, and I don't really like that. We have to have thick skin to be developers. We know sometimes you just need to say a string of expletives at us. That's fine. It's not CONSTRUCTIVE, but it's fine. 

Ok, I'm going to broach my personal concerns about this patch, and likely string expletives at you. Sorry in advance.

I play PvP. I play Official PvP mainly. I play the game, as you intend .

I used to spend an hour or two each day, farming for a couple weeks, so I could go enjoy PvP on another server for an afternoon or a weekend (Like fishing, you don't always "Score"). I was content with that. I might growl a bit about how grindy it is, but, inevitably, I would do it. So maybe that was the right balance, or close to it. 

Now, with the Quetzal nerf, I will spend an hour or two each day, farming for a couple months, to enjoy the same PvP

Does that sound acceptable to you? It doesn't to me. I don't mind the flyer nerf, I understand why you did it even if I don't agree with it. However, what I don't understand is why you felt the need to arbitrarily increase the amount of time it takes me to do, well, basically anything in the game. This game was, even before this, one of the grindiest games in existence, and I've played Everquest, played Free in multiple F2P games, played pretty much every hacker/shooter looter game in existence. This game has so much stick (Work) involved in getting to the carrot (Enjoyable content), that the vast majority of your playerbase plays unofficial with various accelerated rates and various QoL mods.

Now, to delve into even more complex concerns. PvP specifically, and the current meta.

You nerfed Quetzal Farming, which basically hamstrung the production of Auto Turrets and Bullets. You gathered these materials at a linear rate. You did, basically nothing (10% HP nerf), to hamper the main cost of raiding, which is Dinos. I can breed, pretty easily, solo, using only my Garden, 50 Turtles a day. Now, they have around 8k base Health now, and fully imprinted, and with a couple levels, they're basically 10k per. Easily. Every day. Now, to extrapolate the numbers, each turtle basically has 50k eHP (Shell reduction), without taking into account any leveling or saddles. A primitive Saddle has a 50% reduction against Bullets, so basically double that EHP. Each turtle is at 100k eHP now. So, let's run that against the damage done by turrets. I raised 50 Turtles @ 100k eHP each (50*100000=5,000,000 eHP), now turrets do 154 damage per shot (70 Damage * 2.2) to dinos. In order to "Balance" the two sides (Offense and Defense), just at this junction, you would need to farm up, roughly, 32k Bullets. It just gets worse as we consider things like Mate Boost, Imprinting Resists, better saddles, and rotating turtles for passive regen in between. This is without addressing Diplo/Paracer/Bronto with Veggie cakes as well. 

I should point out, as well, that not only is the offense heavily favored in the above calculation (Especially now, with Quetzal Farming basically being deleted from the game/meta), that the raising of turtles, and leveling them up, is largely a passive process thanks to Phiomia/Dung Beetle/Farm. 

The results of this imbalance (Where the attacker is *heavily* favored), is a PvP meta that relies, and centers around, extreme ecocide (AKA Wiping). This kind of meta heavily dissuades actual PvP, and heavily encourages things like Offline Raiding, as a base that took months to build, can be "Hollowed"(Or raided and nothing left inside) in a matter of hours, using materials that would take a tribe weeks, if not days to create (Offensive materials are naturally four to six times more efficient then defensive materials, as defense needs to cover four to six different "Angles" on average, but offense only needs to penetrate one "Angle").

You can see this imbalance on the official PvP network where large tribal warfare doesn't involve huge PvP fights all over, but systematic extermination of any tribe not directly aligned with the Spartans/VDD/BLDX nation.

14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

Our overall goal with this re-balance is to define roles specific to each of the fliers. This is a monumental task for land dinos, and that is why we didn't do that now. There are like a hundred land dinos, and not many fliers, comparatively.

The roles look something like this:

  • Ptero - Fast, sprinting scout, with low hp/stamina, but quicker stamina recovery. Fastest flier in the game (except for wild wyverns).
  • Argent - Tanky fighter, can scrap well and take some hits, high stamina/carry weight compared to all other fliers (except Quetz), while still maintaining some agility.
  • Moth - "beginner" mount, lowest stats across the board for explicit travel or fighting, but a powerful special attack for specialized use.
  • Pelagornis - Versatility flier with generally low stats, but unique functionality, and other special abilities to offset its lack of direct stat power.
  • Quetz - Sky Bronto. Slow, extreme stamina, extreme weight capacity, good for prolonged sieges or for moving massive quantities of things to and fro. High health pool, but extremely poor maneuverability and very vulnerable.
  • Tapejara - Tactical flier. Between the Argent and Ptero for overall stats, but with multi-mount support and latching abilities, it can carry well armed players in and out of the battlefield or to remote locations.
  • Wyvern - Lord of the skies. Low stamina, moderate move speed, poor agility, but extreme power and versatility. 

A couple of things;

Ptera's need more Stamina. Point A to B travel is intertwined with Stamina. As it stands, on open ground, a character runs almost twice as fast as a Ptera flies if he makes suitable investments in Stam/Movespeed (I posted a video in the Jen Reaction thread. Someone made it from Herbi to Carno in 8 minutes with a Ptera, I ran/swam it in 5). 

Quetzal's need enough speed to deal with Titanos. Your latest change basically made Titano taming impossible because nothing can kite the Titano like the mechanics demand.

Wyvern's need to have the Stamina cost of their breath attacks lowered a comparable amount if you want to target their mobility specifically. My Wyvern had around 3k Stam. It now has 350. It can be flying and use it's breath attack once. Also, it gets out run by Phiomias. I know they were too fast before. Please make Wyverns able to actually Hunt. 

 

Also if you could universally implement a mechanic, for a limited time, that allowed us to reallocate Dino points, it would be vastly appreciated. The Speed stats got refunded, but when you gimped Stamina, it killed tames that don't have additional points to invest and also didn't refund points priorly spent in Stamina. 

14 hours ago, TheRightHand said:


*Wildcard Times are subject to change or horrible inaccuracies.

Oh, and I should probably take a moment to comment on this as well. I understand that Wildcard time is subject to extreme volatility, but can you work on cleaning up the server messages on Official? The 256 patch had (Servers going down in 15/30 minutes) messages popping up for five hours. I don't mind that it takes you five extra hours to finish/finalize the release versions, but I sat there for five hours doing various chores and watching Netflix waiting for the servers to go down, when I could have been playing the game, because I knew that I might get caught in a bad spot.

Oh, and could you guys do something about Eels being the apex predator of the seas due to their ability to phase through solid objects. 

Finally, I'ld like to thank you for your attempt to reach out to the community, even though, realistically, the community probably resembles a rabid Mongoose. 

Edited by iAmE

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Just now, Naecabon said:

Now more than ever, the playerbase would benefit from a recipe that allows us to test the new changes on the fly... AKA a Dino Mind Wipe recipe.

The changes aren't even my biggest concern with this patch - it's the fact that the dinos I've been using all this time are now "gimped" to the new stat meta.

Its called fair and balanced gameplay. There is a reason why you were using the same dinos "all the time" and it wasn't because you thought they were cute. The devs want all the dinos they put into the game to have a valid use and for players to use them, not just a select few.

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14 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

No I don't seek to have flyers removed from the only but rather that they be balanced vs other dinos. If 90% of players are using just a handful of dinos in a game which has close to 100 dinos then that is a serious problem.

I disagree, not everyone needed or had all the dinos before the nerf. Why does it matter how people use the dinos? It's not a game that forces you to go out and hunt down certain dinos. Not unless you play PVP when competition is king. I don't think attempting to tell people how to play a game is actually very proper for anyone to do. I have some friends who tended to do water dinos the most. Should they have to change too?

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

The nerf was a good idea 

We know you've said, again and again and again and again. We GET IT.

 

Anyway @TheRightHand

Sorry but just not good enough buddy, as someone else already stated, the industry standard is to gradually increase/decrease until you reach a happy medium, not take a huge dump on alot of peoples hard work, 100's of hours of breeding, holidays from work to raise dragons (from a paid DLC no less for just that bit extra salt in the wound) just for you guys to obliterate this in the most destructive and controversial (and exclusively hated, save for a few shills on here) patch yet. Only for you to put on a massive discount and claim more players= success.

17 thousand people downloaded the "classic flyers mod" in 3 days.

45k average players today, so not including all those not playing modded you've basically pushed away half your players (allowing for a %  who play regular and don't use mods)

I just can't see any way of ANY company, let alone shareholders finding this acceptable. I have 2k hours solo in Ark, don't get me wrong this is by far and away my favorite game of the last two years, possibly longer and I've been gaming a long time (I'm 35 now) but you've just gone too far with this nerf.

I simply can't believe a "Senior Gameplay Designer" worth his salt would even have considered this kind of change, it's baffling.

The best approach at this moment would be to completely revert this, admit the fault and then slightly decrease certain areas of flyers until you come up with a happy medium. Alternatively keep everything as it is and go the approach your doing, small meaningless buffs, and watch your steam rating, forums (both here, steam and reddit) continue to shower negativity on the game. 

This damage control post is meaningless, the damage is done and you'll have to work extremely hard (and humbly) to regain your players and respect for how this was handled, not tiny buffs here and there after next to zero communication over the weekend (save for a few unnamed 'mods' calling us salty)

EDIT: Just a sidenote, damage control does not mean that you keep locking megathreads about the patch untill they drop into obscurity in the depths of the forums because they are literally filled with 95% of people against the changes. 

It's just unacceptable, I'm not even angry anymore, I'm just going to be playing something else. Otherwise I will just log in and look at my Wyvern statue (it may as well be), that was 4 sleepless days wasted, a commitment to your wonky and questionable game mechanics. It's a shame you cant show this kind of commitment to your players. 

 

 

Edited by Robersdee

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3 minutes ago, Bark said:

The reasons given simply don't add up... 

So food and water just magicly floats down from the clouds does it? I don't know anyone who lives on the back of their Quetz and never lands so how can you justify this as a valid reason?

So reduce the effectiveness / range of weapons built on mobile platforms. Introduce flack cannons into the game that people can use to defend themselves of their bases which when fired reduce flyers stam/speed... These solutions solve the problem you have highlighted without ruining the experience for the many 1000's of players who have no interest in PVP.

It seems to me WC have just approached this totally in the wrong way... Instead of bringing out intelligent and thoughtful solutions to the perceived problems they have just spent 5 minutes changing a bit of code which has a far wider negative effect on so many.

I have nearly 3k hours in the game, that's 3k real hours where i really played, not just spawned in some stuff to sort of see how its used.. 

Why don't you really start playing your own game... Test how long it really takes, how many times your really die and loose all your gear just to establish a foothold on the Scorched Earth map. Then really risk losing everything you have gained so far to try and get a wyvern egg.. Then really get up every 4 hrs round the clock to raise a wyvern..

Then and only then will you be able to really know how your changes based on a spreadsheet have ruined your game for many 1000's of players.

Actually the food and water thing kind of worked that way. Rain would refill my water bottle, and after the quetz killed a random dino, I would take the meat out and cook it. You really could on the back of one.

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Just now, BulletForce said:

Its called fair and balanced gameplay. There is a reason why you were using the same dinos "all the time" and it wasn't because you thought they were cute. The devs want all the dinos they put into the game to have a valid use and for players to use them, not just a select few.

This completely misses the point and has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. I used the same dinos all the time because I have a favorite Quetz. I have my bears. I have my sabers. I use the Pteras I've grown and raised because they're my favorite. I have my favorite Wyvern. I have my favorite Therizino, favorite Rex. Usually bred and raised by me, leveled by me, used most of the time by me.

I'd like to actually, you know, keep using those dinos. The idea of having to start over and re-tame/re-breed dinos just to assimilate to changes isn't really a very fun gameplay experience at all.

Dino Mind Wipe fixes the entire issue and lets us play as better actual testers.

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13 minutes ago, Jat said:

Just wanted to say to this that we'll be carrying out a pass on our Dossiers at final release to make sure they're accurate to the game. Some should have had some updates as we've gone through development too, so we will be staying accurate to the lore of the game.

While that is a tough pill to swallow, that's better than the alternative.  Thank you for the information there!

13 minutes ago, Jat said:

These are some good suggestions, and we did deliberate quite heavily on the Quetz and their stamina usage. Right now we're going to see how the current changes play out, as well as a slight tweak of how much stamina they use to see what players think. The values you see above aren't finalized, they're just what we're going with in the upcoming update and I expect us to make some more changes following feedback and seeing how it plays out.

While I'm keeping my fingers crossed for further change, that's fair. I just hope there's a middle ground somewhere that would allow for a permanently airborne traveling blueprint shop or other ridiculous but interesting applications.  Thank you, also, for looking into Wyvern bites at the very least consuming less stamina.  Nothing more saddening than your flying, fire-breathing lizard being unable to chomp into a Deathworm without having to back off and flee mid-fight every time.  I also greatly appreciate considering a way to apply the old wasted points in speed for purposes of base level calculations - 190 eggs were hard to find, and invalidating all of that effort was really disheartening. 

And thanks for the information on the "combined" UI option!  That will no doubt make things much easier. 

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5 minutes ago, Lucian said:

The problem with this is if we wanted to use them they were still way over powered and made it boring FOR ME. I like flying my petras, but it shouldn't be so powerful that I can kill alphas with it and be untouched. Other than farming dinos that was all I needed. By putting them into specific roles it makes us chose and gives us a reason to use other dinos.

I added a bit to your post, because what you are claiming is that because you have a personal opinion of your game play that somehow makes it proper to apply that to the whole of the player base. This is incorrect. It is wrong for you and wrong for WC.

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Posted (edited)

@TheRightHand I think you guys are going about this all wrong.     If you want people out of the skies,  do the same thing you did to rafts. and to oceans, and to land for that matter.    Introduce an untamable wild bird that will hunt and target player ridden birds.  And make them spawn often.  We need a Troodon of the sky.     Nobody's living on their quetzal when that happens.     

Make it the same speed as a Tapejara,  but the Ptera, Pela can outrun it.   Bigger strong birds have to fight it or land.  Give it a floor so the bird will not attack under the tree line or something. 

I also would say for movement speed,  let us level up to a cap of 200%.  Give back some of the stamina.  This will allow us to level our birds in a more custom manner vs all points into stam after hitting a minimum weight. 

That's my 2 cents. 

Edited by Kayin

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1 hour ago, TheRightHand said:
  • Quetz - Sky Bronto. Slow, extreme stamina, extreme weight capacity, good for prolonged sieges or for moving massive quantities of things to and fro. High health pool, but extremely poor maneuverability and very vulnerable.

 

Are we getting the weight capacity back? 4k raw metal in a run is rather ridiculous m8

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