TheRightHand

Re-balancing the Fliers, Mk. 2!

Recommended Posts

I must say i am pretty dissapointed in the way the flyers are nerfed. I would have loved to get better flight physics making flying an actual chalange.

The Birds fly like spaceships.

You can crash your bird strait into the ground without taking any damage. Every bird can hover mid air, that should be a special feature of a single bird at best. The Quetz should fly more like a jumbo jet, but its more like a harrier.

Please look into tweaking the flight model itself to make flying more fun =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

Increasing the weight, stamina and speed of the Quetzal is just going to render land transportation obsolete once again. This needs to be looked into again.

I think you misread the spreadsheet. The Quetz doesn't have its speed as increased. Its listed at 360 on both the old and new value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For my part, I understand that flyer balance needed to be addressed for *official* servers. Maintaining balance in that environment is essential, and not easy to do, I'd wager.

I do feel that, even for officials, the approach you took with the nerf was very heavy handed and had effects on the players that were very inconsiderate of the time that has been invested into their flyers - I speak notably of players who have spent untold hours breeding their superior birds. Even if a nerf needed to happen, stripping players of that much of their time and effort seems to me very disrespectful, as someone who knows how laborious breeding a "perfect" bloodline is.

I hope that the improvements you have planned account for that, though I can't imagine what compensation could be offered, at this point.

Now, my request / suggestion:

As I alluded, I understand why this needed to be addressed on official servers, but many of us play on dedicated, non-dedicated and single player servers.

For all of us, don't you think there should be an ini override for all of this?

I play single player, and if I want god-tier wyverns, for instance, I feel I should have that choice available. I recently began a new game, and having my pteranodon and pelagornis annihilated like this has pretty much halted my progress, until I found the mod that overrides this nonsense.

Please give private servers the option to maintain these private games as we individually want to experience them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, TedyBearOfDeath said:

I completely disagree, I believe this was the right approach and it makes perfect sense to do it this way. One big nerf with small buffs. What should have been different was they should have made sure everyone understood there would be buffs before the nerf dropped. Many if not all had no idea the nerf wasn't the final numbers WC was going for. There would have been a lot less chaos if they would have communicated better.

I can see the logic but I've also managed enough changes in big environments (thousands of users) to know that it does not work in the real world, and this is why any management team worth their salary does it the other way. Industry 'best practices' are established for a reason. What is intuitively sensible isn't necessarily the thing that works best statistically.

Edited by Bugg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Typh39 said:

So, Why not just remove it from the game then? That appears to be your logic.

No I don't seek to have flyers removed from the only but rather that they be balanced vs other dinos. If 90% of players are using just a handful of dinos in a game which has close to 100 dinos then that is a serious problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zederia said:

his opinion is valid, fine. but we've heard it enough. in EVERY SINGLE thread about the nerf all he said is "leave it exactly how it is"

and in every thread on this topic that I've responded to I have said pretty much the same thing I said here.   "Give private servers the ability to adjust the INI".  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are people so hung up on how other people play the game? If you don't like them don't use them. I understand though that it may be harder for people to prevent travel if they can fly far above out of sight. I think that is what people really hate, they cannot track from the ground and have to get up in the air properly to see them and cannot do much to stop them up there either, particularly when someone can stand on a saddle plaform and fire guided missles at you. Well, it takes aircraft to combat aircraft. I'm not seeing anything OP about the usage as they were (thought there were crazy high stats and levels introduced from breeding). Just reading a lot of people complaining about how hard it was to adjust to a fully three dimensional battlefield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I have no idea how the speeds in this spreadsheet compare to the speeds they had before. Changing the balance between flyers isn't the issue here at all, I'm not going to compare to the nerf stats because the fliers were just unusable.

If these new stats mean that the fastest attainable mount is like what a 170-200% speed pteranodon used to be then okay, that's probably a better starting point for building it up.

 

Edited by StoobH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BulletForce said:

No I don't seek to have flyers removed from the only but rather that they be balanced vs other dinos. If 90% of players are using just a handful of dinos in a game which has close to 100 dinos then that is a serious problem.

Giga > all

 

So how should this one be nerfed more to the ground than it already is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BulletForce said:

No I don't seek to have flyers removed from the only but rather that they be balanced vs other dinos. If 90% of players are using just a handful of dinos in a game which has close to 100 dinos then that is a serious problem.

I dunno about you, but I used these birds (mostly the Quetz) to build bases to explore the land from, not from the sky, but from the land. Able to traverse t he entire island and then land in the search of dinos to tame was a big part of my game. The Nerf Pretty much made that obsolete, and grounded all fliers. So now instead of Quetzes people will spam Gigas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, HighFlyer15 said:

Did you even bother reading the article? :/ 

I know they want to rebalance,But the unofficial server needs to adjust itself.

We have thousands of mod, unable to adapt to the official adjustment.

This modification is very stupid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one of the most important things being overlooked in why fliers are used so much is because, largely, land dinos are horrible to travel long or medium distance with. The pathing sucks, rex's get stuck on pebbles and this only allows alpha tribles on Offical to further cement strongholds over resources. On a map like the Center, the flier changes, combined with the swimming speed changes, practically isolate locations off.

For many, the fliers were the only real fun way to travel (as can be seen by the 18k+ subs of Classic Flyers), but removing the fun from fliers won't funnel people into using land dinos. It'll just make them stop playing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Amnesty said:

This'll get buried, but my opinion is that fliers should have faster stamnia drain based on how much they're carrying :)

If that makes sense, then logically it follows that ALL dinos should lose faster stamina the more they carry, that would be totally fair then right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Zederia said:

Giga > all

 

So how should this one be nerfed more to the ground than it already is?

The Giga already has numerous weaknesses but I support the notion several other players have suggested that the 3 large land dino predators (Rex, Spino and Giga) be given unique strengths and weaknesses so that they each have a special role.

 

Also in general I would like to see tamed dinos be identical stats wise to their wild counterparts, I see no reason why they should be magically stronger just because they are tamed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Maxanto said:

The fact that you are still humoring this idea proves what I thought all along about WC.

Humoring the idea of a balanced game. Yes, mhmm, such a weird and unnatural way to approach a game with PvP in it.

Doesn't matter if all the PvE people decided to download that mod in hopes of it reverting their flyers(psst, it doesn't do anything. You'll need to tame new flyers for it to be effective), Wildcard is sticking to this decision. Just like when they balanced the dinos in the first place. It made the game better overall.

People fleeing to a mod with old unbalanced flyers won't make them change their mind on assigning roles to the flyers. But keep humoring yourself with the thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

The Giga already has numerous weaknesses but I support the notion several other players have suggested that the 3 large land dino predators (Rex, Spino and Giga) be given unique strengths and weaknesses so that they each have a special role.

 

Also in general I would like to see tamed dinos be identical stats wise to their wild counterparts, I see no reason why they should be magically stronger just because they are tamed.

I do agree with the fact the Spino ,rex and Giga should be given roles. As for a Giga's weakness, I haven't seen many, they outrun tamed dinos, they outrun people on feet, and when enraged everything becomes 4 times harder. The only 'weakness' I see is that it becomes a double-edged sword when a tamed one is enraged.

The Quetz was used to tame these, ones with platform saddles. If our quetzes are forced to land, then the wild ones should too. The Quetzes were at a very high risk when they were used. One chomp and one could go down.

Edited by Typh39

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Amnesty said:

Yup, but it could be significantly less of an impact due to the fact they ain't flying?

The only real difference between a land dino and a flying dino is size and weight of the dino. When nature designs for something, it does not gimp them by default. An animal the size of the Quetz is going to have the strength and endurance to function adequately, it must to make genetic sense of it. Evolution does that. This is why penguins no longer fly. It was easier for them to swim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BulletForce said:

The Giga already has numerous weaknesses but I support the notion several other players have suggested that the 3 large land dino predators (Rex, Spino and Giga) be given unique strengths and weaknesses so that they each have a special role.

" Taming Giganotosaurus is a dangerous prospect. Its rage reaction, even when tamed, can sometimes cause it to briefly turn on members of its own tribe. Indeed it may even throw off its rider if it has been sufficiently angered! And yet, the sheer size and immense power that the Giganotosaurus possesses means that some factions endeavor to tame it as a fear-inducing "capital" beast of war—even at great risk! "

 

Here's a term you should understand:

Apex Predator. as in, it's the be all end all of predatory creatures

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, HighFlyer15 said:

Just like when they balanced the dinos in the first place

This game isn't even close to being balance, playing an Official is a complete grindtastic workfest, akin to the drudgery of work simulators that seem to be popular in Germany these days. People don't play games for work, they play them for entertainment and fun. If you make something boring, people won't play it. Wildcard seems to be forgetting that in their balance passes as of late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.