Re-balancing the Fliers, Mk. 2!

[JaHakk]

What happened to the patch notes between v256.22 and v256.29?

[sshamm]

42 minutes ago, Myj said:

Just use a land dino to commute, man. There are many that are extremely fast, and WAY nicer for a commute than a flyer now. Keep in mind there are other options, if the flyer nerf broke the game for you then don't use them, try and find another solution. Just because you can't keep doing what you always have doesn't mean you lost the means to do it at all. There are other ways, just experiment a bit and see if something tickles your fancy. You may even like it better!

I myself have been trying this land dino thing out since the nerf and to be honest, it has only brought on more frustration and pointed at something the devs should have worked on well before bringing the flyer nerf live...moving about the terrain and the follow mechanic with the terrain. See 2 rocks that should be wide enough to walk between.....nope...stuck and turn around CONSTANTLY. Have a few dinos following you? Nope 1 or 2 are stuck on a pebble. Until these issues are fixed on the ground, I cannot support the speed/stam nerf at all to flyers. I don't care if they changed the flyer abilities to carry, how they carry etc, the game just isn't very fun on the ground in its current state. I want the air game back in its former glory, or I just don't see myself playing much longer. 

[Pach]

17 minutes ago, Volcano637 said:

It's already been 5 days dude. And even if they decided on a rollback it would have already been a week or two.

nobody is going to want a 2 week rollback lol

They don't have to rollback the server data... roll back the nerf.

 

[Lucian]

6 minutes ago, Milsurp said:

It has value when it specifically addresses an issue players have with the game. In this situation, the sub number since the nerf is a number you can rely on as direct player feedback.

I didn't say the sub number isn't valuable. I am saying it's borderline dishonest comparing it to peak concurrent users. It artificially makes it look like a higher percentage of active players is subscribed to it. 

For example. 

30,000 mod subs out of 60,000 peak players is  50%.  

However if you look at recently active players from steamdb it's very different  

30,000 mod subs ou of 596,000 recently active players is ~5%  

 

[Fatdog]

Whike there are quick land movers, it does not solve the current issues with land travel.  I would like land travel more if it was not so aggravating. It's not a challenge, it's an annoyance. 

[Volcano637]

4 minutes ago, Pach said:

They don't have to rollback the server data... roll back the nerf.

 

I think if a rollback happens it should be for everything.

cute cat btw 

[Twin]

The Nerfs will continue until morale improves!!

 

[Ranger1]

12 minutes ago, Fatdog said:

Whike there are quick land movers, it does not solve the current issues with land travel.  I would like land travel more if it was not so aggravating. It's not a challenge, it's an annoyance. 

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks navigation and collision box issues need to be a priority now.  Or failing that, make it a bit quicker/easier to knock trees over and get over rocks... thickly clustered palm trees in particular are a problem.

One plus side to the latter solution would be an increased feeling of power as you plow your way through the jungle on the back of anything Trike size on up. 

[Lucian]

9 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks navigation and collision box issues need to be a priority now.  Or failing that, make it a bit quicker/easier to knock trees over and get over rocks... thickly clustered palm trees in particular are a problem.

One plus side to the latter solution would be an increased feeling of power as you plow your way through the jungle on the back of anything Trike size on up. 

That's definitely something I would would like to see.

I think it should be scaled a bit based on Dino size and tree thickness. Say Rex+ gets to knock down the big trees, but trike+ gets to knock down the smaller trees.

That would make having a caravan much easier and would allow for the big Dino's to be trailblazers  

 

[Guest BubbaCrawfish]

Extrapolate what you like from my responses, but nerf my dodos, and poop will hit the proverbial windmill...

[beeauu]

13 hours ago, KingGalahad said:

Exactly this! Thanks for putting into words what I couldn't!

Thank you for the positive feedback!  I put some time and effort into the post.

I'm new at this and not sure what the protocols are, but I also want to thank all of you that gave me reputation.

It is reassuring to know that many feel as I do about the Flyer nerf and that you agree with my post.

FYI, I just downloaded the latest client/server patches.

I hopped on both my Quetz and Argy.  Sadly, there were no discernible changes.

[Lucian]

7 minutes ago, Noompsie said:

Maybe I am donning my tin foil hat here, but i see a few people in the forums here defending the recent nerf over and over again.  Relentlessly you might say.  I can't help wondering if some of them are being paid to try to sway public opinion.  And just in case that actually is true, here's a heads up.....its not working.

It's basically the same people arguing for and against it in all the threads. It's the same on steam. A new thread gets started and then people pile in. Here at least it's better than on steam. 

And just because we players have a difference of opinion and are passionate, doesn't make their opinion any less valid just because you disagree with it. I find it interesting that you feel that the community cannot have differing viewpoints  

Accusing people of being paid is just trying to devalue someone you don't agree with to make your own point. It's kind of sleazy. 

[slayerofzombs87]

On 4/4/2017 at 6:28 AM, Volcano637 said:

The nerf was a good idea 

no it wasnt. to you maybe in my opinion it was plain stupid and not needed

[Anabella]

On 4/4/2017 at 1:34 AM, Maxanto said:

Right Hand..I just want to point out a mod to you guys.. and in 3 days it has 21k subscribers...

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=895711211

That's right 21k people think your changes are absolute poop. I am one of that 21K. The fact that you are still humoring this idea proves what I thought all along about WC.

Great job pointing that out.  And that is just the people that didn't quit playing.  There are ones like myself that stopped because they don't want to have to download a mod to fix something that should been left as it was.   

[slayerofzombs87]

18 minutes ago, beeauu said:

Thank you for the positive feedback!  I put some time and effort into the post.

I'm new at this and not sure what the protocols are, but I also want to thank all of you that gave me reputation.

It is reassuring to know that many feel as I do about the Flyer nerf and that you agree with my post.

FYI, I just downloaded the latest client/server patches.

I hopped on both my Quetz and Argy.  Sadly, there were no discernible changes.

 

43 minutes ago, Twin said:

The Nerfs will continue until morale improves!!

 

are you dumb. you must be. how do more nerfs improve morale? lol. they bring morale down facepalm

[Anabella]

On 4/4/2017 at 1:40 AM, MurderHobo said:

Please try to remember in the future that it is much easier to lose trust than to regain it.  Your excuse that this is an early access game cannot be used as a crutch for playing silly buggers with your customers.  There is no way you can spin this as being anything but a mistake, a serious lack of application of mind for anyone who knows anything of the history of multiplayer online worlds.  The .256 patch will go down in gaming history now as an example of what NOT to do to your playerbase.

In any business I've worked in this sort of fiasco would have had entire teams raked over the coals.  It is amateurish. 

I'll try your new patch and if (as it seems) you've properly addressed the crippling nerfs then I'll change my negative steam review and happily stop lurking in your forums, but please take this lesson to heart as example of how never, ever to approach balance in your game.

What they are doing is like when some place raises the prices super high on something and then a short time later drops them a little trying to make you think you are getting a deal.  It is a dirty tactic.

[Twin]

1 minute ago, slayerofzombs87 said:

 

are you dumb. you must be. how do more nerfs improve morale? lol. they bring morale down facepalm

It was a joke.

[Midnight_]

So far from what I have seen no PvE players saw this coming and none think it was needed. The only real reason for this to apply to PvE servers is misery loves company. It must be to hard, time consuming, or costly to treat/code PvE separately from PvP. 

[slayerofzombs87]

Just now, Twin said:

It was a joke.

ok fair enough lol. my bad

[treebird66]

On 4/4/2017 at 2:38 AM, Scrysis said:

@TheRightHand

 

I appreciate what you're trying to do.

 

Issues/Concerns (which you probably heard before, but it's worth saying again):

 

Wyvern egg-hunting -- you should not need another wyvern (thus causing the chicken-and-egg scenario) or a small army to gather wyvern eggs.  Argents were chosen to hunt wyvern eggs because they were tanky enough to take an accidental hit or two, but had to be given a speed of at least 180% in order to out-fly angry wyverns.  Solo or duo-hunting eggs has a thrilling and risky challenge to it.  Nerfing argents limits who can steal eggs, when, and how.  If you want to keep the argent speed nerf, this can be solved by other things. . . perhaps by the creation of a wyvern-lure that you can drop that will attract all nearby wyverns and distract them for like 10 minutes or something (just remember it has to distract them long enough with the nerfed flight speed!).  But I do want to point out that the flyer rebalance does create a problem in this area.

 

Solo/duo Quetzal taming without a cage -- This is another area that the flyer rebalance may affect (not sure about relative sprinting speeds. . .).  Argents with some speed on them were used to chase down wild quetzals in order to tame them.  Now this may not affect servers where people trade quetzal eggs regularly, but it would affect new servers/players/etc.  There was a certain thrill to hunting quetzals being suspended from an argent and not knowing where the chase would take you.  I honestly don't know how players will be able to tame quetzals from scratch with the rebalance now.  The only thing I can think of is that perhaps wild quetzal speeds will be lowered so that you can still chase them on an argent.  Pteras won't have the stamina to chase after one now, and I'm unsure how argents would catch a wild one, or even stay in the air for a chase now.

 

Quetzals and bugs -- This is a problem now that you can't increase speed on Quetzals and that they have to land for stamina.  Quetzals are very large, slow, expensive investments.  Flying bugs are very fast, small-moving targets that like birds.  Bugs, with their stamina drain, may keep a Quetzal from using it's large stamina pool.  Worse yet, without additional speed, it will be difficult to attack the bugs with the quetzal, and hard for the player to attack them without hitting their own dino.  I'd like to suggest that maybe bugs become . . . dis-interested in Quetzals.  There will be more than enough things to come and attack it when you come in to land for stamina.  (Edit:  For those of you who suggest to put the bird on neutral and fight the bugs themselves. . . let me remind you about the death-spiral to the upper stratosphere that fighting flying dinos like to do. ..)

 

Ground-pathing on following dinos -- I'm not sure how much control over the coding for this you guys have.  Setting up caravan trains is very diffcult in busy areas with ground dinos.  If possible, can we get dinos that are on follow to climb over rocks in addition to some of the larger dinos knocking over trees?  This may have the effect of enticing more players to tame ground dinos for caravans.

 

Quetzals and stimulants -- I know that we shouldn't get our dinos addicted to drugs, but can we have stimulants give an increased effect on Quetzals (and maybe argents?) for players who have a desire to remain aloft for greater periods of time?  This way, the amount of time airborne can be extended, but at a cost.  This could apply for things like Quetzal cage taming, regular cage taming (like when you're using a Quetz to bring home that perfect dino, and don't want to risk dropping it on the ground and losing it), or even base raids.  Quetzals have a lot of utility outside of mining runs and raids that other dinos don't have (unless you want to give rexes or gigas the ability to carry dinos in their jaws. . . ), and it would be nice to preserve some of it, even if the players have to do a little extra to have it.  

Good post!

[THEODICUS]

OMG PWNIES!!!

Dear WildCard,
Did you really think I'd get so distracted by the ponies that I wouldn't notice WITH THIS PATCH YOU'VE NOW KILLED FLYING, SWIMMING, AND RAFTING FOR EVERYONE? Including those with PRIVATE SERVERS? And NO OPTIONS TO UNDO these horrible disasters? No choices for those hosting a game, using their own resources, to revert to what was working? You are almost 2 years into production and pull a stunt like this? It isn't a game changer, it's a game killer. Without warning, in one fell-swoop, you destroyed what I took hours and days making. Not just me, you've snubbed the entire community. You've lost trust. You've lost credibility. It's going to be hard to get those back, if it is even possible.

I was really into the game. I specifically upgraded my computer to run it well. Over time, I've hosted multiple servers for family and friends and bought extra copies of the game for myself and my family. If you aren't going to reverse this last major mistake globally, at the very least please INTRODUCE SERVER OPTIONS to undo this latest flyer and swimming crap, with DEFAULTS REVERTED to how things were. Then enable this latest series of mistakes on YOUR OWN SERVERS ONLY. Instead of watching people COMPLETELY LEAVE THE GAME, you will only have to WATCH THEM LEAVE OFFICIAL SERVERS.

You haven't fulfilled your promise to optimize the game after almost two years. (Want more revenue? Fix THIS!) Beyond that, there are fundamental flaws in the game that the community has brought up time and time again. Instead, you chose to release DLC for more revenue, and introduce more critters. When your new creations are ignored, you effectively kill what people do use in hopes of making people like and use your new creations.

Here's a DINOSAUR GAME, where you can NOW GET a magical UNICORN! Wheee!
Whaaat!?! When did the 9-year-old girl start running the Ark development team?

Who are you catering to? Want to balance a PVP game? Introduce an option for GEO-IP region-lock by country. Better yet, do that AND have some servers only available during certain hours based on time zone. I've done both of those things with my servers. I also scripted restarts in PVE and PVP modes on timers. To more evenly level the playing field in combat, make turrets, rifles and rocket launchers all have the SAME RANGE and make turrets track better with quicker bullet speeds. I've seen a number of great PVP suggestions on the forums. Just don't kill the gameplay as that kills the game. Those who can spend money on the game and hosting have to work at real jobs to pay for such things. We don't have time to grind for hours on end just to do daily game chores. You've now taken the enjoyment out it.

PUBLISH PROPOSED CHANGES AHEAD OF TIME, and PUT ALL THE DETAIL IN IT. How about, BEFORE you implement Draconian changes, put SUGGESTIONS out and SOLICIT FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY. If you REALLY WANTED FEEDBACK YOU'D ASK FOR IT, AHEAD OF TIME... AND LISTEN. Now THERE'S A NOVEL CONCEPT! You didn't do this. You aren't doing this. Now, instead of changing your ways, you are backpedaling to explain how it's good for us, and HOW YOU'LL BUFF what you WON'T UNDO.

Now we also get a mandatory TEK gear level and a broken UI with a new look and feel. As with Primitive+, can we get a Classic+ (NO TEK) option? The new UI... this was so completely not thought out. Missing features in the UI, removed instructions, people getting headaches from looking at it, no ability to differentiate between icon tiles for those who see color... worse for those who don't. Why? Why? Why?

When I watch YouTube videos about Ark now, I'm only reminded of the Good Old Days. How the way things USED TO BE... back when Ark was fun. Now I watch them with disgust, and think, "Well, that ain't gonna work. It was fun when it did. I even spent HOURS, DAYS and WEEKS to make it happen. Not now. Now WildCard completely screwed me."

If you can't tell, I'm severely disappointed by your apparent lack of care and consideration for your clients, me included, who helped build this studio and this community with our own time and hard-earned money. WE ALSO HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME. We've made investments and want to see it succeed. We had communities built around the game.

Thanks for reading. I hope something comes from this. That's about the only hope I have left for something I've truly enjoyed, and shared with my family and friends. Help me WildCard Kenobi. You're my only hope.

BTW. Even the moderators on the survivetheark.com forums are getting snarky in their feedback.

My wife had an interesting insight this morning, "Maybe the developers are tired of the game and want to kill it." Hmm. I'm starting to agree. So, go ahead and roll the exact same changes out to the consoles too. Let's watch you alienate the rest of the community.

Or, let's see if you can adapt. And how long it takes.

[Ranger1]

38 minutes ago, Lucian said:

That's definitely something I would would like to see.

I think it should be scaled a bit based on Dino size and tree thickness. Say Rex+ gets to knock down the big trees, but trike+ gets to knock down the smaller trees.

That would make having a caravan much easier and would allow for the big Dino's to be trailblazers  

 

Sounds more than reasonable.  Additionally this should apply to wild creatures as well.  There are far too many permanent tree huggers haunting the forests of the ARK.

[arathein]

48 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks navigation and collision box issues need to be a priority now.  Or failing that, make it a bit quicker/easier to knock trees over and get over rocks... thickly clustered palm trees in particular are a problem.

One plus side to the latter solution would be an increased feeling of power as you plow your way through the jungle on the back of anything Trike size on up. 

Agreed, it urks me to no extent when I have a rex following and it gets stuck on a tiny freaking palm tree.  One of the best things about rock elementals (at least up to the 246 update) is they plowed down trees without stopping.  It seems since 246 there is a small pause before trees fall now, but that could be the increased lag over the weekend with 50+ people on these servers. Rock Ele's, gigas, Brontos, should ignore trees and just go right through, especially when sprinting.  I could see a small "push" delay when not sprinting, but not as long as it is currently.  The thinner beach trees and trees like that should be knocked down by Trike +.  Bigger trees for critters Trike-Rex size wouldn't topple for those guy (up to NOT including Rex).  At least with a rex you can bite the tree and knock it down without taking on resources.  I turned off resource gathering with my theri cuz I wanted to clear a section of forest without picking up 400 wood per attack, but apparently when you have resource gathering turned off you can't attack the tree either.

[treebird66]

3 minutes ago, THEODICUS said:

OMG PWNIES!!!

Dear WildCard,
Did you really think I'd get so distracted by the ponies that I wouldn't notice WITH THIS PATCH YOU'VE NOW KILLED FLYING, SWIMMING, AND RAFTING FOR EVERYONE? Including those with PRIVATE SERVERS? And NO OPTIONS TO UNDO these horrible disasters? No choices for those hosting a game, using their own resources, to revert to what was working? You are almost 2 years into production and pull a stunt like this? It isn't a game changer, it's a game killer. Without warning, in one fell-swoop, you destroyed what I took hours and days making. Not just me, you've snubbed the entire community. You've lost trust. You've lost credibility. It's going to be hard to get those back, if it is even possible.

I was really into the game. I specifically upgraded my computer to run it well. Over time, I've hosted multiple servers for family and friends and bought extra copies of the game for myself and my family. If you aren't going to reverse this last major mistake globally, at the very least please INTRODUCE SERVER OPTIONS to undo this latest flyer and swimming crap, with DEFAULTS REVERTED to how things were. Then enable this latest series of mistakes on YOUR OWN SERVERS ONLY. Instead of watching people COMPLETELY LEAVE THE GAME, you will only have to WATCH THEM LEAVE OFFICIAL SERVERS.

You haven't fulfilled your promise to optimize the game after almost two years. (Want more revenue? Fix THIS!) Beyond that, there are fundamental flaws in the game that the community has brought up time and time again. Instead, you chose to release DLC for more revenue, and introduce more critters. When your new creations are ignored, you effectively kill what people do use in hopes of making people like and use your new creations.

Here's a DINOSAUR GAME, where you can NOW GET a magical UNICORN! Wheee!
Whaaat!?! When did the 9-year-old girl start running the Ark development team?

Who are you catering to? Want to balance a PVP game? Introduce an option for GEO-IP region-lock by country. Better yet, do that AND have some servers only available during certain hours based on time zone. I've done both of those things with my servers. I also scripted restarts in PVE and PVP modes on timers. To more evenly level the playing field in combat, make turrets, rifles and rocket launchers all have the SAME RANGE and make turrets track better with quicker bullet speeds. I've seen a number of great PVP suggestions on the forums. Just don't kill the gameplay as that kills the game. Those who can spend money on the game and hosting have to work at real jobs to pay for such things. We don't have time to grind for hours on end just to do daily game chores. You've now taken the enjoyment out it.

PUBLISH PROPOSED CHANGES AHEAD OF TIME, and PUT ALL THE DETAIL IN IT. How about, BEFORE you implement Draconian changes, put SUGGESTIONS out and SOLICIT FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY. If you REALLY WANTED FEEDBACK YOU'D ASK FOR IT, AHEAD OF TIME... AND LISTEN. Now THERE'S A NOVEL CONCEPT! You didn't do this. You aren't doing this. Now, instead of changing your ways, you are backpedaling to explain how it's good for us, and HOW YOU'LL BUFF what you WON'T UNDO.

Now we also get a mandatory TEK gear level and a broken UI with a new look and feel. As with Primitive+, can we get a Classic+ (NO TEK) option? The new UI... this was so completely not thought out. Missing features in the UI, removed instructions, people getting headaches from looking at it, no ability to differentiate between icon tiles for those who see color... worse for those who don't. Why? Why? Why?

When I watch YouTube videos about Ark now, I'm only reminded of the Good Old Days. How the way things USED TO BE... back when Ark was fun. Now I watch them with disgust, and think, "Well, that ain't gonna work. It was fun when it did. I even spent HOURS, DAYS and WEEKS to make it happen. Not now. Now WildCard completely screwed me."

If you can't tell, I'm severely disappointed by your apparent lack of care and consideration for your clients, me included, who helped build this studio and this community with our own time and hard-earned money. WE ALSO HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME. We've made investments and want to see it succeed. We had communities built around the game.

Thanks for reading. I hope something comes from this. That's about the only hope I have left for something I've truly enjoyed, and shared with my family and friends. Help me WildCard Kenobi. You're my only hope.

BTW. Even the moderators on the survivetheark.com forums are getting snarky in their feedback.

My wife had an interesting insight this morning, "Maybe the developers are tired of the game and want to kill it." Hmm. I'm starting to agree. So, go ahead and roll the exact same changes out to the consoles too. Let's watch you alienate the rest of the community.

Or, let's see if you can adapt. And how long it takes.

Well said!

[treebird66]

On an unrelated note: Why are we only allowed to "like" 10 items a day? There are a lot of posts on here I wish to "like".