Re-balancing the Fliers, Mk. 2!

[Lancelot]

12 minutes ago, nEUTRon said:

If you are on the center and live in the redwoods and wanna go to the red obelisk for example, this is a completely different story. Also, i used my quetz for metal AND taming, as it was ideal to stand on it's back while it doesn't loose any stamina. I only can think of different problems now, including beeing over the water a long way and i need to land now or not even able to tame a new quetz now and so on...

You can tranq a quetz off a tapaj. Or with a ptera that you land from time to time, follow the quetz and tranq when you land. I used that method on solo, with no settings changed.

A ptera is good enough to hold narcos, kibble, tranq gun and tranqs.

[popshowit]

To anyone that still says that WC needs to bring back the old flyers, stop being selfish and let WC do there job.

[Orcling]

9 hours ago, TheRightHand said:

• Wyvern - Lord of the skies. Low stamina, moderate move speed, poor agility, but extreme power and versatility. 

 

 Lord of the skies my ass. The bite is entirely useless (not to mention you can only bite a couple times). Extreme power is a joke, versatility is a joke. At best you can get two breath attacks off, then you have to land somewhere. Then your wyvern dies a horrible horrible death because pretty much everything destroys it in seconds because your stamina regeneration is abysmal.

Your description only applies to wild wyverns, who aren't crippled by low damage and stamina restrictions. As they are right now, wyverns are about as competetive as a carno or allosaurus on the ground (because you cant stay up in the air with this stamina, lol). Though i think a Allosaurus would destroy a grounded wyvern very quickly.

This especially applies to poison wyverns with their horrible auto-aim and hitboxes of poison balls. 70% or more of your direct hits don't damage whatever you're shooting at. Now its extra bad because the poison ball stamina cost is so, so much more than it was before.

For lightning wyverns i'd half the stamina cost of their breath, but also half the duration of it. As it is, most of your beam will either hit only the corpse of whatever you're attacking, or miss because you're flying. The beam is absolutely useless while in the air, though, can't hit anything with it unless it flies in a straight line slightly above you.

Fire wyverns are sort of fine the way they are, but they too, like the other wyverns, need a whole lot more stamina.

Can't even fly from the middle of the map to the wyvern scar without landing at least once.

If they are the "Lord of the skies" its only because everything else is just much much worse than them, not because they're good.

I own 24 wyverns on pvp right now and i stopped using them because travelling on a Bear or Thylacoleo is much faster, not to mention those two things are much stronger, too. Since, y'know, you can't fight while airborne anymore.

[Marduuk377]

8 hours ago, Naecabon said:

Now more than ever, the playerbase would benefit from a recipe that allows us to test the new changes on the fly... AKA a Dino Mind Wipe recipe.

The changes aren't even my biggest concern with this patch - it's the fact that the dinos I've been using all this time are now "gimped" to the new stat meta.

If I had a way to update my current dinos to reflect these new changes, I could better play in the new ARK universe and see how all these changes apply correctly. As it is, I'm left with a difficult choice - play with the dinos I enjoy playing with because they're the ones I've grown familiar with, or embark on taming all new dinos just to re-level to appropriate stats to try these changes.

Frankly, most do not want to go through that process just to test changes out. I want to use my favorite dinos I have now.

A Dino Mind Wipe recipe would let us do this properly. It should exist in the game, even if it is only for Early Access use. If it was available right now, I'd be way more excited to try the changes and play the new game. As it is, I find myself very unexcited to log in as I wait to see the "final" changes down the road.

Please consider it, a lot of players are requesting this and want it in the game to help with all of these very powerful changes.

I agree with this, we have Quetz' that have been bred over many generations for speed with weight/stam. All of our points have been put into weight, therefore no refund at all and we have 5k carry weight paperweights. We had a Q fall out of the sky and go splat last night because with the speed/stam nerf, it now could not make it from the redwoods river to the volc rim and fell to its death. WC should have better explained the changes beforehand, and completely reset all points in fliers, we have so many that are practically useless that I've resorted to using our bred bears who have 280+ speed to travel across land rather than have to deal with a 15 minute flight from green obi to the volc rim, a little more risk but it saves me 5 minutes at least on the trip.

[Elucidus]

I'm at work and haven't had a chance to look if this is changed now, but if the moth is a beginner flyer, why does it's saddle come 10 levels after the ptero at level 45?  Shouldn't it come 10 levels earlier at like level 25 instead?  I don't know where the pelo is in that, I don't recall, but maybe that saddle should move too.

 

And yes I agree that birds should not have infinite hover ability, in fact I think that the higher their speed, the more it should drain stamina, that would force a balance.

[Aleyn]

"Either you guys get furious at us over several weeks as we nerf your fliers again and again, making them weaker and weaker, and you hate us for that, or we do it all at once and buff them, and you hate us all at once and then things get better."

A third option would be to start with what you consider a balanced approach, make your case that it's for play balance reasons, and give reasonable people an option to accept the changes and provide constructive feedback, and tune out the naysayers. The approach you chose, alienates people who might have been neutral or supportive and does real damage to community relations.

 

[iDizzy81]

Despite Air Superiority being an actual thing in modern wars, because let's face it, if you cannot control the skies, you'll lose everything else. I think this is the right direction for the game. Personally, i still believe that pteranodons should take self inflicted damage when spiral attacking. I mean it's headbutting things at godly speeds and doesn't get a concussion? People just need to learn to adapt to survive.

[JaHakk]

42 minutes ago, princessoferised said:

How about you recruit tribe members so you cover other time zones? or you build your base hidden? or you have more than one base? or you make alliances with other tribes to protect your base and you theirs when each is offline? how about you mount a pre-emptive strike before they attack you? how about you build a better or bigger base with a better design? Or go play on a server that isn't so unfair to you? or have your own server? Instead of using some strategy in the games, your answer is to make bases that cannot be destroyed while you are offline. That little benefit for you, wrecked the entire flying community, Wyvern raising and just about everything else that made this game amazing. So if you want my sympathy, forget it.

OMG. This is probably the most usless post I think I have ever seen. Yeah sure, Im gonna recruit players in another time zone I cant understand. Alliances do not know when their allies are being raided unless they just happen to be close to your base at the time. Hell they could be offline also. Most tribes have multiple bases. Bigger, better? Hell I seen Chinese take down the biggest base on our server while the base being attacked had players online and take it down. There is not server that is not unfair. How about this. Do what every other mmo does and split servers up into regions. Now that would make sense.

[SpookyJoseph]

Still unacceptable.

[GP]

3 minutes ago, mlwspace2005 said:

>says he is reading feed back, believes they went too far and always knew they were going to have to go back and buff flyers after nerf bat

 

>Nerfs Pteras further

All my wuts

The Ptera is being aligned with its purpose which is a Scout. I agree with the further reduction in  Tamed/Level HP and Melee/Damage because it is meant to be a scout, not a fighter.

The Pteras stamina is pretty much remaining as it is and the stamina recovery speed is increasing.

The Pteras rider speed is getting a 33% increase.

Hardly call that a further nerf.

 

[GP]

Just now, SpookyJoseph said:

Still unacceptable.

Try waiting until you experience the changes then determine whether it's good or not. As they've stated this isn't the last change that will occur, so they need constructive feedback after the next patch is released to see what steps are needed next.

[asaultd]

Ok, i have to write this update is not bad it´s good i have to say BUT!!! Wyvern plz don´t destroy them for all time it´s a important dino they need stamina and not more damage this will not help much and plz destroy not the movementspeed from quetzal or (Wyvern). Quetzal movementspeed change with stamina is not much better they are to slow and when they are full with for example ingots they need a lot of time ); Think about it quetzal is important for all 

[Lancelot]

12 minutes ago, GreenRoc said:

This setting "dinocharacterstaminadrain" has been broken for quite some time, ever since feeding the titansaur was added. I, a private server owner (I dont own the actual hardware, I rent space from BlueFang) have addressed this specific broken config in an earlier post (either in this thread or other related threads). I know it exists, I have used it for so long, and know when it broke. I first posted about it being broken months ago, and is still broken today.

Set dinocharacterstaminadrain to 0.0, stamina still drains from dinos when performing stamina draining activities. Compare it to playercharacterstaminadrain at 0.0, which behaves differently than the broken config, where player characters using/doing stamina draining activities have no stamina drain.

Even if the config gets fixed, dinostamina set to 0.0 doesn't change the fact that flying dino speeds are diminished/capped for us (and unconfigurable without mods), nor is installing a mod an easy or acceptable thing for some of us ("us" me and my server residents). I do not want to burden my residents with downloading, installing, updating mods that have the potential to break or not get updated, which has the potential to indirectly break the server. Another complication comes from my inexperience with adding and maintaining mods on a private server, which I have never done before. One mistake and all the modded stuff can be ruined, or just gone. One of our residents is far better with managing mods than myself, so I'd have to hand the reins over to him, if config options are not going to become available.

I have just tried the Classic Fliers mod for my single player, and it works well. My wyvern has over 1700 stamina. Good.

I didn't know there was an issue with the config, thanks for letting me know.

If there is an issue however,  they should fix it, If it's fixed I think it's a big part of the problem solved for you and other private servers.

[SuperGenki]

7 hours ago, TR-8R said:

God , not this logic again , we do not ignore ground , we use air because they allow us to bypass those bases blocking the way , plus it is a mean for moving around and scouting . However we still have to be on land to farming / taming .

If you get a rex , you are pretty much being ignore by everything except for large dino , more so when on a Giga , is that fun ?

No one ever live on a Quetz , everyone stay in the base .

My man! This is exactly it. You cannot pick players and dinos unless they are tribe players and dinos in PVE. Their role is already reduced greatly. They cannot replace roles like ore, berries, wood, thatch, fiber gathering. We have specified dinos for each of those rolls. For that matter they are not even a great replacement for meat gathering, I'd rather use Rex or Giga for that 100% of the time.

I've been playing Official PVE since week two of EA release, and this is second time I've been frustrated by WC's choice of direction. The first was having the breeding mechanics take way too much time and effort. There were a couple creatures I was able to squeeze into my schedule to breed on occasion. One being Argentavis, which this nerf has utterly ruined all positive progress on.

For me there is a fine line where grind as good game play mechanic becomes an insufferable task. Ark crosses that line all too frequently, but it's manageable because you don't have to do everything offered by Ark to make positive progress, and there are ways to shortcut a lot of it. This nerf is different in that it's ruining something that has become essential to good game play and shortcutting insufferable tasks: transport. The reason I don't often go out with a ground dino train is because the AI pathing is broken. There are just too many rocks, trees and bases to get stuck on. It's never that I'm worried about wild dinos with the exception of Giga and Alpha Rex. These being rare and completely avoidable just leaves me challenged by poor mechanics, which is never good game play.

 

[SpookyJoseph]

Just now, GamerPerfection said:

Try waiting until you experience the changes then determine whether it's good or not. As they've stated this isn't the last change that will occur, so they need constructive feedback after the next patch is released to see what steps are needed next.

No, the changes are unnecessary and game-breaking. I was experiencing a game with massive lag spikes, clipping beyond what should be considered okay, and a bunch of other things I'm sure they are aware of. These went unfixed while providing a nerf that adds what? A pain-in-the-ass mechanic restructure. Time wasting nerfs with no benefit are unacceptable. Plain and simple. Doesn't bother me much to quit. Doesn't bother me to let people know this game went from great to extremely poor with one update. Doesn't bother me to let new players know not to play this game in it's current state. Enough with the excuses and defensive behavior. Make the game playable and fun again.

[Vex77]

I agree flyers needed to be tuned down or "nerfed".  The amount the Dev team has decided to reduce stats and movement speed is way too far.  I know they are buffing them slowly but I don't see a huge increase to speed I feel like I am flying a blimp not an actual bird.  

 

My biggest gripe with this change is simply the time it takes to get anywhere.  I play on a private/modded server with boosted stats and breeding for the reason It doesn't take me a week to breed a single dino.  I don't have the time to do that.  If they continue with this path I feel they will lose a serious amount of players because they don't have the time to get anything done.  

Dev's think about the player base some of them have children or work more than 1 job so when they log in for an hour a night to relax and have fun it shouldn't take them that entire hour to pickup some materials to work on their base.

 

Off to paint my snail Turbo orange and race my quetzal.  Pretty sure the snail will win.

 

Vex

 

 

 

[JaHakk]

56 minutes ago, Blank3k said:

Official Offline Raid Protection servers exist, though as I play on them they are quite good but in recent months The Island servers have become unplayable due to the massive lag spikes (even killing 1 dino for meat is a ball ache) or dominated by alpha tribes who raid anyone who plays without permission.

They really need to put up some more ORP Servers, and preferably some ORP-Centric patches just to improve quality of life.

I don't know what server you play on but there is no offline raid protection on the server I play on.

[Texas389]

As a new player with only 69 hours in game, all singleplayer, let me tell you how this effects me.

Anything I need to acquire in game that only spawns on the North side of the map, I can't go get because I don't have fur armor yet. How am I suppose to acquire fur armor, if I can't make scissors or tame a Ovis? When this stupid slow flier of mine has to stop in the snow 10 times, I end up freezing to death.

That is what this flier nerf boils down to for us new players. Your veteran players may have their own reasons of why or why not the nerf should have happened. But from the game I play, this flier nerf breaks the entire game for me. I can't advance on or do anything because of the stupid nerf. 90% of the time I have been playing singleplayer, so why does this stupid nerf effect me at all??????

If you are going to change something with the fliers, then spawn all those precious resources all over the map, not just up north. Otherwise, every new player that comes into the game will be like me and mad because you simply broke the game for us. Nothing more.

[Sylphet]

Still poop just take out the nerf no-one wants it

[Lancelot]

Just now, Vladson said:

Part of the problem for part of the players - is not a solution, it's more like $1 discount on a Ferrari

Private servers have access to change settings, that include gather rate, taming rate, sleep/day time. Private server are mostly for players not satisfied with the regular pace of the game.

If you play on official and want to follow ark preset settings, like I choose to, then you are subject to gameplay change has this is early release.

And the "problem" only refer to players who actually think this is a problem, some of us actually welcome the change, while proposing some minor tweaks.

[iStephano]

I wonder when games lost the tittle "games" not "real life" limitations in that sense.

[Lancelot]

2 minutes ago, Texas389 said:

As a new player with only 69 hours in game, all singleplayer, let me tell you how this effects me.

Anything I need to acquire in game that only spawns on the North side of the map, I can't go get because I don't have fur armor yet. How am I suppose to acquire fur armor, if I can't make scissors or tame a Ovis? When this stupid slow flier of mine has to stop in the snow 10 times, I end up freezing to death.

That is what this flier nerf boils down to for us new players. Your veteran players may have their own reasons of why or why not the nerf should have happened. But from the game I play, this flier nerf breaks the entire game for me. I can't advance on or do anything because of the stupid nerf. 90% of the time I have been playing singleplayer, so why does this stupid nerf effect me at all??????

If you are going to change something with the fliers, then spawn all those precious resources all over the map, not just up north. Otherwise, every new player that comes into the game will be like me and mad because you simply broke the game for us. Nothing more.

Fur is hard to get early game. Put some points in fortitude, make a hide armor kit. Kill pelt dinos on the fringe of the biome, you can kite them where it's warmer for you most of the time.

[steffeeh]

I just want things back the way it was for now, then once you've done that I'm sure the audience will be very happy do discuss any changes to make flyer dino less OP by giving the necessary time for a major opinion to settle down (for instance with the help of polls, and what not).

Otherwise people will probably just override the stats in the .ini-files if they're on singleplayer or private servers (and several will probably join them and therefore ditch the official servers), or there will be a mod out there in no time overriding this nerf.

[Marduuk377]

7 minutes ago, Lancelot said:

Fur is hard to get early game. Put some points in fortitude, make a hide armor kit. Kill pelt dinos on the fringe of the biome, you can kite them where it's warmer for you most of the time.

that or kill beavers which spawn all over the map

 

[Texas389]

Thank you. Now maybe I have a chance to advance. But really us new players don't know this stuff before hand and this game has such a learning curve, you might be able to see where I was coming from. But thanks again, I'll go try it.