Re-balancing the Fliers, Mk. 2!

[[EG] Comdriver W31]

3 hours ago, Massmerize said:

change kibble so that it (also?) needs resources which are obtained by killing different dinos (prime bronto meat was one example given i think) instead of making everyone wanting and waiting around dino eggfarms, if certain resources can only be farmed by certain dino's / are easier to obtain with certain dino's it would make them obiously more interesting, same goes for ressources like (onions, caveberries, and other unaccessible/unharvestable by flyer objectives)

THAT IS AWESOME!

keep eggs only for breeding and make dinos drop special meat of their kind to make kibbles!

that will fix so much stuff in ARK!!!

if devs are not going to do that I'm looking for a mod for that

other ideas are nice too ofc, would like to see all that in game!

[xXVingasXx]

Well i saw all the stats and u asked for a feedback soo here i am.

You're nurfing pteras too mutch just because they were strong before the nurf but now look at your values, he has less everything than the others, less hp, less stamina, more "Flying stamina consumption", with that values they cant scout, as you sayed your intention is that the ptera is a scouter, soo it should have a better stamina, a less flying stamina consumption, but should have way less hp, like maybe 1/3 of what he as right now and less damage.

Why? basicly because when im scouting enemy server im outnumbered, they are 15 or 20 and im alone or with 2 more people bests, soo with that stamina consumption and with that stamina they'll get me when i run out of stamina, cause ill not have time to hide inside the trees or something, scouting is not for fight soo thats why im telling you too cut down their hp and damage.

Well the Quetz with that health they still a pain in the ass, cause you cant whip him, he's extremely slow now but he as a good stamina and now that you cant pump speed what will u pump? yeah exactly we will probably see quetzls with a lot of stamina and 30k+hp, that is too mutch soo i think you should lower it a bit, about the weight, that is nothing, with that numbers we are hable to reah the 5000 wight myabe, but that is 2000 ingots, and in my stage of the game i barely can make one longneck and bullets for it... soo you're making a 1:1 weight thing on the platform from what i understood soo you need to give good weight to the quetzals, like 10k+, the speed is too bad, farming is boring, flying with a quetz that as 100% is ever worst, soo plz make it a bit faster, just soo it doesnt become a extremely boring thing traveling or fighting with quetzals.

About the argentavis, it looks realy good for me...if i could change something on it, maybe just give it a bit more damage, but i need to test it first soo lets just leave it this way...

the tapejara just like the ptera is consuming too mutch stamina, from what i saw that stamina consunption is just too mutch, the other tapejara values looks prety good.

Well you want to make the wyvern the "Air Terror", but whit that stamina he can barely send two RMB, soo plz put a better stamina for it, they had poor stamina before, now i didnt even try it because i new that i would have killed them all

ill not speak about the Moth neither the pelargonis because i never liked it and i just used it a couple of times.

well thats it, sry about my bad english, hope you understand everything and hope it is usefull

 

Cheers,

Vingas

[iAmE]

Just now, TheLastNerb said:

I would agree, compound bows do an insane amount of damage to fliers. I dont think they need to nerf them for all dinos, as its the only real effective way of stopping a bronto/paracer push, but for birds I think a nerf of those would be pretty balanced

Well non-bullet (IE Metal Arrows) have a specific damage multiplier against Flyers specifically. I was mistaken on my last post, as it's been decreased when I wasn't looking, but currently Metal Arrows do 1.5x damage to Flyers. Which basically means a 250% Compound Bow with one Metal Arrow does 750 damage, base. Which is 2250 damage with a Headshot to Ptera/Quetzals. Double that for the 500% Compound numbers. 

That multiplier would need to get nerfed. Particularly considering Metal Arrows ignore most armor, which is a huge amount of effective damage increase (Essentially double those numbers again to get a rough idea of how much effective damage a metal arrow/compound bow does). 

[Ahkram]

This re-balance of the fliers was NECESSARY.
Thank you for all the effort you put in this.

The concept of the fliers is extremely precise. I would make just few adjustments in the Wyverns Stamina Cost for the special attacks. The special attacks drain too much stamina and with this changes, it is really important to re-escalate that too.

[Lumitesi]

I think that right now, one of ark's biggest problems is that it's lead designer seems to rely solely on spreadsheets to balance the game.. Because I'm sure that on the first flyer nerf, all numbers seemed fine and dandy on the spreadsheets, but the truta is that if you actually hopped on a v256 server before release, there is NO way you tried a Ptera and said "yeah this is how it should be". Don't get me wrong, spreadsheets are awesome, they're a great way to keep lots of info gathered and organized. But one number you can't store in them, is how things feel. And the feel is what has always made Ark so good. Yes, somethings have been op, somethings have been broken, but overall Ark has always felt great and fun. With this latest nerf, it doesn't feel so good anymore. It feel tedious. Everything outside my base takes way too much time. But I'm sure these numbers looked great on your spreadsheets. Just like the new ones do, the balance between them and everything. But as someone who plays this game way too much, it's blatantly obvious that this is not enough. Just like it should have been obvious to you that the first "balance" was way overnerfed. 

So my suggestions:

- Play the game more. I have no doubt that the devs do play the game, but it really feels like for instance, when nerfing fliers they hopped on a server, rode one for 20s and said "yeah it's good". Don't do that. Actually try and do what your player base does. Try flying from one end of the island to the other, notice how it takes 30m to go and get back. Try searching for a high lvl mount. If you really did this, you'd have realized how tedious and boring you had made the game. 

- When making changes like this, I understand how your design methodology works, but you gotta rein it in a little. I understand needing to overnerf, but in reality you overshot the mark by a million miles and every extra inch made your playerbase needlessly frustrated and angry. I know numbers like this are hard to get right, but once again, no way you hopped on a Ptera and said "this feels good like this". 

Just my 2 cents @TheRightHand

[Qu33n0f1c3]

I don't know a single person in PvE who lived permanently on quetzals in the sky. The flying mechanic with platforms is too glitchy, especially when carrying Dino's.

What really bothers me about all this is you, Jaylt, and the other devs, telling us how we should and shouldn't play. I get that PvP needs balancing. And that's your core experience, that's fine.

But PvP is NOT PvE. There is a REASON I chose PvE over PvP. There's already stuff we can't do, like pick up wild Dino's, so WHY are PvP balances being forced on us pve players? 

I play for fun, to breed, I only tame when new stuff comes out, then I breed. The oven servers I played on were communities. We all helped each other. We would trade kibble or fert eggs or stud out our male Dino's. Now, it's almost impossible to do all of that. 

We can't fly far from base, it's a chore to help someone out now. And on top of it all, we have you telling us how we should and shouldn't play. 

Pve is not PvP. Stop treating us the same. There's no need for all these balances on pve as no one is fighting each other.

All this has done has made a lot of people quit, I'm pretty much stuck in the back of redwoods on the center, and trading and helping has halted. All everyone does now is complain, and I want to tell them to have faith in the devs, but even I am losing faith. If it takes a half hour to fly across the map, I'd rather spend that half hour in another game where I can actually make progress...

 

And that makes me sad, because a game that inches helped my depression by taking me to a fantasy world is now just stressing me out.

[princessoferised]

At some point, designers have to realize that their game is no longer in their control, but player driven. I guarantee you that players would eventually come up with clever solutions on their own. But like bad parents, you never gave us a chance to combat these strategies on our own, but rather took the keys away. The only ones unhappy were the ones not using their noodles to solve their problems. For example, if roaming Quetz Doom Castles are the problem for the ground, they could tame their own and mount a defense. Letting the game play out on it's own, is more satisfying to your customers. Micro managing how we play, does not. Your function now is to fix bugs and introduce new fun stuff. Not destroy hard work and squash game play down to the lowest common denominator.  

[Blarneytoo]

Really appreciate the time you took to post this. Not everyone is a forum warrior <g> checking in everyday. While very disappointed in the huge nerf, I do look forward to seeing how you balance this out and define the roles of all dinosaurs.

 

[Rofelo]

Please diminish / borderline remove stamina useage for attacks and special attacks.

[iAmE]

3 minutes ago, Qu33n0f1c3 said:

 

But PvP is NOT PvE. There is a REASON I chose PvE over PvP.

 

Did you just skip all the posts (Including the first post in this thread) where he specifically says that that nerfs were for PvE?

[gigamonster]

Has to be one of the dumbest ideas yet.  If they go though with this then everybody needs to complain to PSN or Live and get their money back cause I know I am. Tired of wildcard trying to pander to a bunch of cry babies cause argys and pteras are to tough.  Give me a break.  

[Brometheus]

So if your currentley working ont hem an this is not the final stage then PLEASE DO NOT bring the changes to console until you have worked them out on pc first then give us the final addition it takes much longer to get changes implemented onto console were as pc you can update an change when ever you want theres really no need to implement the nerf to console especially pve until you have worked it out an hit your final numbers since you know these are not them why give us somethign that is going to change its a waste of time

[Qu33n0f1c3]

1 minute ago, iAmE said:

 

Did you just skip all the posts (Including the first post in this thread) where he specifically says that that nerfs were for PvE?

I didn't skip anything. I addressed it in my post.

[DARKxASSASSIN22]

i only really use quetzals and wyverns. so those 2 are the only fliers im actually upset about being nerfed. the quetzal is supposed to be able to get you from one base to another "without tiring". we shouldnt have to land 5 times between the red ob and the volcano...... as for wyverns, i wouldnt be angry about the nerf if you would remove the stamina drain from the breath attack. please remember that wyverns require stamina to use their breath attacks and if the stamina drains faster, how the heck are we supposed to be able to use our wyverns at all? we might get 3 attacks out before dropping from the sky..... please, wildcard, think these things through. i get that you want land dinos to be used more, but you are making your fliers completely useless yard ornaments......

[FaeWraith113]

I am a week one player with several thousand hours invested in the game.  The second I could tame a low level Ptera, I think it was a 39, I did and got the heck off the threat infested, glitchy, and sight-line limiting ground.  I have lived as far above sea level as I could manage ever since.  I have bred some of the highest level Pteras available on any official server.  I probably would have quit the game in the first week if I had not had the option to live out my dreams as a little boy and go soaring through the Triassic skies.  I mention all of this because I am a flying oriented player.

As such, you didn't hear me whining about the various land dino nerfs over the last year.  I have no idea if any, other that the original raptor nerf were actually "needed."  When de-buffs were applied to Pteras, they didn't fundamentally change the characteristics, and thereby the nature, of the animal, they only adjusted the archetype.  It feels like the most recent update works more to change the usage archetype for all flyers and force folks to play the game the way the devs want...which is certainly a legitimate goal for folks who have poured their lives into creating a space for us to play while also providing the devs with the ability to buy luxuries like food and toilet paper.  However, every choice has consequences and some players will find the new "balance" the final straw that makes the immense time commitment Ark requires for end-game content access no longer worth it.

I have not decided yet whether I will be one of them, though on a side note, I am finding it hard to grind even more just to perform basic end-game functions.  I would also point out that every poster has a perspective, and it might be healthier if more people owned theirs.  I assume most of the people saying "it needed to happen" are focused/get more enjoyment out of the ground based portion of the game's content and most of the distraught, vocal posters in opposition are, like me, the aerially inclined.  So much of our modern discourse, and I include forums here, is filled with both vitriol and false authority.  Own your position while realizing that it is just your opinion, not The Holy Truth of Proper Game Development handed down unto you by some most high Divinity.  

I really don't like these changes.  It feels to me like they ruin my favorite animals and punish me for choosing to spend my time developing and enjoying the aerial side of the game.  Games like Destiny, recently, have illustrated that it is nearly impossible to ever balance a game that has integrated PvE and PvP gametypes. Keep trying Devs, you've got something really special here and I have loved my time in your sandbox.  Follow your vision and thank you.

@Jat

[Sigin]

3 minutes ago, princessoferised said:

At some point, designers have to realize that their game is no longer in their control, but player driven. I guarantee you that players would eventually come up with clever solutions on their own. But like bad parents, you never gave us a chance to combat these strategies on our own, but rather took the keys away. The only ones unhappy were the ones not using their noodles to solve their problems. For example, if roaming Quetz Doom Castles are the problem for the ground, they could tame their own and mount a defense. Letting the game play out on it's own, is more satisfying to your customers. Micro managing how we play, does not. Your function now is to fix bugs and introduce new fun stuff. Not destroy hard work and squash game play down to the lowest common denominator.  

and that where you are horribly wrong ... if some game mechanic is so OP that it makes every other mechanics useless then it needs to be nerfed, not just let be for everyone to use ... let your quetz castle be example ... ofc i can build one of my own if enemy has them ... but how does it help me when enemy offline raids me? i cant mount any automatic defense on it, but enemy can use their quetz while destroying my base when i am offline ... thats exactly mechanic that should be changed, not left alone for everyone to use

[iAmE]

1 minute ago, Qu33n0f1c3 said:

I didn't skip anything. I addressed it in my post.

Oh really.

8 minutes ago, Qu33n0f1c3 said:

But PvP is NOT PvE. There is a REASON I chose PvE over PvP. There's already stuff we can't do, like pick up wild Dino's, so WHY are PvP balances being forced on us pve players?

Then why do you make points like this half a dozen times in the post? 

I mean, you kind of maybe sort of addressed it in your post, but it doesn't seem like you even understand or internalize what you're saying. 

[Qu33n0f1c3]

1 minute ago, iAmE said:

Oh really.

Then why do you make points like this half a dozen times in the post? 

I mean, you kind of maybe sort of addressed it in your post, but it doesn't seem like you even understand or internalize what you're saying. 

I edited my post for redundancy and spelling mistakes.

But it doesn't change my opinion.

No need to be rude. I know what I said. I understand it. It's how I feel.

[gigamonster]

3 minutes ago, Sigin said:

and that where you are horribly wrong ... if some game mechanic is so OP that it makes every other mechanics useless then it needs to be nerfed, not just let be for everyone to use ... let your quetz castle be example ... ofc i can build one of my own if enemy has them ... but how does it help me when enemy offline raids me? i cant mount any automatic defense on it, but enemy can use their quetz while destroying my base when i am offline ... thats exactly mechanic that should be changed, not left alone for everyone to use

well then offline raid them! stop crying about somebody to strong for you

[Lancelot]

I love what you guys are trying to accomplish with the patch. Here are some notes I have to let you get to what you are looking for.

Ptera: Put the speed a bit Higher

Quetz: Raise the stam ALOT, but have quetz lose stam when players standing on it fire, recoil is a thing and should influence the mount.

Argys are fine, maybe a bit higher speed.

Tapaj! I'm glad tapaj will be more useful now, they are harder to catch then the ptera and IMO should be viewed like his upgrade.

 

And no, the game is not ruined like so many players call it. If private servers choose to download the new mod, maybe it has something to do with the fact that most of those servers have increased rate(EZ MODE).

Private servers can also change dino stamina! There's an option for it, they act like theyre isn't.

[iAmE]

1 minute ago, Qu33n0f1c3 said:

I edited my post for redundancy and spelling mistakes.

But it doesn't change my opinion.

No need to be rude. I know what I said. I understand it. It's how I feel.

I'm not being rude, just pointing out that you blaming PvP players and PvP balance for these changes is a bit of the victim blaming game. Really, if anything, PvP players should be mad that PvE players made a nerf this drastic necessary. 

[Sigin]

Just now, gigamonster said:

well then offline raid them! stop crying about somebody to strong for you

yes ... tactic to kill someoen when he cant defend himself ... exactly reason why i play this game ... if hurting someone while he cant defend is your goto tactic then you are person i dont want to have anything to do because you are below me ... and i hope that this game will see offline raiding gone ASAP because there are also playing ppl who has real life with job, family and friends ...

[Iowan]

2 hours ago, GreenRoc said:

I hope they add this soon, or tell us that they will add it later... or tell us they are not adding it, and explain why (explain with a reasonable explanation that doesn't align itself with "one" style of gameplay that not everyone agrees with).

The number of posts asking for configs to counter these nerf changes for private gameplay is numerous! You could look back and count them, it's a lot. I almost posted with quotes of everyone asking for the same thing (in different words), but decided not to, because of how large that post would be.

Can we please have Wildcard tell us "if" they are considering adding these configs? Or are we left in the dark on this too?

At the bare minimum it requires one short answer.  "Yes we will" or "No, we will not."

[JaHakk]

1 hour ago, TheInverse said:

I think the nerf is great, but we need a server launch option to revert it in case on my own server I want the Pre-Nerf flyers, for PvP the nerf is glorious.

You think the patch is so great that you want the ability to turn it on and off at will. smh

[Qu33n0f1c3]

Just now, iAmE said:

I'm not being rude, just pointing out that you blaming PvP players and PvP balance for these changes is a bit of the victim blaming game. Really, if anything, PvP players should be mad that PvE players made a nerf this drastic necessary. 

I don't understand your logic or why you're so intent on bothering me about my opinion. I'm not going to change my mind on it.