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Mega Thread: Flyer Rebalance - Thoughts and Feedback.


Jatheish

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Just wanted to create a mega thread to help centralise the feedback for flyers. I've gone ahead and locked the prior patch discussion thread (as there were quite a lot of replies) and I am going to be reading through all the responses to that, as well as anything else I've been tagged in over the few days. The team have had a few discussions regarding the patch so far based on the feedback, I would also like to get my bearings to see where everyone's at, what the primary concerns are, etc.

As I mentioned in the other thread: please try and stick to that topic and let's not be so hostile towards one another. Everyone is going to have an opinion, and they're allowed to! Don't give someone a hard time just because you disagree with what they think. If you have a post that you'd like to do separately because you feel it's an alternative approach that may derail current discussion, by all means go for it, we'll check it out but our mods will be redirecting discussion to this thread.

When the update was released, Jen had created a post for players so they could learn more about it, if you haven't had a chance to read it yet you can do so here:

 

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real simple: follow the dossiers. Argents should be able to stay in the air for a while, not quick, but long. Quetz should be able to move BASE to BASE, this is in the dossier, make them slow but LONG haulers, like brontos.

Pteradons are supposed ot be scouts "the fastest way around the island" That's in the dossier. make them quick, REALLY quick.

 

Furthermore, make sure the claims on patch notes are exactly that.

 

I linked to you on twitter, I will link here too, pictures showing patch notes were 100% incorrect on the stamina nerf.

 

 

 

 

Also, Jen's post noted a 50% nerf, there is more than a 70% nerf on ptera and argent. that I can verify 100% the patch notes are a lie, and it's disgusting

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My tribe and I on official, Spent so much time to get the wyverns, was scary and hard, and this is why I am feeling sad about this change.

Most of the people supporting this are PVP players, which I'm totally fine with their point of view.(as they are feeling pain from flyers the way they are).

But what about us? PVE players, Who enjoy the building and hanging out with a bunch of people like myself who have a busy real life, and don't want to spend lots of time travelling.

 

what about my hard work with the wyverns? (i have done them prior to dino transfer to SE) do you imagine the time lost for these useless things now? I have a busy work where 40 hours a week is not near enough (IT, Operation department.. YUK! :| ).

I really wish they had thought of ALL the players before doing this change, and No, I don't think they are actually going to boost the stats a bit now, seems they said that to cool things down and by time they will state that "majority are happy with the flyers the way they are now" or "not enough "constructive" feedback received "

 

Anyways this is my 3rd? or so comment on this site so far, but I don't like ranting, so I will carry it to steam to post a review on the game as I think this is the right way and not here as it useless to both sides.

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Make wild dinos perform the same way tamed dinos do. There is simply no reason to not force a game-wide lock on the rules of behavior. If a tamed dino cannot perform an action then neither should any wild ones. It's not really fair that a wild dino can do something a tamed one cannot. Spamming attacks, not getting tired, never slowing down, all these things are artificial difficulties because of a lack of consistency in the application of the rules.

And I agree, if the dossier says one thing but in game it does another, either change the dossier or change the game. The conflict is hard to look at, particularly now.

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?AllowFlyingStaminaRecovery=true

 So far that is the only PVE adjustment that can be made.

?AllowMultipleAttachedC4=true

This one only mattered in PVP, maybe in boss runs (which I doubt).

There is a mod which claims to undo the fix, whether it works or not and doesn't cause any other issues I do not know.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=895711211

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Yeah. Hi. Jat. Uhm. I was flying on a Wyvern and wanted to kill a turtle. I landed for stamina, then took off after the turtle. I was able to keep up with him by flying and sprinting until he hit the water, and then he was faster then I was. Please fix this.

 

Oh yeah. While you're at it, can you address the fact that this game takes hours to do literally any small task, by you know, maybe making changes to decrease the time it takes to do everything, instead of making changes that increase the time it takes to do anything by leaps and bounds?

 

Thanks. 

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In my personal opinion this nerf was needed. At first I was kind of upset but when you sit and think about it, now all the land dinos actually have purpose now other than eating up all the trough food. I think once it settles people will begin to realize how much flyers were a part of the game, too much actually. I think this give a good base for ARK to work off of now. Flyers needed it. Will take adjusting but I'm glad they did it. My two cents

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@Jat is it possible for you to post the teams thoughts? Like what are the goals and opinions on nerfing flyers. What are specific problems are trying to be fixed? Doesn't have to be numbers or anything, just "pteranadon to strong in raiding." "quetz to dynamic and used for everything." "ground dinos not used enough."

I think clarity on the goal will make people less hostile and you will get more focused and constructive feedback. It's early access and we're your testers. Help us help you. 

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 Ptera's is the main form of transportation and the safest when you account for all the critters that can actually eat you while on a ground mount. Tell me how it is feasible on a ground mount to get from the most south part of a map to the most north part of the map and how on the center map to get to volcano island on a ground mount?

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My earlier post about what i think:

"Hello!

Since this patch has so big impact on balance of the game, i decided to give my opinion and some ideas that would might work better instead of what we have now.

It's not easy to balance those kind of things. I mean, the greatest advantage of having flying creature is... possibility to fly! For me it's obvious that if you are able to posses flying creature, life becomes much easier. And it's should be! You can travel fast around the island without big risk and you are also able to transport stuff. WC said they want to put more value on surviving aspect, they don't like the way how players can "skip" land adventures. But we must remember - real life isn't balanced too, planes are much faster than cars and ships etc. Everything has its pros and cons, we cannot just simply denied that. Trying too hard to balance everything can often ruin fun from the game.

So i have an idea that is a compromise between "more survival" and "useful flyers".

In my opinion, WC should bring back stats before nerf and then:

First of all, all creatures (not only flyers) should have different speed limits. For example = Pteradon is fragile, but it's also very fast and agile. So you can level it up to 250% speed.(EXAMPLE)

In the other hand Wyvern is very strong and bulky, but it's not that fast and has a big turn radius, so you can level it up to 130% speed only. (EXAMPLE)

Also faster creatures should gain more speed % per lvl than the slow ones. I mean, you can reach your speed cap in slow creature, but for that you need spend much more points in comparision to fast creatures - they need less points to reach their maximum. So you have to decide what is profitable and what is not.

Which flyers should be fast, and which should be slow - let the WC decide.

Second part - All flyers should be available for riding only at higher levels. And I'm not talking about making saddles, but player restrictions. For example -> You need to reach level 50 to fly on Pteradon, level 65 to fly on Argy, 90lvl for the Wyvern etc. etc. Let's say it is the final prize, and honor for player to mount a flying creature.

The last thing i wanted to mention: Game dramatically needs a total rebalance of every single creature. Quetz with more health than Rex? Dire Bear with the same attack damage as Rex? There are many more examples, and i think that is the most important thing to do in the first place.

What do you guys think about it?

PS. Sorry for my english. It's obviously not my native language, but i'm still learning. :/"

End of quote. :)

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4 minutes ago, JaHakk said:

how on the center map to get to volcano island on a ground mount?

can I take this one step further?:

 

How are we supposed to get about anywhere? the whole map is designed around fliers

1 minute ago, MissG said:

Second part - All flyers should be available for riding only at higher levels. And I'm not talking about making saddles, but player restrictions. For example -> You need to reach level 50 to fly on Pteradon, level 65 to fly on Argy, 90lvl for the Wyvern etc. etc. Let's say it is the final prize, and honor for player to mount a flying creature.

 

Ptera is unlocked at 35, that's where it should stay. 34 levels on the ground is enough at 35 you should be scouting for a permanent home. Other than that I kind of agree. but where you unlock the current saddles should be where you can use them. and wyvern maybe 80, but not 90..

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I love ark as a game, but I have spent countless hours breeding ptreas and getting wyverns. Now all of a sudden they are so bad... I cant even go from one base to another with my birds they are slow and unusable. Im  a Pvp player and I play ark in a pvp fun aspect. My quetzal is horrible as well I cant even make it to red woods before I have to land in dangerous spot. Then boom some wild dinos come and attack it and I dotn have stam... I wouldn't let this happen but in my mind this is a quetzal and it shoundt have to land every 20 seconds so I dont realize. I suggest you buff them back because u guys went a little to extreme on this.. Just go look at steam reviews after update most of my tribe members quit because of flyer Nerf. My official server hates it and iv been on many after update they all dislike,  Im betting the only reason your getting new players now is that the game was on sale and they dint know what you guys have done. I mean come one no one wants to go around the map with a bronto if you guys did this at-least introduce a new land Dino that can have a platform saddle and is fast. Thank you for reading this lol @Jat:D

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15 minutes ago, pwellsua5645 said:

In my personal opinion this nerf was needed. At first I was kind of upset but when you sit and think about it, now all the land dinos actually have purpose now other than eating up all the trough food. I think once it settles people will begin to realize how much flyers were a part of the game, too much actually. I think this give a good base for ARK to work off of now. Flyers needed it. Will take adjusting but I'm glad they did it. My two cents

False. I used all my dinos. I did not use flyers to gather wood, thatch, berries or fiber. Certainly not any great amounts of stone or metal. Same with glass. If some people preferred to use flying dinos that was their choice to do so because you could get more done with the proper dino. That some closed minds think they should force their gameplay onto other players is very troubling.

Can you take a minute and realize just how much they are not a part of the game now? Making vague statements that they'll get buffed some is not a response. It's a maybe.

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This is one of the major changes ARK needed. People were spoiled with easy farming, abusing glitches and no threat when flying around and something had to happen about it and whatever it is, people would be crying over it. The PvP side of the game is finally heading in a good direction and I think we can all appreciate that, even though the nerfs might have been a bit too much.  

PvP is a lot more fun now, you need to fix some other equally game-breaking PvP mechanics (namely flame arrows, clubs and bolas) and the PvP will become a lot more polished but this is definitely a step in the right direction. I'd say return the ability to level speed by little of what it was before, maybe around 1/8 and buff stamina by a bit on all flyers. 

It makes PvP a lot more skill-based, instead of everyone being on flyers and just having a pick up contest, which was mostly luck, or even worse, just having a quetzal with a metal foundation and being practically invulnerable. I think you should remove the metal foundations from quetzals but it's not nearly as bad now with the stamina and movement speed changes. 

The same thing happened with the dino stat nerf a while ago and everyone got used to it and the game has been better because of it. I do think you guys should have provided the option to have the change rollbacked for unofficials/singleplayer/PvE players though.

Overall, great patch. People will always be complaining over change and having their favorite dinos nerfed but this is better in the long run, despite of all the hate going on now.

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2 minutes ago, Probitas said:

False. I used all my dinos. I did not use flyers to gather wood, thatch, berries or stone. Certainly not any great amounts of berries or metal. Same with glass. If some people preferred to use flying dinos that was their choice to do so because you could get more done with the proper dino. That some closed minds think they should force their gameplay onto other players is very troubling.

Thanks for the quote! I stand by my opinion though. Quetzals now aren't the sole method of pulling metal from the mountains and delivering it back to our base. Will be a fun change to use my bred brontos for all their weight. Imprinted for speed, now lets getterdone!

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3 minutes ago, KishK0 said:

or even worse, just having a quetzal with a metal foundation and being practically invulnerable. I think you should remove the metal foundations from quetzals but it's not nearly as bad now with the stamina and movement speed changes.

This will not stop box quetz. they don't LOST stamina while you're standing on them, just don't GAIN any. so you get ready, move them into position and stand and soak bullets

 

your argument is flawed

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It's simple.  Give us a way to revert your changes on our private servers or my family will move on.  Many of us who play on private servers really aren't that interested in your vision for the game.  In fact, we play in spite of much of your vision.

You took turrets off platforms but allowed us to ignore that with an ini flag.  Please do the same for this flyer nerf.

The folks I play with do not care about your ground game.  Do what you like with official servers.  Please stop &^%&% things up for the unofficials.

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6 minutes ago, pwellsua5645 said:

Thanks for the quote! I stand by my opinion though. Quetzals now aren't the sole method of pulling metal from the mountains and delivering it back to our base. Will be a fun change to use my bred brontos for all their weight. Imprinted for speed, now lets getterdone!

Quetz never were the sole dino for mining. Are you dense? My base was set up close enough to the mountain I could take an anky up and get all I needed. I used the flyer at first just to get a decent anky, now that is no longer an option. Do you think it's fun for people to try to find an anky and get smoked all the time because of how OP wild dinos are in the game? They simply don't follow the same rules that players do. Infinite stamina, infinite attacks, it's nuts.

It's beginning to look more and more like alpha players making sure no one can ever get to a competitive point with them. Even when that has no bearing in PVE.

I think I'm just going to stop posting, there is no rational discourse with people with closed minds. It's like talking to cultists.

How about making speed something NO dino can boost, see how that works with the community, eh?

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With all respect @Jat stop playing elusive and delaying tactics with this "mega thread" methodology. Its obvious no one will take seriously any comments in a topic with thousands of comments, rage, dueling.

Your minions already created this on steam, and you got more than enough responses: http://steamcommunity.com/app/346110/discussions/0/133261369999498057/

Right now it has 4665 comments, what else do you need? 

Please treat us as a customers - I know its hard because lots of us raging by now... but that's not our fault, we got no proper forum and we feel no one listens. Say something specific what we can use, not just generic meaningless marketing BS asking for patience.

You had all the time you wanted to design this patch, no one held a gun to your head to nerf the birds without any proper research. Still you did it, retrospectively ruining the players "work". Lots of hours of grinding got annihilated. It's natural we would like to see something specific. 

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