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Upcoming Patch v256 Discussion Thread


Jatheish

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Guest BubbaCrawfish

Yea, the UI is nice, and same with the new nametag styled stuff, but surely this flyer nerf is a TERRIBLE thing to spring on us...

Had it been said about on the forums, this would've been a severe crisis... But alas, discussions held elsewhere, and we end up wearing it... My Ptera breeding was all for nothing now as their main advantage is wasted on this... So many hours wasted on that front...

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Well, this ought to be interesting!  

This has likely been posted before, but it's probably a good idea to put it up again.

Originally posted by TheRightHand:

Just commenting here so that a lot of people will see it and can echo it elsewhere:

We plan to tweak these numbers a lot based on community feedback over the next few days, this is a starting place so that we can measure feedback and collect thoughts.

If we released a series of nerfs over the next few days, people would be far, far more upset at the continual degradation of their dinos. Instead, we will be able to buff them now until they're more in line with what the overall community feedback tells us. 

We have always worked best through iteration with the community, just make your voices heard and let us know. These aren't final numbers (=

- The Right Hand

If you think back a little bit this is not the first time that a large scale nerf has been rolled out in this fashion... hitting it hard core right out of the gate to get past the initial shock value and then gradually easing things back up a bit at a time until things hit an optimal level.  You have to admit, it does get the worst of it over with quickly and then leads to a more favorable reception when things are eased back some.

For what it's worth, I think most of us knew this was going to come eventually.  Fliers are the group most guilty of invalidating the usefulness of large numbers of other creatures, and negating most of the more interesting combat tactics available to the player base.  Remember the earliest descriptions of the creatures of ARK, and how fliers were described as making travel/scouting easier but also having large drawbacks/vulnerabilities for anything else?  Those descriptions made perfect sense, far more sense than what the game has evolved into where air power is the single most important thing you can have.  Until this patch you had precious little need for much of anything else.

I'm somewhat excited to see how this pans out in the end.

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Here's some constructive criticism, before making a HUGE change to all fliers, at least make an option for non-official servers to disable said nerfs, at least until your public experimenting (and let's be honest, that's what this is) is done and you've settled on a final setting. 

Unfortunately I just logged on and noticed my fastest flier was nerfed. Stupid me just put the points elsewhere. But after that I was so pissed about what had happened that I had to come here. So much fixing that later.. 

Look, I love this game, I love what you guys do, but the logic of this decision is beyond me. Couldn't you have just reset the speed instead of killing the option altogether? 

I also don't like the name calling, and I'm sure you will always get that kind of thing no matter what you do. But just look at the sheer amount of people you just pissed off. 

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3 minutes ago, ranger1presents said:

Well, this ought to be interesting!  

This has likely been posted before, but it's probably a good idea to put it up again.

Originally posted by TheRightHand:

Just commenting here so that a lot of people will see it and can echo it elsewhere:

We plan to tweak these numbers a lot based on community feedback over the next few days, this is a starting place so that we can measure feedback and collect thoughts.

If we released a series of nerfs over the next few days, people would be far, far more upset at the continual degradation of their dinos. Instead, we will be able to buff them now until they're more in line with what the overall community feedback tells us. 

We have always worked best through iteration with the community, just make your voices heard and let us know. These aren't final numbers (=

- The Right Hand

If you think back a little bit this is not the first time that a large scale nerf has been rolled out in this fashion... hitting it hard core right out of the gate to get past the initial shock value and then gradually easing things back up a bit at a time until things hit an optimal level.  You have to admit, it does get the worst of it over with quickly and then leads to a more favorable reception when things are eased back some.

For what it's worth, I think most of us knew this was going to come eventually.  Fliers are the group most guilty of invalidating the usefulness of large numbers of other creatures, and negating most of the more interesting combat tactics available to the player base.  Remember the earliest descriptions of the creatures of ARK, and how fliers were described as making travel/scouting easier but also having large drawbacks/vulnerabilities for anything else?  Those descriptions made perfect sense, far more sense than what the game has evolved into where air power is the single most important thing you can have.  Until this patch you had precious little need for much of anything else.

I'm somewhat excited to see how this pans out in the end.

I get it, but they didn't have to just kill speed upgrades altogether. Tweak with the numbers all you want but killing it outright? Not cool. 

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Honestly I find the game too easy once you get a argent, wyvern or Quetz

This nerf will restore balance and get us more on the ground where the game is really played at.

I have my own PvE server with survivors that end up being friends and we all felt the same so added mods that gave us more challenges.

But those become easy fast too, this update will do us good.

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Im all in with the new nerf, but dont you think stamina is capped a lot? I mean i love the roll cooldown, the lowered HP gain...

But stamina? Really? Even on wyverns i find some with 500 stamina when they had 2k.

Think about the new players and the inability to, for example, take wyvern eggs, or move as simple as from the main island to herbivore island

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On a POSITIVE note, I freaking LOVE the new interface. :-)


Except the bug that does not allow you to remove items from inventories without moving everything in the stack. That REALLY needs fixing. Especially since I have a stack mod and I have to move all 4k of my vegetables (or other item) over just to grab one or two items... Maybe it's an issue the mod needs to work on but I can't even move pre-mod stack without moving EVERYTHING. :-D

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37 minutes ago, syberjedi1999 said:

I get it, but they didn't have to just kill speed upgrades altogether. Tweak with the numbers all you want but killing it outright? Not cool. 

Controversial, I agree.  I suspect the primary reason was to set  the speed differences between the various aerial mounts in stone for balancing reasons... and to make sure that ease of travel was sharply reined in compared to land creatures (in addition to the stamina/weight restrictions).  The high speed available to a high level avian made most territory on the maps nothing more than a fly over zone.  It also made travel in or under water largely unnecessary (except for gathering certain resources) while also rendering the Pelagornis ability to swim or land on the water irrelevant.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the base speed number (or ways to raise it) gets tweaked before the balancing period is over.  That is purely conjecture though.

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38 minutes ago, catakerr said:

Im all in with the new nerf, but dont you think stamina is capped a lot? I mean i love the roll cooldown, the lowered HP gain...

But stamina? Really? Even on wyverns i find some with 500 stamina when they had 2k.

Think about the new players and the inability to, for example, take wyvern eggs, or move as simple as from the main island to herbivore island

Very true, but most of the points I made in the post above can apply to stamina as well.  Acquiring Wyvern eggs and milk may need to be looked at (I haven't experimented with that post patch) but snipe, kite and kill solutions have already been proposed to address that issue even as things are right now.

And yes, for island excursions the Pela is looking a lot more attractive now.

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While not a popular point I do want to remind y'all this IS still an alpha so drastic changes and tuning do happen.  While we do own our copies of the game right now we are basically people testing their game for final product so head bumps like this (that DO suck) are to be expected.

That being said I think my server will probably be down a couple days while this mess gets figured out cause I hate for myself or my players to feel the frustration of devastated dinos.  Hopefully they will read our valid points and reconsider the severity of the nerfs.

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wow, so I played a few hours, updated when the game crashed, its killed me so i jump on my ptera to go get my argie, low level just tamed and it can now fly about 600 metres. I didn't grab any clothes and now lost both of my flyers in the arctic. nice. so pteras can now fly for a few minutes, whining all the way to get knocked out for some mysterious reason. good job

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Verdict of the active players on the PvE server - WTH? As I put it "I liked everything better the way it was before", and there was general agreement on the server chat.

But I will say I like the decay meter on items, and I like how it uses space better. (Edit: I also like how you can drag inventory over without having to change the receiving window to inventory.) Thank you for that. If you took those points and put them into the old interface, I think everyone would be very happy. 

Now the bad:

Flyer nerf: The flyer nerf is extreme and seriously detrimental to PvE. Nobody actually cares if someone's pteras are OP when they have max-level Rexes bred for melee boss fights. They care that their dinos, in which they've invested time and effort, are cool and fun to play. If you have to nerf something for PvP, make a way to nerf it for PvP and leave everyone else to their fun please. Also, the way you nerfed was bad - straight-up dropping levels and not recompensing for levels previously put into the now-capped speed. With a change this extreme, I'd like my L172 ptera to have been reset to the tame level of 100 so I could spend all the points again. 

Inventory: The new inventory UI is frankly worse than the old one. 

  • Can't shift-drag or control-drag partial stacks from box to inventory, can't really even do anything from box to inventory but take the entire stack, then put back what you didn't want. That's bad. 
  • No "Take all from inventory" anymore - that's extremely common to do with dinos, you hit the Take All button, put a little food back and put the rest in boxes, so that's another bad. Edit: found it, just used to "transfer" buttons being in the middle.
  • No evident "Use Item" button in inventory, had to discover you hold the mouse over an item and hit E. That's worse than before, always let people hard select. And for god's sake don't just replace visible functionality with hidden functionality and throw it out the door with no guidance.
  • Boxes still don't stack items when you drag an amount in which would be over the limit of an existing stack, and you can't manually stack them in the box, you have to pull them to inventory, stack them there and put them back. That's the same as before, but if you fixed anything, you should have fixed that constant annoyance. 
  • E is the default Use key, but you have to use Escape to exit. 
  • Chat doesn't always work in Inventory.
  • @JatI got bounced away from a supply drop while in Inventory, then hit by a dilo. My left-click to attack with my pike would not work for a long time. It came back after perhaps 10 seconds. So forcibly disengaging from Inventory can bug your mouse.
  • Blueprints in the inventory are hard to read unless you have the comps to make them light up. Blueprints also have a grid background which further obfuscates the content.

 

Ladies and gentlemen of Wildcard, this is a step backwards in the enjoyment the game previously had. I'm not alone in this, people on the server were all over chat with how displeased they were. Please consider a rollback and more playtesting. 

 

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Is this patch an april fools joke. Because i expected a nurf as in no more putting c4 on any flying dinosaur. Because c4 wyvrens were a major problem. You didnt have to kill flyers and nurf them to the point where its no use even using them. They feel like a hot air baloon waiting to get shot down. I'm hoping this is an april fools prank. Because the Ui is horrible compared to the old ui. Not being able to adjust speed on Flyers especielly wyvrens and ptera's is crazy. And now the stam is so bad for wyvrens you cant even use your secondary attack twice without stam dropping. I don't see how this helps the game what so ever. Those fast pace air battles are gone. And its just a shame. If patch is for real when then it was fun ark. I didn't expect you to ruin such a great and fun aspect of the game.

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everyone saying this will bring back balance, can you please explain how? I have been playing a long while and the one thing Pteras and Argents are is balanced, They are not so hard to come across, tame, or to have the ability to craft a saddle. You just need a bola and crossbow and you can take down a level 150 easily enough solo, even if you are level 10. So they are easy access, safe travellers, which already had their weaknesses and strengths so we all used them, it's not that they were OP, its that the game is designed to be extremely hostile on the ground.

How balanced is it going to be when someone can only live in a shack on the beach, It's safe and comfortable for new starters but when you get to level 50 and are up against 150 Rex's Gigas Allosaurus, and the dreaded turkey raptor, you can't travel. There is no balance when you have to be level 100 with frickin tec tier gear to get some oil and silica pearls. How is it balanced to remove 80% of the island for all but the best land dino's.

I really hope this is an april fools joke, as it can't be for real. If you think this brings balance your idea of balance is wrong

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WAIT! Is this really what you guys replying are caring about? TEK tier and horsies?

 

Hop on any flying mount right now. I'll wait....

Ok, now post your reviews on this update.

Here is mine.

You can't fly away from wyverns on Scorched Earth because stamina is like a sliver of what it used to be. You can't escape from wyverns with eggs at all. Its broken. All the speed feels like I loaded my fliers with stone. A literal fail on the developers part to put this on the front of their notes. This has the largest impact on the game next to the vault sizes - which was good, vaults were never meant for server defense. You just killed like 20 generations of breeding for some tribes and furthermore, with the exception of the quetzal all fliers are pretty much useless. By the way dudes, you can only stand up on two fliers, the wyvern and the quetz. One of which goes crazy when you stand on it, the wyvern, and the other always regened stamina when you stood on it. Also, if I am in Scorched Earth, wyvern milk gathering, killing alpha wyverns, and getting eggs is now near impossible.

Plant X is now much more effective on fliers, causing a near stand still. Do you guys even have testers in your studio? Guessing no.

 

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What is this poop bird nerf? it will take half an hour before I can get somewhere, and after work I do not have time to go around the obstacles on the ground floor of the Wyvern eggs .... can not think longer steal, but do not feel like it after such a disgusting nerf fly.
PLEASE return the money, this game has become a semi-useless, I do not enjoy it!

My all "bird" lost many stamina and speed, and levels.....
I suppose that if you do not return this flyer nerf = error, I have to finish this game, which is a few thousand hours of play time.
I HATE THIS!! Fcking idea, this the nerf......

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20 minutes ago, Titan696 said:

everyone saying this will bring back balance, can you please explain how? I have been playing a long while and the one thing Pteras and Argents are is balanced, They are not so hard to come across, tame, or to have the ability to craft a saddle. You just need a bola and crossbow and you can take down a level 150 easily enough solo, even if you are level 10. So they are easy access, safe travellers, which already had their weaknesses and strengths so we all used them, it's not that they were OP, its that the game is designed to be extremely hostile on the ground.

How balanced is it going to be when someone can only live in a shack on the beach, It's safe and comfortable for new starters but when you get to level 50 and are up against 150 Rex's Gigas Allosaurus, and the dreaded turkey raptor, you can't travel. There is no balance when you have to be level 100 with frickin tec tier gear to get some oil and silica pearls. How is it balanced to remove 80% of the island for all but the best land dino's.

I really hope this is an april fools joke, as it can't be for real. If you think this brings balance your idea of balance is wrong

With all due respect Titan, you say that Pteras and Argents were balanced and then proceed to list half a dozen reason why they were not.  Easy to tame and ride a high level one, even solo.  They offered safe travel even over extremely hostile ground and to high value resources.  Negated the need to deal with (or even see) over 80% of the land territory or dangers of the map.

If you think about it, providing an easy way to avoid most of the challenges in the game was likely not a design goal.  

That being said, if you scroll up a bit you'll see the statement from The Right Hand where he points out that the nerf was purposely extreme to start, but will slowly be buffed back until an equilibrium is achieved... so don't get too stressed just yet.

As others have done in this thread (even some folks that are a bit upset right now) constructively listing specific issues that need to be looked at in detail as the nerf is rolled back bit by bit will be a big help... and hopefully the end result will be a game where most of the creatures and equipment retain their value, and most of the challenges need to be met with ingenuity and heads up game play.

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This is now one of worst patches ever...people spent alot of time on breeding wyverns and other birds...to get their speed and stamina reduced...On Pve , Wildcard didnt take off Titan...so how you expect us to kill them?not many people have 10 good gigas to kill titan....Wyverns with their stamina atm, and with not much lvls to lvl up, cant even do more then 3 lightning attack in air.At least delete Titan spawn on pve officials.Thank you so much for making me consider quiting. Regards

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it's a good thing, at least the notion of weakening flying creatures. life was too safe and easy when you were able to cross the world in just a minute. now it'll make TheIsland feel larger and perhaps lower the chances of being scouted. anyways, i'm curious how the balance will shift in the upcoming few days but yeah, i definitely support the "nerf"

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1 minute ago, ranger1presents said:

If you think about it, providing an easy way to avoid most of the challenges in the game was likely not a design goal.  

That being said, if you scroll up a bit you'll see the statement from The Right Hand where he points out that the nerf was purposely extreme to start, but will slowly be buffed back until an equilibrium is achieved... so don't get too stressed just yet.

So you think balance is the opposite, keeping things difficult for the sake of what? Balance is giving everyone the same chances and opportunities. Where they are not limiting some players because they don't have a tribe or high level land animals. Its pretty hard for a solo to get a quetz, i never bothered, I know what i want and need and go get it, be it for kibble or breeding. I have hundreds of hours put into breeding pretas, argents and raptors on the xbox, i have given all of that up to come to pc, within 1 afternoon i have gone from facing rebuilding my lvl 300 breeds, to wondering if I even want to play the game. I play for the fun, I enjoy the survival part of the game, i just think they are taking it to the extreme for no reason at all, the thyla is the only land animal anyone has interest in riding, maybe they should make ground animals more fun instead of our lifeline, flyers less fun.

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