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You're Ruining The Ocean! (Video Proof)


Crows

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Just now, Velarius said:

I think an easier way to balance this would be to add a form of fortitude to large creatures that counters stuns the same way fortitude on players counters torpor effects. Then you have the freedom to maybe not the fastest megladon/squid/etc but instead have it be more tanky against said stunning creatures so it could actually fight back and not just get stun locked to death. This option both gives players a new option on how to counter stuns without making it game breaking as there is only so many points you can invest on lvl ups.

Im still struggling to understand why they needed to add a stun mechanic to the game at all. That's literally what Torpor was for. What's the point in investing in Fortitude to counter Torpor/Stuns/Sleep effects when half the dinos that have stun/sleep effects circumvent the system entirely?

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8 minutes ago, Wazzamaniac said:

Yeah it is xD But be warned, the tuso can grab your tamed in a bugged manner that makes it unresponsive to anything

 

8 minutes ago, iAmE said:

I've had multiple dinos ranging from Spino's to Mosa's stuck in the geometry. This is your best bet, toss the Plesi on Passive, unclaim her, and try to grab her out of the geometry. Sometimes it will just kill them, but most of the time they glitch out of the geometry.

Thanks for the input! I guess I only have one shot at this lol. I've been wanting to tame a squid at some point anyway.

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3 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Im still struggling to understand why they needed to add a stun mechanic to the game at all. That's literally what Torpor was for. What's the point in investing in Fortitude to counter Torpor/Stuns/Sleep effects when half the dinos that have stun/sleep effects circumvent the system entirely?

I think a players fortitude should counteract stuns and other effects other than torpor received but I can guarantee why they added it in there was because if you breed something large that is 265+ the creatures torpor meter is so stupidly large that outside of players using a tranqs and a lot of them your tame isn't dropping. Whats the point in that instead of out right killing someones tame in pvp? I have a Therizino thats 260+ and there isn't poop on the island with a poison on land that does poop to it.

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1 minute ago, Velarius said:

I think a players fortitude should counteract stuns and other effects other than torpor received but I can guarantee why they added it in there was because if you breed something large that is 265+ the creatures torpor meter is so stupidly large that outside of players using a tranqs and a lot of them your tame isn't dropping. Whats the point in that instead of out right killing someones tame in pvp? I have a Therizino thats 260+ and there isn't poop on the island with a poison on land that does poop to it.

Oh, I know what you mean. I can afk my level 290-300 mosa's next to the sea scorpions and never fall asleep, but I still don't see why that justifies stun effects. Seems to me that it's actually the Torpor mechanic on Dino's that need to be revisited. Electrical Prods and Lightning Wyverns manipulate electricity and impart Torpor, but Jelly and Eels "Stun" you?

 

Just seems like a lazy way to address the problem of Torpor on Dino's being a little out of control. 

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2 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Oh, I know what you mean. I can afk my level 290-300 mosa's next to the sea scorpions and never fall asleep, but I still don't see why that justifies stun effects. Seems to me that it's actually the Torpor mechanic on Dino's that need to be revisited. Electrical Prods and Lightning Wyverns manipulate electricity and impart Torpor, but Jelly and Eels "Stun" you?

 

Just seems like a lazy way to address the problem of Torpor on Dino's being a little out of control. 

Stun could just slow your tame and your attack speed and it would be fine.

If you are unmounted, I have no problem with the current effect however, as you shouldn't swim unprotected in the first place.

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1 minute ago, iAmE said:

Oh, I know what you mean. I can afk my level 290-300 mosa's next to the sea scorpions and never fall asleep, but I still don't see why that justifies stun effects. Seems to me that it's actually the Torpor mechanic on Dino's that need to be revisited. Electrical Prods and Lightning Wyverns manipulate electricity and impart Torpor, but Jelly and Eels "Stun" you?

 

Just seems like a lazy way to address the problem of Torpor on Dino's being a little out of control. 

Well yes, that's my point. Its a huge overcompensation that was lazily planned out, thus you come out with mechanics that cannot be combated. I know players that are at this point if given the choice would rather try to solo a wild giga than risk garbage luck and run into a dozen eels lol.

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Electrophorus is basically the Troodon of the Seas. I lost a Lvl 100 Tusoteuthis (it was max Exp, so Lvl 200+) to a pack of eels that respawned and ambushed me in the Caverns of Lost Faith. They stuck to the side of his head where i couldn't hit them, pinned him to the floor to where i couldn't even escape, then stunlocked him with shocks until he died. That Tuso could chew up and spit out any Alpha Mosa or Tuso, but his worst bane were things like Anglers or Electrophorus that would sit next to his head where he can't hit.

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3 minutes ago, Velarius said:

Well yes, that's my point. Its a huge overcompensation that was lazily planned out, thus you come out with mechanics that cannot be combated. I know players that are at this point if given the choice would rather try to solo a wild giga than risk garbage luck and run into a dozen eels lol.

Well, that might be because a bred and imprinted giga with a decent saddle can chew up most wild giga's without much problem, but the best mosa or squid you can ever get is subject to death via a couple of eels coming out of a rock or geometry. huh :\

 

 

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Just now, Daedros said:

Electrophorus is basically the Troodon of the Seas. I lost a Lvl 100 Tusoteuthis (it was max Exp, so Lvl 200+) to a pack of eels that respawned and ambushed me in the Caverns of Lost Faith. They stuck to the side of his head where i couldn't hit them, pinned him to the floor to where i couldn't even escape, then stunlocked him with shocks until he died. That Tuso could chew up and spit out any Alpha Mosa or Tuso, but his worst bane were things like Anglers or Electrophorus that would sit next to his head where he can't hit.

I would argue these are much worse than troodons. With decent armor you can take a hit or two, they only fight you at night and they don't have an AOE. Plus their advantage is removed once you hop on a tame.

Electrophorus on the other hand... I'm gonna stick with the whale thank you

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13 minutes ago, Daedros said:

Electrophorus is basically the Troodon of the Seas. I lost a Lvl 100 Tusoteuthis (it was max Exp, so Lvl 200+) to a pack of eels that respawned and ambushed me in the Caverns of Lost Faith. They stuck to the side of his head where i couldn't hit them, pinned him to the floor to where i couldn't even escape, then stunlocked him with shocks until he died. That Tuso could chew up and spit out any Alpha Mosa or Tuso, but his worst bane were things like Anglers or Electrophorus that would sit next to his head where he can't hit.

This comparison is so far off its not even funny, troodon's don't stun they use torpor effects. As a player without a tame I've taken on packs of troodons with my pike numbering 4-6 and survived. Try that with 4-6 eels and see where that gets you I dare ya. Not even close in comparison. Granted my characters fortitude is 46 and in flak it helps but since eel stuns completely ignore any fortitude you or anything else has its not even close.

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I went through this with my 207 Tuso, it had around 40k HP and i was at FULL health and as i killed some plesi and mosa's 7 eels flush inside its body and stun me and all i could do was be mount on it and watch his HP slowly and painfully go down. I called out on one of my tribe mates to lend a hand but HE TO got stun and slowly died with me o his 191 Plesi. Now i understand that at current time its BEST to evade eels but its hard to do so when you are attacking something and with there high agro come AT you from a mile away, like in the video you show.
To be fair the eels are rather powerful for such a small creature and able to outright KILL Mosa's and Tuso's like hot knife through butter is unfair, especially for such a massive monster being obliterated by a pack of eels. Alphas are not the danger, its the EELS that stun you when you are proceeding to KILL one, take example the two alpha underwater creatures, The Alpha Tuso and Mosa are scary and strong, a worthy battle that if won will prove rewarding, but if you don't want to fight them just swim up and poof evade them, but eels will chase you to the SHORES and like some mention before DO NOT yield any worth reward to suffer such consequences.

I understand why they add a stun mechanic but the fact they can kill anything in the water that is tamed, is annoying, Yes the Basi was added to counter them, but not everyone has a Basi or can tame one whenever they want, they might be a passive easy tame but not everyone can. Like some said EVERYTHING ins the sea lives in harmony but when they see a tamed traitor, they all hate them. You don't see in the surface a Carnos attack your rex like a savage creature, same with raptor. but underwater mostly EVERYTHING wants you on a plate even if they know its a impossible victory to achieve.

I am aware those where stated before but they are good points that show how the sea is just a hazard place for most people if not prepared, there is no food chain and you have a pack of savage chihuahuas that will kill you if you are not on your couch whale. I just hope once the new update comes they AT LEAST fix the eels in some way that you wont lose everything in seconds, like a longer charge? Like after a shock they will take 30 seconds to recharge and come back instead of a pack eating your face spamming shock, one at a time slowly killing you. if its a big pack and each one shock one after another, YoU dEad at the current time but with a longer charge time they will leave one by one and AT LEAST give SOME window to escape and not lose your 200+ level tuso.

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6 minutes ago, Velarius said:

This comparison is so far off its not even funny, troodon's don't stun they use torpor effects. As a player without a tame I've taken on packs of troodons with my pike numbering 4-6 and survived. Try that with 4-6 eels and see where that gets you I dare ya. Not even close in comparison. Granted my characters fortitude is 46 and in flak it helps but since eel stuns completely ignore any fortitude you or anything else has its not even close.

I was referencing them being the "Troodons of the Sea" for the sheer annoyance factor of them, not just the danger. Can't even begin to tell you the amount of times that i've gone to grab a drop, hop off the mount, and suddenly have a pack of Troodons on me. Troodons are more dangerous on my server too, since Dino Damage is 3x. Makes you paranoid and look all over the place before landing to grab a drop. With Electrophorus, you have to be paranoid as well, and look all over the place before grabbing a sea drop or fighting anything.

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On 3/22/2017 at 7:07 AM, Volcano637 said:

I am personally glad they are doing it. Not saying anything bad about you or anybody but things have been made too easy for people. This is a "survival" game and it should be hard to get even half of what everyone has. 

Especially alphas, they have way too much stuff. It is no longer survival for them.

Your point exactly this is a survival game. Not a MOBA i half expect you to be able to summon tibbers... i mean the bear and it will have a massive aoe stun when you summon it. The whole CC aspect in this type of game is stupid. 

 

On 3/21/2017 at 11:33 AM, Crows said:

 

 

This video actually explains a lot to the community and i appreciate you showing everyone. Ok guys the lesson here is in a multiplayer game take someone with you or get raptored up. If you cant take anyone with you maybe stick to Single player and change the files and take them out.

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3 minutes ago, SlipperySquid said:

 

This video actually explains a lot to the community and i appreciate you showing everyone. Ok guys the lesson here is in a multiplayer game take someone with you or get raptored up. If you cant take anyone with you maybe stick to Single player and change the files and take them out.

You don't get messed up by Eels. The entire reason Eels are problematic is because they are bugged a thousand and one ways to Sunday. 

 

I'm all for difficulty in Survival sims, but people who think Eels are good, in any capacity, need to take some time and google "Artificial Difficulty". The difficulty provided by Eels is not fun, engaging or even fair. The difficulty provided by eels is an abomination to balancing and does not create a positive experience for anyone involved. There is nothing entertaining about "Oh six eels came out of a rock, because apparently they can defy the laws of physics and phase through solid objects, and 45 seconds later my level 300 mosa died to them". There is some entertainment value in dying to an alpha mosa and an alpha squid because the squid picked you up and everything ate you. There is something you can do to avoid that, there's nothing you can do to avoid dying to Eels in a number of situations. 

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3 hours ago, iAmE said:

You don't get messed up by Eels. The entire reason Eels are problematic is because they are bugged a thousand and one ways to Sunday. 

 

I'm all for difficulty in Survival sims, but people who think Eels are good, in any capacity, need to take some time and google "Artificial Difficulty". The difficulty provided by Eels is not fun, engaging or even fair. The difficulty provided by eels is an abomination to balancing and does not create a positive experience for anyone involved. There is nothing entertaining about "Oh six eels came out of a rock, because apparently they can defy the laws of physics and phase through solid objects, and 45 seconds later my level 300 mosa died to them". There is some entertainment value in dying to an alpha mosa and an alpha squid because the squid picked you up and everything ate you. There is something you can do to avoid that, there's nothing you can do to avoid dying to Eels in a number of situations. 

A term to describe games that have enemies that are too powerful to be killed even through intelligent gameplay and the player must resort to cheap tactics and exploits because the enemy cannot be killed in a straight up fight due their health and damage surpassing the player's. The difference between artificial difficulty and real difficulty is that real difficulty can be overcome through intelligent gameplay such as planning out how you will attack a group so you will not take any damage, being patient, and being cautious. Real difficulty is achieved through enemies that have intelligent abilities that the player must learn and learn to avoid while artificial difficulty is achieved simply by raising the enemies' damage and health.

 

Interesting read going in a group you will be able to defeat the Eels. If you go solo get caught and get raptored up you cant blame the game. I spend 85% of my time in the water not 1ce have i been caught and stunned to death via the eels. When i mean 85% i have farmed over 4000 megladon teeth for our boss fights. I never venture in to the caves alone because its a MULTIPLAYER GAME.

 

 

You playing solo does not make the difficulty of it impossible to defeat. now when the giga was first released even a group of 30 could not defeat with out cheese methods via knocking it out first.

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On 3/21/2017 at 11:01 AM, Melcreif said:

Our tribe leader took it upon himself to use a mindwipe to max out his Oxygen and Stamina. Worked surprisingly well when you can out-swim these suckers B|

Yeah, I always play with almost all points in oxygen because I've loved the waters of ark since the first month. I currently have 1420 oxygen, 200 sta, and I can just BARELY out pace the eels (without flippers). Even with flippers, the eastern underwater cave's narrow tunnels and curves in the first shallow part slow me down enough for the masses of eels to often catch me. However, if I can swim up onto the first dry spot before anything gets to me I can pretty easily pick off all the eels around the tiny "island" and be safe. 

I'd like to see the range of the stun effect reduced and make it so you can't be caught in a stun loop. Taming them has been a hoot though, lol.

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On 3/21/2017 at 9:37 PM, Volcano637 said:

I am personally glad they are doing it. Not saying anything bad about you or anybody but things have been made too easy for people. This is a "survival" game and it should be hard to get even half of what everyone has. 

Especially alphas, they have way too much stuff. It is no longer survival for them.

 

There is a HUGE difference between adding a challenging mechanic and a BROKEN mechanic, that serves no purpose, other than to frustrate people.

 

The whole Basilo meta BS is getting old. In reality, the basilo shouldn't even be able to compete with the Mosa, or the Squid, as they are THE largest sea creatures out there. It makes no sense at all that 2-4 tiny eels can stunlock a gigantic creature like those two and kill it, and their riders. There's just no logic in it whatsoever.

 

On the PC, unofficials have the choice to remove certain spawns, but on the Xbox One, you can't do that. You can't even affect the spawn rates at all. On officials, there's nothing you can do about it, period.

 

Do i even need to mention the Purlovia, that stuns you for 6 seconds, along with your mount? Encountering this creature on foot, is a death sentence, no matter how good your gear is, and they spawn just about anywhere, all over the map. On The Island, on the Xbox One, it even spawns on the newbie spawn areas. Just another broken mechanic that needs to be balanced.

 

Then of course, there's the massive overspawning issues in the ocean with mantas. If you're unlucky you might end up getting overspawning eels and jellyfish on top of that. Not sure how it's like on the PC as i haven't bothered going into the ocean in a long time there, but on the Xbox One, the ocean on both The Island and The Center are a joke. Everything is overspawning there.

 

When it comes to the Eels and jellyfish, i'm not saying the creatures needs to be removed, rather, it's the mechanics that comes with them, that needs tweaking and balancing. I just hope they do something about it, before release.

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They need to introduce the food chain mechanic to the ocean and the problem is solved. You see examples on this on land.

As is, nothing attacks anything until you tame it. Then everything wants to attack you. There's no reason why an angler fish should chase down a mosa on sight, or why a manta should chase down a tuso. It makes zero sense.

If WC is hellbent on keeping them the same, adjust what they aggro to. Dolphins, basils, manta's, sharks, anglers and most other land tames that are able to swim should be within its aggro table. Spino's, mosa's, tuso's, plesi's shouldn't. There's no way an eel looks at a giant squid and thinks to itself "I bet I can win this fight...".

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Eels should be slightly altered to only stun small to medium sized aquatic animals and large ground animals. 

for the plesi/mosa/squid it should just slow them down and reduce their attack speed. this way i feel they would be balanced

the basil should keep its stun negate as it is. 

but this doesnt solve the biggest problem with the eels being that they spawn in solid objects making you unable to prepare for them.

if they fix that and implement what i said above i feel the Eel would be where its supposed to be, an annoying little thing until you get the big boys of the sea

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14 hours ago, SlipperySquid said:

A term to describe games that have enemies that are too powerful to be killed even through intelligent gameplay and the player must resort to cheap tactics and exploits because the enemy cannot be killed in a straight up fight due their health and damage surpassing the player's. The difference between artificial difficulty and real difficulty is that real difficulty can be overcome through intelligent gameplay such as planning out how you will attack a group so you will not take any damage, being patient, and being cautious. Real difficulty is achieved through enemies that have intelligent abilities that the player must learn and learn to avoid while artificial difficulty is achieved simply by raising the enemies' damage and health.

 

Interesting read going in a group you will be able to defeat the Eels. If you go solo get caught and get raptored up you cant blame the game. I spend 85% of my time in the water not 1ce have i been caught and stunned to death via the eels. When i mean 85% i have farmed over 4000 megladon teeth for our boss fights. I never venture in to the caves alone because its a MULTIPLAYER GAME.

 

 

You playing solo does not make the difficulty of it impossible to defeat. now when the giga was first released even a group of 30 could not defeat with out cheese methods via knocking it out first.

4,000 teeth?

Ok, first for some context. I live underwater. It's what I do. I have five thousand hours in ark (Which means I may have actually played two or three thousand and afk'd the rest at the title screen), but the vast majority (At least 90% of the time) has been spent. In the water. I live there. I have lived there my Ark game time, with the exception of farming in air. 

 

Now that I've explained the context, let's go through reality:

Caves are not the only places Eels are glitchy, and neither "OH LOL IT'S MULTIPLAYER L2P" a good excuse for the buggy nature, and bad design of the eel. I haven't lost anything to Eels either, but I've had a couple close calls, and no, I don't go solo caves anymore either (Though I was able to easily do so with any of my high level squid or mosa's before Eels). None of this stops me from acknowledging the bad design inherent in the creature. 

Now, as to why it's bad design?

 

That's simple.

1: It's buggy. Just all over. It's hitboxes are awful, meaning it can phase into and out of dinos and well, geometry.

2: The dismount mechanic isn't preventable in a number of cases solely for the above reason. Can't play around it. Pretty classical artificial difficulty.

3: Stun mechanic is a cheap way to not have to address Torpor on Dino's

4: It's not fun. You should, in a general sense, never put a player in a situation where they feel "Helpless", it's a core tennet of game design. Eels do that. For all of the reasons above.

5: Guess what. The game isn't actually Multiplayer. It has this Single Player Button too. So, even though you think Solo players aren't worth considering, that little facet might be something you should look into.

6: It reduces the number of viable tames for clearing the cave, to Basil. The slowest, and worst, experience of any of the water dinos added to date. 

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