zxminecraftzx

Giga's are too OP

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I think that gigas are WAY to OP. I understand that they are supposed to be powerful, but it's a little irritating when something kills a creature with 20,000 health in 4 bites. I actually lost about three hours of work losing a Paraceratherium and an ankylo.

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If I had my way....   I'd have the Giga a rare encounter and un-tamable - and rightfully scary!   (the difference between the wild and tame is huge and I get it from a PvP point)

Also if I had my way, I'd make the scariest toughest flying predator (yet to see one) and one terrifying water predator that was un-tamable and both equally rare to encounter(squid probably)

If the toughest scariest creatures are untamable, it would make for a better "survival" game experience where even your best dinos at end game still need to navigate with caution.

-- probably won't happen though!

 

So no I don't think a wild Giga is overpowered...I think we lack more overpowered wild dinos.

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For fighting Wild Gigas, I generally just think they shouldn't restore 22,000 HP every time they kill something. 

Noticed even a bloodied giga hacked down to near-dead bloody can restore itself to almost full just by eating a couple dodos. Tested this with almost drowned-to-death gigas (went from 4,010 HP to 26,010 HP after eating one dino with the magnifying glass). Yeah, I'm fine with their behemoth gate destroying power. I'm fine with their massive HP pool that requires the best of your best to make a dent in it. I am fine with it being able to overpower and kill even your own Gigas at just Level 5.

What I ain't okay with is how it can shrug off massive amounts of damage simply by eating a Dimorphodon or Dodo that happens to catch its attention while you and your tribe a regrouping to fight it.

At least with fighting Titans, the damage you inflicted isn't just swept away after each kill it gets.

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Giganotosaurus is indeed too strong and quite over-centralizing in both PvE and PvP due to it's absurd stats(Of course, not Oxygen or Stamina) and crazy speed.

They need an adjustment, as pretty much every single dino in the game does, but the fix for Gigas is kinda difficult. The easiest adjustment would likely be reducing their speed, but then after that everything becomes 'This would make it underpowered' or 'This makes it so it doesn't do it's job effectively'. 

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6 hours ago, FaneBlackwing said:

crazy speed

wut?  Gigas are horrendously slow compared to other tames (Yes,  you'll outrun small dinos for a short time as well as any herbivore.).  Rexs can easily outrun a giga and continue to sprint 10x longer.  Wild gigas are obscenely strong (and they should be), but tamed gigas are obscenely neutered.  I think perhaps taking 1/4th of the current wild giga's base stats down would be a good balance, then subtract 1/4 of that for the tames.  It makes 0 sense that a perfectly bred fully imprinted giga cannot take down a wild giga that is level 1.

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20 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

wut?  Gigas are horrendously slow compared to other tames (Yes,  you'll outrun small dinos for a short time as well as any herbivore.).  Rexs can easily outrun a giga and continue to sprint 10x longer.  Wild gigas are obscenely strong (and they should be), but tamed gigas are obscenely neutered.  I think perhaps taking 1/4th of the current wild giga's base stats down would be a good balance, then subtract 1/4 of that for the tames.  It makes 0 sense that a perfectly bred fully imprinted giga cannot take down a wild giga that is level 1.

They really aren't, their base speed(I'm not talking sprint speed, their normal walking speed.) is really fast. Especially for a behemoth such as the Giga. Most of the largest tames in Ark are usually slow compared to the smaller creatures(Titanosaur, Bronto, Quetzal, Tusoteuthis, etc...) but the Giga breaks that trend by a long shot. Of course a Giga can't outrun a sprinting Rex, it's stamina is almost non-existant, but nobody sprints with it because it's really fast on it's own and people would rather save that stamina for attacks.

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The point is,  an excellent rex will easily do more damage, run faster, run longer, and tank more than a perfect giga.  Tamed gigas are extremely wasteful, IMO, except for base defenses or structure tackling.  If your target's base is metal, though, I feel they're better left at home.  700% melee rexes are not that hard to achieve, and that's equivalent to ~120% melee giga (which isn't exactly easy to get).  In regards to being targeted by a player on the dino,  which would you rather have.  A dino that walks fast but can't run for crap that'll 1shot you,  or a dino that will easily outrun you and can run for days that will 1shot you?

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1 minute ago, OtterlyRidiculous said:

why is this being brought up again gigas are evil tame it or kill it thats about the most you can do

I agree.  The point I was trying to make is that there's too much of a difference between a wild and a tame.  A tamed giga should be capable of killing a wild giga that is significantly lower level.

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13 minutes ago, banggugyangu said:

I agree.  The point I was trying to make is that there's too much of a difference between a wild and a tame.  A tamed giga should be capable of killing a wild giga that is significantly lower level.

they will never make gigas good again because it would become the new meta for pvp what they need to do is make it non tameable in world boss that has a super rare spawn

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7 hours ago, Mendoza said:

If I had my way....   I'd have the Giga a rare encounter and un-tamable - and rightfully scary!   (the difference between the wild and tame is huge and I get it from a PvP point)

Also if I had my way, I'd make the scariest toughest flying predator (yet to see one) and one terrifying water predator that was un-tamable and both equally rare to encounter(squid probably)

If the toughest scariest creatures are untamable, it would make for a better "survival" game experience where even your best dinos at end game still need to navigate with caution.

-- probably won't happen though!

 

So no I don't think a wild Giga is overpowered...I think we lack more overpowered wild dinos.

This is the role that Alphas are supposed to fill, and they do a decent job of the task. You do eventually overcome them, but that's the nature of open world survival games. We do still need a Alpha aerial predator.

The giga is just in a weird/bad spot...

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7 minutes ago, Darinth said:

This is the role that Alphas are supposed to fill, and they do a decent job of the task. You do eventually overcome them, but that's the nature of open world survival games. We do still need a Alpha aerial predator.

The giga is just in a weird/bad spot...

Soooo...   anyone interested in an alpha giga then?  :)

 

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Just now, Mendoza said:

Soooo...   anyone interested in an alpha giga then?  :)

It's not at all what you intended... but I mentioned needing an Alpha aerial predator and you promptly mentioned Alpha Giga and I'm now picturing a glowing giga flying through the air like superman.

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1 hour ago, OtterlyRidiculous said:

they will never make gigas good again because it would become the new meta for pvp what they need to do is make it non tameable in world boss that has a super rare spawn

It's very simple to counter a tamed giga being powerful.... decrease damage required to rage and increase rage duration.

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1 hour ago, banggugyangu said:

an excellent rex will easily do more damage

No it won't, not by a long shot.

1 hour ago, banggugyangu said:

700% melee rexes are not that hard to achieve

Man I want to play on your server if that's the norm there. Rexes are easy to find, but for me a good melee Rex is incredibly hard to find. And it's generally a bad idea to just pump nothing but melee because the Rex just gets so much more when you invest in health, and because you just end up with a very squishy Rex.

1 hour ago, banggugyangu said:

120% melee giga (which isn't exactly easy to get)

Not easy? Even without any training that's 20 wild levels in melee. A mediocre Giga could easily wake up with that.

48 minutes ago, Mendoza said:

Soooo...   anyone interested in an alpha giga then?  :)

I'd be ok with that, as long as the base Giga is brought down with everything else. That would make a lot more sense then where the Giga currently stands.

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2 minutes ago, Lockjaw said:

No it won't, not by a long shot.

Man I want to play on your server if that's the norm there. Rexes are easy to find, but for me a good melee Rex is incredibly hard to find. And it's generally a bad idea to just pump nothing but melee because the Rex just gets so much more when you invest in health, and because you just end up with a very squishy Rex.

Not easy? Even without any training that's 20 wild levels in melee. A mediocre Giga could easily wake up with that.

I'd be ok with that, as long as the base Giga is brought down with everything else. That would make a lot more sense then where the Giga currently stands.

/sigh.... you clearly don't do any breeding.  2 rexes at 150.  One with heavy melee levels, one with heavy HP levels.  Breed them.  Imprint the baby to 100%.  You instantly have a rex that is starting out around 500% melee damage and ~13k health.  Choose what you want to upgrade from there.  (Typically it's suggested around 30k health, and the rest melee.)  Keep in mind that levels are 20% more potent with imprint, and when the rider is the imprinter, there's a massive damage increase.

Furthermore, when you tame a giga, it loses ~80% of its melee damage percentage.That means to attain 120% melee damage you need at least 200% before tame.  THIS IS RARE.  A 150 giga before tame usually tops out around ~225%.  After tame, you are treated to a wonderful .85% per level.  Your average medium level giga (what most people shoot for) is typically ~70% melee damage.  If you put NOTHING BUT MELEE in it,  you're looking at an ending melee percentage of ~124.4%.  Once again... equivalent to roughly 700% rex melee, which is DRASTICALLY easier to get.  Breeding a perfect imprint on a rex is SO MUCH easier than taming a giga....(that torpor drain is stupid).  

So once again...2 dinos that will 1shot you.... which is worse:  walks sorta fast but can't run for crap?  or runs very fast and can run for days?

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6 hours ago, banggugyangu said:

...

Yeah sorry but spending days setting an alarm and getting a perfect imprint on a Rex, after spending who knows how long finding and taming those two perfect parents, is not easier than just taming a Giga. If that's the basis of your argument then we'll need to just stop here because we're not going to agree.

And finding a dinosaur with over 200% melee in the wild might be rare, but that doesn't include the bonus levels that come from taming. A perfect tamed 150 will wake up at lvl 224, which means that on average it will have around 32 levels in melee. If your Giga wakes up at 70% melee it means that it only has 10 levels in melee, which clearly on the low side.

If, though, you are that type of person who has no trouble getting a perfect imprint then you should probably be breeding those low level Gigas of yours. The benefit that Gigas get from imprinting is massive.

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9 hours ago, Darinth said:

It's not at all what you intended... but I mentioned needing an Alpha aerial predator and you promptly mentioned Alpha Giga and I'm now picturing a glowing giga flying through the air like superman.

It was late and sarcasm got the better of me!   sorry,  :)          In all honesty , I'd be very happy to get rid of all alpha dinos and their stupid glowing effects and opt for certain species that are powerful, aggressive and just cannot be tamed period. The giga would fit that roll perfectly, but people love their gigas, so just imagine a new dino just as fearsome as the giga and multiply it by 6  (oops sarcasm again - funny movie) 

The large flying predator out of the Sci-Fi movie (Avatar) would be brilliant !  - excluding copyright.  -- flying super glow giga - ahhhh no thanks!

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36 minutes ago, Mendoza said:

It was late and sarcasm got the better of me!   sorry,  :)          In all honesty , I'd be very happy to get rid of all alpha dinos and their stupid glowing effects and opt for certain species that are powerful, aggressive and just cannot be tamed period. The giga would fit that roll perfectly, but people love their gigas, so just imagine a new dino just as fearsome as the giga and multiply it by 6  (oops sarcasm again - funny movie) 

The large flying predator out of the Sci-Fi movie (Avatar) would be brilliant !  - excluding copyright.  -- flying super glow giga - ahhhh no thanks!

I'm okay either way, which makes me feel like it'd be a wasted change. Alphas work as they are, it's a simple effective method of adding a variety of overpowered variants to creatures and make them visible enough that they're difficult to accidentally run into. It still happens, I've ran into an Alpha raptor in dense forest back when they were still scary. I attacked a nearby anky which swung at me and hit the raptor and gave me the time to GTFO. Honestly, I feel like they should make Alpha variants of every aggressive creature, and a few that aren't generally aggressive that become aggressive in their Alpha variants. I've got no issue with Alpha variants on every aerial creature, they're all carnivorous to at least some degree. They'd have to fix their AI so that their attacks aren't completely idiotic though.

I don't know what the raptor to do about gigas. My basic instinct says to just remove them. They don't serve any purpose and I can't see any purpose that they could server. They're just a bigger meaner rex... we already have rexes to be top-dog.

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Posted (edited)

On 3/19/2017 at 2:40 PM, zxminecraftzx said:

I think that gigas are WAY to OP. I understand that they are supposed to be powerful, but it's a little irritating when something kills a creature with 20,000 health in 4 bites. I actually lost about three hours of work losing a Paraceratherium and an ankylo.

I`m right there with ya. I also don`t really like their size either. I have made a suggestion for this problem before. I honestly think the following is the best way to fix it:

On 8/28/2016 at 7:27 PM, Shrekasaurus said:

When I think of the three top predators of Ark. I think of the Giga, Spino and the Rex. The Spino for versatility and speed, the Giga for health and the Rex for power. Thats why I want the Giga's stats to be comparable to the stats of a Rex or Spino and not so much more astronomically large in size. I think they should make it so the Giga has more health, the Spino more speed and the Rex have the power. This would allow for better battles to occur instead of Giga's eating everything. There should be a trifecta of top carnivores not Giga eats everything. To me that's lost potential. Of course in this case the stats of these creatures would be balanced and none would be overpowered if you know what I mean. I think I've seen a topic like this one before, but why not have it again. They could take the rage mechanic away. 

Edited by Shrekasaurus
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Posted (edited)

Lock jaw. You are comparing the best bred rexs to the worst gigas. Any tribe messing with 13k 450 rexs isn't messing about with 100 melee gigas. To be fair out of a dozen or so gigas I've tamed only one stood up with less than 120 melee. That was my first level 34. Now most of my gigas are pushing 500 melee. Imprinted they have 120 movement speed which makes them incredibly fast. They don't have much stam but don't need it. You can bite non stop for an hour with stam drained and won't get knocked out. Their really is no comparison between Rex and giga.

Edited by Maxalpha
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29 minutes ago, Maxalpha said:

Lock jaw. You are comparing the best bred rexs to the worst gigas. Any tribe messing with 13k 450 rexs isn't messing about with 100 melee gigas. To be fair out of a dozen or so gigas I've tamed only one stood up with less than 120 melee. That was my first level 34. Now most of my gigas are pushing 500 melee. Imprinted they have 120 movement speed which makes them incredibly fast. They don't have much stam but don't need it. You can bite non stop for an hour with stam drained and won't get knocked out. Their really is no comparison between Rex and giga.

Haha I must not have expressed myself very well, but yes I completely agree with you. It was the person I was talking to who was trying to compare the best bred Rexes to the worst Gigas. I was simply going along with the numbers that he put out there for comparison.

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Maxalpha said:

Lock jaw. You are comparing the best bred rexs to the worst gigas. Any tribe messing with 13k 450 rexs isn't messing about with 100 melee gigas. To be fair out of a dozen or so gigas I've tamed only one stood up with less than 120 melee. That was my first level 34. Now most of my gigas are pushing 500 melee. Imprinted they have 120 movement speed which makes them incredibly fast. They don't have much stam but don't need it. You can bite non stop for an hour with stam drained and won't get knocked out. Their really is no comparison between Rex and giga.

Out of ~10 gigas I've tamed 150 >> 224, only 2 have stood up with MORE than 120% melee damage.  There's also value in true mobility.  Being able to outmaneuver your attacker will give you an edge.  When you're doing close to the same damage, one attacks and moves faster and has ~10k more health, there's an obvious power difference, and that's NOT in the side of the giga.  Tamed gigas would be fine as-is, if their levels were worth anything after tame, but they're not.  Health goes up by miniscule amounts. Stamina is puny from start to finish, melee damage levels so slowly that if you don't tame 100%+, the giga is worthless, and movement speed.... well the only way to actually get a fast giga is 100% imprint a baby (and there's a week of solid work for you.).  On the contrary, 3 days of checking a hatchling every 3 hours will render a rex that can (at least eventually) take on pretty much any tamed giga on the server, except maybe a 100% imprinted baby.  Best rex I've hatched came out with 19813 health and 599 melee before imprint with about 175% movement speed.  After imprint and fully leveling, the final stats were Health:  30195,  Melee Damage:  1439.78, and movement speed:  210.  Dealing 892 damage per bite, having 10k more health than a tamed giga, and being able to run laps around it.  (This was also only 2 generations of breeding.  Health parent + melee damage parent + 2nd generation w/ movement speed. [easily the hardest to get because of the fact that wild dinos gain no movement speed, so only taming effectiveness levels count.])  I stand by my statement that the rex is far more powerful than the giga.

 

*edit* This also doesn't take into consideration if someone wants to spend the substantial amount of time involved getting stat mutations, which further the potential of the rex above the giga.  (Once again.. Giga stat growth is just too pathetic after tames)

Edited by banggugyangu
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