Opinions on best dino to go against the tek bosses?

[Killhorde]

I was just trying to figure out if therasaurus or big bird or spaghetti fingers whatever you want to call them lol was the best against them?

[PuffyPony]

They're alright in combat, though I'm not entirely sure against a boss. They don't have quite as much HP as a Rex, but they have the advantage of Sweet Veggie Cakes. Their base damage is lower, but I'm fairly certain saying they have higher overall DPS because of their attack rate. Don't quote me here, but you might be able to find a high-tier Theri saddle in the underwater caverns. That's really the biggest factor in determining who you bring to the boss, but a pack of 60+ Armor, 220+ imprinted Therizinos with Sweet Veggie Cakes might do pretty well tbh

[Jostabeere]

They have less health and damage than a Rex.

[Velarius]

Damage being less is negligible than a rex, overall they do a lot more damage than a rex because of attack speed. You can breed them up to have comparible health, so they would be superior to a rex by far if you could find a good saddle for em. 

[Jostabeere]

9 minutes ago, Velarius said:

Damage being less is negligible than a rex, overall they do a lot more damage than a rex because of attack speed. You can breed them up to have comparible health, so they would be superior to a rex by far if you could find a good saddle for em. 

That is pretty wrong in every regard.

Therizinos do no do more damage. They do less damage than a Rex in every way. They have less base damage, and less DPS. Even the slightly better attack speed does not help them reach a Rex's DPS.

I tested with a level 1 Rex and a level 1 Therizino on the Trainings Dummy.

The Rex had a base hit of ~900 and the Therizino had a base hit of ~750.

Rex's DPS was 1,081 and Therizino only was able to get a DPS of 1,058.

And if you breed Therizinos to have comparable health to non-bred Rex's, a bred Rex will outclass it again.

There is no way a Therizino can be superior to a Rex by stats and the only advantage it has outside of farming are the cakes.

[Harrist14]

3 hours ago, PuffyPony said:

They're alright in combat, though I'm not entirely sure against a boss. They don't have quite as much HP as a Rex, but they have the advantage of Sweet Veggie Cakes. Their base damage is lower, but I'm fairly certain saying they have higher overall DPS because of their attack rate. Don't quote me here, but you might be able to find a high-tier Theri saddle in the underwater caverns. That's really the biggest factor in determining who you bring to the boss, but a pack of 60+ Armor, 220+ imprinted Therizinos with Sweet Veggie Cakes might do pretty well tbh

I have a MC BP, so yes you can get higher armor saddles

[Velarius]

2 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

That is pretty wrong in every regard.

Therizinos do no do more damage. They do less damage than a Rex in every way. They have less base damage, and less DPS. Even the slightly better attack speed does not help them reach a Rex's DPS.

I tested with a level 1 Rex and a level 1 Therizino on the Trainings Dummy.

The Rex had a base hit of ~900 and the Therizino had a base hit of ~750.

Rex's DPS was 1,081 and Therizino only was able to get a DPS of 1,058.

And if you breed Therizinos to have comparable health to non-bred Rex's, a bred Rex will outclass it again.

There is no way a Therizino can be superior to a Rex by stats and the only advantage it has outside of farming are the cakes.

Either your test was flawed due to player error or you just have clue what you are talking about. My wife and I breed these things regularly so I know for a fact you are full of crap. I've even gone so far as to use them to wreck people's rex's on pvp of similar lvl. The only way you got a 1 and 1 of each anyway was doing your own server anyway, no factor for lvl scaling etc. Nice try, like I said I breed them near daily on officials. Only problem being is I've never seen a saddle of color on ps4 servers, being a new dino I don't think the upgraded saddles have been introduced yet.

[Harrist14]

17 minutes ago, Velarius said:

Either your test was flawed due to player error or you just have clue what you are talking about. My wife and I breed these things regularly so I know for a fact you are full of crap. I've even gone so far as to use them to wreck people's rex's on pvp of similar lvl. The only way you got a 1 and 1 of each anyway was doing your own server anyway, no factor for lvl scaling etc. Nice try, like I said I breed them near daily on officials. Only problem being is I've never seen a saddle of color on ps4 servers, being a new dino I don't think the upgraded saddles have been introduced yet.

As I said before you commented, I have a MC BP. They exist

[PuffyPony]

28 minutes ago, Harrist14 said:

As I said before you commented, I have a MC BP. They exist

I was fairly sure they existed in the water caves. A MC saddle with cakes is probably pretty beastly, since you can get some respectable HP on a Theri. With the saddle and cakes, the Theri probably could out-tank a Rex of similar level. I'll try it out on a test world later and let you know what I find

[Glydyr]

3 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

That is pretty wrong in every regard.

Therizinos do no do more damage. They do less damage than a Rex in every way. They have less base damage, and less DPS. Even the slightly better attack speed does not help them reach a Rex's DPS.

I tested with a level 1 Rex and a level 1 Therizino on the Trainings Dummy.

The Rex had a base hit of ~900 and the Therizino had a base hit of ~750.

Rex's DPS was 1,081 and Therizino only was able to get a DPS of 1,058.

And if you breed Therizinos to have comparable health to non-bred Rex's, a bred Rex will outclass it again.

There is no way a Therizino can be superior to a Rex by stats and the only advantage it has outside of farming are the cakes.

Probably better to test a max level one of each. 

[Jostabeere]

36 minutes ago, Glydyr said:

Probably better to test a max level one of each. 

No. Since this is the easiest way to test both with the same amount of level-ups in damage.

Anything over 1 fakes the numbers since a max level Therizino can have 40 level-ups in damage, while the Rex only has 25. In such a case the Therizino would do more damage purely because of RNG.

And on top of that the Therizino has a smaller wild stat growth. 2.6 damage per level-up compared to 3.1 of a Rex.

So in conclusion: If the Therizino does not have a higher amount of damage by RNG level-ups than a Rex, he cannot outdamage a Rex.

[spacejam]

1 minute ago, Jostabeere said:

No. Since this is the easiest way to test both with the same amount of level-ups in damage.

Anything over 1 fakes the numbers since a max level Therizino can have 40 level-ups in damage, while the Rex only has 25. In such a case the Therizino would do more damage purely because of RNG.

And on top of that the Therizino has a smaller wild stat growth. 2.6 damage per level-up compared to 3.1 of a Rex.

So in conclusion: If the Therizino does not have a higher amount of damage by RNG level-ups than a Rex, he cannot outdamage a Rex.

while that is somewhat true to test actually base that isn't really ever going to relate back to real  world situations because we only ever tame dinops with rng levels  so it is very plausible that you get better duck bill idiots

[Jostabeere]

2 minutes ago, spacejam said:

while that is somewhat true to test actually base that isn't really ever going to relate back to real  world situations because we only ever tame dinops with rng levels  so it is very plausible that you get better duck bill idiots

That is true. However you can't just say they're better because someone had better RNG. And the question was what is better. Statistically, Rexes are better.

[spacejam]

1 minute ago, Jostabeere said:

That is true. However you can't just say they're better because someone had better RNG.

should spawn in 2 level ones and then max them both in damage and go head to head. the test dummy can be unreliable at times

[Jostabeere]

22 minutes ago, spacejam said:

should spawn in 2 level ones and then max them both in damage and go head to head. the test dummy can be unreliable at times

 

[PuffyPony]

So, I tried out 20 Theri and 20 Rex against the Megapithecus. For reference, I am running this test on SP with slightly boosted stats. For the Theri, I boosted Hp to 45k and Melee to 1000%. For the Rex, I boosted Hp to 50k and Melee to 1000%. I spawned saddles with armor of 25.0, ~50.0, and ~80.0 for all groups. I also gave meat to each Rex, and I gave berries and Sweet Veggie Cakes to each Theri. I completely healed each dino after each trial, and no tames died during any of the fights.

Trial 1: 25 Armor saddle. Each Rex took about 4k damage (on average). The damage to each Theri appeared to be about the same, on average.
Trial 2: 50 Armor saddle. Again, each group took about the same amount of damage (in the ballpark of 3k damage)
Trial 3: 80 Armor saddle. Same result, again.

So, based on the trial runs I did (I know I only gave a summary, but it's enough to get the idea across), I'd argue that the Theri is on par with the Rex. HOWEVER!! I'd say that the trials I ran were also an oversimplification. In an Official or player-dedi, the bosses will be stronger and deal more damage. The consequence is that, given both dinos take about the same amount of damage, the Theri will ultimately prove the better option IF you are able to A) breed out high-level, imprinted Theri (which takes longer than the Rex), B) find a good saddle, and C) invest in Sweet Veggie Cakes. This conclusion comes from the fact that, once the Theri hits 85% HP, it will immediately begin to heal for 2100 HP, or 70 HP per second for 30 seconds. By comparison, Rex can heal 40-50 HP/s if you're spamming meat (though it can be done more quickly with an auto-clicker, consoles do not have this option, so I'm excluding it), so the Theri automatically wins in that department. Obviously, the Theri has less HP overall, but even in my test, each Theri only needs to eat 2 cakes to roughly account for the difference.They can also do so autonomously, unlike the Rex which can only eat as it becomes hungry, and especially with high-tier saddles where they're going to be receiving less DPS, that difference becomes even more exaggerated because the Theri takes less damage to counteract the healing of the Sweet Veggie Cake.

My overall conclusion: either one works. In a PvE situation, I'd say that the Theri is competitive with the Rex. It's got lower HP but can heal more efficiently, and its DPS is about the same as a Rex, especially once you move into RNG giving variable levels to stats. Theri are also easier to find, and with a taming pen and decent amount of narcotic, not terribly hard to tame either (and they lose comparatively fewer levels than other herbivores). In a PvP situation, though, the Theri will kick the crap out of a Rex... but that's a different conversation

[iAmE]

9 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

That is pretty wrong in every regard.

Therizinos do no do more damage. They do less damage than a Rex in every way. They have less base damage, and less DPS. Even the slightly better attack speed does not help them reach a Rex's DPS.

I tested with a level 1 Rex and a level 1 Therizino on the Trainings Dummy.

The Rex had a base hit of ~900 and the Therizino had a base hit of ~750.

Rex's DPS was 1,081 and Therizino only was able to get a DPS of 1,058.

And if you breed Therizinos to have comparable health to non-bred Rex's, a bred Rex will outclass it again.

There is no way a Therizino can be superior to a Rex by stats and the only advantage it has outside of farming are the cakes.

You know that the target dummy is well documented as being completely incorrect right? Just a point here, Training Dummy can't be used as an accurate comparison for DPS cross species. At all. Just testing it, my 350% melee Giga does less damage then my 542% Ptera does Barrel Rolling, per hit. 

 

Therizino does marginally more damage, however, it has less health, and low carry weight (Which is relevant discussing it's ability to use Veggie Cakes). They are also vastly harder to not only find, but to tame and breed.

 

Rexes will, with equal effort, always be better then Therizino in practice, but on paper, equal Therizino and equal Rex, assuming the Therizino has Veggie Cakes, will do better then the Rex. I would need to measure the exact attack speed of both dino's to give you an exact number, but cursory testing killing low level "Dummy" Dinos, gives the Therizino a rough, 5-10% dps advantage on the rex.

[LilNastyGurl]

10 hours ago, Velarius said:

Either your test was flawed due to player error or you just have clue what you are talking about. My wife and I breed these things regularly so I know for a fact you are full of crap. I've even gone so far as to use them to wreck people's rex's on pvp of similar lvl. The only way you got a 1 and 1 of each anyway was doing your own server anyway, no factor for lvl scaling etc. Nice try, like I said I breed them near daily on officials. Only problem being is I've never seen a saddle of color on ps4 servers, being a new dino I don't think the upgraded saddles have been introduced yet.

Can we see video of your Therizinos in action? It would put the Theri vs Rex vs Boss argument to rest, and since you're on Official that would be good.

[FaneBlackwing]

Therizinos aren't better than Rexes in regards to DPS, but they certainly aren't totally outclassed and can prove to be better fighters, especially with Veggie Cakes.

It really boils down to if you'd rather have lower DPS with healing, or better DPS with no healing, and the DPS difference isn't too massive either, sometimes a Therizino can out DPS a Rex even though a Rex usually wins.

So technically, I'd put my money on the Therizino, only if you've got it stocked with Veggie Cakes, if not, then a Rex is better.

[SwishPapaSweets]

Never trust the test dummy its based on thatch and doesn't record well. 

Well thery had a base 75 melee but according to wiki its 52 now so the rex at 60 does more

[Harrist14]

6 hours ago, iAmE said:

You know that the target dummy is well documented as being completely incorrect right? Just a point here, Training Dummy can't be used as an accurate comparison for DPS cross species. At all. Just testing it, my 350% melee Giga does less damage then my 542% Ptera does Barrel Rolling, per hit. 

 

Therizino does marginally more damage, however, it has less health, and low carry weight (Which is relevant discussing it's ability to use Veggie Cakes). They are also vastly harder to not only find, but to tame and breed.

 

Rexes will, with equal effort, always be better then Therizino in practice, but on paper, equal Therizino and equal Rex, assuming the Therizino has Veggie Cakes, will do better then the Rex. I would need to measure the exact attack speed of both dino's to give you an exact number, but cursory testing killing low level "Dummy" Dinos, gives the Therizino a rough, 5-10% dps advantage on the rex.

Yeah, I have rexes that supposedly hit more than my giga (which with a 300% giga means the rexes would need to be at 2000% melee, lol. Obviously they aren't.) Training dummy is super broken, it would be nice to have it actually work

[Dracul]

Even if there was a dps difference id prefer a theri over a rex, saddles are in the same loot pool for me , theri is more compact faster and turns way better while having veggie cake is a pretty good balancer on its lower health pool. That being said, its much easier to tame large numbers of rex though honestly if someone is thinking of doing boss content I doubt they will be worried about the 'easy' route.

[Jostabeere]

Even if you don't believe in the test dummy, you can do the math itself to calculate the damage. Therizino does less base damage and has less DPS. With dummy or without.

@iAmE You can't compare two different damage types with different thatch multipliers. Rex and Therizino have the same multiplier on Thatch. It doesn't matter if you hit a thatch thing or a wood thing or a living thing. Their attacks will always show the same. Therizino will always do less damage than a Rex.

@PuffyPony You see that during your testing Theris were only en par with Rexes, even with cakes. You have to make cakes and gather ressources for that, just for them to be able to get on Rexes level.

Can you try to do the bosses without meat or Cakes and tell the results?

@Valerius It's interesting to sdee that I'm full of crap while I actually got the best results you can have. Like I already mentioned, Therizinos can be better, if they have more level-ups in damage than a Rex. But on same level a Rex will be better. Period. If you want to argue, breed a Rex and breed a Theri with the exact same stats. Your testing is worthless if you do not have mathematically the same.

You cannot test 2 same cars for speed if you modified one. You canot test 2 runners for the same speed if you doped one. And so on. You are free to have your opinion. But it goes against mathematics.

And to the people with the Giga argument. We sadly do not know if Giga has a lower damage multiplier on Thatch. It all comes down to that on the dummy. But if you have the exact same multiplier, the calculation is correct. And Rex and Theri both have the same.

It is personal preference. And the Therizino has it's advantage. The Cake. But the Rex is better based on raw numbers without any mumbo-jumbo.

[Wazzamaniac]

I've heard that bosses always have one attack that can kill you straight off your mount, like venom spit, rock and fireball. In fact there's a thread dedicated to it I think. When fighting Brood, I notice that she spits really low down on the ground, at the rexes feet, and the Megapithecus's rock has a bounce to it.

Would the fact that the theri is lower down increase the risk of getting oneshot from it's back?

[PuffyPony]

@Jostabeere As I said, without cakes the Theri is roughly on par with the Rex based on what I saw. Each has more than sufficient HP to survive the boss, though the Rex does have more. With cakes, the Theri becomes the better option becomes this effectively gives it more HP and a passive regen that far exceeds anything the Rex can achieve without use of a macro. As far as I could tell in my tests, none of the Theris actually ate a Sweet Veggie Cake except maybe one or two that had taken multiple hits from the rock attack.

To reiterate my earlier conclusion, both the Theri and the Rex require that you get high-level, imprinted babies with good saddles. Breeding takes slightly longer for the Theri, but they also eat berries and are therefore easier to provide for. Also, with a Basilosaurus, farming Theri saddles isn't too hard because you can just swim around the west water cavern to loot one, as opposed to trying to loot a Rex saddle from a red beacon or one of the more-difficult caves. So, up to this point, I'd say that the Theri is on par with the Rex. Where it wins, though, is the investment of Sweet Veggie Cakes, since these provide a pretty significant degree of healing.

Some other things to consider. The Theri turns better and is less likely to get stuck on random terrain than the Rex since it is smaller. This also (in theory) means more of your twenty can simultaneously pile up on the boss, since they don't crowd each other, but I can't really say that I noticed if that was the case.