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Metal vs Tek Tier... weak point


Cucharon

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Tek Tier Structures are extremly weak against tek rifles

I have been testing Tek Tier. Great resistance against explosives but... EXTREMLY WEAK AGAINST TEK RIFLE.

With only 120% (1.2 elements) you can destroy a tek wall!!!!!!

 

With this weak point I wonder if it is better to have a metal wall... At least in order to destroy a metall wall first you need to suffer autoturrets or spend a lot of elements.

 

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Unless you're building in a cave, Metal is superior to Tek structures. The Shield Generator is "Decent" if you can have a good "Hardpoint", and the Tek Doors provide decent utility (No one is going to do a boss run in a raid to blow doors). 

 

However building structures out of the material is pretty bad. Though it might be better on Scorched Earth because Manticore is a lot harder then doing a 5m HDragon run on the Island. Tek Rafts and platform builds are also decently effective, as you aren't immobile and can easily dodge tek shots. 

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This really needed reevaluated at by the devs. Tek buildings shouldn't be a massive double edged sword. No one is going to trust their base being made out of something so weak vs tek tier rifles. With server transfer raids and alpha vs alpha happening so often with server wipes a tribe would be severely weakening themselves against other alphas. Building metal around tek would work (in some very specific situations) but look so derpy as well as be clunky (look at scorched with its metal/adobe double plating). Tek buildings should be the end all structure for advanced tribes.

I really hope they tweak this and soon. In it's current state these fun and really awesome looking structures will only ever be used in pve.

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1 hour ago, Yig said:

This really needed reevaluated at by the devs. Tek buildings shouldn't be a massive double edged sword. No one is going to trust their base being made out of something so weak vs tek tier rifles. With server transfer raids and alpha vs alpha happening so often with server wipes a tribe would be severely weakening themselves against other alphas. Building metal around tek would work (in some very specific situations) but look so derpy as well as be clunky (look at scorched with its metal/adobe double plating). Tek buildings should be the end all structure for advanced tribes.

I really hope they tweak this and soon. In it's current state these fun and really awesome looking structures will only ever be used in pve.

Well, now my idea is make two layers, one of metal, anotherone of Tek Tier. But still I think it is extremly easy to destroy the wall. 1.2 elements... with 6 elements you can destroy 5 walls. Imagine how easy is to wipe an entire base when a medium boss gives you 90 elements. Just ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, Yig said:

This really needed reevaluated at by the devs. Tek buildings shouldn't be a massive double edged sword. No one is going to trust their base being made out of something so weak vs tek tier rifles. With server transfer raids and alpha vs alpha happening so often with server wipes a tribe would be severely weakening themselves against other alphas. Building metal around tek would work (in some very specific situations) but look so derpy as well as be clunky (look at scorched with its metal/adobe double plating). Tek buildings should be the end all structure for advanced tribes.

I really hope they tweak this and soon. In it's current state these fun and really awesome looking structures will only ever be used in pve.

Since you can't transfer element, any cross server raid, the raiders will have to bring enough dinos to do the boss to power their rifles.

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2 minutes ago, Darrien said:

Since you can't transfer element, any cross server raid, the raiders will have to bring enough dinos to do the boss to power their rifles.

If you want to raid a base (we are talking about a well defended base, with autoturrets, metal and tek tier), you need dinosaurs (obviously).

With 4 non-imprinted rexes you can kill medium manticore or broodmother in 5 minuts, obtain 90 elements.

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3 minutes ago, Cucharon said:

If you want to raid a base (we are talking about a well defended base, with autoturrets, metal and tek tier), you need dinosaurs (obviously).

With 4 non-imprinted rexes you can kill medium manticore or broodmother in 5 minuts, obtain 90 elements.

I wanna see that. People are struggling to kill the low one with 10 non imprinted Max Rexes and you kill Medium with 4?

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It's probably weak against tek rifles because you can only farm element on the server you're using it on. Most raids are server to server these days... any one that has Tek tier is probably alpha and prevents others from getting it on "their" server. You would have to sneak in your tames, kill a boss, power your rifle and THEN attack which makes it more balanced in favor of the defender. Who is most likely offline anyways.

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1 hour ago, Darrien said:

Well yes but this will stop quick raiders who will just transfer in a bunch of C4 or rockets. Since they would have to also get rid of a boss and most alphas have a turret box or base at each obelisk then again you don't need an obelisk to summon a boss either since they can be done with the drops.

The blocked transfer of Artifacts last I heard, so you would have to run every cave on the map that you needed to collect an artifact from to summon the boss before even getting to a drop/ob to summon it. 

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Why are we only comparing this to the the most advanced of all alphas? Not every alpha is going to be a mega tribe that has every single entry point to a server blocked. I'd just like to see metal structures phased out in the tek tier. The fact that a alpha would want to make his building tek on the outside to rule over their current servers peasants and then be forced to build their interior as metal to prevent the transferring alphas is just dumb. We don't need a building tier that uses two building types on the island. Can you imagine what its going to be like when scorched get tek buildings? You are going to have a outside tek wall with inside metal walls and then inside adobe walls. Bases will end up being mixed up Russian nesting dolls. Tek structures are the only structures that don't look rusty or scuffed up. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to see an entire base made out of sleek future tech without it being easily blasted down by a alpha who manages to sneak over, kill 1 boss, and then drill a hole thru their base with a single rifle?

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14 minutes ago, Rancor said:

It's probably weak against tek rifles because you can only farm element on the server you're using it on. Most raids are server to server these days... any one that has Tek tier is probably alpha and prevents others from getting it on "their" server. You would have to sneak in your tames, kill a boss, power your rifle and THEN attack which makes it more balanced in favor of the defender. Who is most likely offline anyways.

Or.. you can always transfer in tek structures, demolish, and get elements. ;)

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6 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

I wanna see that. People are struggling to kill the low one with 10 non imprinted Max Rexes and you kill Medium with 4?

Manticore and Broodmother are the easiest bosses out there, as they still get "Pinned". That being said, an alpha advanced enough to raid with Tek Tier isn't going to do brood. 5 people, guns and bullets along, with 1 person on a Therizino with sweet cakes can kill the hard dragon in about 10 minutes. That's much more likely then running Brood. Manticore is unavoidable, but yeah. 

 

The issue with bosses isn't that they're hard to do, it's that they're impossible to do without exploits. 

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20 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

You don't get element from demolishing a tek structure either though.

*You don't get Element from demolishing most tek structures.

 

If devs checked bug reports, perhaps they fixed it really recent;y, but as of the latest patch you can still demo specific structures for Element cross server. We did it on a raid about 72 hours ago. 

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7 hours ago, Yig said:

Why are we only comparing this to the the most advanced of all alphas? Not every alpha is going to be a mega tribe that has every single entry point to a server blocked. I'd just like to see metal structures phased out in the tek tier. The fact that a alpha would want to make his building tek on the outside to rule over their current servers peasants and then be forced to build their interior as metal to prevent the transferring alphas is just dumb. We don't need a building tier that uses two building types on the island. Can you imagine what its going to be like when scorched get tek buildings? You are going to have a outside tek wall with inside metal walls and then inside adobe walls. Bases will end up being mixed up Russian nesting dolls. Tek structures are the only structures that don't look rusty or scuffed up. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to see an entire base made out of sleek future tech without it being easily blasted down by a alpha who manages to sneak over, kill 1 boss, and then drill a hole thru their base with a single rifle?

No o don't think it would be nice. That's kind of what alphas get for being alphas. The last thing wildcard needed to do was make alphas stronger. The good thing is it will make megas and supers stronger. Pretty soon every server can finally be rid of all the alphas

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1 hour ago, Volcano637 said:

No o don't think it would be nice. That's kind of what alphas get for being alphas. The last thing wildcard needed to do was make alphas stronger. The good thing is it will make megas and supers stronger. Pretty soon every server can finally be rid of all the alphas

Hardly. You really think Mega's and Super's aren't Alpha's?

You basically said "I'm glad they didn't buff the Tiger (Alpha) in my house, the good thing is it makes the Lion (Super/Megas) in my house stronger. Pretty soon we'll only have Lion's in our house instead of Tigers.

 

Not that it matters. Whether it's a Lion or a Tiger, you're probably dead either way. 

 

 

The reality is that Defending a server from an invasion is, already, incredibly difficult, if not impossible without third party assistance (The current meta is DDoSing to defend a server on Official PvP Servers). Tek Tier needed to be effective to build in order to close that gap. Instead, it's almost worse then Stone in terms of relevant PvP.

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13 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Oh, and for those that are interested, look at this. It costs less Element to destroy an entire tek tier base (With absolutely no counterplay possible if this is done offline), then it takes to make a single Forcefield Generator. 

 

Not to nitpick but the video you posted actually points to the contrary of your statement. It took 20 element to breach the shield, and 52 element to "destroy an entire tek tier base". Factor in the cost of production for the rex saddle (since rexes don't exactly come birthed with tek saddles) and that brings the element cost to 92 element to destroy a tek base, as opposed to the 75 needed to erect a shield.

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1 minute ago, ciabattaroll said:

Not to nitpick but the video you posted actually points to the contrary of your statement. It took 20 element to breach the shield, and 52 element to "destroy an entire tek tier base"

One force field generator costs 75 Element, he used 72 total to blow through the Shield, and kill the base. 

It cost less to raid this base then it cost to build just one part of the defense. Let alone all the other stuff involved in actually building the base (The metal, Turret Bullets, Etc).

 

Nice try, but I don't see how my point is contrary. 

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Just now, iAmE said:

One force field generator costs 75 Element, he used 72 total to blow through the Shield, and kill the base. 

It cost less to raid this base then it cost to build just one part of the defense. Let alone all the other stuff involved in actually building the base (The metal, Turret Bullets, Etc).

 

Nice try, but I don't see how my point is contrary. 

As I had pointed out in my previous post, cost of manufacture of the saddle is to be factored in. Unless this t-rex magically grows a rex saddle on it's own then that's 112 element total used to blow through the shield and kill the base.

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7 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

As I had pointed out in my previous post, cost of manufacture of the saddle is to be factored in. Unless this t-rex magically grows a rex saddle on it's own then that's 112 element total used to blow through the shield and kill the base.

Nope, it doesn't "Grow" the Rex saddle, but neither did he lose or "Commit" the Rex Saddle (It's not like it's hard to "Safely" Raid with Tek gear, considering the range on it is far enough you can literally build a FoB around the rex and demo someone's base from complete safety.

 

At the same time, it's fair to say that it took "112 Element to completely destroy" the base. As we all know, you don't need to "Completely destroy" a base to "Raid" it. The base is almost completely breached at all levels with about 25-30 element shot. Even including the Rex Saddle as a cost (Which it still really isn't because, you know, you still have the saddle afterwards, unlike regular explosives) he still uses under 75 Element to "Raid" this Tek Tier base.

 

Considering that a Hard Dragon with 1 Therizino, about  100 Sweet cakes, around 30k Bullets and 5 people takes about 10 minutes and nets 300 Element, I don't see how this is contrary to my point that the Tek structures are abysmally weak and outclassed in actual PvP by metal structures. Not to mention Metal Structures cost a fraction of Tek structures. Metal is still the gating mechanic here, and he gains vastly more for his metal raiding that structure, then he "Used" Raiding it. 

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1 minute ago, iAmE said:

Nope, it doesn't "Grow" the Rex saddle, but neither did he lose or "Commit" the Rex Saddle (It's not like it's hard to "Safely" Raid with Tek gear, considering the range on it is far enough you can literally build a FoB around the rex and demo someone's base from complete safety.

 

At the same time, it's fair to say that it took "112 Element to completely destroy" the base. As we all know, you don't need to "Completely destroy" a base to "Raid" it. The base is almost completely breached at all levels with about 25-30 element shot. Even including the Rex Saddle as a cost (Which it still really isn't because, you know, you still have the saddle afterwards, unlike regular explosives) he still uses under 75 Element to "Raid" this Tek Tier base.

 

Considering that a Hard Dragon with 1 Therizino, about  100 Sweet cakes, around 30k Bullets and 5 people takes about 10 minutes and nets 300 Element, I don't see how this is contrary to my point that the Tek structures are abysmally weak and outclassed in actual PvP by metal structures. Not to mention Metal Structures cost a fraction of Tek structures. 

That's all fine and well, but none of what you've said supports your statement of "it costs less to level a tek base than it costs to make a shield" due to the costs used for the creation of the saddle. You make use of saying that you'd still have the saddle afterwards, which is true, but that doesn't mean you had the saddle BEFORE the situation. To add in a hypothetical circumstance like that doesn't help the argument as the opposing side could equally use an equally plausible hypothetical circumstance to support their argument. In essence, you have to look at both scenarios as having to have started from scratch.

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